[LAR-15]

NRA MYTH #8: ASSAULT WEAPONS, AND HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES THAT WERE BANNED AT THE SAME TIME, ARE NEEDED FOR SELF-DEFENSE

Response: False. As explained above, assault weapons utilize military features useful in combat, but which have no civilian purpose. Assault weapons are exceedingly dangerous if used in self defense, because the bullets many of the weapons fire are designed to pass through humans and will pass through structures, and therefore pose a heightened risk of hitting innocent bystanders. As Jim Pasco, executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police has explained: “An AK-47 fires a military round. In a conventional home with dry-wall walls, I wouldn’t be surprised if it went through six of them.” No one would want a bullet fired in self defense to penetrate a home’s walls, where it could strike bystanders in neighboring homes.

High capacity magazines containing more than 10 rounds, which were also banned as part of the Federal Assault Weapons Act, are also not useful for self defense, as law enforcement expert Leonard J. Supenski has testified:

“The typical self-defense scenario in a home does not require more ammunition than is available in a standard 6-shot revolver or 6-10 round semiautomatic pistol. In fact, because of potential harm to others in the household, passersby, and bystanders, too much firepower is a hazard. Indeed, in most self-defense scenarios, the tendency is for defenders to keep firing until all bullets have been expended.”

Assault weapons were designed for military use. They have no legitimate use as self defense weapons.


SOURCE: Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence

[PMDW]

I use a 30 round magazine in my "Select Fire Home Defense Rifle". The more the merrier. I'd have a C-Mag in it if I could spare the cash.

[El Tejon]

O.K., Chief Wiggum, then you po-po can go back to revolvers. :)

[Daemon688]

They're right about rifle rounds penetrating through multiple layers of drywall. But who's to say that 6-10 rounds is enough? How many cops only carry one full magazine? Will you even hit them in 10? Are they on PCP or in such a mental state that 6-10 rounds won't stop them?

So, all pistols should have no restrictions regarding capacity. Also, weapons like the Glock 18, MP5, and Uzi's should have no restrictions at all. After all these weapons are less likely to over penetrate.

They can take away my AK if they replace it with a un-neutered MP5.

[beerslurpy]

What is self defense, if not combat? Wouldnt the most logical choice of self defense weapon be the weapon best suited to killing your attackers?

Also, police are barred from using deadly force in almost every case except self defense and "emminent danger" type situations, so by the same token they shouldnt need more than 6 shots. Actually, police should get one shot each since there are so many of them.

btw- brady is full of BS and will continue to be irrelevant as long as pro-gunners keep winning elections

To answer the original question: I need to find some 8 rounders for my saiga.

[LAR-15]

The only reason they even support having one round for self defense is because a huge majority of the public supports gun ownership for self defense and they would easily be tagged as being out of step w/ the sheeple.

Besides 10 round magazines are less reliable than standard cap magazines in most cases if the gun was designed for more than 10.

[Standing Wolf]

The quantity of ammunition I carry, like the make, model, serial number, and caliber of my carry gun, is my business, not government's.

[ctdonath]

There's this little issue of not having what you need when you need it, be it the 1st, 2nd, 11th, or 31st round.

[LAR-15]

They originally wanted a six round mag limit, got stuck with 10 at the Federal level and now have to justify it.

"10 is plenty, heck more than enough."

Edited to add when the NYC PD switched over to Glock 9mms the high brass had their magazines blocked to 10 rounds to cut down on spray and pray shootings.

[JPM70535]

There is one small grain of truth in the anti-gun rantings of the Brady bunch. For an urban self defense weapon, a rifle (be it an assault Ak47, M-16 or a garden variety Rem 742 bolt action using Full jacketed bullets ) will most certainly not be stopped by a sheet of drywall or 5 or 6 . All this really means is that if you use a rifle you had best know what is available for a backstop since responsibility for each round fired is yours from start to finish. If a rifle is all you have for self defense,by all means use it,. IMO there are far better choices for most close encounters in the form of almost any handgun loaded with teacup sized hollowpoints, or even a shotgun loaded with #4 buck.

With respect to the idea that no more than standard capacity pistols or 6 shot revolvers is necessary for self defense, B.S. In a perfect world, all of us would be able to stop a BG with 1 or 2 rounds placed CM at 21 feet, and a 6 shot revolver would be more than enough to get the job done.

Now, throw in the stress induced by the situation ( BG starts shooting back, wife starts screaming etc. and the odds of that 1 or 2 shot stop goes out the window. Read my lips "YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MANY UNINTERRUPTED SHOTS AVAILABLE IN A GUNFIGHT"

My personal favorite loading is to have the first round up the spout be a Glaser or mag safe, followed by as many Silvertips as the gun will hold.

[deej]

As Jim Pasco, executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police has explained: “An AK-47 fires a military round. In a conventional home with dry-wall walls, I wouldn’t be surprised if it went through six of them.”


