[Desertdog]

FROM JOSEPH FARAH'S G2 BULLETIN
Showdownat border?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols

Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern


It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.

A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders from federal prison to members of his international criminal organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border control into their own hands.

The American civilians, known as the "Minutemen," say they have some 750 volunteers ready to show up in Tombstone to start policing the border and dealing with illegal immigration.


The Mara Salvatruchas, founded in Los Angeles, has become one of the most violent and widespread gangs throughout South America, the U.S. and even Canada. Many of its members and leaders have been deported from the U.S., but the group is said to be deeply involved in cross-border arms-running and drug-smuggling operations, according to U.S. law enforcement sources.

Lately, the gang has joined forces with former members of the Farabundo MartÃ* National Liberation Front, a radical terrorist group, and some U.S. intelligence sources say they may also be cooperating with Islamic terrorist groups – including al-Qaida.

Meanwhile, the Minutemen hope to form a group of civilians from all walks of life to patrol the border day and night – even with the threat of such violence. Their goal is stop the flow of illegal immigration through the Arizona-Mexico border, the biggest entry point into the U.S.

Jim Gilchrist of Orange County, Calif., is leading the project.

"I struck the mother lode of nationalism," he told a local TV station. "I thought I would be lucky to get 12 volunteers. In six months, I've gotten almost 500."

The target is a 230-mile stretch of desert along the Arizona-Mexico border. Some people call the area "America's Open Door." Along this section of the border, more than 43 percent of all illegal entries to the U.S. take place.

Last year, the Tucson Border Patrol apprehended 491,000. But for every person caught, immigration sources say, at least five walk in undetected.

"We're going to set up at least 40 maybe 80 outposts, four to six people per outpost 24/7, looking for people who are infiltrating over that border," said Gilchrist.

To do this, Gilchrist is amassing people from all walks of life to spend a month camped out on the border.

But some say taking the work of border patrol into their own hands could be deadly. While Gilchrist stresses non-violence, he doesn't rule out the possibility that many of his volunteers will be armed.

"Ten percent of our members are retired law enforcement officers who have a right to carry a concealed weapon. They probably will carry and you won't know it," he said.

But Andy Adame with the U.S. Border Patrol in Tucson warned "people are going to get hurt." Adame said many of these volunteers don't know what they're in for.

"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're going to have a gun fight," said Adame.

Border patrol agents have seen a growing problem with violence in recent years. Agents have been attacked by frustrated smugglers with rocks, bricks, even automatic weapons.

According to authorities, violence along the Tucson sector has climbed to an all-time high.

"Bringing untrained civilians into this border environment is a recipe for disaster," said Adame.

But that has not deterred many of the volunteers.

The Minutemen even have an air force. They plan to use about two dozen aircraft to patrol the skies near the border.

Rivera-Paz was arrested three weeks ago and is accused of murdering more than two dozen people in Honduras. He was wanted in connection with the December bus massacre of 28 people, including six children, in San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

The Mara Salvatruchas identify themselves with tattoos, such as "MS" or the numbers 13 and 18, signifying their relationship to the gang. The gang formed in the United States in the 1980s in a Los Angeles prison. The 13 and 18 signify the city streets in L.A. where they hung out.

U.S. officials are concerned the gang members might help sneak al-Qaida terrorists into America.

Rivera-Paz was charged with illegally entering the United States after being deported, but is expected to be extradited to Honduras to face charges in connection with the bus massacre.

[DRZinn]

This could end up really good, or really bad. I hope these "Minutemen" have at least a little training.

[The Rabbi]

With any luck they'll restage the Iran-Iraq War. Good riddance.

[Standing Wolf]

Rivera-Paz was arrested three weeks ago and is accused of murdering more than two dozen people in Honduras. He was wanted in connection with the December bus massacre of 28 people, including six children, in San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

So? He's still eligible for Bush's amnesty program, isn't he?

[Nathanael_Greene]

I predict the ACLU will come to the aid of the illegals, suing the Minutemen for infringing on the rights of those sneaking into the country.

(And I am not being at all sarcastic.)

[TallPine]

"Bringing untrained civilians into this border environment is a recipe for disaster,"
I would imagine that quite a few of the Minuteman volunteers are retired/former military, along with those with LE experience ;)

What worries me, though, is that IIRC the Minutemen will NOT be carrying rifles :uhoh:

I wouldn't venture into that border back-country for any reason without at least a rifle and a handgun, along with plenty of ammo.

