Gun Manufacturers: Just say NO to California!


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Andrew Rothman
February 25, 2005, 12:01 AM
from http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/rw722.html

When Will the Firearms Industry Say NO MORE to California?

By Ralph Weller
GunNewsDaily.com
Monday, February 20, 2005

California Assemblyman Paul Koretz introduced legislation this past week requiring all center-fire semi-automatic handguns sold in California starting in 2007 to stamp serial numbers in the brass cases when fired.

The bill says that a "microscopic array of characters" must be located in the inner-workings of the handgun, presumably the chamber or on the firing pin, that would imprint the make, model and serial number of the handgun onto the brass case or primer. It's not specific but it does mention the case, so the firing pin may not qualify with a primer marking.

The bill makes no mention of what happens when a gun owner needs to have work done to their firearm and if it is obliterated or no longer visible after the work is complete. It makes no mention of what a gun owner needs to do if the "microscopic array" just flat wears down over time and no longer imprints the information on the case. It makes no mention of whether modifying a firearm to remove the "microscopic array" is illegal, nor, if worn down over time whether the gun owner is subject to penalties for owning a firearm that can no longer imprints the information on the case.

But, what the bill also doesn't say, but screams out loud, is that Koretz could care less about any of these issues. What Koretz cares about is pricing firearms out of reach so the average Joe can't afford to purchase a gun. Already hundreds of firearms are no longer available to Californians due to state regulatory requirements requiring certain features, indicators and state mandated testing requirements that some manufacturers refuse or simply can't comply with financially. Bills passed last year for certain chamber-loaded indicators and disconnects that render the firearm inoperable with the magazine removed, go into effect January 1 2006 which will eliminate another round of guns for sale here. Now there could be another hoop for firearm manufacturers to jump through starting January 1, 2007 that ends up driving the price of all firearms through the roof, not only in California, but nationally as well. And, who knows how many firearms will not be sold in California due to the cost to implement this across all product lines. Another pile of firearms will disappear from California. In another couple or three more years of ingenious legislation like this, no one will be able to buy a gun in California which has been the plan of the left all along. But of course, the only people exempt from all this are law enforcement and governmental agencies. Maybe we need to have a special plan for them.

Gun manufacturers are the ones that have to stop this kind of legislation. They need to band together and JUST SAY NO to this stupidity in California. It's time to take a stand.

All handgun manufacturers are challenged to "Just Say No." Get off the drug of government contracts and law enforcement sales to California agencies. Get off the drugs and tell the politicians of California that they can't have it both ways. While government officials drive your costs up with red tape, they negotiate firearms contracts to arm their law enforcement personnel. Just tell LAPD, SFPD, CalDOJ, CHP and every city and county law enforcement agency, every assembly person, every state senator, every police chief and sheriff, and Governor Schwarzenegger, that if this bill is signed into law, that will be the day all handguns cease to be shipped to California including all governmental agencies within the state. Do you think it will become law? Probably not. And, if they say they "we won't be held hostage to the gun manufacturers" and they follow through with the law anyway, cease shipments to California. That will be the end of it. The state will cave because they can't afford not to. The cries of whining police chiefs advocating gun control today will be loud and clear for legislators to back off. Manufacturers need to keep doing it for every new law that places an unfair burden on you as a manufacturer. It's time to get tough. It's time to turn the tables on politicians like Paul Koretz. It's time for the gun manufacturers to sit down and map a strategy to stop these people in California. And so what if they accuse you of collusion. These people are engaged in collusion to run you out of California. They are engaged in collusion of violating the constitutional rights of its citizens. By all measures, they should be branded as traitors, tried, found guilty, their citizenship revoked, then exported to a country they so readily emulate. So what if they don't like the way you do business. We don't like the way they run the government! Do you?
<>So take a stand. Threaten the hell out of them. Then stick to it if they don't like the threats. But you have to all agree as a coalition. Let the state sue you. Heck, they've been suing the socks off you anyway, what's one more lawsuit? Make the government pay for what they are doing. They have to be held responsible for their actions. Right now, there is no retribution. The dumb voters here haven't a clue. Otherwise they would have voted these left-wing liberals out of office in the last election. It's up to you. You have a right to not sell your product to a hostile customer whose only purpose is to run you out of business.

