[David]

According to this report, the number of foreign-born in USA is at an all-time high at over 30 million! Even a slow economy has not slowed the influx much.

Here is the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2596-2003Mar9.html

Michael Savage -- Savage Nation -- where are you???:what:

I believe in immigration -- however, it should be very carefully monitored in a way that best benefits our country!

It would seem to me if you factor in terrorism and the high (and increasing) unemployment rate of US citizens maybe, just maybe, we should consider putting a freeze on almost all immigration for at least a year or two or three.:cuss:

But, what do I know???

Just my 2 cents...

[Wildalaska]

The same rascist stuff goes on and on...first against the Irish, then the Italians and Jews and now the "foreigners"...

But whats it got to do with guns anyway....

[Croyance]

Yeah, I bet the Indians thought it was a bad thing too.
I have an idea of how to make room for one more though.:fire:

[jmbg29]

But whats it got to do with guns anyway....For starters, it's in the Legal and Political section. But why pay attention, right? :rolleyes:

[David]

My opinion has NOTHING to do in any way, shape, form or fashion with race, religion, national origin, etc. etc., etc.
:cuss:

It ONLY has to do with protecting our country's borders and with controlling who can, and cannot, enter our USA.

The number of foreign-born in the USA is over 32 million -- this is NOT counting the millions and millions of illegal immigrants ALSO in our country at this very moment.

We live under a real terrorist threat, our economy and stock market may be tanking, our unemployment rate is high and getting higher, millions of US citizens have NO health insurance, city, county, state governments are running out of money -- perhaps it is time we think about our cooling our immigration for a while?

I think we, as Americans, are duty bound to to put the needs of our citizens first and foremost.

As US citizens, we have every right to control our borders and immigration policy.:banghead:

Am I wrong?

Just my 2 cents...

[David]

Here is just one of thousands of examples of the needless horrors that happen because we currently have little or no control our our USA borders and immigration policy:

From www.latimes.com

Truck Pursuit Ends in Deaths
Pickup with suspected illegal immigrants overturns after hitting CHP spike strip.

By Anna Gorman and David Haldane, Times Staff Writers

Two men were killed and 20 people were injured Sunday when a pickup truck carrying suspected illegal immigrants overturned in a high-speed police chase after running over a spike strip laid down by the California Highway Patrol.

The truck turned over several times after crossing the second of two spike strips and hitting the center divider on Interstate 8 about five miles east of El Cajon, authorities said. Border Patrol agents began chasing the truck in El Centro after learning that it had been stolen. CHP officers soon joined the 80- to 90-mph chase, which ended about 6 p.m. near Lake Jeremy Park Road.

"The driver had no regard for anyone's safety," said Officer Mark Gregg, a spokesman for the CHP. "It's apparent that the driver did not want to stop. The end result is that we have two dead and 20 injured."

It was the second time in two months that suspected illegal immigrants were killed in an accident involving spike strips in the same vicinity on Interstate 8. Two women were killed and 13 people injured on Jan. 9 when a pickup overturned after running over a spike strip laid down by Border Patrol agents. That accident happened at the end of a protracted chase in which the driver of the truck nearly hit U.S. agents while speeding around the spike strips.

One spike finally punctured one of the truck's tires, but the driver continued at 80 mph until he swerved into a guardrail, sending occupants tumbling down an embankment.

The driver of the truck in that crash, which is being investigated by the FBI, was later charged with two counts of murder, two counts of assault with a deadly weapon and one count each of child endangerment and witness intimidation. The FBI is to turn over its findings to the U.S. attorney's office.

The identities of the men killed Sunday were not immediately available. Few other details were available and officials said a news conference would be held today. They said the camper shell on the green pickup was thrown 60 feet from the crash, ejecting several of the occupants.

The injured were taken to seven hospitals.

Critics have said such pursuits by officers should be curbed as unnecessarily dangerous. The Border Patrol is already investigating whether the first chase was proper.
******

The above incident is a tragedy for ALL involved including the illegal immigrants -- the law enforcement officers -- the innocent US citizens, including children, put at risk by the 90 mph chase -- the taxpayers who will pay the medical bills -- etc., etc., etc.

If we had control of our USA borders and our immigration policy, these types of terrible incidents would not likely occur.
:banghead:

Just my 2 cents...

