[280PLUS]

"U.S. Petty Officer 2nd Class Barbara Silkwood moves through mud under a barbed wire as she undergoes the endurance course at the Jungle Warfare Training Center at Camp Gonslaves in Okinawa, Japan in this photo released March 6, 2005."

My question:

How well will that rifle (you can just barely make it out) function after it's mudbath?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22402&stc=1

[Moondoggie]

Probably about 5 rds...then it's an ineffective (too short) bayonet holder! Unless you took the time and used most of 2 canteens to ****** it out.

Remember, all of her mags/ammo are also submerged in the guck.

[BondageJaguar]

If it were an FAL I reckon it would still work fine ^.^

[Boats]

The real question is what is a squid who is likely not a GI Jane SEAL, and is unlikely to be a combat medic, doing humping a rifle at a Jungle Warfare Training Center?

I know one possible answer because I did something similar with the 2/25ID (Light) at Schofield Barracks in Hawai'i in the late 80s, and to this day nearly everyone believes that no one who isn't a SEAL or a medic ever fires more than a couple of mags a year at best while in the regular Navy. The entire Weapons Division of my ship rotated through Schofield doing a mini advanced infantry course nearby at Makua Military Reservation. That place is scenic, and we got to see almost all of it in MILES gear. :D

Well, those folks who say you can't get any trigger time on Uncle Sam's dime in the regular Navy are wrong. There are a good number of squids besides SEALs who know small unit tactics, though of course not to the degree the members of NAVSPECWAR do.

BTW, here is JO2 Silkwood of the USS Abraham Lincoln without the mud:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20030507/450Lincoln07_silkwood.jpg
As she is an armed forces Journalist, she is probably in the mud for a story. ;)

[280PLUS]

I was thinking,

Don't a lot of women pay a lot of $ for those mud pack beauty treatments?

She's gettin' hers for free...

:D

But, back to the rifle, if the little door is closed and theyve got something covering the muzzle would it stay functional?

I've never tried dragging mine through the mud like that (shudder) :eek:

She looks much better without the mud btw..

[Brian Dale]

Q: how well would sloshing it out in a nearby stream work, if such were available? Should she be issued an 870 for this assignment? ;)

My view: it's always good to get more training. Good for JO2 Silkwood.

[Talon]

She looks much better without the mud btw..

I'm not so sure... :evil:

[mustanger98]

I've listened to several brown water Navy vets who said an M16 will NOT function like that. It won't function with water in the barrel and/or gas tube either. They said if you get an M16 submerged you have to blow all the water out of the barrel/gas system before you can fire it. Otherwise, you'll blow it up. If the enemy is right there when you come up out of the water, you don't have time to burp your rifle. The M14 and AK47 are the only two I can readily think of having heard are the only ones that'll come up out of the swamp ready to fire.

The 870? Yeah. I'd bet on an 870.

[natedog]

But, back to the rifle, if the little door is closed and theyve got something covering the muzzle would it stay functional?

I'd think so- with a magazine in the gun, the dustcover closed, and a muzzle condom on, there wouldn't be anyway for the mud to get into the internals. Yucky on the outside, but functional on the inside.

[MillCreek]

The real question is what is a squid who is likely not a GI Jane SEAL, and is unlikely to be a combat medic, doing humping a rifle at a Jungle Warfare Training Center?

My wife did that earlier in her Navy career as a corpsman. She spent some time 'on the green side' when she worked with the Marines as a field medic. She reports that all the field medics for the Marines had to do some very basic infantry training with the combat medics getting more. At that time in the 80's, and I assume still today, being a combat medic for the Marines was closed to women. She recalls that during her stay with the Marines, one of the more charming sayings that the corpsmen had was 'sometimes the best medical care for your patient involves emptying a 30 round magazine at the bad guys'.

[Brian Dale]

'sometimes the best medical care for your patient involves emptying a 30 round magazine at the bad guys'.MillCreek, your wife sounds like a sharp cookie. Very cool. :cool:

They wouldn't let us do that back when I was a volunteer firefighter. :evil:

[MillCreek]

They wouldn't let me do that either, back when I was a volunteer firefighter, EMT, paramedic and hazmat team lieutenant. Although I do have to say that I know of EMS personnel who have discreetly carried while on the job.

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

The Navy's Pacific Fleet and the Atlantic Fleet rifle and pistol matches are coming up in April and the All-Navy championship beginning the first weekend in May. The winners may continue on to the Inter-Service championships taking place afterwards at Fort Benning, Georgia - in July I believe.

While competition is open to military personnel only, viewing and cheering is open to all who care to come see. Some darn good shooters at the sites on both coasts from all around, and lots of good camaraderie.

[Catuela]

I'd think so- with a magazine in the gun, the dustcover closed, and a muzzle condom on, there wouldn't be anyway for the mud to get into the internals. Yucky on the outside, but functional on the inside.

Negative. This is not a match grade AR we are talking about. Even with all the things mentioned you are still going to get water into the internals through the trigger, the charging handle, and most will come in through the play between the upper and lower recievers.