Quit hiding in the corners allowing some shadow manufacturer's group or hired lobbyists to speak on your behalf. You need to do it directly and you need to punch them right between the eyes. You cannot continue to take it in the shorts financially at the expense of politicians who only seek to line their own pockets at the expense of its citizens and you the firearms manufacturers. Send letters to all of them putting them on notice. Let the left who will feign being insulted by your letter open their big mouths. Let them start talking about their agenda to run firearms manufacturers out of California. It is as clear that my prediction of 1999 that the left want all handgun sales to cease here to the general public by 2010 is becoming a reality. But if you wish to save your industry in California, you need to start now. Or, the only sales in California will be to government agencies in another few short years, and it's guaranteed you can't survive on those kind of profits.

This article may be reprinted or redistributed using any means of communications providing GunNewsDaily.com is recognized as the originating source.

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TonkinTwentyMil
February 25, 2005, 04:22 AM
The politico behind this silly legislation (ASSemblyman Koretz) represents the West Hollywood district. This is the very same community whose city fathers voted just a few years ago to "ban" all those evil Semi-Automatic (including pistols) "Assault Weapons". Later, when the ballistically-illiterate idiots discovered that their "ban" also disarmed the L.A. County sheriff deputies who provided their police protection (via Beretta 9 mm's), they quietly rescinded this knee-jerk ordinance.

The West Hollywood area of greater L.A. is home to some of the most liberal folks/voters in the U.S.. Many "creatives" behind our TV/movie entertainment live and work here. The Writers Guild of America is based here. Remember that the next time you watch "West Wing" or other entertainment with the usual dose of liberal-biased political "messages" (and let those TV shows' advertisers know right away WHY you won't be buying their products, too).

Additionally, their U.S. Congressman is the notorious Henry Waxman (whose district also includes Beverly Hills and Santa Monica -- not exactly bastions of pro-2A sentiment).

The real importance in shooting down this legislation, per Matt Payne's post, is in totally discrediting the junk-science behind so many "progressive" gun control schemes. For example, Maryland's multi-million $$ Ballistic I.D. boondogle is on the verge of being scrapped, thanks to input from the MD state police (who say it's a useless joke).

While proposed laws like this are scary, they're also a great opportunity to expose these political sissy-boys and their constituencies as the silly, technically uninformed snot-balls they really are.

I urge a few California gun owners to immediately commence marketing "ASSemblyman Koretz Ballistic I.D. Circumvention Kits" consisting of:

1. A small FILE for readily altering the proposed firing-pin marks.
2. A bag of multiple/various calibre spent cartridge cases to scatter about the scene of any future shooting which the gun owner might be involved in, to confuse the ballistic investigators.

When THAT hits the local TV news, perhaps the local cultural elites will see the light... at least untill the next scheme comes along. This IS a war, and it never ends.

jdberger
February 25, 2005, 04:48 AM
Lately I'v thought that the tobacco companies should do the same thing in CA. Given our current fiscal crisis, the loss in tax revenue would be crippling to the state. It would be hysterical to watch sin-tax members of the assembly shriek that they were being treated unfairly as their pet programs got cancelled due to lack of tobacco tax revenue. Oh..the beautiful irony...

Waitone
February 25, 2005, 07:46 AM
I wouldn't be surprise to see such tactics employed in the future. There has to be a critical mass of public opinion that <insert advocates of choice> have gone too far. Once that occurs certain logical processes begin operating.

Slight thread change veer ahead. I can't see any reason why gun manufacturers locate in states that are clearly anti-gun. Same with importers. I'd love for one or two hoist a single digit salute and simply leave for a friendly state. Yea, I know I'm dreaming.

foghornl
February 25, 2005, 08:19 AM
I can't see any reason why gun manufacturers locate in states that are clearly anti-gun.

Yeah, why is Springfield Armory still in Geneseo, ILL ? ? ?

Given, the whole state is not like Peoples Demonkratic Republik of Chikago, ILL, [unless Emperor DICK Daley II gets his way].

I am fairly sure that Illion NY is not the same as NYC, NY, but your point is well taken, WaitOne.

