Outrage of the Week


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Flyboy
February 13, 2005, 11:00 AM
http://www.theagitator.com/archives/018592.php

Thank the deity of your choice for recording equipment...and count the days until it's outlawed.

More information at http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_3527113,00.html.

Edit: reading for comprehension, now!

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Sindawe
February 13, 2005, 12:04 PM
Fine upstanding examples of law enforcement. :fire:

The site at the 2nd link requires registration. email:Newslinks@keepandbeararms.com Password: Newslinks works to gain acccess.

omega5
February 13, 2005, 01:37 PM
Yeh, What they did was wrong, Period. But, I know the officers and I know the scum bag meth head piece of ???? they beat up and I can tell you that the news report is decidedly slanted :cuss:

Preacherman
February 13, 2005, 02:11 PM
Omega5, if those officers did what it's alleged they did, they need to be doing hard time themselves, and forever disbarred from LE employment, firearms ownership, and voting rights! There is NO excuse for such conduct. I don't care how much of a scumbag the victim may be - two wrongs don't make one right.

Sindawe
February 13, 2005, 02:11 PM
So the cops actually did beat on the guy in this report, how is the story slanted? Please enlighten us.

Strings
February 13, 2005, 02:45 PM
I'm with Sindawe on this: how was this slanted? Unless the guy was actively trying to harm one of the officers (which would be an interesting trick, outnumbered and handcuffed), how were their actions justified?

HankB
February 13, 2005, 02:58 PM
If the story is on the level, and the LEOs actually DID beat up - heck, call it what it is, torture - a druggie AFTER he was handcuffed and in custody . . . I'm with Preacherman on this one. The LEOs need to be ex-LEOs and they need to be doing hard time in the pen.

The Rabbi
February 13, 2005, 03:00 PM
I'm with Preacherman.
Those guys deserve a long stretch in jail with "Prison Bitch" tatooed on their foreheads.

beerslurpy
February 13, 2005, 03:22 PM
I'd love to hear the extenuating circumstances for this one.

Break the law, go to jail. This is a rule so simple even cops should have caught on by now.

What these guys did I would have expected from say.... mexican police, not US police. Torturing someone just because you can get away with it doesnt suddenly make it "not torture" or "okay."

On the positive side, they appear to have been fired. Hopefully they will get tossed in jail for a long time as well. However, I suspect this federal trial thing may be an attempt to give them a slap on the wrist, something they would certainly not get in a trial by jury at the local level.

molonlabe
February 13, 2005, 03:29 PM
I think they need M16's furnished by the Federal Gov. to better do their job.

Luku
February 13, 2005, 03:33 PM
They should be doing hard time. :fire: This will make it harder for the good cops to do their job. I wonder if the sheriff will decide to run for reelection. They do have elections for county sheriffs in tennesse right?

The Rabbi
February 13, 2005, 03:45 PM
I wonder if the sheriff will decide to run for reelection. They do have elections for county sheriffs in tennesse right?
Yeah, but he probably has the support of his family and his wife's family and that's about 90% of the county. :D

Bluecard
February 13, 2005, 03:47 PM
No matter what the slant is, the end does not justify the means. We police officers are intrusted by the community to make the right decision and do so by following the law set forth by the Constitution. Once we violate that trust we should be held to a higher standard because we are part of society that should know better. I don't care how you spin it, there is no excuse for using excessive force. PERIOD. If the articles are true, there is no "making" this situation into an ambiguous "possible excessive use of force situation" it is nothing more than official oppression and it is WRONG, ethically, morally and legally. There are some that think officers whould never make verbal threats or use deception to gain compliance, well sorry, that in itself is not excessive force. Now you beat someone with a black jack then you are no better than a criminal and you need to go to jail!

JPL
February 13, 2005, 04:51 PM
Anyone surprised?

I'm not.

SOP for "police" in the United States.

