[Drizzt]

Gun shows draw smaller crowds
State laws, development cited for diminishing interest
By LEROY STANDISH/Staff Writer

VICTORVILLE — For the past 20 years, Anda Padgett and her family have promoted gun shows throughout the state.

She has seen the faces and the guns come and go, but lately the faces and the guns are becoming fewer and fewer.

"I'll admit that California has about smothered us to death with all the laws, and it has really slowed the shows down," said Padgett, owner of Central Coast Gun Shows. "It's slowly going."

Gun shows, like the one she promoted Saturday and Sunday at the San Bernardino County Fairgrounds, allow gun enthusiasts a place to get together to talk guns and to trade and sell.

"They'll come in and talk about things, hunting stories, and won't leave for two days," she said.

But those coming to do the trading, the buying, the selling and the talking are on the decline, said David Halbrook, chairman of the High Desert Friends of NRA.

"Shooting is not as popular as it once was — too much development, too many houses," he said. "It's pretty much a dying sport."

He pointed at the rifles and handguns displayed on the tables surrounding his blue tableclothed surface, covered with National Rifle Association promotional materials. He noted that just one of the 50 or so weapons within sight was made after 1980.

"You don't see a lot of new stuff coming into the sport," he said.

Terry Holloway — who was not selling guns, but gun accessories — also noted the decline in the numbers of gun enthusiasts. He said state regulations are making it too much of a bother to own a gun.

"It is just too difficult in California," Holloway said. "All the laws, rules and regulations anymore — it is just too big of a pain anymore."

To purchase any firearm here, buyers must conduct the purchase through a licensed firearms dealer, prove residency, pass a background check, pay state fees and wait 10 days, according to the state Attorney General's office. If everything checks out, they can then receive their purchase. For handguns, purchasers also must have a handgun safety permit, and purchases are limited to one every 30 days.

Guns are not the only things to see at the show after paying the $8 entrance fee — it also is a place to see all manner of weaponry for personal protection, including Tasers and knives. And a place to buy delectables such as jerkied meats.

Doug Hammond, an employee of the Seventh Street Pawn Shop in Victorville, stood behind a table lined with rifles and handguns under glass. He disputed the notion that gun shows were slowly becoming things of the past.

"It's not being promoted," he said. "It's just the promotion. It is not a dying thing."

Many of the weapons he had on display and available in the neighboring booths were collectibles or hunting rifles. And those are for the market the show caters to — collectors, hunters and responsible gun owners, he said.

"The truth is you got honest citizens involved," Hammond said. "It's not like it is portrayed. You don't have 'gangbangers' coming through here. You got honest citizens here."

Central Coast Gun Shows has scheduled 10 shows throughout the state this year, and will return to Victorville in October.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/2005/111020501785924.html

To purchase any firearm here, buyers must conduct the purchase through a licensed firearms dealer, prove residency, pass a background check, pay state fees and wait 10 days, according to the state Attorney General's office.
Which sounds REAL convenient for a 2-day show....

[RKCheung]

Although the fascist gun laws do share some blame, I'd say gun shows are mostly declining because admission is high, prices are high, and selection sucks.

[Mark8252]

I live in Colorado.
Personally I believe the biggest reason people are not going to the gun shows like before is because they are realizing they can get a better deal from their local gun dealer. I go to more shows than most people and I have found this to be true. Seems that many dealers at the shows are looking for the individual that simply does not know any better. If they make a great deal they are simply good business men/women. If we get a good deal we are just cheap.
By far the best place I have found to buy a firearm is a pawn shop.

[lwaldron]

I've only been to one gunshow here. The Crossroads of the West comes through San Diego twice a year (about). When I went, it was a disappointment. High admission price, high gun prices, not many guns that I found interesting (I like milsurps). I made a point of taking the time to check every table.
I WAS able to buy some brass Mosin-Nagant stripper clips... 4 of them at $5 apiece!!!!!
Anyway, between my C&R license, and the availability of stuff on the internet, I don't see any reason to go to any more guns shows here in SD.
Now, if Sportsmansguide would only get around to shipping the Garand cartridge belt I ordered BACK IN JANUARY...

[Standing Wolf]

Seems that many dealers at the shows are looking for the individual that simply does not know any better.

Yep. Sucker pricing seems to be the coming thing, which is one of the main reasons I go to very few gun shows any more.

[50 Shooter]

The one guy they interviewed nailed it, they've never promoted that show. All the stuff is over priced (even the beef jerky), from the beanie babies to all the firearms. That's what's killing what's left of the gun shows here.

[Sir Aardvark]

Since Great Western was kicked out of the L.A. Fairgrounds, shows haven't been the same in SoCal.

