[greyhound]

I know its not a +P round, its heavy and slow, and in general I have heard that Fed H-S are great bullets but weak on velocity.

That said, anyone have any experience with this ammo?

The alternative is Cor-Bon 125gr +P that will get 1250fps/434ft-lbs, but I am wondering if the slow and heavy Fed H-S will have less recoil and be better for follow ups. (Pistol is a Glock 19 with "Regular Cap" 15 rd magazines).

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

[Sean Smith]

Why only two choices? :confused:

Anyway, I don't really notice much recoil difference between 9mm loads to be honest, unless you are comparing total wuss vs. +P+ insane-o loads.

If you have to choose between the two, try both and use the one that is most reliable & accurate in your gun. If you can try others, I'd look into Gold Dots or Golden Sabers since they are more recent bullet designs than either of your options.

[George S.]

I had found a website that compared a variety of JHP rounds in various calibers. The Remington Golden Saber rounds seemed to perform better than the Federal Hydra-Shoks in the same weights and calibers. The expansion was better and the penetration was deeper. Speed Gold Dots also worked very well in the tests that were performed which used ballistic gelatin, cadavers and various types of clothing.

I now load my Ruger 9mm with 147gr Golden Sabers for my home defense pistol. I had also tried a couple of hundred rounds of both the GS and H-S rounds in my 1911 in 230gr and found the GS to be trouble free. The Hydra-Shok rounds gave me a few feeding problems.

After standing the Golden Saber round next to the Hydra-Shok, I noiticed that the GS had a profile much like the standard 230gr FMJ ball round while the H-S appeared to have less of a curve in the bullet profile. This may have been one reason why the H-S round did not feed as well as the GS.

[orangeninja]

The 147gr. hydrashock is one of the premier 9mm rounds ala the FBI. They used it and authorized it for years due to the good penetration that it offers vs. the 115 gr. and 125gr. rounds. This is not due to velocity but sectional density. The 147gr. has a lot of material behind that hollow point, which causes it to expand like a HP but penetrate like a FMJ to a certain point. It should be noted though that Gold Dot and Golden Sabre have outdone Federal because the post would occasionally bend to the side hurting penetration or break off which would cause loss of bullet mass and thus certain agencies had it replaced.

Criteria being maintain bullet mass while expanding reliably and penetrating somthing like 13 inches + of ballistic gel.

I only carry 147gr. rounds in my 9mm. I have carried Federal and have no problem with it. Gold Dot and Golden Sabre are my preference though.

+P and +P+ definantly is a bit snappier, but not an overwhelming amount. The 147gr. can be pretty sharp in subcompacts but still not bad.

[PCRCCW]

In my world the HS's are old technology. Sabers, Dots, Rangers and alot of other HP's have a better record. Expansion, Velocity etc....are alot better with the newer rounds. Just my opinion.......

Corbon is even updating their line......check it out. Weve never had more great choices for HP's.........Shoot well.

[orangeninja]

Only problem with Corbon is the bullets they use, I believe Barnes bullets, have a tendency to break apart from what I have been told. Either that or the jacket comes off early on in penetration.

[greyhound]

Think I need to get me some Golden Sabers!

I liked that round in .45 when I had my Ruger 97.

[Glock19Fan]

The HS is fine, but I would prefer WWB 147 grain JHPs. They expand great through many barriers including 4 layers of denim.

They are also much cheaper, just $10 per 50. They are sold at just about every WalMart in the US.

[CZ-100]

The HS is fine, but I would prefer WWB 147 grain JHPs. They expand great through many barriers including 4 layers of denim.

That is what I carry in my 9mms, and I feel very good in doing it.

Horray for WWB... :neener:

[RikWriter]

I don't think much of subsonic 147 grain 9mm ammo in general. It's the worst of both worlds IMHO...slow and small.

[phantomak47]

I like 124 gold dots, 147 was dropped by a lot of pds

[Wildalaska]

I don't think much of subsonic 147 grain 9mm ammo in general. It's the worst of both worlds IMHO...slow and small.