[Marko Kloos]

Here is just one of thousands of examples of the needless horrors that happen because we currently have little or no control our our USA borders and immigration policy

Little or no control?

I realize that you're trying to focus on the Illegals coming in from Mexico, but that statement leads me to believe that you have "little or no" knowledge about current immigration law and policies.

Legally immigrating into the United States is a lengthy, difficult, and expensive process.

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law already, so it's pointless to blame our immigration policy for that. As long as Mexico is dirt poor and next door to the richest nation in the world, you will have illegal immigrants. You'd have illegal immigrants even if you set up a new Berlin Wall on the Mexican border. People crossed over into West Germany from communist East Germany on a regular basis, even with minefields and machine guns to stop them. These people crossed the most heavily defended border in the history of the world, despite the risk of getting shot or blown up.

Oh, by the way, I am foreign-born as well, and so is the person running this site. By your reasoning, we shouldn't be here, since we take jobs away from native-born Americans. I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate that sentiment.

[cuchulainn]

If you look at it in terms of ratios -- percent native born vs. percent foreign born -- I bet we've had times with a lot more foreign born.

The population (regardless of birth) is at an all time high, so of course the foreign born population will be at an all time high when considering flat numbers

[Tamara]

The number of foreign-born in the USA is over 32 million ...

-- perhaps it is time we think about our cooling our immigration for a while?

Including Vietnamese, and Russian Jews, and Germans...

[KPersimmon]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The number of foreign-born in the USA is over 32 million ...

-- perhaps it is time we think about our cooling our immigration for a while?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Including Vietnamese, and Russian Jews, and Germans...


__________________

Now that I'm here, thanks to my immigrant grandparents, I think it's okay to put limits on any of these last 3.;)

[Oleg Volk]

Influx of immigrants will have a direct influence on the unemployment rate only if the number of jobs is fixed or nearly so. In reality, qualified people create new jobs and, instead of reducing employment statistics, may well contribute to lower levels of joblessness.

Further, even if we assume that immigrants compete for the fixed number of existing jobs and win in that competition, is that a problem? If they are more competent than people who won't get those same jobs, would you want them working in the US and at least paying taxes...or working on the same programming jobs in their homelands, where it doesn't benefit the US at all?

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/00/trading.html covers trade barriers, but it apllies to the commodity of competent people as well.

[ahenry]

Legally immigrating into the United States is a lengthy, difficult, and expensive process. That is a massive part of the problem. I have high hopes that some improvements are on the way. I continue to keep my eye on it and my fingers crossed.
Illegal immigrants are breaking the law already, so it's pointless to blame our immigration policy for that. As long as Mexico is dirt poor and next door to the richest nation in the world, you will have illegal immigrants. You'd have illegal immigrants even if you set up a new Berlin Wall on the Mexican border. Or as I like to say, enforcement will never eliminate illegal immigration.

[David]

Lendringser (and some others), thanks for your comments.

I would appreciate it if, however, you would CAREFULLY read my opinions about the current state of our immigration.

I believe if you CAREFULLY read my opinions, you will find:

1 -- I am pro immigration (I believe immigrants have been, are and will be, a vital and important part of the fabric of America) -- however we should very carefully control who can, and cannot, enter our country to best benefit our USA. The USA is OUR house -- should we not control who enters it?

2 -- In light of our current times, I think we should at least consider COOLING OFF the number of immigrants entering -- perhaps for a period of 1 to 3 or so years.

3 -- The way things are now are just crazy: for legal immigrants the process is too complex and long -- for illegal immegrants we have virtually no control, which leads, sadly, in many cases, to these folks being ripped off and even sometimes murdered by smugglers. Also, these high speed chases by law enforcement related to illegal immigrants are way too common and dangerous to innocent US citizens.

Just as a side note, not that this matters, my grandparents were legal immigrants to this country, and I am a member of a minority group.

Also, I would like to propose a new idea when posting: read CAREFULLY, then post.:neener:

Just my 2 cents...

[El Tejon]

David, why should we freeze immigration? What would that possibly help???

[LawDog]

Yeah! We should carefully control immigration!

I mean, first we let them have Manhatten Island for a handfull of glass, next thing you know them damn furriners with their strange ways (we you believe that they nailed their godling to a tree? Barbarians!), and their ridiculous language (never heard so much throat clearing in my life!), and Grandfather didn't have time for a good healthy spit before they're swarming all over the place.

