[PowderBurn]

From the Minneapolis StarTribune 3/8/05

Goodbye, Kitty?

If a firefighter from La Crosse gets his way, stray cats in Wisconsin could legally be blown from here to feline eternity. Not surprisingly, the proposal to allow the shooting of free-roaming cats has horrified cat lovers nationwide.

"This really crosses the line in human and cat relations," said Ted O'Donnell, owner of a pet supply store in Madison. He has set up a website called dontshootthecat.com. "I remember when firefighters used to rescue cats -- not shoot them."

This particular firefighter, 48-year-old Mark Smith, doesn't quite see what all the fuss is about.

"I get up in the morning and if there's new snow, there's cat tracks under my bird feeder," Smith told the Associated Press "I look at them as an invasive species, plain and simple."

Trophy animal?Using that logic, he has asked Wisconsin officials to designate free-roaming domesticated cats as members of an "unprotected species" that could be shot on sight by anyone holding a small-game license.

Smith's proposal will be placed before the public April 11 at the Wisconsin Conservation Congress' annual spring hearings in each of the state's 72 counties.

The congress serves as an advisory group to that state's Department of Natural Resources.

"We're just going to have to pass on the citizens' recommendation to the [DNR], and they'd have to take it to the Legislature to get the law changed," said Steve Oestreicher, chairman of the Conservation Congress, who described his reaction to the proposal as "kind of a toss-up. People aren't aware of how many songbirds common house cats kill every year. They're surprised at what that critter is capable of."

But Oestreicher added: "There's no need for people to scream bloody murder that we're going to let people start shooting cats, because that's not going to happen."

Making a case

Scientific rationale for the plugging proposal is contained in a 1996 paper published by University of Wisconsin ecology Prof. Stanley Temple.

He calculated that an estimated 1.4 million free-ranging cats in Wisconsin's rural areas were responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 7.8 million to 219 million birds every year.

"It's obviously a very controversial proposal," Temple said. "I think there really is a basis for having a debate about it."

O'Donnell said the study was scientifically flawed and ignores alternatives, such as trapping and euthanizing such cats. Even better would be to adopt a policy of trapping, neutering and returning them to the wild, according to Alley Cat Allies, a nationwide cat-advocacy group.

"The idea of open season on cats, of going out and shooting them is just inhumane," said Alley Cat spokeswoman Jessica Frohman. "And it's not going to work because as soon as you get rid of one, you've opened a food source for more cats. You'll never get rid of them that way."

Frohman's organization has never encountered such a plan in any other state. A Minnesota Department of Natural Resources spokesman said no one in the state has ever floated such an idea.

As an alternative to shooting the state's cats, the Minnesota DNR and several birding organizations have sponsored a campaign called "Cats Indoors! Minnesota Project," which tries to educate cat owners to keep their pets indoors where they can't stalk and kill birds.

"A lot of people don't realize the toll cats can take on wildlife," said campaign spokeswoman Andrea Lee Lambrecht. "But having a shooting match with the neighborhood cats would be a real unfortunate outcome. We don't villainize cats in this country."

In fact, Americans are so enamored of their cats that they have made felines the most popular pet species in the nation, which could help explain the blistering opposition to the idea of shooting cats. In addition to the 77.6 million cats owned in the United States, the estimate for the number of feral cats -- cats that were domesticated but are living outdoors -- is in the tens of millions.

"I've gotten hundreds of e-mails from all over the country and Canada," O'Donnell said. "This is a ridiculous idea."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Bob von Sternberg is at vonste@startribune.com.

[critter]

Our home place is quite rural. Far too many people seem to think it is just jolly fine to 'drop off' their surplus kitties near there. We wind up with an excessive number of cats that live in the woods and mostly live off the land. They then multiply and eat any domestic cat/dog food we have out, hunt any and all song birds at the bird feeders and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

Only one solution: S-S-S!!!*

*In case you don't know, that is "shoot, shovel and shut up".

[Diamondback]

I have no problem with folks eradicating pesky stray /feral cats in order to decrease the surplus population. There have been several threads here which document their destructive impact on native song bird populations. Personally I would ask "around' first before I went around "popping" stray felines so as not to eliminate a family pet and give the owner a chance to remedy the issue. Seems like the neighborly thing to do. However in rural environs S,S,& SU seems like a reasonable approach if your being over run ! When pets cross the line and become pesks something needs to be done !

-regards

[craig]

people dump cats and dogs out here all the time. the local animal control office is a joke so we take care of it. i'd much rather take care of the people who dump animals but that's a felony. i feel sorry for the animals but when they destroy my property they have to go.

[redneck]

Some people just won't ever understand. The difference between a feral cat and a house cat is pretty much the same as the difference between a rabid coon and a house cat. They're diseased, aggressive, destructive,overpopulated and have no fear of people. They aren't pets and can't be made into pets.

[dakotasin]

yesterday was cat #6 since the first of the year. don't know how many more are out that i haven't seen yet or haven't made it into the traps yet, but i shoot feral cats on sight, and regard them as i do skunks.

if people don't like the idea of cats being shot, then quit dumping them, and fix the ones you already have.