Bet ya wouldnt wanna get shot with one now would ya?

Wildhmmmm?Alaska

[Arc-Lite]

first find what works 100% of the time in your gun, and then go for penetration... many of the lighter rounds blow apart, the 147 GS and the 124 GD both have the punch and the penetration.

[orangeninja]

"phantomak47"

I believe most that did drop them went to .40 S&W. The ones that dropped them in favor of 125 or 124gr. did so over concerns of overpenetration. Modern Hollow points should prove to be more reliable. Either should be fine, however penetration is terribly important in real life situations. I'm not sure of the Ballistics of 125 gr.

I believe the ammo lab recommended loadings are as follows:

9mm-
Federal 135gr LE9T5
Remington 147gr Golden Saber
Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P
Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+ RA9TA
Winchester Ranger 147gr RA9T


From what I understand, this list is a compilation of rounds that penetrate 13 inches of ballistic gel and reliably expand.

Federal didn't make the list due to that center post deforming hurting penetration or breaking off, which reduced bullet mass. Part of the criteria was retention of a certain % of mass.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry Hydrashock or Gold Dot even though they are not on the list. Arlington Police Department here in Tejas carry the 147gr. Golden Sabers....I believe Dallas P.D. carries either 9mm or .357 Sig in Gold Dots. The caliber is up to Officer preference from what I am told.

[Glock19Fan]

IIRC, the LAPD and SDPD both use 147 grain 9mms, and are very happy with it.

In fact, I heard that the majority of PDs issuing 9mms are using 147 grain JHPs. I cant remember where I heard it from, but I THINK it was Shawn Dodson.

Besides, the 147 grain bullets are much better than the bullets of the past.

[RikWriter]

Bet ya wouldnt wanna get shot with one now would ya?


:rolleyes: I wouldn't want to get shot with a 22 Short either, but I would be unlikely to carry it for self defense. Please try something a bit more original.

[Marshall]

They're in my Hi-power as we speak.

[greyhound]

Just placed an order for some 147gr Golden Sabers.. thanks for all the help, folks....

[PowderBurn]

I don't carry 9mm for SD, so I don't have a preference for bullet weight/type. But the following is an excerpt from an article entitled "Ammunition for the Self-Defense Firearm" that I saw on Chuck Hawks website, but can be found elsewhere on the Internet:

"Now it is time to impart some crucial information: Never use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don’t care what you’ve heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains, and the 9mm 115 grain hollowpoints have established the best track record. 147 grain hollowpoints jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don’t gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks." http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm


This guy obviously has some strong views on the subject, but doesn't go very far towards substantiating them.

[Rob96]

Only problem with Corbon is the bullets they use, I believe Barnes bullets, have a tendency to break apart from what I have been told. Either that or the jacket comes off early on in penetration.

The Barnes bullet is the solid copper bullet used in their deep penetrating line. In the other loads I believe they use Sierra's.

[orangeninja]

Ah...I see, from what I have read though the Corbon hollow points don't maintain weight integrity and have reduced penetration. Read: "They break apart too easy."

[phantomak47]

If the 147 is such a good round then why did ayoob say this??

"Once touted as the ultimate 9mm load, its potency in the field proved so spotty that most agencies that adopted fasted 9mm ammo"

" One of the ranking fbi agents responsible for ammo selection told me he was disappointed with how many times it took for 147 grain 9mm bullets to stop an attacker. "


Massad Ayoob

[Wildalaska]

Please try something a bit more original.

Why, I use it all the time and it makes a lot more sense than bad mouthing a pretty effective round without any basis thereto....

They're in my Hi-power as we speak.

Mine too

If the 147 is such a good round then why did ayoob say this??

Oops forgot...Ayoob is god....never mind, time to change rounds.....

WildandcrazyAlaska

[copaup]

Possibly because Ayoob, like all of us, has personall preferences and all his expeirience is with the older rounds? Before we switched from 9 to 40 our load was the 147 gr ranger and we didn't have any problems with the load. We jumped on the 40 bandwaggon and went to the 180 gr ranger and have the same level of effectiveness with slightly increased recoil and slightly decreased capacity.