[TarpleyG]

What worries me, though, is that IIRC the Minutemen will NOT be carrying rifles
I think that Gilchrist is emphasizing that most will be unarmed for the LEO's and media's sake knowing full well that anyone of them NOT armed is an idiot. There'll be plenty of rifles, handguns, and ammo around but kept out of sight, I'm sure.

Greg

[ralphie98]

But some say taking the work of border patrol into their own hands could be deadly. While Gilchrist stresses non-violence, he doesn't rule out the possibility that many of his volunteers will be armed.
I would sure hope these guys are armed. If we're talking about confrontations with street gangs/criminals from south of the border with FA weapons, the good guys should have some firepower as well.

But Andy Adame with the U.S. Border Patrol in Tucson warned "people are going to get hurt." Adame said many of these volunteers don't know what they're in for.
Well, this wouldn't be a problem if the border patrol had the funds and manpower to take care of this themselves. Maybe some help from the National Guard as well. Since nobody else is stepping up to take care of the problem, it's nice to see that these guys are. (Insert immigration policy rant here)

[Myself]

The Border patrol guys do a tough job without sufficent resources. I guess I would be naive to think there management types would welcome and attempt to integrate assistance that dosn't impact the budget.

:rolleyes:

[itgoesboom]

If the MS-13 gang is succesful in killing one or more of these men and women protecting our borders, I suspect there will be a huge cry for more border security.

Not only that, but there would probably be more people willing to join up, and fight against them.

It would work against them in so many levels.

I do hope that the Minutemen have their rifles with them, I would hate to see this situation get out of hand.

I.G.B.

[Bear Gulch]

The ACLU should be viewed as part of the enemy forces. They are just tearing us apart more slowly!

[R.H. Lee]

It's an opportunity. Mara Salvatruchas will all be together in one place. :evil:

[Lonestar.45]

"Bringing untrained civilians into this border environment is a recipe for disaster," said Adame


Maybe, but I'd say an even larger recipe for disaster is allowing 4 out of 5 illegals into the country without being caught, as is currently happening according to the article. I'd imagine this civilian group will get THOUSANDS of more volunteers if Al-Qaida suicide bombers start doing their thing in American cities. The feds need to wake up. If the government isn't willing to protect the country, there are still citizens who will.

[Bear Gulch]

I concur. They should have some standard for conduct lest they get labeled as a bigoted mob.

[cuate]

George, are you reading all of this? Fiddling while :cuss: Rome burns is bordering on dereliction of duty . So drop the SS yakitty yak, put on your fighting shoes and lets get mucho more INS agents on the Mexican border, stop the invasion of freeloaders and dope smugglers, gun runners and pals of el queda.

You can't kiss Mexico's :cuss: and cause civilians to have to do the job for you. So, reveile, haul out, heave up and get the job done! :banghead:

[Desertdog]

"They should have some standard for conduct lest they get labeled as a bigoted mob."

Maybe the Founding Fathers had a situation like this in mind when they wrote;

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[CZ-100]

"They should have some standard for conduct lest they get labeled as a bigoted mob."

Maybe the Founding Fathers had a situation like this in mind when they wrote;

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


EXACTLY !!

[wingman]

You can't kiss Mexico's and cause civilians to have to do the job for you. So, reveile, haul out, heave up and get the job done!

All things done or not done stem from money, the elite in Mexico win, the wealthy here win and the American taxpayer is the loser. :(

[gunsmith]

I need a vacation.

Gang members are tough when it comes to unarmed peasants who've never held a rifle,the few I've seen at the range cant hit the side of a barn at 7 yards.
If they shoot their "machine guns" it will make it easier for any vet to pick
them off at a distance.

[Lennyjoe]

I might have to contribute some off time to the desert.

[itgoesboom]

After spending some time on their site, I am actually a little worried for the participants.

While they openly discuss carrying pistols in accordance to Arizona law (although they dont want people unholstering even for cleaning :scrutiny: ), they dont discuss having rifles nearby.

My concern is that a 4-8 member team might be ambushed by members of the Mara Salvatruchas gang. Even if all members of the MMP are openly carrying a pistol, they wouldn't be a match against a group of gang bangers carrying rifle.