[one-shot-one]

if I find kitty lounging on the hood of my vehicle I aint asking who it belongs to, I’m going to apply a dose of .177 lead to its brain. I am not a cat person unless it weighs in over 45 lbs.

[JohnKSa]

A friend of mine recently moved to the country.

He's currently dealing with the "cat situation". He's adopted a couple of the strays in the area, paid for their shots, is having them sterilized, etc., but now he's having trouble with the other ferals chewing up the adoptions.

He's going to pay a few more vet bills before he figures out that cat lovers have to kill feral cats too...

["yote"]

The MN DNR rates feral cats as the #1 threat to Pheseant populations outside
of loss of habitat. If we jump a cat while bird hunting, the bird hunting stops
until the cat is dead! And my 2 Labs know what to do with wild cats. If they don't kill them, they tree them. 1-3/8oz of 4 shot does the rest.

P.S. If I see a cat in the country and there isn't a farm house within a 1/2
mile that cat is going to get shot at.

[giancarlo]

I love cats, have had cats all my life. But yes, there is a difference between feral cats and domesticated.
I remember a Crocodile Hunter episode where they were talking about how feral cats had almost eliminated all of the indigenous species of critters in a certain area, including species that were endangered.
As much as I love cats, I have no problem with hunting feral populations when they're overrunning an area.

[Art Eatman]

The magazine article wherein I first read of the Wisconsin study also stated that an unenforced law on the books in that state requires hunters to kill feral cats.

IIRC, the study claimed that one feral cat eats as many as one hundred songbirds per year. The estimate was that there are some one million feral cats in the state of Wisconsin.

Knowing what feral cats do to small game populations, and having the regard for quail that I do, I have no compunction about shooting any feral cat I see.

Art

[bean357]

I share the opinion that feral cats need SSS. Within the first year of moving into my rural residence, I took care of 17 (!!!) of them. I wondered why there were never any songbirds birds at my feeders. After the second year, I it was over 30 of the cats. Six years later, I have lost count of the unwanted felines that have visited and failed to leave the yard on their own feet, but I now have many songbirds at my feeders, as well as pheasants and partridge in the grove. I would not want to shoot anyone's pet, and there are not any neighbors close. As mentioned by others, the cats can also be destructive to personal property. They have gotten into our outbuildings and not been nice. We all know what tom cat p can do alone!!

[halvey]

While I agree mostly with everything said, I like the couple of strays roaming around my place. They keep the mouse population in check.

As a side, I have more problems with dogs. I think they should extend this to dogs too. They are more of a nusiance around here than cats.

[yorec]

"This really crosses the line in human and cat relations,"

Line? What line? There is no line or relations with feral cats and people. A feral cat is wild and untameable, onry in the extreme, and always hungry - hope that pet shop guy gets one gift wrapped in a box, he needs the education. (Course he'd probably figure the poor little kitty had been abused as a kitten and sick the SPCA on whoever gave it to him... :rolleyes: )

But then again, who could get close enough to catch one to give him? Oh yeah... Live traps, lol!

The only good feral cat is a flat one on the highway. At least it feeds the magpie poulation.

[ChiefAutoParts]

Do we have any idea if this new law is looking like it's going ot get passed or not? I'd like to see it get passed in Wisconsin. And then in Texas, then In South Dakota, and then...maybe people will "see the light" and we'll have something like that here in Utah and in other states where they are legitamate problems. If these felines are freeroaming, they should be legal to shoot. Isn't it illegal for these people to drop their unwanted cats off in the rural parts anyhow? Total lack of responsibility.

[halvey]

This isn't even a proposed law. It's some guy taking the issue to the DNR which has no chance to go anywhere. From there, it'd go to the legislature.

I think people are making different distinctions here. If you believe the story as written - and I'm not sure I do - the guy wants to be able to shoot ALL cats. Feral cats are different. At least in the rural areas in Minnesota - not sure about Wisconsin, you can shoot animals on your property if they are causing damage or are a nusiance.

[dakotasin]

back in january i got a new rem 700 adl in 300 win mag. put the leupold 2.5-8 in talleys, butler creek caps, a bipod, and there it sat.

finally, i got a chance to shoot this morning, so i fired a couple shots to get on paper and set my 100 yard zero, and then i had to go... on my way home, what did i see but another feral cat... 300 win mag, 96 yards (lasered), first blood for this rifle, and #7 on the year...

i'm tired of feral cats. they are a nusiance. and halvey's comments about dogs are true, too... was out bowhunting and had a group of 4 come after me... so, anymore, stray dogs are treated exactly the same as stray cats.

[Shalako]

feral cat... 300 win mag, 96 yards

I'm curious about bullet performance. Have you got any pictures? :evil:

[one-shot-one]

i do not see a differance between "feral" cats and fluffy next door when the owners (can you really own a cat?) turn it loose all nite and most of the day to roam etc. i'm all for shooting any stray animal that is harming my property, only because you would get in trouble for taking it out on the negligent "owner".

