[harrydog]

I'm toying with the idea of having a light weight scout rifle built, probably on a Winchester model 70 action.
This would be mostly just a "fun" gun, for plinking and varminting, but I would also want to be capable of taking white tail deer with it.
I'm undecided on the caliber.
I like the idea of .243 with its low recoil.
I like the .270 but maybe it's over kill for this application.
Also 7mm-08 is a possibity but I think factory ammo is harder to find and then there is always the .308.
Any recommendations with explanations would be appreciated.

[Art Eatman]

I always have a bit of difficulty with the "unavailability" perceived for some cartridges. In today's U.S. of A., seems to me, you gotta work to get very far away from a reasonably-stocked store. Ace/TrueValue stores are all over the place, and most of them have a bunch of guns or ammo; and there's always Wally World.

So I wouldn't worry about 7mm08. :)

I have an old Sako L579 forester carbine; .243, and a 19" barrel. With scope and ammo it's seven pounds. I've killed at least 20 deer with it, and it's great for coyotes and suchlike.

I have a 700Ti in 7mm08. It's 22", making it a bit long for "Scout", but I'm a long-barrel guy. It's a good shooter, for sure. 6-1/4 pounds, fully dressed for Bambi.

Parameters, then: Short action, in a stock that fits properly and comfortably. 19" or 20" barrel. .243 or 7mm08, and take up handloading but without "bells and whistles" equipment. At most a 2x7 or x8 scope; you'll be on 2X to 4X for most hunting, anyway. Fixed 4X works just fine. Free-floated forearm and Ching sling, and practice in using the sling for offhand shooting.

Brand of rifle is less important than fit and feel. "Shootability is All."

:), Art

[Steve Smith]

Art, I might have asked this before, and if I have, forgive me...how do you like that Ti? Any complaints? How much did you pay?

Harrydog..sorry for the mini-hijack.

[Soap]

If you're set on a scout rifle, make sure you actually build up a scout rifle. Otherwise, its a rifle ;) That said, a good scout should be able to do most of the things you want to do well. But you would have to hunt varmints at closer ranges since the 2.75x Leupold scout scope isn't ideal for long shots on small game. Here is what I would do:

-Winchester Compact 70 in .308
-Ashley/Clifton scout mount (have your gunsmith turn down the base of the barrel to mount this)
-Leupold IER 2.75x scout scope
-Ashley Ghost Ring backup sights
-Galco 2 point Ching Sling

[cheygriz]

An excellent compromise between power (and recoil) of the .308, and the lower power of the .243 would be the .257 Roberts.

Now that the .257 is loaded +P, it comes very close to the .25-06 in a shorter action.

Bullet weights from 75 to 120 grains, low recoil, flat shooting and a joy to load.

If I were interested in the scout rifle concept, I'd seriously consider .257.

[CaesarI]

From a technical standpoint, to be truer to the "scout" name 7-08 and .308 are the more preferred calibers, but .243 since its based on the .308 is perfectly acceptable, though I feel it is more limiting in power than the 7 or 7.62mm bullets, since the principle purpose of the scout is to take game up to 400KG. If recoil is a concern... consider the following recently discussion topics:
on The High Road (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12451)
on TFL (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138978)

You might consider the same option I've finally decided for in the realm of the scout. The Kimber 84M. Very lightweight and it has controlled round feeding. Significantly lighter in weight than a Win Model 70 short action even with a 22" barrel and a wood stock. (to be truer to the scout rules the barrel would have to be cut 1.9") It is available in all 3 calibers, and soon left hand, which makes me happy :D

The Win Model 70 is quite capable, but the Kimber will always weigh less.

Cheap modifications are available in the form of the Ching Ring (Ashley Outdoors/XS Sight systems makes a copy here (http://www.expresssights.com/scope_mount.html) ) for forward mounting of optics (if you so desire), and a Ching-Sling is relatively inexpensive as well ( here (http://www.shottist.com/rifleleather.html) ). It is worth noting that the Leupold scope is a 2.5X (technically a 2.3X) while the Burris is a 2.75X, further the Ching Sling is a 3 point, rather than 2 point sling, though the Safari-Ching sling is a 2 point.