71Commander
February 13, 2005, 05:13 PM
Damn, it's left my jaw gaping. It's a good thing it's winter and no flies buzzing around.

yorec
February 13, 2005, 05:33 PM
Complete and utter agreement, Bluecard. There is no question about this one - if the article is true these guys are no more than criminals. Period.

On the other hand - SOP for "police" in the United States. is the kind of moronic reaction that makes good cops hate to condem such a travesty. Makes them feel "identified" with the bad cops when they absolutely should not.

JPL
February 13, 2005, 05:42 PM
Yorec,

While I generally regard the entire police community with much distrust, and more than a little antipathy, you really should learn what quotes around a word does.

Try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Emphasis_and_ironic_quotes


Then, maybe, you'll understand, given that you attempted to practice it yourself.

orangeninja
February 13, 2005, 06:01 PM
Heck, I love these cop bashing threads. Very "Highroad" wouldn't you agree? :uhoh:

molonlabe
February 13, 2005, 06:21 PM
eh.. no. i would say this is a thread with cops bashing themselves. The paper is merely reporting this. Or maybe we shouldn't let the press print this stuff.

orangeninja
February 13, 2005, 06:24 PM
Right...oh of course. I agree, all cops are bad as indicated by the above posts and should not be mistrusted. Shhhhhh....5-0 might here you and shut down this thread.

I'm done. This is stupid.

71Commander
February 13, 2005, 06:30 PM
Maybe we should just pretend that this kind of behavior by the Police doesn't exist. We can all look at the world through rose colored glasses.

I, for one, want to know.

I don't view it as Police bashing. Thugs with a badge bashing, maybe.

pax
February 13, 2005, 06:37 PM
Okay, we all know that some LEOs do Bad Stuff. That's what this thread is about -- some very specific misbehavior by very specific individual cops in a very specific jurisdiction.

This is NOT about all cops everywhere in America. And it's not about insulting fellow members of THR.

If it becomes either of those things, it will be closed immediately, with appropriate sanctions taken against the offenders.

pax

Grey54956
February 13, 2005, 06:38 PM
No one is above the law. Not even lawmen. Throw the book at them.

deanf
February 13, 2005, 06:51 PM
I know the officers and I know the scum bag meth head piece of ???? they beat up . . .

So you admit that they beat him up, but your post gives the impression you are defending them. Strange.

DRZinn
February 13, 2005, 07:00 PM
all cops are bad as indicated by the above postsUhhh, where?

P95Carry
February 13, 2005, 07:09 PM
Thank Pax for your mod comments - unfortunately as I mentioned on this post of mine (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=1532028&postcount=41) we always seem to finish up with ''them and us'' on any LE posts - eventually!

hrb02
February 13, 2005, 07:14 PM
There are bad apples in every profession--ever hear of a teacher molesting his/her students :fire: . That does NOT imply that every hard-working, honest teacher has wandering hands--nor should it.

Same goes for LEOs. Let's not extrapolate from an extremely tiny sample and draw conclusions that are flat out wrong. It is not only unfair to the "good apples," but shows some questionable judgement on our part, IMHO.

rdbrowning
February 13, 2005, 07:20 PM
A month or so ago I heard a similar story out of KY. I wrote it off as an exageration. In that case the "drug dealer" was taken out to a squad car with only his pants on, no shoes, no shirt, no coat. There he sat for 2-1/2 hours. Alegedly the cops put his shoes in a 5 gallon bucket, poured lighter fluid on them and set them on fire the bragged that he did it because he could and that there was nothing the bad guy could do about it. When they finally got to the jail his hands were purple from the cuffs being to tight and he could not grip from having his tumbs over extended in a "sumbission" hold. Now this story sounds too similar.

DRZinn
February 13, 2005, 07:22 PM
Every time a thread pops up about police misconduct, real or imagined, there's a chorus of voices urging us all not to paint all cops with the same brush, often before anyone has done so!

carebear
February 13, 2005, 07:30 PM
So we have cops committing a criminal act, there's evidence to prove it, the system is on it as far as taking them to task, the press is on it to keep it from being swept under the rug...