The above being said, if I recall Ammolab properly there were significant problems with the 147 gr hydroshock in both bare and clothed gel. I may be wrong, but I think it was the only HS tested that tended to fail to expand even in bare gel.

In my useless opinion it doesn't really matter what caliber and bullet you use as long as you have a reasonable minimum amount of power (my Min. comfort level is .380) and quality bullets from quality manufacture. All the rest is training to hit what needs hitting. Handguns all pretty much suck.

[orangeninja]

"copaup"

I pretty much agree with ya. Take into account Ayoob is a .45 guy who will say a 9mm is somewhat ineffective yet turn around and say a .38 Special is a good backup gun. :rolleyes:

Ayoob is old school. I recently read a book by Frank W. James who touted the superiority of a .41 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .45 ACP and .32 (for the mouse guns). His reasoning? Because 9mm FMJ was really crappy at killing livestock. :uhoh:

I guess he has his reasons, however I don't ever plan on shooting Bovine for self defense.

Ammolab dinged HS due to the bent post or broken post in the center decreasing penetration. However they always expanded for the most part. They also lost a lot of bullet mass when shedding the jacket and post. I still don't feel bad using it. There is better though.

People who say the 9mm is a mouse caliber or not a fight stopper need to wake up, handguns are NOT fightstoppers, they are fight discouragers. A fight stopper would be a 12ga. Very few guns have the capacity to INCAPACITATE an attacker. The only thing that will is a hit to the spine or brain. Bar none. Even a heart shot leaves 15-20 seconds of life left. Physiological shock is not instant. If the assailant gives up and is not hit in the head or spine, it is voluntary.

[RikWriter]

Why, I use it all the time and it makes a lot more sense than bad mouthing a pretty effective round without any basis thereto....

If you use it all the time, you should have heard all the very effective ways of countering it, one of which I already told you. It's a worthless argument that has no probative value whatsoever.

[BushyGuy]

i have my Ruger SR9 loaded with 17+1 rounds of 147 gr Hydra-shoks and the other spare magazine loaded with 124 gr hornady CQ TAP , i i have some 147 gr Gold Dots i was wondering which would work best for me , i still can tmake up my mind i need the most effecient round when my life is in danger.:banghead:

[shamus]

It boils down to where you out that hole.

[REAPER4206969]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvJjw3gcAww

[copaup]

ZOMBIE THREAD!!!! RUN!!!!

And four years later I will repeat my previous statement, all handgun rounds pretty much suck. Put a hole in something vital and caliber and load don't matter much.

[wesessiah]

in a full sized barrel 147 is fine, but in the shorter barrels the lower velocity can sometimes cause a lack of full expansion.

i suppose the federal hst may not have been around when this thread was started, but in current tests it seems to consistently do better than the others in expansion. i personally prefer speer gold dots because they expand really well and don't suffer from an occasional core/jacket separation like the others.

[BushyGuy]

I carry Cor Bons 125 gr +p in my Ruger SR9 - they are the most powerful 9mm heavy bullet next to the Federal 115gr +p+ ammo

[gym]

I carry a 45 when possible, at all other times I carry something. Because something is better than nothing. Too much is made of which bullett is better, I think if you hit someone in the right spot most will do the trick, and if you don't none will. There have been folks shot 5-7 times with 45's and lived, and others hit with a 22 and died on the spot.

[NG VI]

If they are available either online from a good seller like ATG or TDS-US I'd look for either version of the 147 HST by Federal over those two choices, they should be cheaper than those loads as well.

Otherwise I'd have to say try them out and see how they run in your gun.

Since it's a Glock or other modern pistol I'd guess it will probably be pretty consistent with high-quality ammunition like those two.

[jaysouth]

Richmond, VA PD carried them for many, many years before going to .357 Sig.

They managed to fill up the corner of good size cemetery with the 147 gr. Hydrashoks. They like the .357 Sig better but did quite well with their Sig 226s in 9mm.