Add in the extended range between the teams, and response time for another team to come help would likely be too long.

Other than that, I think they have done a great job explaining what to expect, and what their goals are. I think they are doing a great thing, and I wish that I could join them.

I.G.B.

[Jim Diver]

I think I will take some time off in the desert myself....

[Stauffenberg]

"If the MS-13 gang is succesful in killing one or more of these men and women protecting our borders, I suspect there will be a huge cry for more border security."

Maybe, but I wouldn't be sure. It seems like nothing's sacred anymore to the media, and that postmodernist, moral-relativism lot might spin it into a bunch of "hicks" and "gun nuts" going into a dangerous situation and getting killed as much by "their own stupidity" as anything else.

Which isn't to say I don't itch for a few weeks off from work and school, and the cash to load my car with ammo and camping supplies. I'm a big admirer of this initiative.

[nickthecanuck]

I thought you guys would enjoy this extremely hilarious take on the same story.

http://aztlan.net/salvatruchas_vs_minutemen.htm

Mara Salvatruchas are our "chickens coming home to roost. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable. :banghead:

[itgoesboom]

I emailed Jim over at MMP about the article, and expressed hope that the volunteers would have access to rifles just in case.

He emailed back very quickly that the threat is actually a hoax by one of MS-13's members who likes to intimidate them.

Just thought I would pass that on.

I.G.B.

[Spot77]

A .50 cal can go a long way.

Why engage these fools in a gunfight with handguns when trained ex-military, LEO and other shooting enthusiasts can easily pick them off from 1/2 mile away?

It'll be interesting.

[DRZinn]

:rolleyes:

[The Rabbi]

Maybe, but I wouldn't be sure. It seems like nothing's sacred anymore to the media, and that postmodernist, moral-relativism lot might spin it into a bunch of "hicks" and "gun nuts" going into a dangerous situation and getting killed as much by "their own stupidity" as anything else.

I'm not in the media nor a post-modernist (whatever that is) and it still sounds about right to me. Guys getting excited by the prospect of going into the desert and wasting people is probably not the image of gun owners we want to project. It sure isnt an image for me. :eek:

[cuchulainn]

Guys getting excited by the prospect of going into the desert and wasting people is probably not the image of gun owners we want to project. Yep.

[Clean97GTI]

The way I see it, SKS are inexpensive. Ammo for them is inexpensive and widely available. Stripper clips are easy to stash in mag pouches.

So, you have all volunteers sign up as militia and just call it something else when news cameras come around. Make sure you emphasize that there is a huge open border and that all sorts of nasty Islamic-sounding words can get through there.

FOX news will love ya although everyone else will blast you as a racist, militant, wacko, gun-nut...etc.

Sounds like fun! I think I'll go camping for a while.

[Stauffenberg]

"Getting excited about the prospect of going into the desert and wasting people?"

The guys will be armed for their protection only, if they choose to be armed at all. They're gonna be there largely to just report illegals coming over the border - it's more a political protest than anything. I suppose your opinion of that depends on your views of immigration, and this really isn't the forum for discussing that. But what red-blooded American's heart isn't warmed by the idea of his fellow citizens taking time off from their busy schedules to make their statement? If they were a bunch of college students protesting a war, they'd be hailed as "democratic activists," but no, they're protesting immigration, and maybe doing it with a rifle in their trunk, so they're dangerous "vigilantes." I see a double standard there; am I wrong?

[R.H. Lee]

All of you who are more interested in preserving "image" (whatever that is) than liberty deserve what you get. :rolleyes:

[The Rabbi]

The guys will be armed for their protection only, if they choose to be armed at all. They're gonna be there largely to just report illegals coming over the border - it's more a political protest than anything.

Oh yeah. Read the comments on this thread. Regular Boy Scout meeting. :rolleyes:

[2nd Amendment]

It seems that for some around here any action more strong than a sternly worded letter to the Elite is not acceptable. Increasingly I am coming to believe that nothing will change this view for some.

[nico]

Stauffenberg, they're not protesting immigration. They're protesting ILLEGAL immigration. There's a huge difference between the two.

[The Rabbi]

Stauffenberg, they're not protesting immigration. They're protesting ILLEGAL immigration. There's a huge difference between the two.

Look at the article. They are not protesting anything. They are taking roles in law enforcement. That is not the same thing.