[deej]

To purchase any firearm here, buyers must conduct the purchase through a licensed firearms dealer, prove residency, pass a background check, pay state fees and wait 10 days, according to the state Attorney General's office. If everything checks out, they can then receive their purchase. For handguns, purchasers also must have a handgun safety permit, and purchases are limited to one every 30 days.


Is this the infamous "gun show loophole?"

[UberPhLuBB]

I was at that show on Sunday. It wasn't empty, but it wasn't a seething, auction-like raucus either.

The problem I saw was twofold. Lack of inventory, and rediculous prices. Plenty of $300+ SKS's that looked like they'd been backed over by trucks though (I'll pass, thanks). I brought my C&R for nothing, but I did give the sponsors my $4 at the door for no particular reason. :D

[dave3006]

The internet that Algore invented is the biggest factor. You can get better deals online with no sales tax. I only go to gunshows to fondle a gun or two before I buy it online.

[Checkman]

I stopped going to gunshows a couple years ago. Like most of the other posters I find the prices high and the selection to be so-so. I have bought one gun at a show and a couple of weeks latr I saw the exact same model for forty dollars less in a shop. Whoops. Now I buy from shops and catalogs - like Cabelas. But I have to disagree with one of the sellers that they interviwed in that article. Here in Idaho shooting is not a dying sport - even with development. The local Sportsman is selling guns like crazy to the local suburbanites. I also see new guns coming out every year. Of course shooting might be dying in California which is too bad. That's a weird state.

[Bear Gulch]

Our local gun shows have the same stuff every time. So if you have your fill of those items, there isn't much to interest you. Prices are very high to sucker the newbies. I have seen MOsin Nagant 91 30s priced at 300 bucks for an aresenal refinish.

[Nitram68]

I think that's because people are movnig away from that state :rolleyes:

[Bear Gulch]

Can you cash and carry at **** guns shows?

[ralphie98]

To purchase any firearm here, buyers must conduct the purchase through a licensed firearms dealer, prove residency, pass a background check, pay state fees and wait 10 days, according to the state Attorney General's office. If everything checks out, they can then receive their purchase. For handguns, purchasers also must have a handgun safety permit, and purchases are limited to one every 30 days
I need to read stuff like this to remind myself why I don't move to California or NYC. Minnesota may be a liberal state, but at least I don't need to jump through these hoops when buying a gun

[Gordon Fink]

Can you cash and carry at **** guns shows?

Not “legally” in most cases.

~G. Fink

[4v50 Gary]

Besides our anti-gun laws, parking fee, admission fee, beef-jerkey, t-shirt, neo-Nazi memorabilia (ahem, junk), over-priced guns, arrogant sellers is why I really don't go to CA gun shows anymore.

[Mute]

These shows would do much better if you can actually get something good for a reasonable price besided beef jerky and crappy airsoft guns.

[Bear Gulch]

I can tell you where you can see over priced winchester collertor guns. lol

[Shalako]

I think Dave3006 nailed it. Before the Internet, the gunshow was the only place you could go and drool over the huge selection of stuff you just couldn't see at Mom&Pops Gunshop. Without the internet, maybe Shotgun News was the only place you could compare prices on stuff you'd never have the opportunity to see and touch in person. Now, with the internet you can drool to your hearts content all day long at mesmerizing color photos of custom jobs and hear about the best price in the actual world within minutes of its availability. Then you have awesome forums like this one. You can hang out with full blown gun nuts and even make lasting friendships.

Gun shows are passe. The only reason I go anymore is for bulk ammo from Miwall.

[bill2]

I haven't been to a gun show in over a year. I used to go to the ones at the Santa Clara county fairgrounds, and once in awhile up to Sacramento. But you pay $8 to get in, and once in all you see is over priced guns, some knives, BS t-shirts like "kill 'em all, let God sort them out", and just general flea market garbage. I just can't think of a good reason to go to one anymore.

[ScorpioVI]

Went to the SF Cow Palace show several weeks ago. What a sad state of affairs we got ourselves into. About 30% of the tables actually had guns. Of that 30%, only two tables had modern handguns and rifles (M1As, SU-16s), most of the rest were C&R type tables. The rest of the tables had airsoft, knives, gun/gear bags, T-shirts, personal defense crap, books and jerky. And I saw nothing that I can consider a "deal".

The funny thing was we brought a friend who recently got into guns, and his reaction was, "WHOA!". I told him he should've gone to a gun show pre-1999, he might have had a heart-attack. I still want to take him across the border to a Reno gun show, show him what a real gun show looks like.

[bill2]

are the gun shows in Reno that much better? more guns and less beef jerky and assorted garbage?

[ScorpioVI]

Well, the jerky and crap are still there, but they have REAL guns over there. :fire:

(And other advantages that I'm not even going to mention in an online forum)

[Sawdust]

(And other advantages that I'm not even going to mention in an online forum)

Not even any hints? :confused:

Sawdust

[BenW]

I agree with my Calif compadres who lay some of the blame on the shows. It's $7-8 to get in, $5 parking at the closest one for me. That's around 12 bucks to view often overpriced items.

