Hornady 357 XTP 158gr Flat Point question...


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Fumbler
February 15, 2005, 02:22 AM
Has anyone ever used Hornady's 158gr XTP FP (Not hollow point).

I accidentally picked up a box thinking they were the hollow points.
They are actually hollow points, but the jacket comes up and onto the meplat and it has a tiny hollow point.
It is a much smaller hollow than the 158gr XTP HP.

I intended to use these for hunting.

I haven't found any info on what the designed purpose of the FP is, so I don't know if they will expand some in a whitetailed deer.

What do you all think about this bullet for handgun deer hunting?
Has anyone fired these into any kind of medium and recovered the bullet?

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Mark whiz
February 15, 2005, 03:16 AM
Those Flat Points are really designed for target shooting, not for game.

HOWEVER, I'd be willing to bet they would be pretty good for tougher-skinned/boned game like boar or small bear. With something like deer, they would probably give great penetration with little expansion though - probably not your best bet for Bambi.

Fumbler
February 15, 2005, 03:44 AM
Yeah, I figured they were for silhouette.

I'll just use them for load development and when deer season comes along I'll get the HPs.

I don't need that much penetration for the whitetails here.

Richard.Howe
February 15, 2005, 09:03 PM
Great question. Here's some feedback from when I was wondering the same thing:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=94214

alex-v.
February 16, 2005, 06:04 PM
Has anyone fired these into any kind of medium and recovered the bullet?
Soak some newspapers or glossy magazines for a day or two. Get a stack about 18 to 24 inches and run your own tests. Shoot a 5 round group of the FPs into the wet-pack and recover the bullets. Discard the first half or so of the wet-pack because the "wound cavity" has really chewed the paper up. Add more wet-pack behind the left over paper and run another 5 round group, maybe some hollow points with the same powder and charge.

griz
February 16, 2005, 07:37 PM
I tried some of the 125 XTP flat points. I've never seen the 158 version, but the nose of the 125 is exactly as you describe, just a tiny little hollow point in a regular flat nose.

I tested them in wet phone books and they opened up slower and penetrated further than 125 XTP-HPs. The only time I have used one on game was a finishing shot on a big doe. The shot went in at the back of the shoulder, angling forward. The bullet hit the spine at an angle and sort of skidded along it for a few inches, breaking vertebra in the process. The recovered bullet had expanded well before it hit the spine.

I would assume the 158 FP was made with game in mind, for the simple reason that there is no need to put a little HP in it for target use. Sounds like a great match for a 357 rifle.

Fumbler
February 17, 2005, 02:25 AM
I think there is a hollow in it simply because they take the regular ones and jam the jacket over and onto the meplat. Probably saves production costs.
I dunno, just a thought.

I chucked up a few rounds into a lathe today. I took a countersink bit and opened the hole up some. It opened up the hole, cutting away most of the jacket on the meplat.
I was able to countersink, weigh, then take off more material until all the weights were within 1/10 of a grain, much smaller variance in weight.

I will shoot these to test for accuracy, maybe the bullets I modified will be more consistent because of less weight variation.

I hope to later test for penetration/expansion in the FP, modified FP, and some HPs.
Unfortunately I don't have any place to do the testing, the only time I have a place is when big game season is in. Any other time and it's illegal to have the 357 in the wods where I hunt. Maybe I can get on a friend's farm to do a little shooting.

Griz, what was that 125gr shot out of and was it a handload?

griz
February 17, 2005, 08:24 AM
It was a handload, a max load of AA #9 IIRC. I'll check back by the weekend (away from records now) and see if it was a 4 inch or 6 inch revolver.

By the way, that is some pretty consistent work if you can cut a hollow point to within 0.1 grains. Let us know what your tests show. How much do they weigh after being hollow pointed?

Fumbler
February 17, 2005, 09:40 AM
Before doing anything they weighed in at 158+/-0.3gr
the modified ones are 156.6-156.7gr.

It wasn't that difficult, just chuck them up, ream out the point, check the weight, then take a lil more out if it wasn't enough.

It will be a while before testing, but I will surely post results.

griz
February 18, 2005, 11:11 AM
I checked but I still don't know the barrel length. It was a warm load, going 1500 FPS out of a 6.5 barrel. (not the gun used for the deer)

Just as a precautionary note, Accurate has since reduced and at one pointed eliminated it's recomended load of #9 under a 125 grain bullet.