Good sites for more scout reading:

From "To Ride Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth" (http://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutrifle.html)
Proceedings of the 1st Scout Rifle conference (http://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutconference.html)
Geoff Beneze Summary (http://www.beast-enterprises.com/scoutdefine.html)

-Morgan

[Art Eatman]

Time I got done paying Texas' fershlugginer sales tax, I paid right close to the retail of $1,089.

I already had a Weaver V3.

Got it all sighted in; all three-shot groups were 7/8" to 1", which ain't bad for 3X. Then, I decided to lighten the trigger. Disassembling, I discovered the screws weren't torqued anywhere near spec. After reassembly and screw-torquing, I went to re-sight, and found it was still dead-on. Neat! Talk about forgiving!

It shoots to the same point of aim with either factory 139-grain or 140-grain handloads. Or maybe it's the other way around. Anyhow, it ain't persnickety.

I really think I'm gonna keep it!

:), Art

[WYO]

I haven’t had any problem with recoil in .308 from my Remington Ti. (I paid about $12 more than Art after taxes.) I haven't had enough trigger time to really wring it out, but I have been very impressed so far. For my concept of "scouting," which is walking around looking for game and game sign, the Ti is perfect.

I have no personal experience with a true scout rifle, but I wonder how much advantage it really has over a standard mounted scope in an appropriate power range. I hunted for years with a Leupold Vari-X II 1X4 on a 20" barreled rifle, and kept in on 1X almost all of the time. It was very fast on target, and I had no problem coming up on target with both eyes open, plus, I could dial it to 4X if necessary.

[Dave R]

Art, two follow-on questions on the TI:

1) How light is it?

2) Is recoil noticeably different from a "standard weight" rifle?

In the current "Field & Stream", Petzel says a rifle can be "too light". More recoil and less stability when you are holding on game are his two gripes. You see any of that?

[Sir Galahad]

I suggest a Ruger M77 International in .308. I have one myself and it's a helluva handy rifle. The action is Mauser design and very reliable. Has a three position safety so you can load/unload with safety on. Drop-open door magazine so you can unload the mag at once. Comes with iron sights. The Ruger scope rings are bombproof and will not loosen up on you. Personally, I don't see the benefit in a long relief pistol scope on a rifle. If you've got a rifle firing a full power cartridge, you ought to use a regular rifle scope. Anyway, the Ruger has an 18" barrel and is a fullstock. I don't know; to me, wood just looks and feels better than polymer on a rifle. Rifle comes with recoil pad. It doesn't cost a fortune, either. Out of the 2003 Ruger catalog, the International retails for $769, but your local shop can probably get it for a lot less.

Mine has been a charmer and a real pleasure to shoot. I've been bumping off cans at 100 yards and up every time. Mine is scoped, but I can re-install the sights in seconds. There is also a peep sight available from Cabela's and Brownells that mounts to the Ruger integral scope ring, too.

I shoot South African military surplus ammo through mine and it shoots great. At $27 per 140 round pack, I can shoot for hours.

[COHIBA]

i have a box stock ruger #1 international in 7X57 that i mounted a leupold scout scope on. i didnt need any additional rail either. i just mounted the scope as far forward as possible. works great. if it were any quicker to the shoulder i'd probably knocked myself out w/ it by now.

[goon]

I will bring up the black horse, the Savage 10FCM.
I have one, and I am entirely pleased with it. If I had to choose one to go repel the invading fascist hordes from the borders of the Commonwealth of PA right now, it would be that one.;)

[Art Eatman]

With scope, sling and ammo, my Ti is 6-1/4 pounds.

The stock is fairly straight-line. The recoil, shooting from my benchrest, isn't bothersome at all.

I gotta admit, getting back to scout rifles, that I don't particularly care for the forward scope mount. However, I'm habituated to the "standard" mounting on account of some 53 years of use. :) After trying the "feel" of a Savage Scout, I can see where one who is trained to the use of the forward mount can have an advantage for scouting usages as defined by Cooper.

Daniel Flory said, "...the 2.75x Leupold scout scope isn't ideal for long shots on small game." This is true, but that usage is outside the scope :) of Scout parameters.

Art