[Antjo]

Well, guess it's time to grab my gilly suit & desert camo. :D

Why don't we just take all of Mexico and then we wouldn't have to worry about illegal immigrants from there anymore, and we could have a smaller border to patrol along Central America. :p

[Selfdfenz]

Breaking News

As a follow-up to their highly successful The Guide for the Mexican Migrant, the Mexican Federal Government issued a press release today announcing the second book in the El Norte Travel Series entitled Getting the Most Out of Your April Trip to Anywhere Besides Arizona.

This newest offering is loaded with features on Texas, New Mexico and California as well as some excellent hints on campfire cooking and warm weather endurance training.

The publisher predicted the first copies of Getting the Most Out of Your April Trip to Anywhere Besides Arizona should start arriving in the US as early as May depending on the weather.

(this was only a test) :D

S-

[itgoesboom]

Rabbi,

They aren't going to detain any of the illegals, they aren't going to hunt them with firearms, they are simply going to be observing and contacting the border patrol.

Maybe you should go to their website and and actually read what they are doing, and what their goals are rather than spouting your incorrect impressions of what they are doing.

The reason that many of us are advocating that they carry long arms is because of the threat that has just been posed by the MS-13 gang, which has a long history of extreme violence.

And they are doing this as a protest, as a way to garner attention from the national media. They know they aren't going to be able to report all the illegals that cross while they are there. They know that even if they could report all the illegals that cross at that particular spot during that particular month, it won't be a drop in the bucket compared to how many come across over the rest of the border.

I.G.B.

[The Rabbi]

I did go to the web site and you are right.

But any protest that stands a good chance of turning violent usually gets squelched. I am also underwhelmed by the whole thing.

[Lennyjoe]

Ummm............if I go out there I'm gonna be carrying more than just my pistol. Was thinking more like the AR-15 and 8 each 30 round mags. Of course the 10MM would be coming along too with 3 each 9 round mags.

[papaone]

So what should those do who are deeply concerned about the threats that cross our borders? :confused:

[morganm01]

Don't know where I saw it...But this "Minutemen call to arms" was a joke.

If you want to help out...donate or contact American Border Patrol.

UNDOCUMENTED BORDER PATROL AGENTS!!!

[GSMD Fan]

Could someone provide a link to the web site you are discussing? :confused:

[Art Eatman]

As near as I can tell, the mainstream media isn't particularly interested in US problems with illegals. The Congress seems to hope the whole issue wil somehow just go away. The White House doesn't appear to be doing anything meaningful.

The last I heard, the various governmental powers are delegated by The People. That's us voters and suchlike, if I understand who The People are. We pay taxes and thus hire cops and border patrollers and soldiers and all that defend-society-and-the-country stuff.

So what are The People to do when a problem is not addressed by those to whom the authority has been delegated? Say, "Aw, heck with it; why worry?" and go watch TV? Or try to make waves, get the general public's attention and hope to stir up some action from those who should have been doing something years ago?

I think it's trivial to focus on those who fulminate about "I'm gonna shoot..." or on those who show up making racist commentaries. Instead, key on the mission statement of the organizers and don't fall into the usual mediahcrity* trap of focussing on the excitement rather than the problem.

Art

* Say 500 people show up. Three are eager-shooters, and two are from StormFront. A Cokie Roberts type will respond to "What does it all MEAN?" with "It's too easy to buy guns, and it shows racism is a serious problem." No mention of 495 "just foks", nor the billions of tax dollars wasted on illegals.

[Jim Diver]

http://www.minutemanproject.com/

[Drizzt]

Our Opinion: A plea to the Minutemen - stay home

Tucson Citizen

Hundreds of armed, volunteer "Minutemen" invited to pour into Cochise County on April Fools' Day likely will create more problems than they ever could solve.

They're coming from across the nation to find and report incoming illegal immigrants, a sort of "neighborhood watch," says organizer Jim Gilchrist, who lives in Orange County, Calif.

We question why a Californian feels compelled to protect the Cochise County border, but county residents don't. Many welcome the Minutemen as a means to not only batten down the border, but also send a clear signal to Washington.

We need immigration reform, they say, and we need it now. We couldn't agree more.

Locals are tired of trespassers trashing their land. Some feel threatened enough to carry guns themselves, and that's logical once you've heard their tales of woe.