But but but...FOP supported HR218!

[geekWithA.45]

What, suppressing fire has no defensive utility?

'The hell's wrong with them?

[mbs357]

Any persone worth shooting once is worth shooting 30+1 times.

[DelayedReaction]

Having the Brady Campaign deciding a maximum clip size is like having PETA decide how much beef I can eat.

[The_Antibubba]

ALL OF THEM!!!!



Until I hear clickclickclickclickclick

:evil:

[peacefuljeffrey]

Or having AARP decide how good a driver's vision has to be to pass the test. :rolleyes:

-Jeffrey

[cracked butt]

I wonder what the Brady campaign's opinion is about having a fixed bayonet just in case that magazine runs dry?

Ahhh what am I thinking, their opinion doesn't matter to me anyhow :evil:

[Clean97GTI]

how many for self-defense?

As many as I can carry. Better to not need and have than to need and not have.

That being said, my main carry piece sports a 14rd magazine full of .40S&W.

[StopTheGrays]

Barney only needed one and that was in his pocket. :neener:

[dcloudy777@aol.com]

PMDW... I gotta ask... you've got a class III rifle and can't come up with a Beta C? You've got that much in the tax stamp, man!! :p

DanO

PS... I've got an AR Beta C... wanna trade? :evil:

[Shovelhead]

How many?

-----------------------------------------
ALL OF THEM!!!!

Until I hear clickclickclickclickclick


Enough so I never have to hear clickclickclickclickclickclick. :what:

[dasmi]

Until the threat is no longer a threat. Easy answer.

[mjb]

I am employed as a security officer, and I am certified by the state of Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission in revolver, semi-auto pistol, and shotgun for private security. I remember last August when I was in the shotgun class that the instructor, who is a police officer telling us that the more rounds the better. I am trained to have as much ammunition as possible by the same organization that certifies the police and security officers in the state and then I hear a political statement like this. I think a police officer like that should be sent to a totalitarian country where they belong. :barf:

[GEM]

"I agree and will sign the AWB or support it, if it is placed on my desk. After all, we just need O/U shotguns to hunt birdies"

This statement was agreed to by

a. GWB
b. John Kerry
c. The New Attorney General
d. All of the above

Stop the presses, we have folks on this board who would ban the evil 50 BMG!

[PMDW]

PMDW... I gotta ask... you've got a class III rifle and can't come up with a Beta C? You've got that much in the tax stamp, man!!

You spend $5,400, and then try to find another $200. It's winter, my normal job is seasonal, and what little money I make from being an arms dealer goes towards car payments (just blew another $3,200 on that). I is teh p00r. :)

Edit: Another thing thing - I can't shoot my $5,400 gun. Can't afford the ammo. Kinda funny, really.

[nico]

I wonder what the Brady campaign's opinion is about having a fixed bayonet just in case that magazine runs dry?
bayonets are fine, as long as they're attached with duct tape. It's the LUG that makes them evil :neener:

[VARifleman]

:D nico

GEM, is the answer D?

Just remember the loudest sound in a gun fight is from yours..."click"... :what: :what: :what:

I would carry as many as I can... :rant on: but apparently I'm responsible enough for my actions to be charged as an adult (>18) but not responsible enough to own a handgun...hmm...something doesn't seem right about that to me. Perhaps just because I'm 19, and worried something will happen to me here at college? No...there's no reason I need to protect myself...except that we have an inept police department (I've seen plenty of their targets at the range), they're slow, and they won't take responsibility for my safety since they won't allow me to protect myself... :cuss: :rant off:

[Too Many Choices!?]

As much as I can carry without it becoming obvious.....If I am carrying so much as to be leaning to one side, it might impair my shooting/reloading :evil:

[PMDW]

If I am carrying so much as to be leaning to one side, it might impair my shooting/reloading

No. It just means you need to add some more to the other side. :)

[mbs357]

If you have enough ammo on one side to make you lean, I'd compensate with travel sized roast beef.
Individually wrapped.
...man, that's a good idea.

[Walter]

How long do you want to fight them back before you run out
of ammo and they kill you?

When are people going to learn that the "gun" or the "magazine" is
not the problem, that it is the brain behind the finger that pulls the
trigger that causes all these senseless shootings.

I remember being on a hill in the Arizona one night in Feb, '69.
We had pushed the NVA off and taken the hill, but we had expended
a lot of ammo. After a count, we had about 50 rounds per man,
with only a hundred rounds per machine gun. Not good.
We got lucky that night, and they did not hit us back. At dawn, two
CH-46 helo's came in carrying much ammo, and other supplies.
I sort of subconsciously decided on that hill that I would NEVER
get caught low on ammo again.

So. How many rounds is "enough"? For me, a thousand rounds more
than everybody else.

