March 8, 2003, 10:33 AM
Hi. I'm somewhat new to THR, and not one of the TFL "elite". ;)

I was hoping someone could explain to me why TFL shut down. I didn't give it much thought at first, but as I visit this site more and more, I notice more and more people with TFL references in their signature lines as if it's some sort of status symbol. I've also seen several posts where people reminisce about "the good ol' days of TFL" and how THR will never be like TFL.

So, since there are so many people that think so highly of TFL, why did it shut down?


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March 8, 2003, 11:52 AM
I had been on TFL for about 2 years when they went dormant. Rich Lucibella, the fellow that started and ran the site wanted to move on. Apparently it took a lot of his time to run it the way he saw fit. Some of the folks that helped him run TFL, decided to start a new site using the same type of software and similar format. You will see a lot of familiar TFL names on THR including the administrators.

Both sites are pretty much the same. THR has a way to go until it has such a broad base of knowledge that TFL had. But that is just a matter of time. Search TFL anytime you want. You will just about find an answer to any question regarding firearms.

I am sure a lot of the folks that were on TFL for years can tell you more than I can about the history of TFL and how THR took over.

Calamity Jane
March 8, 2003, 12:04 PM
I can't vote in this poll 'cause there's no option I'd choose. For me, there is no "versus."

As a gathering place for gunowners, TFL was great. Notice my use of "was", past tense. THR is a promising new chapter. Notice my use of "is", present tense.

As a source of knowledge, TFL can't be beat - but still, there is no "versus" here. TFL has four years of knowledge built up and archived, while THR has been around less than two and a half months. Give it a few more years.

Apples and oranges. :cool:

March 8, 2003, 12:11 PM
I consider THR as a continuation of TFL, not as competition or as a successor.

It's all good...:cool:

Oleg Volk
March 8, 2003, 12:12 PM
TFL is the Sire of THR. I can only hope that we don't embarrass the ancestor during our teenage years.

March 8, 2003, 12:14 PM
When I go back to TFL to search for some valued tidbit or another, the blue color looks funny now. Amazing how quickly one gets used to the new digs.

If a family moves from one house to a different one, does it become a different family? ;)

March 8, 2003, 12:18 PM
TFL shut down simply becuase its owner/creator needed the time to devote to other projects. He also knew that someone would be waiting in the wings to carry the torch further.

THR is not TFL, but, as Calamity Jane says, there is no versus. One began as the other one ended. Many of the same people are here. Similarities should not be surprising, but neither should minor differences.

I just wish that Oleg didn't make the moderators wear little fur hats with red stars on them and refer to him as "Lenin"... but thats just me. :D


Oleg Volk
March 8, 2003, 12:21 PM Hey, Tam looks good in one of those...and I only call one moderator "Lenin"...guess which one?

March 8, 2003, 12:34 PM
That was then, this is now.

4v50 Gary
March 8, 2003, 01:15 PM
We don't call Oleg "Lenin" but "Comrade Lenin.";)

March 8, 2003, 01:30 PM
THR is TFL with subdued earth tone colors.

'TFL Elite'? Why not just get a gun that says 'Elite' and be done with it? :D

March 8, 2003, 01:59 PM
TFL forever.

THR is a work in progress. Nothing wrong with that.


March 8, 2003, 03:28 PM
The Firing Line was an excellent. The best of it's time in my not so humble opinion. The High Road has most of what was great about TFL and it will mature with time. Keep in mind, we've only been open a lilttle over two months. TFL was around, what four years?

Jim March
March 8, 2003, 03:58 PM
TFL actually spawned a few boards in it's dying days, but Oleg's involvement in THR ensured it's "dominance".

Going great so far :).

March 8, 2003, 04:03 PM
I like the analogy of moving to new digs. It's not a versus thing, its an evolutionary thing.

March 8, 2003, 04:34 PM
I had the same feeling as you about the blue color.....was it always blue?