Where's the big deal?

There a bad cops, they need to be dealt with per the law when discovered. In this case they are. Whoop-de-frikin'-do.

Just another example of the sustem working and why we, as a country, continue to be better than most of the world.

Coronach
February 13, 2005, 07:49 PM
Wow.

If true, they deserve to be punished.

JPL-

Anyone surprised?

I'm not.

SOP for "police" in the United States.Have anything besides rhetoric to back this claim up, "quotations" or no? Comments like that are incendiary and hardly an example of taking the High Road.

Mike

Coronach
February 13, 2005, 07:58 PM
Upon rereading-

1. They've been fired already

and

2. Are under federal indictment and are about to plead guilty.

I'm as horrified as anyone else by this, but its a good example of the system working. Running with the (pretty solid) assumption that everything is as it seems, I'm glad they're gone.

Mike

spartacus2002
February 13, 2005, 08:01 PM
This Behavior Has Been Sponsored By The War On Drugs, Coming To Your Home Soon.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: The cure is worse than the disease. End the War on Drugs NOW.

And don't tell me it's for the cheeeeeeeeeeeeeldren. NEWS FLASH: YOUR KIDS CAN GET POT AND COCAINE EASIER THAN THEY CAN GET CIGARETTES AND BOOZE.

Flyboy
February 13, 2005, 08:10 PM
I'm as horrified as anyone else by this, but its a good example of the system working.
Yes, it's working this time. However, I'm forced to wonder: would it have worked sans audiocasette? rdbrowning, in a previous post, said he heard a similar story, and dismissed it out-of-hand. We are naturally inclined to do so, because we are naturally inclined to believe that police are good people (and the vast majority of them, in fact, are); what, then, of the people who actually are victimized by police, but don't have this sort of evidence?

Here's an experiment for you: go out on the street and start videotaping cops. See how quickly you get stopped. I know somebody who went to jail for that very reason (and was quickly released). Since we're predisposed toward believing that the police are our friends, and wouldn't do such things (as is the case for most of them), how do we protect the rights of citizens without resorting to wearing tape recorders around our necks? Who watches the watchers?

Coronach
February 13, 2005, 08:51 PM
NEWS FLASH: YOUR KIDS CAN GET POT AND COCAINE EASIER THAN THEY CAN GET CIGARETTES AND BOOZE.Ok. That's not true. Don't squander a good argument with obvious hyperbole. It makes it so much easier to dismiss you completely.

Flyboy-

It would not have been nearly as clearcut without the evidence. Nothing ever is. Cops record stuff for the same reason- its so much easier to prove guilt or innocence with a recording.

The point is that this behaviour is rare, but catching it thus is not as rare as you might think. If you do this kind of crap more than a few times, someone is gonna set you up for a fall. Perhaps it is the "scumbag" on the street, perhaps it is Internal Affairs, perhaps it is a PI, perhaps it is another agency working a case. One way or the other, though, you will get caught, and the sooner the better. You think that the woman in the story randomly started the recorder? No siree. She knew these guys, and she set them up.

As to who watches the watchers...who polices the police? Internal Affairs. And while they might be cheese-eating rats, they perform a valuable function. Speaking as an officer from a department with a very active IA, I'm glad they're there.

Mike

LiquidTension
February 13, 2005, 09:39 PM
Coronach - I have to agree with Spartacus. In high school it was MUCH easier to get pot, coke, and acid than it was to get alcohol. This is because drugs are already illegal, therefore there is no incentive not to sell to minors. Alcohol, on the other hand, only carries a penalty for selling to minors. It was waaaay easier to get a bag of weed from someone than to have someone go to the store and transfer alcohol to you. So you see, it's not hyperbole...that's just the way it is.

As for the cops, hopefully they will go to jail. I'm told that cops get the worst treatment from other inmates in jail, and these guys deserve it, IMO. It's guys like this that ruin it for the good cops.

