Grayrock
March 9, 2003, 11:51 PM
Doing a comparison on these 2 pistols. Anyone know how much the mini-cougar weighs? Also need to know tall and wide the firestar mini 45 is. TIAFYH.
MiniCougar .45 and Firestar Mini .45 stats
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Grayrock
March 10, 2003, 04:14 PM
OK- I found the weight for the Mini-Cougar. Any help with the Firestorm Mini-.45 would be appreciated.
Grayrock
March 10, 2003, 04:18 PM
Mybad- I meant to say FireStorm- NOT Firestar. Sorry. I need the info for the FireSTORM Mini-45.:p
BevrFevr
March 10, 2003, 04:35 PM
Do an internet search for argentina and bersa and firestorm 45 and you will find a web page in spanish that has every thing you need. Been there and sort of read it. A couple of Muy Beuno's in there.
I would give more help but I'm headin to lunch! good luck -t
I would give more help but I'm headin to lunch! good luck -t
10-Ring
March 10, 2003, 04:50 PM
Of your two choices, the Mini Cougar wins my vote.
BevrFevr
March 10, 2003, 06:26 PM
3.6 bbl
6.7 length
27 oz.
7+1
that's all I can find.
I also have to doubt that the two guns are in the same league. I had cosidered getting one of these now I'm backing off. Until more people have em.
-bevr
6.7 length
27 oz.
7+1
that's all I can find.
I also have to doubt that the two guns are in the same league. I had cosidered getting one of these now I'm backing off. Until more people have em.
-bevr
Handy
March 11, 2003, 01:38 AM
Another bizarre comparison question! Yippee.
The Beretta Cougar is a large, rotating barrel DA/SA pistol with a slide safety lever and an alloy frame. Aside from height and lenght, it is pretty much the size of a Beretta 92. The "Mini" version has some of the grip and slide/barrel cropped, but the weapon is very wide all over. $550 or so.
The Mini Firestorm is a 1911 pattern compact made by Llama. SA only, single stack mag. I refer you to the thread on badly jamming weapons. $275.
How did you come up with this odd couple?
The Beretta Cougar is a large, rotating barrel DA/SA pistol with a slide safety lever and an alloy frame. Aside from height and lenght, it is pretty much the size of a Beretta 92. The "Mini" version has some of the grip and slide/barrel cropped, but the weapon is very wide all over. $550 or so.
The Mini Firestorm is a 1911 pattern compact made by Llama. SA only, single stack mag. I refer you to the thread on badly jamming weapons. $275.
How did you come up with this odd couple?
BevrFevr
March 11, 2003, 05:03 PM
Which firesorm are you talking about?
BevrFevr
March 11, 2003, 05:04 PM
The stats I gave you are for this one.
-bevr
-bevr
Grayrock
March 11, 2003, 05:23 PM
The Firestorm in which I am interested would be the latter. See also:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=7850548
It is obviously NOT the 1911 style. It looks nice, but I can find no real info on it.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=7850548
It is obviously NOT the 1911 style. It looks nice, but I can find no real info on it.
Handy
March 11, 2003, 05:35 PM
Sorry, "mini Firestorm .45" is also the name of the Llama made pistol.
The gun in the auction is a descendant of the excellent Argentinian Bersa Thunder 9 series, albeit in .45. The Thunder was a VERY good wondernine, this one should be decent.
I would guess this Firestorm a fair bit smaller the bulky Beretta.
The gun in the auction is a descendant of the excellent Argentinian Bersa Thunder 9 series, albeit in .45. The Thunder was a VERY good wondernine, this one should be decent.
I would guess this Firestorm a fair bit smaller the bulky Beretta.
Akurat
March 11, 2003, 05:50 PM
The FireStorm "Mini Compact" is the 1911 style, made by Llama...:barf:
The FireStorm 'Mini 45' is the good one, made by Bersa. I have the 9mm version and it has really impressed me. The 45 is next on my get list.
Confusing, I know. Why Bersa would want to collaborate on a brand name with Llama I will never understand. Why put your reputation in jepoardy by branding your guns the same as a low quality outfit like Llama?
The FireStorm 'Mini 45' is the good one, made by Bersa. I have the 9mm version and it has really impressed me. The 45 is next on my get list.
Confusing, I know. Why Bersa would want to collaborate on a brand name with Llama I will never understand. Why put your reputation in jepoardy by branding your guns the same as a low quality outfit like Llama?
BevrFevr
March 12, 2003, 02:09 PM
When I found the page before It was a pretty comprehensive review albiet in spanish. They had function and accuracy tests and also had width dimensions which I can't seem to find anywhere else.
What initially attracted me was the compact size and the very ergo grips. It seemed very concealable but It's hard for me to guess the wieght and balance loaded. I could not test the trigger as the dealer had the hammer zip tied.