But the prospect of locals and visitors gathering with guns to avert would-be immigrants doesn't sit well with the Border Patrol or some county officials.

The summons is for "volunteers" who may carry guns but won't be required to have concealed weapons permits.

They would roam along the San Pedro River from Naco to the Huachuca Mountains, sweeping as far north as Tombstone.

Organizers say the Minutemen will simply alert officials to the presence of illegal immigrants. But given the emotionally charged immigration issue, will their activities stop at that?

All Americans should be concerned about border issues, but forming a group that includes veritable strangers - and encouraging them to bring firearms - has many authorities worried, and rightly so.

Instead of taking part in this ill-conceived exercise, people should contact their members of Congress and insist on comprehensive immigration reform now.

The "Minutemen" will be in territory where few folks can differentiate among citizens, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. Our region is rich in Mexican-American heritage founded by families who settled here generations ago.

So the specter of unknown, untrained, armed people joining forces to "defend" our diversely populated desert makes us mighty nervous.

"It's a recipe for disaster," Border Patrol spokesman Andy Adame says.

Our trained, seasoned and knowledgeable law officers and Border Patrol officials have high-tech tools, deep knowledge of border-area deserts and a clear understanding of laws that apply.

They're dancing as fast as they can. The advent of inexperienced thrill-seekers can only impede their progress. So Minutemen: Stop and think. Then do everyone a favor. Stay home.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=opinion&story_id=030705b4_edits

[Stauffenberg]

Off topic, but Rabbi, did you ever post at Totse?

If so, might you remember a hotheaded young buck by the name of Armed&Angry? :evil:

[Selfdfenz]

Our trained, seasoned and knowledgeable law officers and Border Patrol officials have high-tech tools, deep knowledge of border-area deserts and a clear understanding of laws that apply.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahah....


Editorial opinion from a media outlet* + 89 cents = cup of coffee

* and their opinions were founded in goofyness, bias and emotions :D

S-

[spartacus2002]

UNDOCUMENTED BORDER PATROL AGENTS!!!

They're just doing the jobs that Congresscritters won't do....

Upholding the laws doesn't stop at the border....

:D

[papaone]

None of this would be necessary if George Bush and our officials stepped up to the plate and did what they keep crowing,"Our main job is to protect Americans." Well, where is the beef George? It is a sad day in America when citizens feel they have to do these things because our leaders won't when they know full well that those who want to destroy us can find a path to so easily do so. :fire: :cuss: :banghead:
Just my .02

[TallPine]

The summons is for "volunteers" who may carry guns but won't be required to have concealed weapons permits.
Of course anyone may carry a gun in AZ as long as it is not concealed :rolleyes:

(In MT you can carry concealed without a permit as long as you are outside city limits :) )

[TallPine]

I went to their website and read the FAQs but I am still confused as to WHOSE land the patrol efforts will occur on ...?

Public (BLM) land, or specific private property ????

If on private land with the invitation of the owner, I would think no one could possibly have a (legitimate) beef with the MM activities because it is well within the rights of any landowner to take any security measures deemed necessary to protect his or her property.

[The Rabbi]

So what should those do who are deeply concerned about the threats that cross our borders?

I would say for starters that camping out for a month in a remote desert location and calling that "protest" is the wrong way to go. If anyone has noticed, protests are usually in well-populated areas like NY and Washington DC in order to get attention. It would be very easy (and just about guaranteed) for the media to ignore the whole event, which would render it useless.
The response should be same as it is for any other issue. Come up with solutions, organize, talk to politicians, gain proponents of the cause.
Why do you think the NRA has been so effective? Because they have millions of *voting* members, they have huge sources of funds to influence public opinion, and they have as a result access to elected officials. Those officials will take note of an organization that represents millions of people with a unified agenda. They will not take note of 852 camo-clad wannabes camping out in the desert for a month.

[armoredman]

Very odd that the Mexican government, and this MS13, (very violent prison gang) is more worried about the civilian volunteers, than our "highly trained professionals"....interesting....do you think they fear becoming room temperature? Noteriety and panic from the thugs and supporting government, nothing from out government, except the notorious moron Raul Grijalva, and interesting combination.....

[cory]

here's an an interesting article about terrorists and the border...
http://start.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20050308/422d3150_3ca6_1552620050308-2101505453

[itgoesboom]

It would be very easy (and just about guaranteed) for the media to ignore the whole event, which would render it useless.