So we said, okay guys, you can have eveything as far west as Can-Tuk-Ee, and what happened? I'll tell you what happened, turn around twice and their dipping their pasty toes in the Big Muddy River!

They're unnaturally pale, their hair is wierd colours and they stink. They eat stuff a 'coon wouldn't touch, they treat their women-folks wierd and they must be ashamed of themselves because they cover up from head to toe in stifling clothing.

Freeze immigration! Keep them unnatural furriners out!

LawDog

[ahenry]

If you do item number two you will see an increase in illegal immigration. I do believe that I have a better handle on this particular issue than you so take what I’m saying under advisement. A major contributor to illegal immigration is the difficulty immigrants have doing so legally. Doesn’t make it right, all it means is that the by product of your “cooling off” period will increase the number of people coming into America that start their lives here breaking the law. Is that really what you want? Oh, and trust me when I say that you will NEVER be able to completely eliminate the number of people that sneak across the border. You know what a new tactic of illegals is? Hop a flight to Canada and sneak across the border up there. We’ve got about ten THOUSAND miles of border, you can’t block everything. Trust me, I know. The problem is the amount of “free money” we hand out to illegals. Closely related is the amount of “free money” we hand out to people born here. Get rid of that (or at least some of it) and you would see a major improvement. If you coupled that with streamlined immigration policies you wouldn’t have all this complaining (sans solutions I might add).

for illegal immegrants we have virtually no control Thank Clinton and Reno for that. Major steps have been taken to improve the situation. Of course if you actually researched the issue you would know that already. :rolleyes:

Also, these high speed chases by law enforcement related to illegal immigrants are way too common and dangerous to innocent US citizens. Huh? What high-speed chases related to illegal immigrants? Care to share references with the class?

[ahenry]

Freeze immigration! Keep them unnatural furriners out! Well now Lawdog, I do think we should kick out all the damnyanks from Texas. Those furnners are a PITA. ;)

[Oleg Volk]

I concur on the elimination of the handouts...to locals and to foreigners.

[Flying V]

I'm in favor of letting in anyone who wants to come here provided that:
1) They learn English
2) They avoid being a public burden. (Get a job)
3) They abandon repulsive cultural practices. (Female circumcision, for instance)

[LawDog]

3) They abandon repulsive cultural practices. (Female circumcision, for instance)

And just whom, if I may ask, gets to decide if a cultural practice is repulsive?

LawDog

[Oleg Volk]

3) They abandon repulsive cultural practices. (Female circumcision, for instance)

At which point they will ask you about male circumcision and insist there's little difference.

Kinda like nudity taboos -- we laugh at the folks who cover themselves head to toe...while the Mediterranean folk laugh at us for wearing bikini tops at the beach.

;)

When in Rome...true, act according to the local customs...but you may find that a lot of our ways are as arbitrary as the ways of other peoples.

[hops]

The WSJ had a similar article as the Washingtoon Post (a paper I try to avoid at all costs). The WSJ added some additional items that the POST left out. The last sentence sums it all up very nicely.

===

The pace of arrivals of undocumented workers was expected to plummet from late 2001, when the border patrol reported a 50% decline in the number of people apprehended trying to enter the country unlawfully from Mexico. This was seen as evidence that fewer immigrants were trying to sneak into the U.S. Further proof of the growing difficulty of entering the U.S. illegally is that the price charged by immigrant smugglers nearly tripled after September 2001, to as much as $1,800, according to immigrants that crossed illegally into the U.S. shortly after the attacks.

Offsetting these deterrents, however, is a simple fact for most Latin Americans; their economies at home are doing much worse, in most cases, than the U.S. economy. That's particularly true in Mexico, where the ailing agricultural sector employs a fifth of all workers, but produces less than 5% of national economic output. Phil Martin, an agricultural economist at the University of California, says a Mexican migrant told him that "what's worse than being exploited in Fresno is not being exploited in Fresno."

[longeyes]

I agree that the best and most realistic approach to this issue is to eliminate or sharply curtail public benefits to illegal aliens along with enforcing sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegals. Of course we tried all that here in California with Prop. 187 and had the Calif. high court shoot it down as "unconstitutional."

[ahenry]

The pace of arrivals of undocumented workers was expected to plummet from late 2001, when the border patrol reported a 50% decline in the number of people apprehended trying to enter the country unlawfully from Mexico. There is a reason for those declines in reported numbers. If anybody would bother checking things out and thinking critically for a moment they would figure it out.

