CMP Garand in full auto


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PAC 762
February 27, 2005, 09:44 AM
I picked up 3 Greek RG's from the CMP a couple months ago. Yesterday I just got around to trying out a 1955 HRA and was rather supprised to discover it is firing in full auto. :what: It let out a burst of 3 rounds. It stopped firing when I let go of the trigger, so I don't think it's a stuck firing pin issue. Anyone have any ideas on what it could be? I'm guessing a worn trigger group part, but I'm far from an expert in these things.

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Mr. Mysterious
February 27, 2005, 10:33 AM
Could you have been unintentionally doing something similar to bump firing?

El Rojo
February 27, 2005, 12:20 PM
I could see bump firing 2 rounds, but three? I guess the only thing you can do is just enjoy it!

Just kidding. Take it to a gunsmith and get it fixed. A) I don't know how safe it is and B) you don't want to get caught with a full-auto gun.

PAC 762
February 27, 2005, 12:31 PM
Def not a bump fire. I was shooting off sandbags with a tight grip and shoulder weld.

I'm going to call the CMP tomorrow and see if they will do an exchange for a properly functioning rifle. I think they might agree since it's likely an unsafe condition.

BTW- Should I be worried about having this rifle in my possession? I received the rifle directly from the CMP and have done nothing to it except run a patch down the bore before shooting it. I did not even break it down for cleaning. Should I remove the trigger group and locate it away from the rifle? I don't know if it's safer to remove the trigger group or leave the rifle intact, so there is no evidence that someone could use to allege that I disaassembled the firearm and was fiddleing with it to intentionally cause the FA fire.

gaven
February 27, 2005, 12:33 PM
send it off quick and have it modified to hold 20 round box magazines .
just kidding , good luck

El Rojo
February 27, 2005, 12:38 PM
I am not a lawyer, but if it were me I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as you take actions to fix it soon. Calling the CMP and telling them would probably be a good first step. I don't think taking the gun apart is going to make it any less of a full-auto gun and so you probably would be just wasting your time as the BATFE won't care that it is in two or three pieces, only that it can go full-auto.

Call the CMP and tell them what is happening and ask for their suggestions.

444
February 27, 2005, 12:47 PM
This is not all that uncommon with M1s. One of mine did it. It is a trigger issue, no big deal. I was shooting a match with some engineers from Browning who showed me exactly where the problem was and told me how to fix it. If I had known then what I know now, I would have fixed it myself, but, I sent my trigger in to Fulton Armory, told them what it was doing and told them while they were at it, do a trigger job on it.

DMK
February 27, 2005, 12:48 PM
My CMP Service Grade Garand was doing that also. Not right away though, it was after about six months of shooting it. I changed the springs with a Wolf kit and it seemed to help, but it still did it once in a while. It's *very* unnerving!

Some folks here told me it was caused by not following through, ie. not pulling the trigger all the way back. In essense, I was accidently bump firing rounds two and three as the rifle recoiled, moving back just enough to reset the trigger, then moved forward again slightly tripping it again to fire another round.

The problem has never occured again since I had Dean of DGR (http://www.dgrguns.com/) rebuild the rifle and do a trigger job on it. He does a very thorough inspection of the rifles before he rebuilds them and gives you a copy of his check list. Interestingly enough, he indicated with a handwritten note that even before the rebuild, my rifle was in almost perfect condition aside from a slightly worn barrel and loose stock. Maybe the loose stock had something to do with it or possibly more likely is the fact that the lighter and smooth as silk trigger(Dean does excellent work!) now allows me to more easily follow through properly. Who knows...

shermacman
February 27, 2005, 12:51 PM
Send it me! I'll trade you my CMP M1, great condition, great shooter, but it is only one-pull-one-bang!

:evil:

PAC 762
February 27, 2005, 01:08 PM
I just sent an email to CMP to cover my @$$ in case the ATFE decides to give me a hard time.

444: Can you explain what needs to be done to fix it? If not, can you possibly provide a link that might give more detail?

Pat S
February 27, 2005, 01:25 PM
I've seen this with another CMP gun but it would double. It had come soaked internally in oil from CMP and the claw sear assembly in the trigger group was oiled up also. This sear assembly was meant to be run dry of oil with no oil at all on the sear/hammer engagement points. It seems with the oil the surface it is too slippery and the claw won't stay hooked when the action cycles. You may want to remove your trigger group and clean it well with some Gun Scrubber and try that. It worked for the one I was working on--- No more doubles. Let me know if this cures your problem.

These may help also: http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/fieldstripassemble/maintfieldstrip2.html

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/striphtml/detailtriggergroup4.html




Pat S.

PAC 762
February 27, 2005, 01:52 PM
Pat- Thanks for the tip. I think I'm going to wait to see what the CMP says before I touch the trigger group. I'm worried about the legal ramifications.

(Stupid NFA regs :cuss: )

Pat S
February 27, 2005, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't recommend disassembling the trigger group, only removing and cleaning it up to see if this cures you problem. I did an online search when I was having a problem with mine and it seems that this is a fairly common problem with these if they get oil on that surface. Good luck!



Pat S.

Onmilo
February 27, 2005, 11:22 PM
Worn or overhoned hammer hooks.
Broken or chipped sear surfaces, either or both can cause an M1 to double or triple.
You can send your trigger group back to the CMP for replacement or they will send you new parts to correct the problems.
The trigger housing assemblies are not at all difficult to repair.

Dienekes
February 28, 2005, 03:23 AM
Onmilo said it. Usually it comes down to worn hammers and sears. I have had this occur about three times over the years and it has always come down to that in the end. After all, these rifles are fifty plus years old.

Disassembly of the trigger housing group is not that difficult with proper instructions. The best are in Hatcher's "Book of the Garand" which is still the best single volume on the rifle for my money.

Changing out the hammer and sear are well within your abilities. Beware of worn and bogus parts--best to order them from some known source such as Fulton Armory. As suggested you might just want to send the whole housing assembly in to them and have them do the trigger job at the same time. I sent them one a couple of years ago and thought they helped it considerably.

BTW it sure shows you how little control you have with a full .30 caliber round in full auto in a standard weight rifle, doesn't it?

444
February 28, 2005, 09:04 AM
"Disassembly of the trigger housing group is not that difficult with proper instructions. The best are in Hatcher's "Book of the Garand" "

I suggest you go here: http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/striphtml/detailtriggergroup.html
If there are better instructions than these, they better come with someone to take it apart for you. :)

cracked butt
February 28, 2005, 09:07 AM
Was it really cold out when you shot it?
My M1 which behaves normally, doubled on me when I was shooting it a week ago in weather that was int he single digits. I had problems with nearly every one of my semiautos that day in one form or another.

30Cal
February 28, 2005, 01:25 PM
This also comes up sometimes when the stock is replaced.

PAC 762
February 28, 2005, 07:58 PM
Thanks everyone. The CMP responded very promptly and told me to send them my trigger group and they would send a replacement. I'm going to do that.

FWIW, It was not very cold.... maybe 35-40 degrees.

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