Bubbles
February 25, 2005, 09:28 AM
I have heard, though I can't verify, that most domestic manufacturers of .50BMG rifles (including Armalite, Barrett, MacMillan, Pauza, and Serbu) will not sell to any law-enforcement agencies in California since their ban was put in place.

I'm sure you all remember this letter from Ronnie Barrett to the LAPD:
http://nramemberscouncils.com/caspecial/la50banbarrett.shtml

From what I've heard, the rifle is still... ah... awaiting "service" and will be there for quite a while... :D

Rexrider
February 25, 2005, 12:07 PM
Be careful what you wish for.

I would guess there are many Calf politicians who would be thrilled to see all gun manufacturers pull out of Calf.

After all the guns are off the self, they would simply offer higher priced contracts to supply law enforcement. Make an offer the manufacturers can't refuse and someone will bite. It's only tax money anyway.

George S.
February 25, 2005, 12:37 PM
All this proposed legislation would have to do is to exempt this "tatooing" requirement for any firearms sold in CA to law-enforcement agencies, or any business where carrying weapons is otherwise authorized (like armored car businesses, private security firms), or exempt all federal agency where carrying a weapon is authorized by federal law. Then you would have the support of the CA police agencies.

As long as LEO's could continue to get the weapons they need, they would most likely support such a bill and perhaps even lobby the state legislature to pass it.

But, like the other idiotic scheme that would have marked bullets with a serial number, the cost of creating a system to track all of this data, and the people required to run it, and the computers needed to handle the data would probably have to come from the state's funds. I would figure that a new system like this would run around 25-35 million dollars just for design, testing and staff. Then something like 10 million a year for running it and enhancements. And CA would be hard pressed, given their financial condition, to even come close to building an effective system.

Of course the gangs, illegal aliens, robbers, muggers, murderers and other criminal elements would have to buy the "new" guns so they could continue their criminal pursuits.

R.H. Lee
February 25, 2005, 12:48 PM
Just tell LAPD, SFPD, CalDOJ, CHP and every city and county law enforcement agency, every assembly person, every state senator, every police chief and sheriff, and Governor Schwarzenegger, that if this bill is signed into law, that will be the day all handguns cease to be shipped to California including all governmental agencies within the state. This is exactly what needs to happen IMO. After all handgun sales are cut off to California, I predict a HUGE increase in underground undocumented handgun trafficking that the state has no way to control. It will backfire on them, as do all liberal lefty statist schemes.

50 Shooter
February 25, 2005, 01:32 PM
It won't work, the U.S. Gov. would just ship guns to all the law enforcement agencies here.

Barrett unfortunately "did" send the M82 back to LAPD.

While a good idea for gun comapanies to think about, I'm sure they would make one of them an offer they couldn't refuse. Probably one that's from a foreign country.

R.H. Lee
February 25, 2005, 01:34 PM
And besides, what's to keep a criminal (or anybody for that matter) from 'buffing' the firing pin or 'smoothing' out the chamber? :rolleyes:

foghornl
February 25, 2005, 01:37 PM
Can you say "Dremel Tool & Jeweler's Rouge"?






I knew you could, folks.

Standing Wolf
February 25, 2005, 10:30 PM
Firearms manufacturers stand up for principle?

Let me know when it starts raining nickels, please.

Clean97GTI
February 26, 2005, 02:42 AM
Perhaps someone should let the politician know that stamping a thin brass case full of explosive powder is NOT the best idea when you are firing it off.

I'd love to hear about those lawsuits except for the fact that they would be aimed at manufacturers who were forced to comply simply to sustain a business.

I'm not surprised to hear the Barret sent the rifle back to CA. His company was probably under obligation to fix the rifle (assuming it was under warranty)
I'd hope thats the only work he does with the LAPD for quite a while.

wolf
February 26, 2005, 03:20 PM
stamp..tax..restrict..ban..eliminate..hey it works..in Los Angeles, a county that cranks out 500+ homicides a year, mostly gang related, without much effort.."small" handguns are already banned here..not many folks know that..in fact alot of people think guns have been totally banned here...the few independent gun shops in LA county are not long lived...and one such store is in west hollywood..on the sunset strip no less

if a few more "handgun" related crimes make top news..the few who still vote out here for mayors and other local canidates could pass a total ban without trying...we have a mayors race out here that is a total joke..5 dems running..ranging from liberal to "way out there "..and one republician...that the LA Times (another joke) will not even recognize as a candidate..

bleek..indeed..hopeless no .. but its no walk in the park..

wolf

artherd
February 26, 2005, 11:19 PM
I had heard Ronnie Barrett's responce was "We're not fixing it, and I'm not going to the trouble of packing it up. It's your property, so you are free to come and get it." And they had to fly a rep out.