Jason Demond
March 8, 2003, 07:26 PM
It's not fair to Oleg, or any of our other staff members.

Art Eatman
March 8, 2003, 07:51 PM
TFL: Taught some, learned some, had fun.
THR: Teaching some, learning some, having fun.

TFL's archives are a resource. THR is an ongoing resource.

To me, it's mostly a change in name that is now the best RKBA site on the Web...It ain't perzackly the same, but so what?

:D, Art

Standing Wolf
March 8, 2003, 07:54 PM
This forum is usually faster and more reliable.

Gary H
March 8, 2003, 09:19 PM
Alexa shows that the same folks that owned TFL..own Highroad:

Group One Enterprises, Inc
562 East Woolbright Road Suite
Boynton Beach, FL 33435 US
123 123 1234

March 8, 2003, 09:35 PM
Gary H - You are wrong. THR is NOT owned by Group One Enterprises, aka Rich Lucibella. Oleg will explain...

March 8, 2003, 09:43 PM
Calamity Jane nailed it for me too.

Oleg Volk
March 8, 2003, 09:44 PM
When THR started, it was to be hosted on TFL's old server until we could get our own hardware worked out (we wanted to open THR quickly when we discovered TFL was closing - we didn't want to leave the members "homeless"). I registered the domain name using Rich's account...concurrently, Derek registered the same domain name with another registrar. Eventually, we went with Derek's server. Rich bought the software for us as a Christmas present. The old registration must still be out there, though it is invalid.

March 8, 2003, 10:17 PM
That darn Rich, always buttin' in and doin' nice things for RKBA types! :D There's way too many familiar names here for there to be any difference between the forums. The membership here is steadily increasing. I'll also defer to Calamity for expressing my thoughts. And I have one of those hats with a red star too, but you don't have to call me Trotsky or Stalin. :D

March 8, 2003, 10:26 PM
TFL was great. I tend to feel that THR is a smidge better than TFL in that it has evolved a little. TFL could get on ones case for certain non politically correct statements even if they were germane to the issue under discussion. THR lets these statements fly as long as no personal attacks or name calling is involved. I highly appreciate and respect that. Even if its not something nice to hear or talk about, some things should be tossed around some anyway. No disrespect intended, but TFL was ever so slightly blissninny in that respect.

Long live THR...:cool:

March 9, 2003, 12:38 AM
I put TFL - but I don't believe forever. TFL had a couple of things going for it. It was easier to discover because it just plain sounded like a shooting site. It also had a couple years behind it to gather its following and, as a result, wound up with an enormously large audience (We ain't doing too bad here, though !). Finally, as a result of TFL's time in service, TFL had inputs on almost all firearm related matters of it's time and so became an enormous database that I still use for some of the more obscure topics or reviews.

That said, THR is getting there. With the already large membership it is only a matter of time before THR meets or exceeds the accomplishments of TFL. As a firearm enthusiast I consider myself fortunate for the resourse that TFL, and now THR
provides. I used to be a gun magazine junkie - now I only buy when an extremely promising article appears. TFL and THR have become THE source I go to when considering purchases, brands and input on assembly and repair (I admit to, GlockTalk,
The Ruger forum, and the 1911 forum for type specific questions). All in all - TFL was great! - THR is great! A huge thank-you to those who have brought us both and to those who have contributed.


March 9, 2003, 12:46 AM
said it best for me...

March 9, 2003, 02:03 AM
As THR matures I think that it will be fairer to make the call.

Gary H
March 9, 2003, 10:15 AM

I've been curious about that one since December. They show THR as the 28841st busiest website. Thanks for the explanation.

March 9, 2003, 10:33 AM
Saw both from their inception.....