If she were to stand up right after that top picture and fire a round, the round would fire without fail. There would be what would look like an explosion as all the water inside the weapon was rapidly forced out of the iternal components of the weapon. After firing my ol M16A2 after being completely submered it mud a little thicker than that, it would not cycle for about 4 rounds, so the charging handle had to be racked every time. After that it worked with what I would say was 80% reliability until I had a chance to wash it down with a 5 gallon water jug.
Of course after about an hour after the bath it turned completely orange :what:

[HankL]

Of course after about an hour after the bath it turned completely orange :scrutiny:

Care to elaborate on that Catuela?

[El Tejon]

Orange=Southern clay??? :confused:

[280PLUS]

Where are they being held on the east coast?

the west coasties can ask for themselves...

:neener:

[Lone Star]

What is Silkwood looking at in the second photo? Brad Pitt? :D

As for the fellow who said his M16 changed colors, might he have referred to rust?

Lone Star

[AirForceShooter]

I'm amazed if a 16 ever works, it's crap.
Anytime I had one issued in a combat zone I traded it, tossed it (ain't combat loss a great term) and got an AK. Now that works no matter what.

AFS

[MrMurphy]

At Knox I ran an A2 through a little mudbath (never, ever, EVER be the first to voluntarily run a combat assault course), dragged it all over the place in the mud lowcrawling, etc before pretty much 90% submerging it under mud/water/goop going under the barbed wire as the pit had turned into a pool. I kept the muzzle clear with the BFA on it, but otherwise it was underwater. It was only under a few minutes getting under the obstacle but after a severe shaking off and clearing the action, it kept firing at pretty much a 95% reliability rate as far as I remember. You're gonna get jams with blanks anyways (not enough gas to work the action) but it, considering it was wet and muddy and using blanks, didn't jam nearly as bad as I thought it would.

With live ammo it was just fine.

[Trebor]

Murph, you a treadhead then?

[MrMurphy]

Actually, I was in ROTC, running through their version of basic.

I was about a year from commissioning, about to leave for Fort Lewis when the Clinton Years BS just got to be too much and it was obvious we were not wanted. So I got out.

Now I'm trying to get back IN (enlisted) Air Force and it's not easy. If I wanted to go Army again, I'd be off in a week. it's still an option.

[Hhrshooter]

Well now,
I would never have thought i would actually find someone i knew on this board...lol This JO2 is not what i would call a tactical or practical lady. I do find it nice to see she is actually getting dirty though. I do not trash people as a norm, but in this instance i'm sure there is a guy involved in her doing this and not a story. I served with her onboard the U.S.S. LINCOLN 00-03.

[Joey2]

Dust cover closed, muzzle pointed up out of the mud, it will fire.

She looks better in the mud bath.

[Nitram68]

I like! BTW, where can you get those muzzle condoms?

[Destructo6]

I lived at Camp Harold Gonslaves (aka "Northern Training Area [NTA]) for about 10 months. That section of the Endurance Course is known as the "Pit and Pond." That mud smells like poo. The improvised stretcher carry through knee-deep mud comes after the Pit and Pond, so she's about 3/4 way through the course.

About 600 Marines and Sailors (FMF Corpsman) come through NTA's jungle course every 14 days. The infantry units attend the "Combat Skills" course, that lasts 10 days, while support units attend the 7 day "Field Skills" course. Both run concurrently. Each course ends with the unit running the Endurance Course in teams of 8-10 service members. We ran UDP and resident units through these two courses all the time.

No, the rifle will most likely not function at the end of the Endurance Course. Most weapons are difficult enough to operate manually afterwards, requireing extensive cleaning before the internals will move freely again. Some of the more forward thinking units brought rubber M16s along with them for the Endurance Course.

[Catuela]

Care to elaborate on that Catuela?

Rust my friend. take pretty much any service rifle in the US Military that has been around for more than 2 or 3 years and a good day of humidity will make it rust in hours.

Some of the more forward thinking units brought rubber M16s along with them for the Endurance Course.

Most training that I have seen recently that would put someone a situation shown in the photo at the sart of this thread, would be conducted with rubber rifles. Most of the real grunts do get pretty attached to an idividual weapon and would not be happy about putting a personal T/O weapon in mud like that.

[HankL]

But Catuela, You did say completely orange. I was doing my best to envision what would cause aluminum and plastic to turn orange.
Sorry for being a bit on the literal side.

[molonlabe]

Kinda reminds me of a Henny Youngman joke.

My wife is so ulgy, she got a mud pack the other day. She looked pretty good. Then the mud fell off.

[silkw]

Here is another picture of me for you to rip apart, go for it!
C:\Users\Barbie\Pictures\new hair\IMG_0003.JPG

[Sylvan-Forge]

Don't let a few spoil it. THR has plenty of nice peeps ..

Talk to us :D

[atomchaser]

Silkw - Don't pay an attention to some of the guys on here. Most of them would probably falling over themselves to meet you if they were out on a deployment for more than a week.

[Brian Dale]

Welcome to THR, silkw. Most folks aren't interested in ripping anybody apart, nor their pictures.