My strategy of late is to only go to the shows when I need ammo, powder, primers or bullets, then buy large quantities of those. If I pick up other incidentals during the same trip, then I don't feel as gouged as I do if I buy say, just a couple of ammo cans for $5, which end up costing $17 if I add the fee just to walk through the front door.

[GW]

The old Cow Palace shows were really something, sometimes using 2 or more rooms and there was everything you could think of . Guns, Ammo. knives and other stuff with multiple vendors selling stuff that was well, interesting at least. You could bargain with dealers too and generally, it was just a great time. Then the CA AWB went into effect and that was a major nail in the coffin of gun shows here
The gun shows are dying because they forgot about the internet and
They forgot about local shops. I have never seen a deal on a gun at a gunshow that I couldn't easily beat at any of the local gunshops. I have never seen a deal on an accessory that I couldn't easily bet on the web and thats including shipping
Surplus ammo and jerky are about it for the gunshows here, but when you think about it, even they aren't such great deals
for example I went to the SF cow palace show this weekend
round trip =6 gallons gas = $12
parking = $8
admission (with my $1 discount pass was $9 (IIRC)
So... I spent $29 to save $6 on ammo
Now, if I shine 6 Bay area shows
I will have saved $180, which will buy me a weekend in Reno, where they still have a quality gunshow. The show in San Jose is even worse, it really is the dregs
6 years ago these shows were events that you planned your weekend around
Any more, I'll just stay home and mow the lawn. (after I get back from the range)

[Bear Gulch]

The last few that I have been to in Idaho have offers used stuff for new prices. It seems that if a guy sold good quality at a good price, he'd do alright. It seems that many vendors want to make a huge profit per gun instead of making money off of more modest (but more plentiful) sales.

[C96]

I usually go to two or three gun shows a year around here. Some prices are good at these,
most prices are not, but that's OK with me.

I go because I want to see and handle firearms that are of interest to me. Looking
at something on the net just ain't enough. And once in a great while I'll find something
of interest that is priced right. :)

I do have a very good local shop that will get me most anything I want at
20 to 50 bucks over his cost, my son works there, but I do want to handle
some of these critters first.

And the gun shows around here will usually have at least one vendor with a lot
of new ammo for sale and at good prices.

If I'm gonna go shopping, it might as well be at a gun show.

allan

[stealthmode]

i only go to renew my nra membership for 10 dollars less and i get in free to the show. cant buy anything useful except ammo in california.

[Jim Diver]

The gun shows in this area have been getting worse and worse. Hardly 50 tables at the last one. They used to be good sized, now they are not worth going to.

[carp killer]

Gun shows are much better outside of **********. :neener:

[Cosmoline]

Don't read too much into this. I know many, many folks in the local shooting community who stopped going to gun shows completely over the past decade. And I can tell you the shooting sports are NOT on the decline in any way, shape or form in Alaska. The fact is too many gun shows have gone from being real bargain spots to places where grumpy jerks sell massively overpriced firearms or useless gewgaws. You're more likely to find a real bargain in a store's back shelves or in an on-line auction.

[LiquidTension]

I remember when shows at the State Fairgrounds here in SC were pretty good. One even took up two rooms. Admission used to be $5, is now $6. Also, they started charging for parking (another $1), so I stopped going. The show at Jamil Temple doesn't charge for parking, so I go there when I need to. I haven't bought anything other than reloading stuff and ammo at a show in the past 2 or 3 years. Only deals I ever found were my Mossberg for $200 and a hard-chromed P7 for $650.

Primers and powder are the only things that are consistently cheaper at shows, mostly because of the shipping and hazmat fees. Sometimes ammo is cheaper, but with AIM selling cases of .308 for $164 including shipping even that's getting rare. Nowadays gun shows are filled with dealers that think $350 is reasonable for an SKS, $1000 is "below dealer cost" for basic configuration Oly Arms ARs, and of course there are the guys with the $35 Wilson mags :rolleyes: If they'd drop their prices to $25, they'd still be making 4 or 5 bucks off of them and I would have bought a half dozen of them by now. As it is, they get no sales because they are greedy.