As far as I remember(from the review) the pistol is not a range gun by any stretch but would be plenty accurate for social encounters within 21'. It didn't seem to have a problem feeding hollow points but would benefit from a break in period.
I've read complaints about the triggers but I rarely trust what I read except from a few sources. I know for sure that a pistol with 200 rounds through it is usually better than one brand new complete with factory grime.
Good luck and give us a report either way you go. -bevr
What initially attracted me was the compact size and the very ergo grips. It seemed very concealable but It's hard for me to guess the wieght and balance loaded. I could not test the trigger as the dealer had the hammer zip tied.
As far as I remember(from the review) the pistol is not a range gun by any stretch but would be plenty accurate for social encounters within 21'. It didn't seem to have a problem feeding hollow points but would benefit from a break in period.
I've read complaints about the triggers but I rarely trust what I read except from a few sources. I know for sure that a pistol with 200 rounds through it is usually better than one brand new complete with factory grime.
Good luck and give us a report either way you go. -bevr
The Mighty Beagle
March 12, 2003, 09:08 PM
I would not hesitate to buy the FIRESTORM based on my limited experience with my new Mini .40. Yes they are a bit rough around the edges and a break-in definitely is in order, but mine works nicely.
The trigger is kinda hard, but is getting much better with use. I’d qualify it as “useable”. It’s smoothing up and is pretty crisp in SA.
The trigger is kinda hard, but is getting much better with use. I’d qualify it as “useable”. It’s smoothing up and is pretty crisp in SA.
tomr8368
March 12, 2003, 10:32 PM
it holds 7+1 rds... just got one and haven't fired it yet. Will post a report later... sure like the grip and sights.
Tom
Tom
BevrFevr
March 13, 2003, 01:10 PM
The data I collected earlier was from a distributor site and it looks like they used the same data for both of the previous pistols. Sorry I should have checked. Hell all the stats I mentioned could all be wrong.
It's funny I've held one, they are being sold, but I can't seem to find any good info on them on the net.
-bevr
It's funny I've held one, they are being sold, but I can't seem to find any good info on them on the net.
-bevr
Akurat
March 13, 2003, 02:44 PM
Here are the exact measurements off my Mini 9...
4 1/2" height
6 5/8" length
grip width 1 1/4"
slide width 1"
width of gun counting ambidextrious safeties, which stick out on both sides, 1 1/2"
documented weight is 24oz on the 9mm & .40, 27oz for the .45
4 1/2" height
6 5/8" length
grip width 1 1/4"
slide width 1"
width of gun counting ambidextrious safeties, which stick out on both sides, 1 1/2"
documented weight is 24oz on the 9mm & .40, 27oz for the .45
The Mighty Beagle
March 14, 2003, 08:54 AM
I know what you mean Bev, there's no info out there. Even harder than finding feedback is finding magazines for these guns though. I think Firestorm wants $45 for each one, which I'm personally not willing to pay.
Felonious Monk
March 14, 2003, 09:18 AM
Guys, is the FireStorm 45 Mini the same as the new Bersa .45?
Take a look at gunblast.com's Day 1 coverage of the 2003 SHOT show for a picture. http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2003_Day1/DSC05575.jpg
Take a look at gunblast.com's Day 1 coverage of the 2003 SHOT show for a picture. http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2003_Day1/DSC05575.jpg
tomr8368
March 14, 2003, 10:33 AM
Mine says 'Firestorm' on the grips and the slide, not Bersa. Don't know if these are different pistols or not...look the same otherwise.
The mags at our local gun store for the Firestorm mini 45 are $29.95.
Tom
The mags at our local gun store for the Firestorm mini 45 are $29.95.
Tom
Grayrock
March 15, 2003, 09:26 PM
I e-mailed SGS who import the Firestorm and they sent me a packet on the new Mini .45 with the answer to all my questions. It is 4.9" tall and is 1.4 " wide.
Tomr8368: If you don't mind my asking- how much did you have to give for yours? Have any comments about it? Is it a carry weapon?
Tomr8368: If you don't mind my asking- how much did you have to give for yours? Have any comments about it? Is it a carry weapon?
tomr8368
March 15, 2003, 09:50 PM
$319, The Bullet Trap , Plano, Tx. Haven't fired it yet. Will let you know on the other q's. I really like the grip and sights on it...
TR
TR
huntMT
March 16, 2003, 09:56 AM
If you go to the Bersa's argentina website, they list two Firestorms. Thereis the compact "Mini Thunder 9" that is sold in the US as the Mini Firestorm. They also make the "Thunder 9" that from Felonious Monk's post, would be the Bersa .45.