I hope that you'll enjoy being here.

[Wheeler44]

Welcome to the High Road (well it's supposed to be anyway). You will find this place to be just like the real world, some folks got class some are all A**.

Would you care to share with the rest of us what you experienced and whether or not your rifle functioned after the mud bath.

Enquiring minds want to know.

Wheeler44

[1911 guy]

I read she's a journalist. The Navy has it's own newspaper, same as the Army. It's called, of all things, The Navy Times. I have little doubt she's doing a story. I had some friends who were JO's and they got to do some interesting stuff once in a while.

To the guy who said he served with her on the Lincoln:

I have no doubt that if everything were known about all the bozze we drank, all the skirts we chased and all the hell we raised on deployments, especially me because I've done 'em going east and west, we'd be thoroughly embarassed. No. I didn't serve on the Lincoln, but I've got some time under my belt on CVN-70 and CV-67. A couple cruises on each.

[RKBABob]

Silkw,

I don't think any of us can see the picture you tried to post. Please ignore the "Low Road" comments... Other than being covered in mud, or screaming your b@lls off, I don't see anything wrong with the 1st two pics!

Welcome to The High Road. If you decide to stay and post some more, I think you'll find most of us to be civil.

[streicherr]

I like! BTW, where can you get those muzzle condoms?Try the mens room at any quality gun store....

Randy

[silkw]

The picture of me is taken in Okinawa at Jungle Warfare Training. Granted, I didn't imagine I would ever be in any position to use that training, but I knew it would be a challenge and I requested to go. It was by far the most physically intense training I have ever been through, and the following week I was black and blue all over, but I am glad I had the opportunity to go through it. I learned more in that one week of training than I learned the entire six years I spent in the Navy.
We used rubber rifles for the Endurance course on the last day, and of course they were completely full of mud at the end of the day, but if you really were in a combat situation would you ditch your weapon when wading through mud because it will be too dirty to fire? I think not, I would find a way to clean it as opposed to being without a weapon entirely...

[Flak_Jakett]

I agree with Catuela, that even if you have a closed dust cover and a muzzle condom on, the weapon is not water proof. Water will also make it's way in through the magazine well between the magazine and the housing creating a direct path for water to enter the bolt, not to mention the dustcover which is normally only loosly covering the ejection port.

Most of the training weapons are very beaten and abused pieces of sorry dog poo. With a drenching in mud like that, I would give the rifle one round. I don't think the gas tube would have enough force to blow the bolt back with all that muck in the rifle.

If you have a decent rifle it may perform better.

I like! BTW, where can you get those muzzle condoms?

Nitram, they call them muzzle condoms, because they actually ARE condoms.

When we went through the endurance course we had to use real weapons so that:

A) we would have to clean them

B) It could support the weight of a bayonet.

The rubber rifles have bayonet studs, but the fake weapon has a bad tendency to break and cause a hazard by leaving errant bayonets all over the course.

I'm amazed if a 16 ever works, it's crap.
Anytime I had one issued in a combat zone I traded it, tossed it (ain't combat loss a great term) and got an AK. Now that works no matter what.

What? Either things work waaaaay different in the Air farce, or your full of it.

[Checkman]

Way to go guys. Start talking smack about a young woman who is wearing the uniform and serving her country. A young woman who is a stranger to almost all of you. Whoops somebody told her that she's a thread topic.

So you've managed to hurt gunowners and slam females in the military in one easy step.

Obviously this is not directed at everyone who has posted.

[Working Man]

silkw, as you can see the thread is more than 2 years old. I'd like to
think we have grown a bit since then. We're glad you could stop by and hope
you can take the time to see what THR is really about and what we have to
offer. I'm sure we could learn a thing or two from each other.

Thanks for your time and welcome to THR.

[TomB7777]

I'm jealous. I was in the Navy from 1981 to 1986, got out as an EM1. I only got to fire one mag out of a 1911 with a 22 conversion kit during recruit training in San Diego. That was extent of my small arms training in the Navy.

[JP from Phoenix]

I only got to shoot like 2 full mags the whole time i was in the navy

when i went to boot camp they had us shooting laser guns lol, i heard they put in a real range after i left and had boots shooting real guns

[JP from Phoenix]

I was a US navy photographer for 6 years though and we are put in situations where that kind of training might be needed but in the navy it isnt that much of an issue. I was on the boat and a air base during my time so i never got to do any fun stuff like that. I wanted to do combat camera though, those guys were the best shooters (photographers) in the armed forces. I just did PR stuff most of the time, shooting ceremonies and mixers for top brass etc.

[Brian Dale]

I am glad I had the opportunity to go through it. I learned more...Well done, ma'am. Thank you for your service.

And welcome, TomB7777.

[XavierBreath]

This thread is indeed two and a half years old. We also have a policy regarding personal attacks on other members on THR.

Surprise, surprise........Petty Officer Silkwood is now a member of THR.

Petty Officer Silkwood, enjoy The High Road if you decide to stay. I'm closing the thread for the benefit of everyone involved. Thank you for your service.

VFA151
USS Midway CV41
1985-1991