(MA) 'Fight crime' plate on car at school has some parents fuming


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Drizzt
February 22, 2005, 03:08 PM
'Fight crime' plate on car at school has some parents fuming

By CHRISTINE PHELAN, Sun Staff

LOWELL -- An employee's car parked at Abraham Lincoln Elementary School lot has sparked fury among some parents ushering their children inside the school each morning.

The car -- a red, late-model Ford Mustang with a novelty plate on its front end reading "Fight crime, shoot first" -- irritated one parent so much that she complained to her son's pre-kindergarten teacher. The parent, who asked to remain anonymous, also took the issue up with school Principal Sandra Dunning earlier this week, as well as Superintendent of Schools Karla Brooks Baehr.

"Being a member of the staff, well, you have to be an example to the kids," the mother insisted. "You don't just do whatever."

"I can listen to parents and listen to their concerns," Dunning said. "But we do live in America. That's part of our democracy, free speech."

The parent, however, says the school's responsibility to provide positive role models to children supersedes the right to free speech, and that the offending license plate is a breech of the public trust placed in school employees.

"I don't think it's just a question of freedom of speech," the mother said, noting that while her son is still learning to read, the school's older students have full reading ability. "You don't leave it for the kids to see every day."

The First Amendment of the Constitution, which protects freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly and petition and was added in 1791, stipulates that Congress shall not "(abridge) the freedom of speech."

According to Taylor Flynn, a Northeastern University professor and expert in Constitutional law, the school employee with the plate might actually find favor if the case found its way into court, particularly because, in her view, the evidence that students' education is being disrupted by the plate is on the lean side.

"However, I think there is a fairly strong possibility that a court would find that the staff person's First Amendment rights are being violated if the employee feels (directly or indirectly) coerced into covering the plate or is doing so over her objection."

Principal Dunning, who admitted she was "a little surprised" by the plate, initially echoed Flynn's concerns, saying that such a message might be considered inappropriate if it entered the building. But outside? Dunning said that's a different matter entirely.

"If anything disrupts the educational process, we do have the right to ask staff and teachers to maintain a code of conduct," she said. "What is parked in a lot or on a street is a different matter, however. Whatever happens in the building we have control over."

"I think it's inappropriate," she said. "I think we all take responsibility to model appropriate language and behavior. Yes, they see all sorts of things on TV, in ads, that lots of people would find inappropriate as a model for a 5- or 6-year-old. But having (the license plate) there in the lot suggests we condone it."

The solution? Dunning and Baehr plan to mandate that the staff member somehow cover the plate upon arrival each morning, possibly with magnets and a cloth. The plate will be covered by the first day of school after February break, Feb. 28, Behr said.

"I expect cooperation on the part of the staff members to cover it up or obscure it in some way," Baehr said.

And when the staff member is not on school property -- and by that, Baehr means either in the building or in the parking lot -- "she's free to do as she pleases."

The parent who initially complained said she was happy with that solution, though put off that "going public" with the story was the route to compromise.

"I'm aggravated because they only did something when I said I was going to talk to The Sun," the mother said. "I feel that I had to go outside the school to solve a little problem, because this could have been solved within the school."

Christine Phelan's e-mail address is cphelan@lowellsun.com .

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Standing Wolf
February 22, 2005, 03:12 PM
Dunning and Baehr plan to mandate that the staff member somehow cover the plate upon arrival each morning, possibly with magnets and a cloth. The plate will be covered by the first day of school after February break, Feb. 28, Behr said.

No First Amendment civil rights in Taxachussetts.

TallPine
February 22, 2005, 03:13 PM
Bed wetters ..... :rolleyes:

(anybody know where I can get one of those plates? ;) )

Third_Rail
February 22, 2005, 03:14 PM
No First Amendment civil rights in Taxachussetts.

That's not true! We have 1st amendment rights, but only on some things. Pending local gov't approval.

Oops, not supposed to say that. :rolleyes: :scrutiny:

jefnvk
February 22, 2005, 03:23 PM
If I lived in that area, I would complain until every school employee had to cover any writing on their car, except for the state issued license plate. At least any that are against my viewpoint.

Sometimes, I think it will take the complete collapse of the Bill of Rights to show people that you cannot pick and choose.

Third_Rail
February 22, 2005, 03:34 PM
I live in the area, less than 10 minutes away.