I am not sure how accurate the above account is.

deej
February 26, 2005, 11:48 PM
Liberty-minded firearms manufacturers should sell to everyone in California EXCEPT government agencies and their employees.

mussi
February 27, 2005, 07:40 AM
And what about all the revolvers that don't strew cases? Or single-shots?

armoredman
February 27, 2005, 09:14 AM
Foriegn imports would be the hardest to stop - Cali would simply set up a new import company to handle whatever foriegn company they decided to go with,m and get them direct. Glock would not care a fig about our laws, and would be happy as a clam to have exclusive sales in the whole state, even if LEO only.Berretta, HK, Walther, all in socialist countries whose home grown firearm restrictions make Cali look positively conserviative, so they would not blink and eye....

saltydog
February 27, 2005, 01:58 PM
Prohibition never worked here in the U.S. I bet I would be suprised what is floating around the streets in Kalifornicate. :D

stealthmode
February 27, 2005, 07:01 PM
i think the opposite

more gun manufactures need to give us californians a bigger selection before we cant buy here anymore at all.

Jim Diver
February 28, 2005, 01:43 AM
Your selection is gonna be limited from now on... All new model guns now have to include, among other things, a mag disconnect. I will never buy a POS with a disconnect.

I agree that manufacturers should refuse to sell to LEO in PRK.

F4GIB
February 28, 2005, 11:29 AM
Firearms manufacturers stand up for principle?

Why should they? Gun owners (whinning that "I love their smooooth trigger works") have failed to destroy Smith and Wesson. The leaders of this industry (Barrett excepted, perhaps) are guys who would sell their daughters as slaves to a Sudanese warlord IF they could get a good "rate of return."

When gun owners forgave Smith and Wesson, again and again, the industry learned it could s**t on the carpet and get off with tough talk. That's no way to train a dog.

SRYnidan
February 28, 2005, 01:11 PM
If the people in the state won't do it the gun companies on the outside sure as hell won't.

G1FAL
February 28, 2005, 02:48 PM
There are a few comments in this thread that I want to respond to, but only one I am going to quote.

Foriegn imports would be the hardest to stop - Cali would simply set up a new import company to handle whatever foriegn company they decided to go with,m and get them direct. Glock would not care a fig about our laws, and would be happy as a clam to have exclusive sales in the whole state, even if LEO only.Berretta, HK, Walther, all in socialist countries whose home grown firearm restrictions make Cali look positively conserviative, so they would not blink and eye....

So we all know the solution to that, right? DONT BUY THOSE FOREIGN WEAPONS. Let Glunk, H&K, and Walther know that if they sell to the PRK .gov, they lose civilian sales in the rest of the US. They might not care at first, but I t hink after a few years they'd notice and try to make things right. Probably by offering huge sales and such. But as long as we stick it out, we could probably win in the end.

I dont know why any company associated with firearms chooses to locate themselves in the PRK, PRNY, PRMD, PRNJ, or the Demokratik Sozialiste Worker's Happy Paradise Fun Land Happy State Republik of ILL-noise. As I've pointed out before, maybe not on this board but I KNOW I've said it, all they're doing is helping the enemy. Every dollar they take in is taxed, which gives the state more money to make, and worse, enforce, stupid laws like this.

I'm sure there are gun-friendly states who would love to have Springfield Armory set up shop. Or Colt (yech!). Or WhatACountry. Or any of the other businesses that are behind the lines right now. I'd think that Montana, Idaho, or the Dakotas would be ecstatic to have a Bushmaster factory, or any of the others.

But the manufacturers and suppliers arent the only ones to blame.

There's a solution, but I wont mention it again. Last time people crawled out of the woodwork to attack.

So let's just keep letting things go the way they're going. Heck, let's just save time and turn everything in right now. It'll happen eventually, and no one will do anything about it anyway. Might as well make life easier on ourselves, right?

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