Walter

[nico]

but apparently I'm responsible enough for my actions to be charged as an adult (>18) but not responsible enough to own a handgun...hmm...something doesn't seem right about that to me
I completely agree (I'm almost 22 for the record). An even crazier thought to chew on: the law allows you to take a job (or be forced into the job if the government deems necessary) where you're given NFA weapons AND handguns with ::gasp:: 15 round magazines and sent to kill people, yet you're not yet mature enough to buy (not possess) a handgun or drink alcohol. Although, I must say, when I turned 21, I experienced an epiphany that suddenly made me more mature. . . or maybe it was just my blood alcohol content :D

[R.H. Lee]

The more the better. I would really like to have enough to lay down suppressive fire while I beat feet in the event of multiple attackers but I'm limited to 10 rd mags here in CA. That's the only thing that bothers me about a revolver, it's difficult to carry spare ammo.

[foghornl]

Enough so that I walk away with at least one unfired round.

[LeonCarr]

When I go to the range, I always make sure I have enough "traveling" ammo for the trip home :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[The Rabbi]

Well, first off, Hummers have no legitimate use outside of the military too. They are big and use lots of gas and are dangerous when they careen madly into other vehicles. And yet I see lots of them around here. Usage is no justification for marketibility.
Second, a .357 magnum will penetrate 5-6 sheets of drywall as well. Actually most rounds will. But responsible gun owners know that and act appropriately. I.e., it is our business, not Joe Bureaucrat's.
Third, what is the difference between one 30-rd magazine and 3 10-rd mags? Is it really going to make a difference? Are there any cases where someone would have survived had there only been 10-rounders? No, of course not. I dont know why Brady is fixated on 30 rd mags.

[Vernal45]

15 +1 in the gun, and a spare 15 rounder on my belt. Glock 20

[Nehemiah Scudder]

Isn't the need for suppressive fire self defence?

[HI express]

I think we can agree that a man(person) can mainly speak from his own personal experiences, right? After that, it is opinion, hearsay, conjecture, and theory.

Then when you have personally had a gun in your face with you maybe having a second or so to make a decision to get shot or giving up and the perps threatening to rape and kill your wife after they shoot you...would you rather have a pistol with limited rounds or something that might give you an edge in surviving should you decide to defend yourself?

Take this with a grain of salt 'cause you don't know me...but I have been in two situations where there were 3 guys with guns against me...and there was another incident where on the job, I was faced with 15 BGs who wanted to do me in(unknown amount of weapons...two guns that I saw.)

The incident with the three guys? I was not armed.
The incident with the 15 gang bangers? I had a seven shot pistol.
In either case, my life was in their hands....anybody else want to be there, then tell me only a limited magazine is all you need to protect your lives and the lives of the ones you love? I'll tell you what the thoughts are that go on in your mind...."Today is a good day to die."

It's your life, you choose what you carry, if you carry, but don't tell people who get in harm's way what they should carry until you have your life in someone else's hands.

[VARifleman]

Good post Hi express, welcome to the forum. I'm glad you made it out of those situations in one piece.

[Joey2]

WALTER. A hill in the Arizona? I called them knolls. If you want hills go to the Que Son Mtns. I think you were probabley in the 5thMar. like me and did a lot of "hill" climbing in the Que Sons. How about the flat lands of Goi Noi Island?

Back to the topic. I use a revolver as my home intruder defense. If it goes beyong that I have the other "toys".

[larry_minn]

While I often only have 7rds of .380 on my person that is IMO only enough to allow me to get away from a single threat. I am lazy and feel that the time in my life when people SPACIFICLY wanted to do me harm for my work is over. Few threats were ever even hinted at after the events.
That said if for any reason I feel that nudge I load up heavy and there is always a 12 guage behind door and AR by computer as backup. Glock with spare mag/light/phone by bed. Doors locked (two locks per door/solid core put in by ME) Exterior alarms before anyone gets close to house. I sleep very well.

[Black Snowman]

What if you're trying to defend yourself from a professed traitor who is in power in the government actively trying to turn the nation to communism and deny the poeple their rights but keeps multiple armed body guards?

I'm going to have to say arming every person who holds the future of their children and this nation dear with every weapon we can afford to muster might barely be enough . . .

Making sure the military is on the side of liberty would be a good idea too.

With what they get away with now, I'd hate to think what the government would do if they managed to disarm the populace. . . :uhoh: :what:

They day the government no longer fears the people, is the day we have lost all of our liberty.

[artherd]

What if you're trying to defend yourself from a professed traitor who is in power in the government actively trying to turn the nation to communism and deny the poeple their rights but keeps multiple armed body guards?


Then I'd say that Barretts should be the minimum caliber for CCW! ;)

http://dreamwithyoureyeswideopen.com/7400/M82A1-Ben3.jpg


As for a round limit for SD? I'd say a 6,000round drum is a good START. I might need more.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/phalanx.jpg

[ReadyontheRight]

The first rule in a gunfight - make sure your ammo cannot penetrate 1/2" sheetrock. :rolleyes: