[Lennyjoe]

Anyone use these bullets for hunting deer, hogs or whatnot?

Reason I ask is cause I'm looking for a good performing bullet for my -06 and got a good deal on a box of them.

I want to stay with the 150-165gr range for Whitetail or Mulies.

For Elk I'm gonna load up some 180gr Partition Golds.

[Dan Morris]

Lenny, I'd try several makes and see which one your gun likes the best. Nothing wrong with game kings, it just so happens that my Mod 70's like
Hornadys.JMO
Dan

[H&Hhunter]

Lenny,

It's a good bullet for what you intend to use it for. The only thing I'd be carefull with is on BIG hogs it'll kill 99.9% of all the rest of them piggies lickitdy split.

[Dr.Rob]

165 Game King is my fave bullet for deer/antelope/elk/bear. the factory load has more downrange knockdown power at 300 yds than the 180gr bullets.

I've had ONE mild jacket seperation in 20 some years of hunting.

[Lennyjoe]

Funny thing is, so far the 150gr Winchester PP over 55gr (I think cause I dont have my reloading book at work) of IMR 4350 puts out quarter size groups at 100yds from my Savage 110 30-06.

Not bad for accuracy but I would rather use a better bullet than the Winchester.

I will load some up Game Kings this week and run them thru my rifle to see how they group.

The plan is to try Hornady, Nosler and Swift in 165 and 180 to see which loads work the best.

I plan on 165's for deer and possibly hogs if I can find them in Arizona and 180's for Elk.

[longrifleman]

I've been using that bullet in an '06 on whitetails for several years and haven't had a problem yet. All the shots have been through and throughs so I haven't recovered a bullet but the exit wounds have been what they should be. A few have went through ribs or shoulder blade on the way out and the hole as measured with my precision pinkie finger were .62456734198".

Most were DRT. I've also used the 180 gr and can't tell any difference. They only get so dead. Most shots around here are less than 200 yds and 100 is more common. Extreme downrange performance isn't an issue.

[Art Eatman]

I've killed several whitetails with the 165 HPBT. They work. If they hit bone at close range, the exit wounds have been near fist-size.

My only comparison between Sierra's 150-, 165- and 180-grain bullets have been depth of crater on a steel plate at 500 yards. The 150, not much. The 165, maybe 1/16"+. The 180 actually made a small moon-crater with a bit of splashback, and twice the diameter and depth of the 165.

I'd figure the 180 GameKing as the best for penetration of a larger animal. According to the Sierra folks, the 150 flatbase holds together better for MV around 3,000 than does the boat-tail.

Art

[Lennyjoe]

Right now I'm using IMR 4350.

Anyone got any better intel better powders and the 165 Game King?

[Smokey Joe]

Been using the Sierra 165 gr. Gameking for many yrs. Every deer I've hit reasonably with one has gone down like a poleaxed steer. I use the boattails with the lead point, not the HP version. Decently accurate for a hunting bullet (1.5" group @ 100yd all day every day). I set my 'scope for a 2" high POI at 100 yd, that way I'm about on at 200 yd, and I just don't fool with the range to a deer when hunting; I know the load, bullet, and gun will do the job at any reasonable woods range. (That wouldn't work out on the prairie, but that's not where I hunt.)

Powder I've been using is IMR 4350. A good powder for 165gr bullets in the '06. Load varies with the rifle; start with the starting load and work up toward the max by 1 grain increments. When you find the most promising load, bracket it by .5 gr in either direction, and vary the load by .1 gr. Putzy, yes, but this'll fine-tune the loading for your own gun.

Enjoy the search. The quest is part of the destination.

[Lennyjoe]

I picked up the hollow point version. Didnt see any lead point ones when I was shopping around Sportsmans Warehouse.

Anyway, I loaded 5 each with 55, 56 and 57gr of IMR 4350 and will chrono them this weekend and check for accuracy. If all goes well I plan on fine tuning the load that provides the best accuracy.

[Art Eatman]

I've always used 4064 behind my 150s, so I just cut back a bit when I loaded the 165s.

Anybody ever used H414 behind a 180? I loaded a box, but haven't sat down yet to test them.

Art

[Smokey Joe]

Hollow point Sierra 165 gr. works; but most of my experience has been with the lead point BT. Kilt one deer with the HP @ very close range and the bullet never had a chance to open up; there was a .30 entry hole and a .30 exit hole. There was also a .30 hole thru the heart, but it took the deer about 50 feet of walking to notice that it was dead.