They don't care about other complaints, for the most part. :barf:

jlwatts3
February 22, 2005, 03:40 PM
I agree if this person has to "obscure that plate" on other employees should be allowed any sort of bumper stickers.
The mother sounds like a real pain in the a$$.

TheEgg
February 22, 2005, 03:43 PM
eloi :barf:

Sippenhaft
February 22, 2005, 09:40 PM
The parent, however, says the school's responsibility to provide positive role models to children supersedes the right to free speech, and that the offending license plate is a breech of the public trust placed in school employees.Poor reporting standards, or a pun bordering on relevance?

Really though, I don't expect less. Something about schools and kids amplifies right-stripping behavior, which is really sad when you think about it. God forbid they try to explain something, like your own viewpoint (which I'm sure this lady isn't pounding into her kid's head every day) to the kid; assuming he will snap out being a meek automaton at 18 by magic isn't going to cut it.

Kharn
February 22, 2005, 10:08 PM
I guess they'd also object if the plate was replaced with one that read "Fight crime, shoot back"?

Kharn

bogie
February 23, 2005, 06:49 AM
The person needs a new plate.

"Be an easy victim. Submit."

I'm _serious_.

mete
February 23, 2005, 07:01 AM
While muslims in their madras schools teach kids to hate and to become suicide bombers here we teach kids to be sheep. It's the result of not teaching anything in school , like history. That woman obviously doesn't know that we got our freedom from England by force of arms .She never heard of the Minuteman ,or the battles of Lexington and Concord.

Don Gwinn
February 23, 2005, 08:46 AM
On the back window of my big red truck there's a black sticker that reads, in big white letters, "JUST SHOOT IT."

The mother sounds like the standard pattern of the nutty mom. School admins get to know these people well. They come into the school office waving an article on an obscure, ill-defined learning disability and demand a meeting to discuss it, and then you find out that they've called the meeting because they highlighted three things they think apply to their kids--this from a list of over thirty symptoms. When you look closer, you find that the "symptoms" are things like "doesn't show interest in academic subjects" and "often has to be told to do something more than once."

No, I'm not making this up. The boy's name started with a T and he attended the 8th grade in a school which was in a town which was in the state of Illinois.

My wife's got one now who's got a lawyer practically on retainer just so she can protest every part of the school's reading program. It's just part of the job.

Bubbles
February 23, 2005, 09:27 AM
This school employee needs the bumper sticker that says "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns". :neener:

artherd
February 23, 2005, 02:45 PM
"Girls: Just roll over and let him rape you" Would be a fun sticker to replace it with.

Hot brass
February 23, 2005, 04:38 PM
How about "Do not fight crime, just die"

ZeroX
February 23, 2005, 06:16 PM
This school employee needs the bumper sticker that says "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns".

I need to get one of those! :D

DelayedReaction
February 23, 2005, 06:24 PM
According to Taylor Flynn, a Northeastern University professor and expert in Constitutional law, the school employee with the plate might actually find favor if the case found its way into court, particularly because, in her view, the evidence that students' education is being disrupted by the plate is on the lean side.

"However, I think there is a fairly strong possibility that a court would find that the staff person's First Amendment rights are being violated if the employee feels (directly or indirectly) coerced into covering the plate or is doing so over her objection."

and

The solution? Dunning and Baehr plan to mandate that the staff member somehow cover the plate upon arrival each morning, possibly with magnets and a cloth. The plate will be covered by the first day of school after February break, Feb. 28, Behr said.

Sounds like a clear-cut case of stupidity on the school's side. They're opening themselves up to a lawsuit which clearly does not favor them. Idiots.

Markheck1
February 23, 2005, 07:04 PM
I'm just wondering if there are any cars with those stickers of the little calvin lookin dude flippin everybody off, or urinating on Ford, Chevy, Whatever....you see those everywhere, and that's an obscene gesture

spacemanspiff
February 23, 2005, 07:08 PM
a shiny nickel says that this disraught mother lets her kid play violent video games and has toy guns to go around pretending to shoot up the neighborhood with.

hypocrisy knows no boundaries.

rageman
February 23, 2005, 07:21 PM
The part that really hits me isn't any part of the parent's ridiculous complaint, or the school's asinine response; its the reporters inclusion of this tidbit:

The First Amendment of the Constitution, which protects freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly and petition and was added in 1791, stipulates that Congress shall not "(abridge) the freedom of speech."
I figure that if someone is reading the newspaper and is actually bothering to read the entire article, I am sure they know what the 1st Amendment is. At least, I certainly hope people aren't that stupid.