Felonious Monks Bersa 45 from the SHOT show:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2003_Day1/DSC05575.jpg
Bersa SA Mini Thunder 9 webpage:
http://www.bersa-sa.com.ar/Products/Ficha.asp?Codigo=THUM9&Idioma=e&Col=1
Bersa SA Thunder 9 webpage:
http://www.bersa-sa.com.ar/Products/Ficha.asp?Codigo=THU9
Finally the Bersa seems to be a copy of the Walther P88. The Walther has a slide mounted safety where the Bersa's is frame mounted. Image of Walther P88 (note external trigger bar):
http://jimcostanza.com/pa160179_10x7.5.jpg
There is also a Walther P88C that is the compact version more comparable the the Mini Firestorm or Mini Thunder 9.
Felonious Monks Bersa 45 from the SHOT show:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2003_Day1/DSC05575.jpg
Bersa SA Mini Thunder 9 webpage:
http://www.bersa-sa.com.ar/Products/Ficha.asp?Codigo=THUM9&Idioma=e&Col=1
Bersa SA Thunder 9 webpage:
http://www.bersa-sa.com.ar/Products/Ficha.asp?Codigo=THU9
Finally the Bersa seems to be a copy of the Walther P88. The Walther has a slide mounted safety where the Bersa's is frame mounted. Image of Walther P88 (note external trigger bar):
http://jimcostanza.com/pa160179_10x7.5.jpg
There is also a Walther P88C that is the compact version more comparable the the Mini Firestorm or Mini Thunder 9.
hksw
March 16, 2003, 10:26 AM
The Bersa Thunder9 is not the .45 ACP. It is (was in the US) 9 mm and is a loose copy of the P88. The Bersa Thunders are still produced and called 'Thunder' outside of the US, here it's the FireStorm. The .45 certainly is a re-chambering of the Thunder and so would probably be called Thunder45. The full sized P88 does not have a safety, just a combination slide relase/decocker. The P88C has the safety.
(huntMT's image link.)
http://jimcostanza.com/pa160179_10x7.5.jpg
http://jimcostanza.com/pa160205_10x7.5.jpg
(huntMT's image link.)
http://jimcostanza.com/pa160179_10x7.5.jpg
http://jimcostanza.com/pa160205_10x7.5.jpg
huntMT
March 16, 2003, 02:44 PM
I was not clear in my post.
My point was that there are two kinds of Bersa 45's
1) 1911 pattern made by Llama
2) Thunder/Firestorm pattern made by Bersa
And the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm pattern appeared to be copied from the Walther P88. There are also compact models of both the Walther (P88C) and Bersa (Mini) to further add confution.
I was not trying to say that the Bersa .45 in 45ACP was the exact same gun as the Bersa Thunder 9 in 9mm Luger, merely the patterns were similar and not the Llama copy of a 1911 Colt 45.
My point was that there are two kinds of Bersa 45's
1) 1911 pattern made by Llama
2) Thunder/Firestorm pattern made by Bersa
And the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm pattern appeared to be copied from the Walther P88. There are also compact models of both the Walther (P88C) and Bersa (Mini) to further add confution.
I was not trying to say that the Bersa .45 in 45ACP was the exact same gun as the Bersa Thunder 9 in 9mm Luger, merely the patterns were similar and not the Llama copy of a 1911 Colt 45.
Akurat
March 16, 2003, 04:19 PM
One more time for quick summary of the thread, quite confusing:
Bersa 'Mini Thunder' = Firestorm 'Mini' (clones in function of the Walther P88c, now being made in a .45 version, as well as 9mm & .40 auto. Sold under BOTH Bersa and FireStorm brandnames. IDed by: Double Action, 'Made in Argentina')
Firestorm 1911 clones, including commander & compact models = Llama 1911 clones (sold under both names as well. Firestorm calls the compact version the 'Mini COMPACT' as opposed to above 'Mini'. IDed by: Single Action, 'Made in Espana')
Bersa 'Mini Thunder' = Firestorm 'Mini' (clones in function of the Walther P88c, now being made in a .45 version, as well as 9mm & .40 auto. Sold under BOTH Bersa and FireStorm brandnames. IDed by: Double Action, 'Made in Argentina')
Firestorm 1911 clones, including commander & compact models = Llama 1911 clones (sold under both names as well. Firestorm calls the compact version the 'Mini COMPACT' as opposed to above 'Mini'. IDed by: Single Action, 'Made in Espana')
tomr8368
March 22, 2003, 08:44 AM
Shot it yesterday for the first time, about 100 rds. The recoil is very manageable and small for such a small 45, and at 7 yds it tore a ragged hole in the target about 2 1/2 " with 1 flyer for 14 rds. It was totally reliable in feeding and really fun to shoot. The sights are great for an old guy like me and the trigger is smooth and prettty crisp.
One final thing, its got a de-cocker!
Overall a great pistol for the price. Its a keeper.
Tom:D
One final thing, its got a de-cocker!
Overall a great pistol for the price. Its a keeper.
Tom:D
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