The boattails aren't for ballistic reasons; it's that they enter the case necks easier when reloading.

IMR 4064 works well in the '06; used it when I first started out reloading "a few moons ago." Don't have any recent data.

RL 19 works also, but besides running through a pound of it my thinking has been "Why mess with a good thing?" so I went back to IMR 4350.

[GooseGestapo]

The 165gr Sierra is an excellent bullet in the '06. About as good a combination as you'll get for 90+ % of your shooting and hunting needs.

I've gotten best results from several '06's from IMR-4350 and 165's.

The only other powders I'd really consider are H4350, RL-15, H414, and IMR-4064.

There are a LOT of other powders that will do well in the '06. Only problem is there are SO MANY, but most will do no better than those mentioned above.

For max velocity, H4350 is IT. IMR4350 seems to be a little bit more accurate, but not enough to be concerned with. Rifles preference will dictate which one. Not to mention lot# to lot# variation.

For the 180's, RL-22 has been unexcelled in the 3 '06's I've tried it in. My favorite for accuracy has been the Speer 180gr flat-base, over 60.0gr of RL-22. I get right at 2,800fps. Only about 100fps below the .300WinMags I've chrono'd. Not enough difference to be concerned about.

You may also want to try RL-19. But the lot# I used got nowhere near the velocity and accuracy I've seen claimed. 2,650fps with max load was best I could get and accuracy was nothing to be excited about.

ART Eatman: I've used a little bit of H414 and 180gr bullet. It performed well, close enough to IMR-4350 that they are almost interchangeable. 55.0gr should be the "sweet spot", for around 2,700fps.

My "formula" loads for the '06:

150gr bullets:
RL-15; 52.0-53.0 depending on rifles preference. OAL set to 3.275".

165gr bullets:
IMR-4350; 56.5 to 58.0gr (to rifles preference) 2,775 to 2850fps

180gr bullets:
RL-22; 58.0-60.0 (rifles preference).
I use 180 Nosler Part. for hunting larger game (elk), Speers or Sierra for lesser species (seldom, I usually use less gun for deer, a .22cf or my various lever actions or .257Robt. or 7mm-08).

If limited to an '06, for really big stuff such as bears or such, use the 180gr Fail-safe or Barnes TS over 58.0gr of RL-22.

[Lennyjoe]

Good info Goose.

I have been conteplating buying some IMR 4064 and giving it a try but so far am happy with the IMR 4350. My buddy uses it in his .270 as well.

Hopefully if I get drawn for an Elk hunt this year I will be working up good 180gr loads for them.

[Art Eatman]

I got started in reloading as child labor for my uncle, as I've said; this was back in 1950. All that was readily available back then was Hercules' HiVel #2 and #3, and the Dupont IMR series. Powder prices had just climbed to around $1.75 a pound.IIRC, HiVel was a single-based powder that burned hotter than the Dupont.

I was told to use 52.5 grains of 4064 behind the 150-grain Hornady spire point (the older, straight-taper cone) and I dutifully did so.

What has always struck me as odd is that the load has always given good accuracy, no matter what brand or shape of 150-grain bullet, what primer or what Lot #! Or, for that matter, what rifle in '06 that I've used. :) Sorta weird, when you think about it.

Good load data, Goose. Thanks. I'm getting so stove up that I'm a riding or sitting hunter, these days. Riding has never been ethically comforting to me, although I've done it; sitting in a stand bores me. Not sure what I'm gonna set out to do for deer hunting, any more...

Art

[Lennyjoe]

Just got back from shooting the Gameking thru a chronograph.

First load was;
165gr Sierra Gameking
56.5gr IMR 4350
Winchester brass (tumbled and trimmed)
WLR primer
C.O.L. 3.250
2937 fps
3161 fpe

Second load was;
165gr Sierra Gameking
57.5gr IMR 4350
Winchester brass (tumbled and trimmed)
WLR primer
C.O.L. 3.250
2975 fps
3243 fpe

Third load was;
165gr Sierra Gameking
58.0gr IMR 4350
Winchester brass (tumbled and trimmed)
WLR primer
C.O.L. 3.250
3005 fps
3309 fpe

All were 5 shot groups.

Shooting platform was a Savage 110 left hand bolt rifle without the Accu-trigger (mine is and older model) and a Burris 3.9x40 scope.

Temp was 80 degrees and sunny with about a 15 knot head wind. Shot group ranged from 1.02" for the first load, .65" for the second load and .95" for the third load.

The 57.5gr load was by far the most accurate load of the three. I forgot the camera today for pics but overall I am impressed with the second load.

[Art Eatman]

Thanx, Lennyhoe; good info.

Going back to The American Rifleman of 1940, forward to modern times: I don't think I've ever run across anything written that's contrary to the idea that the best accuracy comes from a load that is some one-half to one grain below maximum pressure.

"Dunno why; it just IS."

:), Art

[Matt G]

I've killed several deer with the Sierra GameKing, and a couple specifically with the 165 BTHP GK. All were DRT.

This is a premo bullet, plain and simple. The HP is a little "harder" than the SP, with only a tiny loss of ballistic coefficient to the SP. That said, you needn't worry about tip deformation with the HP.

I had loved this bullet so much, that when I began reloading for my .300 Win Mag years back, I thought I would use that same bullet. Oops. When pushing it in excess of 3000 fps, it gets a little flimsier, said Sierra. (I was hunting elk.) No problem with elk, or even bear or moose with it out of the '06, but out of a Magnum, I needed to move up to the heavier 180 grain bullet. I did. Because I also had an iron-sighted '06, I started loading 180s in my .30-06 (the slightly more arc'd trajectory didn't bother me under 200 yards).

The 165 is a nice compromise weight, and is close enough to match weight (168g) that you can pretty much just load to the same velocity interchangebly.

I was reared up believing that there was no powder for the .30-'06 with the 165g bullet but 4064. In the early '90's or so, my father tried 4350, and we found that his Ruger M77 shot it better, so we shifted loads. In the late '90's, when we started playing with magnums, we had some RL19 lying around, and found it works, too. IMHO, the 4350 is pretty much the way to go, though.

[Lennyjoe]

IMHO, the 4350 is pretty much the way to go, though.

So far thats the only powder I have used.

Funny thing is, I don't feel the need to try any other powder cause I'm happy with the performance I'm getting with it out of my -06.

[Bottom Gun]

I've used the Sierra 165 BTHP in my .30-06 for over 25 years. It is an accurate bullet and performs well. It is my first choice for deer.
I have never had to shoot an animal more than once with these bullets.

I use IMR 4064 powder for my loads. I load one grain under the max load listed in the Lyman book because I never push a rifle to its limit.
This load will consistently produce sub MOA groups provided I do my part.

[Lennyjoe]

Bottomgun, have you tried IMR 4350?

[Bottom Gun]

Lennyjoe,

No I haven't used 4350. I've tried IMR 3031 and IMR 4895 in the past but found that IMR 4064 works best in my .30-06 rifles.
I have also loaded some .30-06 with Win 748 (which I use for .308 and .223) and had very good results.

[Lennyjoe]

I've been contemplating trying the 4064 but since I can get .64" group out of the 4350 I dont know if its worth it. I'd hate to buy another pound of powder and see it not get used.

Ah, what the heck. I'll pick some up this weekend and give it a try. Guess you can never have too much powder laying around. ;)

[Bottom Gun]

Lennyjoe,

You may not be able to improve on that accuracy so if you are satisfied with that powder, why bother with anything else unless you think it may lower your chamber pressure?

When I select a powder to use, I try to strike a happy medium between velocity and chamber pressure and always lean toward the lower pressure powder because I can vary group size by varying seating depth and powder charges.

[Lennyjoe]

True.

The manual shows the IMR 4350 to be lower in chamber pressure with 165 grainers than the IMR 4064.

Not saying that that is true for my rifle and rounds but I dont have a way to check for sure.

Either way, I think Im gonna stick with the IMR 4350 since I have a couple of lbs of it and my reloading buddy uses it in his .270 as well.

[Bottom Gun]

Good choice.
Have you tried that powder with other bullet weights?

[Lennyjoe]

Just some Winchester 150gr Power Point bullets which were pretty darn accurate too.

I'm gonna load some Swift A-Frame 180 grain loads pretty soon and see how they perform with the 4350 powder.

[Bottom Gun]

I haven't tried the A Frames. When I go up to 180 or heavier, I use Nosler Partitions.

I also load the 125 Speer TNT HP. They are accurate and a devastating varmint bullet. The Sierra 110 HP are good varmint bullets too but can be hard to find.

[Lennyjoe]

I actually thought about loading up some 125's for varmints but ended up buying a 22-250 instead.

Partitions work ok for you?

[Bottom Gun]

I loaded up some 180 & 200 gr Partitions. They are slightly less accurate in my rifles than the 165 HPBT, but still adequate. The 180 gr is slightly more accurate than the 200gr.
I've shot elk with both and they both work well so I will most likely lean toward the 180's if I decide to use the '06 for elk again.

The reason I say that is because three years ago I started using a .338 with 210 gr Partitions for elk because they are so incredibly tough. To date I've shot two with the .338 and it just knocked them silly. It really puts them down with authority.

I use a .22 cal for varmints too only I use a .223. When I need more distance, I use the '06. I like the 125 TNT's because I can really reach out with them. Far beyond the range of a .22. I found the 125's stabilize a little better than the 110's which I used to shoot quite a bit.

[Lennyjoe]

I've shot elk with both and they both work well
Any expansion issues? Complete penetration?

[Bottom Gun]

I really can't say anything about the expansion because I've yet to recover one. They do cut a large hole though.
I normally try for a behind the shoulder lung shot. The 200 gr Partition punched clear though at 200 yd. The 180 gr at 300+ yd stayed somewhere in the far lung but it was raining that morning when I was field dressing it so I didn't take the time to search for it. I went back that afternoon after the weather cleared to search for it but the coyotes had already been at the gut pile and I couldn't find it.
The .338 210 gr also both punched through at 150 yd and a quartering shot at 75 yd (I got lucky that day).
Overall, I'm very pleased with the Partitions.

In contrast, on our hunt three years ago, my partner was using Federal nylon tipped factory ammo in his 7MM and ended up shooting an elk five times at various ranges because the bullets were punching through without expanding. Very strange. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been watching it happen.
He later shot a coyote through the lungs at 200+ yards with the same ammo. That dog showed no sign of being hit and ran full bore for over 100 yd then suddenly dropped. I never saw anything like it before.

[Lennyjoe]

The Partitions are just a bit cheaper price wise than the A-frame. Not that I would go cheap on hunting bullets but when your working up loads it can get pricey.

I will take a good hard look at the Partitions. Thanks for all the info.

[Bottom Gun]

You're welcome.
FYI, the Paritions are available in more than one configuration in certain bullet weights. For example, the 180's are available in a spire point and a blunt nose. They have different points of impact in my rifles.

[Lennyjoe]

I'd think the blunt nose would not expand as fast as the spire point.

[Bottom Gun]

Maybe, maybe not. There are lots of other factors involved such as speed, jacket thickness, etc. The only real way to find out is to shoot them into something. For big tough anilmals like elk, I would prefer the slower expanding bullet.

I mentioned shape because some rifles will not function with all shapes. My AR10 is a good example of that. It was designed for pointed bullets and is almost guaranteed to jam with blunt shapes such as round nose or flat point.

That was my reasoning for choosing the spire point because I didn't want to mess with two different styles of 180 gr Partitions.

If I ever have lots of time on my hands, it might be fun to experiment with penetration of different shapes.

[Lennyjoe]

Dont think I'd have a problem with the blunt nose feeding in my Savage so I will most likely give them a try. I'm with you on the slower expanding bullets for elk.

I got turned down last year but this year am putting in for rifle and bow. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to hunt the wampiti.

[Bottom Gun]

Good luck on your draw.
I'll be very lucky to get a tag this year. Ive had four rifle tags in the last five years and filled them all so I doubt my luck will hold this year.
I guess we'll see though because since we have to go back to fronting the permit fee this year that may lessen the competition a bit. (I hope)

[Lennyjoe]

Hopefully we will be drawn this year. Do you ATV, horseback or manual labor your hunts?

Back to the bullets, I noticed that the manual calls for a C.O.L. of 3.185" for the 165gr Sierra. I tried them at that setting and the accuracy suffered. When I came out to 3.200" which is .010 off of my rifle lands the group came in conciderably. I reloaded 40 more rounds at the 3.200" and am going to sight the rifle in at 200 yards hopefully this weekend.

[Bottom Gun]

We use ATV for scouting and for game retrieval. We've made some small trailers with boat winches which are perfect for hauling elk out. Here's a pic.

OAL will affect accuracy quite a bit which is why I always note it and stay with it if possible once I establish a load. Crimping makes a difference too. Some people say you must crimp for autoloaders but whenever I do my group size goes wild. Consequently, I don't crimp rifle cartridges.

Good luck at the range. Let us know how you do.

[Lennyjoe]

I dont crimp either.

Nice trailer there.