[dakotasin]

shalako- lol! no, no pics. what sucks is i meant to take the camera to the range and forgot it - not that i would've taken pics of the cat, but i didn't even have the camera so its moot...

bullet performance... well...i shot, and thru the scope i saw the back half of the cat just fall and then the front part just fell... no jumping, screeching, or anything else. oh, yeah... also thru the scope, i saw a 'something' launch about 15-20' into the air. i didn't go look because, frankly, i just don't care, but i *think* it was dirt - though it was a black cat...

drove by the area this afternoon on my way to town... still laying there. thought the crows/coons/skunks/yotes etc would've had their way by now, but he's still there.

[Roadkill]

My wife tolerates me and my gun habit, not a gun person at all. Twenty years ago she took my Rossi stagecoach 12 ga and blew a cat off the porch with #4. No tolerance for a critter threatening her middle child. In all my years of hunting I've never had a wild animal attack me, has happened several times with feral cats. They sure jump high when you hit them.

rk

[mpthole]

Any Wisconsinites that are at all interested in this need to go to their local DNR/Conservation Congress meeting. The one in La Crosse (where this guys is from) is coming up on April 11th (?) I believe at the Onalaska high school at 7pm. The animal rights groups are coming out of the woodwork on this one and a group from Madison has already "threatened" to bring several bus loads of people here for that meeting.

Friends of Mark Smith have taken up watch over his house because of threats he has received. The police cannot keep a squad there because of lack of manpower. No, I don't have a link-able source on this... but a source that I trust.

[Mannlicher]

Like most predatore populations, they are darn hard to stamp out. I ran a restaurant for years, that sat right by an Interstate. In the woods by the on ramp, a colony of feral cats lived. I would leave the lid up on the dumpster, and sit across the parking lot with a Remington 521t .22, and shoot them when they would jump up on the dumpster. With a good head shot, they would tumble in. Then I would just wait for another one. I lost count of the cats I shot that way, but over a 5 year period, it must have been over a hundred. I still shoot every cat I can get a bead on.

[Remington788]

P.S. If I see a cat in the country and there isn't a farm house within a 1/2
mile that cat is going to get shot at.

What he said. :evil:

[thorn726]

wow, i had no idea this was such a problem.
in the city, you have crazy cat lady or man here and there, but the strays, sure there are a few sometimes causing problems, but i think cars keep the population down.

i love cats, have one , and mine is from a cat wacko who basically had his cats near-feral, mine was the more domesticated of the bunch

most of them are now better off dead, one or two cats keep mice down. 10 or 20 pee everywhere, fight, and ferals are not friendly.

i cant believe some of the numbers you guys are talking, and way out in nowhere- amazing.

seems like might as well let a small pop survive for something to shoot at!
heheh

[Art Eatman]

thorn, rest assured that feral cats are like coyotes: Nobody, but nobody, will ever kill the last and final one.

:), Art

[dakotasin]

oh, but i tried to today! didn't get the last one - i think there's still one more out there. i did however dust off a skunk at 12:37 pm... he was looking funny, and charged my truck. probably rabid. i tried a 150 grains of cup-n'-core out of my 300 win mag on for size. was a perfect fit, so i let him wear it.

[Bear Gulch]

I love and have pet cats. I also recognize the impact of feral critters on wildlife, especially game birds. I am an avid bow hunter for skunks, coons, and other "varmits". The bow also insures that there are no pesky calls from neighbors. All of these crreatures can be huge vectors for the spread of rabies, distemper and other diseases.

[sturmruger]

The feral cat problem nationwide is worse then the feral pig problems in some of the Southern States. One of the biggest problems are people that drop their pets off out in the country. They think they are going to live with all the other animals like some sort of Disney movie, but the reality is they just breed and eat all sorts of animals that we don't want them to. I have practiced SSS my whole life.

[NRA4LIFE]

My funniest feral cat story goes something like this: NRA4LIFE and wife move into new house, 2 pet cats in tow. Young male pet cat liked to hang out outside. Mr. Feral, gnarly cat decides to take up residence and fight with young male pet cat. Mr. Feral then decided to start spraying on some carpet I had in the garage. Walked into the house and yelled to my wife upstairs if she minded if I shot Mr. Gnarly. Apparently, Mrs. NRA4LIFE did not sense my urgency. Went to the safe, grabbed the 10-22 and exterminated Mr. Gnarly from the kitchen window. Mrs. NRA4LIFE hollers down "I didn't mean right now!". I did.

[dakotasin]

funny feral cat stories...

was a feral cat at the end of the driveway, maybe 150 yards from where my brother and i were. he grabs the 338, and takes aim from the off-hand position, then says 'wanna see something funny?' i say of course...

he hits the switch and 225 grains of hornady are enroute to the patch of dirt just behind and below the cat. the cat instantaneously shrieks, and launches about 6' into the air while spraying diarrhea. cat seriously looked like it was rocket propelled.