TFL was a continuation of Compuserve, only done better and with more open rules. Most of the originals @ TFL migrated there when the Compuserve discussion forum closed. The original TFL (Fall 1998) started with a very rigid "Firearms Only" policy, which almost killed it. @ the time, another Forum,, the "sister site" site of - owned by Earl Stewart, and TFL competed for the same posters. There were numerous complaints @ about the strict policy of 100% firearms related posts. Rich L. went so far as to award prizes to posters for generating some form of 100% gun related topics.
(Search General for @ the last)
Unfortunatly, most if not all of the first month of TFL is lost becuse there was no "General Forum". "Legal" goes back to the inception though.
Anyhow, someone (Rich L?) took note of the difference and relaxed the 100% rule. After that, traffic increased to the point that TFL began to drag down the performance of the server, which at that time hosted the site.
A move to a new dedicated server, and a software upgrade, allowed TFL to become the "fastest" firearms board on the net, along with the most "user friendly" interface. (Shooters had the speed, but it's layout was primitive)
(Circa ~ Late Spring 1999). That was the period (1999) of explosive growth for TFL.

(more @ some other point)

March 9, 2003, 10:51 AM
I think vs. is not doing either forum justice.

There are also things to consider; a lot of us TFL'ers have matured (some slower then others, speaking of myself) and so we have more knowledge to share with each other. That said, THR has a long ways to go as far as ARCHIVED knowledge. But if I've got a rifle question, I'm glad Art is around, if I've got a "I think they only make 30 of these guns, anybody tell me more about them?" question, Tamara is around... etc..

A lot of old faces, a lot of new faces, TFL was the best in it's days, and THR is here now. When I think of THR, I smile, when I think of TFL, I smile.

No vs.. Different era, different board.

March 9, 2003, 11:26 AM
I don't think it's an either/or proposition.

TFL Elites? Hardly. More like veterans.

Think of it as one great RKBA war. The theater of operations may have changed (TFL to THR), some of the troops moved on to other units, and were replaced by new recruits.

But the mission remains the same.

March 9, 2003, 12:51 PM
TFL and THR complement each other. Choosing between the two would be like choosing between ones children. No, I love both sites.;)

March 9, 2003, 12:58 PM
Good shooting;)

Sean Smith
March 9, 2003, 01:34 PM
Was at TFL, it seems like the same difference to me.

The furry hat pic is just priceless! :evil:

March 9, 2003, 02:05 PM
Poll isn't very fair.

TFL is still - and hopefully always will be - an amazing resource. THR's archive stands at about 10% of TFL's size, so far.

Won't say anything bout quality except that its everyones job to keep the quality of this forum up.

2nd Amendment
March 9, 2003, 02:17 PM
It's impossible to compare the two as resources. THR simply hasn't existed long enough to be competetive there. I do believe that it will grow to the TFL level in a shorter time than it took TFL because THR hit the ground running and the ideals and goals were already clearly in place.

As for the board itself, I actually like THR better because its policies are not quite so rigid as TFL. That means things will be a little rougher around the edges, true, but in the long term it'll make for a more varied resource and a larger audience with a wider(and sometimes louder) group of views and opinions. To me that's a good thing, though to the thin skinned it might not be.

March 9, 2003, 03:47 PM
I lurked some at TFL, but don't think I ever joined or posted. I enjoy THR. In fact, I probably spend about 80% of my internet gun forums time here. Keep up the good work.

March 10, 2003, 09:00 PM
No vote at all. The idea was to build an educated base of people to promote and defend the Right of The American People to keep and carry arms. The bonus was that other forums were started that made valuable knowledge available about firearms themselves. A small group grew into a small family from what I understand. The family grew to the point of growing pains on many an occasion. Server problems, bandwidth, etc. Their were some renegades along the way, one being a guy who called himself Cornered Rat as I recall. :D

This place is a gathering ground of people with vast knowledge and people who would like to learn. If you have time to learn, sit by the fire and soak in what you can.

If you never were a lurker or member of TFL read this thread and search around a bit. Old TFL ( Nothing that special about that post except that it was early on and a good discussion.

We will get there here in time. I will sit by the fire and learn for now.


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