Hmmm....not quite. Doing a quick news.yahoo.com search, I came up with 149 stories about the project. That includes wires services, TV news stations web sites, and newspapers.

And that is one month to go before the project actually starts.

Back when it was first announced it got even more publicity, including being featured on most of the cable news stations.

The reason that this is an effective protest is that it shows the government that if they aren't willing to tackle a problem, that the citizens are willing.

I.G.B.

[Desertdog]

Doing a quick news.yahoo.com search, I came up with 149 stories about the project. That includes wires services, TV news stations web sites, and newspapers.
Of the 149 stories does anybody know of ANY that says it is a good idea?

Or do they use this occasion to bash gun owners, and call us stupid to try to help protect the border.

[Art Eatman]

We can continue to speculate and fulminate, but until the gathering actually occurs, and the time of the "protest" comes about, nobody knows nuttin' 'bout nuttin'.

The organizers seem to be spending a good bit of effort to make sure that no gratuitous violence or harm is initiated by the group.

Desert training: "Drink lots of water." "Wear a hat." "Avoid sunburn." That'll suffice, sez me, but then I've only lived in a desert for 22 years, now. (Well, "Don't squat on a cactus!" comes to mind, but I rather think that's obvious...)

Knowledge of Law: You have to know the law in order to sit somewhere and watch what goes on? Gotta know the law in order to use a cell phone or radio?

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

:), Art

[The Rabbi]

Hmmm....not quite. Doing a quick news.yahoo.com search, I came up with 149 stories about the project. That includes wires services, TV news stations web sites, and newspapers

Well, there were 169 entries on the yahoo for the daf yomi siyum hashas and I would about guarantee that 90% of this board doesnt have a clue what that is.

[flatrock]

I would say for starters that camping out for a month in a remote desert location and calling that "protest" is the wrong way to go. If anyone has noticed, protests are usually in well-populated areas like NY and Washington DC in order to get attention.

You can protest in populated areas, but those protests often just piss off a lot of people in those areas because you're interfering with their lives.

You can also protest where the problem is in the hopes that you can bring attention to the problem through media coverage.

This protest appears to be getting media coverage, and will likely get more as it ramps up.

Protesting in DC is pretty much a waste, unless you have the mainstream media on your side. They see protesters every day on just about every subject and are less likely to be swayed directly. What you need to do is sway the people by bringing the issue to their attention, and then let them sawy the politicians.

[13A]

These folks are there to report CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. Just like Neighborhood Watch does.

[middy]

I think they will do a much better and more professional job than anyone thinks.

Think of yourself and your friends in that situation, you are going to think things through and come up with ways to avoid killing and/or being killed; unless you're out there eating Peyote buttons off the ground :D ... Why do we automatically assume that everyone else is stupid?

Rabbi, with that attitude this country would still end at the Appalachians. But, then again, a voice of moderation is always nice to have around.

[The Rabbi]

These folks are there to report CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. Just like Neighborhood Watch does.

Oh, I thought they were there to protest. :confused:

[itgoesboom]

Rabbi,

They are there to do both. Being there and reporting the activity is a protest since the government doesn't seem intrested in doing the job themselves.

I.G.B.

[Joey2]

This may be off topic.

The reason we have open borders with Mexico is because the U.S. is the pressure valve.

If we had closed borders the Mexicans would revolt against the corrupt government where mordita(sp) runs the government from the village to seat of government.

Bush is covering Fox's rear to keep him in power.

The name of the game is oil, power, and money.

The Bushes have deep roots with the Mexicans in oil deals and winning Shrubs run for office in Texas.

This government will come down hard against the patriots who step just one toe over the line defending our borders.

MS-13 is Mexico's mercenaries with no trace to either the U.S. or Mexican government.

[wingman]

The name of the game is oil, power, and money.



Ditto that.

[Brett Bellmore]

Don't forget the cheap labor who don't dare complain about working conditions, because they don't want to be deported. I suspect that's the biggest reason: Both major parties are in hock to industries that are hooked on illegal immigrant labor.

Of course, the cheap domestic servants are important, too.

[Jmurman]

"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're going to have a gun fight," said Adame.

Sounds to me like you have that now.

Oh, wait! I forget that ONLY the Govt can protect us! What was I thinking!