Gun shows will continue to get crappier until the greedy dealers (not all of them, I know) realize that they will make more money if they quit gouging the customers. With the internet being in so many homes nowadays, people realize how much stuff costs and refuse to buy stuff that's marked up too high. It's entirely possible to turn a profit without ripping people off, and repeat customers are worth a lot more than the two or three ignorant people that actually pay $20 for your FAL mags :fire:

[GW]

Gun shows are much better outside of **********.
Well at least our trailer parks don't get blown to flinders by tornados

See, its easy to find something positive to say about California ;)
Guns shows used to be like the SHOT show with all sorts of vendors selling all sorts of cool stuff but now as said many times before Way overpriced junk and take it or leave it attitudes. There was some guy selling used FAL rear sights for $85!!
I chose to leave it

[Checkman]

Cosmoline-

Man you nailed it. It seems that most of the dealers are "grumpy jerks". I've seen dealers almost get in fistfights with shoppers at the local gunshow and I perosonally was treated like an idiot by one dealer of Winchesters. Now whatever my faults might be when it comes to knowledge of Winchesters you better treat me with some respect if you want my business. And if you find the idea of people handling your precious rifles to be too much then what in the heck are you doing at a GUNSHOW?? It seems to me that many of the folks at gunshows don't have a clue about what it means to be retail. And when you sell guns that's what your profession is - retail.

[The_Antibubba]

I went one year to Sacramento's "Gun, Knife, and Doll" show (and that should tell you EVERYTHING right there), and I've been to the big Reno show, and the difference were truly amazing. At Reno, most of the sellers were, if not friendly, then far less rude-and some were very friendly indeed. I think it had to do with the fact that there were several hundred other dealers in the place that one could take his business to. Prices were reasonable. Nowhere did I hear the crackle of a stun gun, and there were no jerky sellers-NONE. It was like a celebration of guns, gun culture, and gun history. It took my breath away.

The Sac show was nothing like that. The word that comes to mind is miserly, as if what little they had was all they were ever going to have, and that the show-goers weren't going to get it without a fight, and we were lucky they were even there at all. And yes, ********** law does make it hard on gun shows, but those show dealers need to understand that we don't actually need them-we have shops and dealers already, and most of them deal with us much more fairly than the exhibitors do.

Gun shows were once the only way to see so many guns in one place at one time, but as others have pointed out, the Internet has changed all that. If gun shows are to survive, the attitude, approach, and culture will have to change.

[standingbear]

UHMMMMM its not just in CA these days.


they got surplus clothing and shovels, nazi memorabilia,shotguns from the 1930s up to the 1980s..all rusty or scratched and very expensive.Saw the 1100 dollar 1911s,the saa colts,and the brycos, someones bubba'd mossberg for 600 bucks, c&r stuff but he wanted cash,no trades,swords,books,pocket knives,watches and baseball cards...the funniest thing..a ruger 10/22.. the rare sniper model.. that said "preban" with a butler creek folder-the finish was missing and someone spray painted it camo colors.500 bucks and he would throw in the sanford 50 round drum mag and the used scope that had been wrapped in electrical tape.I think he thought I would seriously buy that monstrosity.

cant forget the food stand..hot dogs that literally explode in ones gut on the way home.they should start selling tums or alka seltzer or including them in a combo special with each hot dog.

[Rockrivr1]

Here in Massachusetts the gun shows only happen during a few months of the year so the ones that do go on are pretty busy. This upcoming weekend there is one at the Big E and the place is usually packed. It would seem though that the vendors have the same problems as everywhere else. They charge WAY to much for the guns there. I've never bought one at a gun show because of these reasons. I like to go because Mass doesn't allow online purchases of ammo, so these shows are the only way to get bulk ammo at a decent price.

[atek3]

here in the PRK we call them 'jerky shows'

atek3

[50 Freak]

Gosh, I really miss the big Pomona shows, they used to advertise "8 miles of tables". This was of course before pre-1990. I remember going at 8 in the morning and walking till about 6 and not fully seeing the whole show.

[enfield]

I'll give ya a hint. My wife and I went to the gun show in Delmar CA a couple of years ago. $7 to park and $9 admission. 25 bucks gone and I hadn't even seen a Beanie Baby yet. :scrutiny:

[GW]

Yep That describes the last San Jose gun show
Severely gouged before you get in the door
15 minutes to see everything (thats because 80% of it is the same junk that was there the last time you were there)

I left feeling like the time I lost a $20 bill at the grocery store --wasted money, wasted time :banghead:

I headed over to the local gunshop where as I walked in a fellow was just saying he was heading to the gun show. I told him he would be better off spending the money on ammo in the store because at least he'd have something for his money and not feel like an idiot for going to that lousy show.
He listened to me
I wish I had :mad:

[benEzra]

He pointed at the rifles and handguns displayed on the tables surrounding his blue tableclothed surface, covered with National Rifle Association promotional materials. He noted that just one of the 50 or so weapons within sight was made after 1980.

"You don't see a lot of new stuff coming into the sport," he said.
That's because California outlaws the sale of most of the interesting, modern rifles. I wouldn't go to a gun show either if all there was to see was tables full of Remchesters, and I had to wait 10 days to bring anything home.