[critter]

A few semiauto handguns have been made with a rotary barrel lockup system. I think the Beretta Cougar was one. It seems to me that the system should lend itself to great accuracy. The front bushing could be made to fit really closely since the barrel does not tilt. The rear locks up with the rotray lugs so the barrel is held to close tolerances at both ends which should make really good accuracy possible.

Why has that system not caught on with more gun makers? Is it too complicated/expensive to make? Is it that it was just not popular? Was it too hard to make work right? Was it inaccurate?

Appreciate any insights.

[Jim Watson]

I don't know if the accuracy of a rotating barrel is actually any better - or much worse - than with a tilting barrel or propup block, but the gimmick seems to keep coming back for attempts at the market:
Savage 1907 etc. .32, .380, .45
Steyr Hahn 1911 9mm Steyr and Para
Obregon 11.35 mm (.45 ACP)
MAB PA15 9mm
Colt All American 2000 9mm
Beretta "All Italian" 8000 9mm & .40

Probably some other Very obscure models I don't remember or never heard of.

I don't know why they haven't caught on better - except the Savages, which competed pretty well, and the Steyr which was Austrian army issue and German secondary standard - but I doubt it is on accuracy.

[caz223]

The mauser style barrel lockup has it's strong points as well as weak ones.
Usually, it's teamed with the mauser style extractor, which isn't exactly a bad thing, either.
I lump them in with gas-ops, keep them clean and lubed, and they will work just fine.

[seeker_two]

Only down side I've heard of is oversensitivity to dirt & lack of lube. OK for target shooters, but worrisome for combat.

I kinda like the looks of the Mauser. Too bad they don't make a 9mm version...:mad:

[Handy]

First, there are actually two different kind of rotary systems: The Mab and possibly Savage use a rotating barrel as part of a delayed blowback system. The barrel rotates, but does not recoil.

The other pistols listed above are recoil operated. The recoiling barrel is rotated by a frame cam until the barrel unlocks from the slide. Beretta 8000, M2, etc.

Of interest, I believe the old rotating barrel Steyr pistol was the first auto to be formally adopted by a military.


Critter,

I don't think we are missing the boat. Rotating barrel recoil is likely the LEAST accurate system. Here's why:

A tilting barrel system can lock up very tightly on the muzzle end while in battery, yet allow the barrel to move in the slide without restriction. This is because the muzzle end is being wedged between the muzzle and camming link when in battery.

By contrast, the rotating barrel system does all of its lockup at the chamber end (as does the P-38/ Beretta 92 system). Funtionally, the muzzle end of the slide in unnecessary and is only there to hold the front sight and contain the recoil spring.

What you are proposing, adding a bushing at the muzzle end, would greatly increase drag on the action. This would lower reliability and possibly make accuracy worse, as the barrel would have a harder time resetting to the same position after every shot.

If there is a will, there's a way. A good gunsmith can make anything more accurate, but there is nothing about this system that naturally lends itself to better accuracy.

Of the systems that use a barrel that freely moves in the slide, the Browning system is the only one that firmly wedges the barrel against the sighting plane at the front and back. I think there are better methods, but not the rotating barrel.

For more of my crackpot theories on this subject, check this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10113&highlight=legacy

[caz223]

I think it's kinda like cars, if there was only one good way to make a car, there would only be one car company. And one car.
How boring.
The car maker markets a car, and people vote with their dollars.
If enough people show interest on one style, design, or feature somebody will offer it, or find a way to incorporate it into their car.
My advice to anyone who has a better mousetrap is to build it, and if it is indeed better, reap the rewards of being right, and following through with it...
Why was the Lamborgini countach made AFTER the model A ford?
Why was the single action revolver made before the Uzi?
You gotta start somewhere.
How you get from the model A ford to the countach?
Improvements, design changes, and people wanting more from the current designs...
It doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen.

[critter]

Interesting input guys. Thanks.