NHBB
February 23, 2005, 07:33 PM
the most embarrassing thing about this is the fact that the media picked up on such a lame incident and that mother is probably feeling all warm and fuzzy inside thinking she did something good. then again... this exemplifies perfectly what MA is all about.

Rebeldon
February 23, 2005, 07:45 PM
How about a bumper sticker that reads:

Honk if you're unarmed.

nico
February 23, 2005, 08:11 PM
The teacher ought to do one of two things: 1. Tell them where they can shove their mandate or 2. Give in, then start making a HUGE (at least twice as obnoxious as the "parent" mentioned in the story) deal about anything and everything that they don't like; bumper stickers that say "John Kerry, President," "Green is Good," etc., cars that aren't made in America (they discourage the American working man/woman afterall)

Personally, I think I'd go with #1

peacefuljeffrey
February 24, 2005, 04:35 AM
Sickening. It's just sickening how we are forced to tailor our behavior to mollify the thinnest-skinned losers among us. :fire:

If I were the teacher with this license plate holder, I wouldn't cover it: I'd continue to leave it on, and I would entertain NO DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. If any other teacher or employee of the school, or parent, continued to harass me about it, I would sue under employment protection laws (at least, I know we have them here in FL) because they were creating a "hostile work environment" for me! And if the school let parents harass me about the plate holder on school grounds, I'd hold the school liable for allowing the hostility to affect me.

I sure as hell would not cover the plate. LET them fire me. When I kick their asses in a civil suit, maybe they'll learn a lesson.

I wonder what these idiots would do if someone had a variety of other potentially controversial holders or stickers on their car:

Choose Life
It's Not a Choice, It's a Baby
any of the various vulgar Pro-choice ones (can't think of the one specifically, but it's about keeping hands off something)
Keep Honking: I'm Reloading
Hang Up and Drive!
I'm the NRA and I Vote!
I'm Pro-Choice and I Vote!
I'm Pro-Life and I Vote!
Make Love, Not War; Be Prepared For Both


I wonder if this comes down to a simple grudge against any pro-gun message. If it were about anything else, I'm sure that these morons would be protecting the free speech rights of the teacher.

The biggest irony is that this is being done to supposedly protect the students, whom we KNOW already have been determined to have fewer rights in school than anywhere else they might go! They do not have protection from warrantless searches of their persons (right down to strip searches), bags, and lockers; and they also don't have free speech rights (as we see when the school paper gets censored). Thier right to freely assemble is nil in school too.

-Jeffrey

Bubbles
February 24, 2005, 08:22 AM
Just a thought, but... isn't it against the law to deliberately block or obscure a license plate?

nico
February 24, 2005, 08:28 AM
If it's one of those decorative plates (which is the impression I got from the story), it's probably in a state that doesn't require front plates so. Besides, since it doesn't identify the car, there wouldn't be anything against covering.

Old Fuff
February 24, 2005, 10:42 AM
Folks just don’t understand …

In the blissnanny states there are the elites who have all of the rights …

Then there are the rest who only are allowed those rights that the elites will allow them to have – which are darn few and always open to interpretation.

And of course having an opinion that isn’t elitist-approved is absolutely forbidden! :banghead:

If they don’t run this teacher/staff member into the ground the commoners might start thinking that they actually did have constitutional rights and become rebellious. :eek:

Couldn't have that ... :evil:

DRZinn
February 24, 2005, 12:31 PM
If she gives in, someone who lives in the area should pass by daily and remove the cover.

Not only does she have the right to say it, but how could it even be considered offensive? Idiots.

TonyB
February 24, 2005, 01:38 PM
This dose not suprise me in the least..most schools have a "zero tolerance" for ANYTHING even remotely pro-self defense.....In most schools even if you are attacked and defend yourself,you're looking at a suspension...there is little freedom in our schools,unless you are a communist,socialist,liberal,or vegan......any pro-life,pro-gun,christian meat eater is a "right wing wacko"and has no rights.......God bless America..

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