A new practice was created (thank you Reno :rolleyes: ) that showed a drop in the number of perceived border crossings, which are figured by extrapolations based on the number of apprehensions. There was a major divergence in thought starting about 1994 that was the cause of this drop. The old school of thought saw success as greater numbers of apprehensions. The new way of thought saw success as a decrease in the number of apprehensions, assuming that this drop occurred because of greater deterrence on the border. In some small defense of Reno (and everybody else making the decision) there is good indication that the start of the various programs did actually decrease the number of border crossings, for that specific area and for a short period of time. Hold the Line in El Paso was sorta the “father” of the idea but was not followed very well in implementing the new plans in other places in the country. Unfortunately it seemed that “certain” individuals were unable to differentiate between the possibilities that decreased apprehensions might not be because of actual deterrence, but just might be because of less effective means of apprehending illegals. Now don’t misunderstand me, I’m not knocking deterrence but rather the assumption that fewer apprehensions automatically meant fewer illegal border crossings. These practices implemented under Clinton and Co. were basically a paradigm shift from the “old school” way of thinking. Such changes had far reaching impacts. From poor morale among BP agents to, I think increased illegal immigration. It is to be hoped that new plans and new ideas can reverse the many years of hamstringing done under the previous administration. It will take some time however.


I should note that the above commentary is my own thinking gathered from my own study of the issue. It is nothing more. If you disagree with my assessment of plans such as Operation Gatekeeper and the like, feel free to say so.

[Frohickey]

Foreign-born is NOT the problem. Bob Hope is foreign-born.

The problem is US residents (legal or illegal) that do not want to assimilate US culture. I'm sure the Kalifornians here have bumped into some foreigners (Oriental or Hispanic/Mexican) that have been here for 10 years, and still do not understand english! :cuss:

There are 3 categories. Citizens, Legal aliens, Illegal aliens. But its their belief systems that is what is important.
-----
There are illegal aliens that came into the US illegally, but are very fervently Americanized in thinking, and do not associate themselves with their country of origin. Same with legal aliens and citizens that are Americanized in thought and deed. These are not the problems. The problems are the following.
-----
There are illegal aliens that are here commiting mayhem and destruction. (Lee Malvo, DC shooter)

There are legal aliens that went through the process of coming into the US legally, but do nothing else but just work, and not assimilate into US society. (Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, LAX shooter) (Mohamad Atta, WTC ringleader- alleged 72 virgin receipient)

There are citizens are that born in the USA, but do nothing but be on the public dole most of their lives, or are giving aid and comfort to the enemy. (Al Muhajir, aka Jose Padilla) (Abdul Hamid aka John Walker Lindh) (John Allen Muhammad, DC shooter)

[Bahadur]

David:
According to this report, the number of foreign-born in USA is at an all-time high at over 30 million!That is a misleading statement, because it does not factor in the growth of the total (foreign- and native-born) population. Meaning, since the total population of the USA "is at an all-time high," it is neither surprising nor odd that the absolute number of foreign-borns have increased as well.

Cuchulainn:
If you look at it in terms of ratios -- percent native born vs. percent foreign born -- I bet we've had times with a lot more foreign born.

The population (regardless of birth) is at an all time high, so of course the foreign born population will be at an all time high when considering flat numbers.Bingo! According to the article the ratio of foreign-born is now one in six (1/6) of the total population. That is NOT nearly the "all time high" (for example, in the early first decades of the 20th Century, the ratio of foreign-born to native-born was almost twice as high as now).

So to suggest that "foreign born number ALL TIME HIGH" is true only in absolute sense, and untrue in relative sense (not to mention needlessly alarmist).

[JeepDriver]

My wife is foreign born. She was born and raised in England. She came here to work on her masters degree.

If the rest of the people were like her it wouldn't be a problem. She is just as hard if not harder of a worker as most Americans, plus she speaks the language as well as German and Spanish.

The problem with the foreign born immigrants is the ones looking for a free ride.

[Croyance]

The problem with the foreign born immigrants is the ones looking for a free ride. Yeah, thank God nobody born here is like that.

[jmbg29]

Freeze immigration! Keep them unnatural furriners out!You Injuns should have fought harder. ;) :p :D