EVIL5LITER
February 13, 2005, 10:23 PM
In response to the argument against the War on Drugs:

What about meth? Do you just suggest we quit trying to bust methlabs?

I live in a nice, moderate income suburban neighborhood, or as nice as one gets in Alabama. It's not especially rural, but it does have it's fair share of low income families (household below 30k a year).

I would guess with approximately 500 family dwellings in this neighborhood, there are probably at least 5 methlabs in this neighborhood alone, with one very possibly being across the street from me.

Now, I do rent, and I plan on moving out to the boonies when it comes time to buy a house/land, but without a war on drugs, I have no hope but to do something akin to a Charles Bronson style "Deathwish" movie to get rid of ???? like this from my neighborhood.

Is this really what the public at large wants?

rock jock
February 13, 2005, 11:10 PM
What a shame. The good cops in this dept. are going to be saddled with the rep these morons have laid at their feet.

Flyboy
February 13, 2005, 11:52 PM
What about meth? Do you just suggest we quit trying to bust methlabs?

I think this is a case where the question doesn't do justice to the problem: it's not "should we stop busting methlabs," it's "what can we do to make the problem that methlabs pose go away?"

Methlabs are a very inefficient way to make methamphetamines. The cost (before trying to figure in risk) is around $0.50 or more per pill for a small operation, $0.25 for a larger operation.

Want to shut down the meth labs? Pharmaceutical companies make the stuff for between $0.01 and $0.005 per pill, and it can come in a little plastic wrapper like cold tablets for $0.03 per pill.

Meth labs are dangerous (especially if you have high chemists), they bring around "protection" and vagrancy in a local area. If you want to eliminate this, just start making it legal to sell it. The pharmas will shut down the methlabs in a few months.

If you want to debate the rate of drug addiction caused by legalization, or the social cost, etc, that's a different debate entirely.

My point is that you can shut down the meth labs and most of the trouble they cause - you just won't consider a possibility.

JPL
February 13, 2005, 11:55 PM
"Heck, I love these cop bashing threads. Very "Highroad" wouldn't you agree?"

A "cop" who engages in illegal behavior is hardly a cop.

He's (or she) is an uncaught criminal, and hardly deserving of respect, admiration, or protection.

zahc
February 13, 2005, 11:56 PM
That's not true.

It is around here.

I'm underage btw.

JPL
February 13, 2005, 11:57 PM
"Have anything besides rhetoric to back this claim up, "quotations" or no? Comments like that are incendiary and hardly an example of taking the High Road."

I'll suggest that you, too, familiarize yourself with the use of quote marks to form an ironic statement, one that is at loggerheads with the apparent meaning of the sentence.

I'll refer you to the same Wikipedia selection.

No, I suppose I should explain slowly and clearly...

"Police" who engage in illegal activities are nothing more than uncaught criminals, hence the use of quotes around the word police.

Engaging in illegal activities is SOP for uncaught criminals.

It wouldn't matter if they were dealing drugs, shaking down people for money, whatever.

Since they're police officers engaging in illegal activites, they're "police."

Oh, I know, the blue wall, brotherhood, protect your brothers at any cost, no matter what...

P95Carry
February 14, 2005, 12:04 AM
Thing here is - the only ''bashing'' should be just toward the bad apples ... no one could condone what it seems they did. No problem there for me.

The reality is - sometimes - the ''bashing'' can and does go beyond just the (few) bad apples ... and those should not be allowed to contaminate the majority - who are good guys. That is why the ''bashing'' is so often seen as non THR.

As per news - the bad is always newsworthy (sells copy!) - good things rarely get seen or reported as such. I try to remain an optimist! :)

The Rabbi
February 14, 2005, 12:08 AM
If you want to debate the rate of drug addiction caused by legalization, or the social cost, etc, that's a different debate entirely.

Can we avoid another inane pointless discussion on legalizing drugs? The people who are convinced of one side or the other wont have their minds changed.
If we've milked this for all its worth (and I think we have) let's just learn to live together and move on.

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