The Bushmaster
February 18, 2005, 11:13 PM
I loaded a box of 50 rounds of 158 gr flat nose XTP's. When it stops raining around here and I can get up to the ranch where I shoot I will run these over my chronograph and let you know how they went. I have loaded them with 2400 and W-296 using CCI550, WSP and WSPM All at max loads. Will run them through a Ruger Black Hawk 6 1/2 barrel. Be patiant...It's gotta quit rainin' and the road (dirt) needs to dry up some first.

Clark
February 19, 2005, 02:36 AM
From "Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 5th Edition Volume II" 2000 page 35:
1) #35750 HP, XTP .357" 158 gr. .206 BC, .177 SD, self defense, medium game, met silhouette, 700-1400 fps
2) #35780 FP, XTP .357" 158 gr. .199 BC, .177 SD, self defense, medium game, met silhouette, 1150-1800 fps

It looks like the canalure is the same from the front, so there is a little more room for powder in the FP. And at those velocities it is mostly a rifle cartridge, but my Colt 1903 .380 has pushed a 158 gr XTP HP at 1187 fps, but my load barely gets the bullet going fast enough for the FP. It is a rifle bullet.

Specifically NOT called out for these two bullets were the terms; "small game", "large game" ,"dangerous game", and "target match"

The Bushmaster
February 19, 2005, 03:11 AM
Clark...Good information except one thing. Explain to the crowd just how a .380 can fire a 158 grain bullet. :rolleyes:

Fumbler
February 19, 2005, 03:44 AM
Clark reloads all sorts of crazy stuff.
It is not impossible to stuff a .357" bullet down a .355" barrel.
I think in a previous post he did it with Lil'gun.

Clark, those are impact velocities correct?
What is your opinion on the FP vs HP on medium sized deer?

Clark
February 19, 2005, 10:13 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

With factory ammo I am getting 152 foot pounds.
With handloads I am getting 495 foot pounds.


M1903 [This is an 80 year old, big, solid .380 with good case support]
1) Winchester ammo 95 gr. 805 fps
2) WSP, 8.5 gr. Power Pistol, 158 gr. XTP, seated to 1.090", 1158, 1187 fps [this is 357 mag power]

The Alliant max load for 357 mag 158 gr. XTP is 8 gr Power Pistol, so the load I am shooting through the 380 must have much higher pressure due to the much shorter over all length of the cartridge.




But the Kel-Tec P3AT, which is the pistol I carry, [This is a tiny 6 ounce 380 with terrible case support]:
1) 6.5 gr. 800X, 110 gr .357 XTP, .970" [close to a 9mm load in a smaller volume, so pressure is higher, probably ~ +P+ 9mm]
2) 5.5 gr. Power Pistol, 115 gr Gold Dot [closer to a 9mm load than a 380 load, so this has the power ~ 9mm]


What does it all mean?
Based on my shooting 1 pound 6 month old roosters every year, 22 long rifle hollow points from a rifle have little or no effect in body shots. Head or neck shots are instant take down.

Shooting a deer in the body, I would prefer a bullet from a bottle necked cartridge that is moving more than 2000 fps and sends a shock wave through the flesh. At less than 2000 fps, I want a flat point, semi wad cutter, or expanding large caliber bullet to make a big holel

JackM
February 19, 2005, 10:59 PM
I tryed the 158 XTP FP bullets in water-filled jugs. They didn't expand at an estimated 1200 fps, but just punched through. They did expand nicely when they were fired in a 35 Remington ahead of a case full of 3031, estimated at 2200 fps. A Remington 158 grain SJHP comes apart like a varmint bullet at 2200 fps. So do skunks when they're hit with a SJHP at 2200 fps.

Bye
Jack

Fumbler
February 19, 2005, 11:09 PM
Cool, thanks for the post with firsthand experience.

I'll get around to shooting those modified FP's into something sometime...

junke
February 20, 2005, 02:27 AM
recenlty bought a win 94 .357 and have been working on a deer load using 180 GR. xtps crono out of 20" barrell @1575 W/15 Grns H110 group 2" @ 100yds. have some 158's xtp but havnt loaded them up yet.

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