[Study Butte]

Check this site out.
http://www.citizensunited.org/boycott.html:evil:

[Atticus]

I'm not a wine drinker or an H&K fan. Do they make anything else?

[Monkeyleg]

Well, they used to make the Renault Le Car. I junked mine about twenty years ago (after only 20,000 miles). Absolutely the worst car ever made. The mirrors fell off. The windows fell out. The doors broke off. The starter failed, which required the entire engine to be pulled to replace it.

If we pull out of the UN and reshuffle NATO, leaving France in a very lone position, I'm very anxious to see what kind of self-defense technology they can develop. BTW, lying prone with your arms outstretched is not technology.

[Atticus]

Ha...funny you should mention Renault. My Dad bought one sometime around 1962-63. The only thing I remember about the thing, was it sitting in our driveway with steam pouring out of the radiator.

I used to play in it a lot, but don't remember going anywhere in it..ever. Then one day it was gone. A valuable lesson I shoulda remembered.

It's kind of ironic to me now, knowing that my dad got a hankering for one after being stationed in France and Germany in 1945-46. I'll have to pull out that old pile of zwanzig million Deutchmarks for old times sake. One couldn't buy a loaf of bread with them at the time.

[Blackhawk]

Easy for me to do! :neener:

[twoblink]

Steyrs are from Austria!! :) And they aren't sellouts to RKBA like grock!

[T.Stahl]

Well, there aren't many good goods coming from the USA in the first place, so it will be easy for me to do without the American stuff I was about to buy. Too bad my brother has already ordered a Leupold. :(

[Atticus]

T.Stahl - That's do to trade barriers - not lack of production. What browser are you using? How often do you read instructions in English. How often do you think we read instructions in German or French? A little hint ....never.

[BobK]

Now that was intelligent! Our $$$$$$$$ are pretty good, though! Why are German companies setting up in the USA?
What would the economy of Europe be today, without the help
of American dollars? I think the Europeans are going to find out
in the near future!!!!!! :what: :neener:

[T.Stahl]

Atticus, everyday I read and write more English than German, more then three quarters of the books on my bookshelf are written in English, all the handbooks for the FEM programs I worked with were written in English.
It's just simpler for all of us. Who would want to translate a 1300+ pages NASTRAN Quick Reference Guide when (almost) all German engineers speak English and a translation doesn't really improve the understanding of the program?

T.Stahl - That's do to trade barriers - not lack of production.

I guess a higher percentage of Americans is driving German cars than Germans driving American cars and that that is not due to the availability (or lack thereof) of American cars in Germany. ;)

How often do you think we read instructions in German or French? A little hint ....never.

How many American engineers speak enough German to make use of the Dubbel (the engineer's handbook)? ;)

[Tamara]

I guess a higher percentage of Americans is driving German cars than Germans driving American cars and that that is not due to the availability (or lack thereof) of American cars in Germany. ;)

Nonsense! My BMW was imported all the way from South Carolina. That's what BMW stands for, "Bubba Makes Wheels", right? ;)

(If a Z3 roadster or ML430 Benz is a German car, then an Opel Senator or Ford Sierra is an American car, right?)

[DeltaElite]

Sighhhhhhhhh and I want a Walter P99 40sw. :(
When did the Germans become such a bunch of cowards?
I think we are seeing the results of all the breeding with the French during WWII, it has destroyed the Germans courage. ;)

[seeker_two]

And Turkey. Don't forget Turkey.

(So much for the .380 & Turkish Mausers I've desired...:mad: )

[T.Stahl]

Ok, Audi TTs are made (for the most part) in Györ/Hungaria, Porsche Boxsters are made in Finland, Cherokees are made by Puch in Austria, Jettas come from Mexico,... . ;)

(Senator? Sierra? Uh, that was a looong time ago. I had a rather unpleasant encounter with a Sierra more than ten years ago, when he stole my right of way. He lost. :D )

[Soap]

I'll continue buying (and driving) French and German products simply because I am a consumer. I'm not going to hurt the producers in those countries simply because their governments are annoying. Hell, my government annoys me, should I go "Argh! Boycott! Otherwise you're not an American!" Give me a break. This simplistic shield bashing is not only silly, its also hurting everyone economically...yes including yourself.

I must be the most "un-American" American alive since I'm about to drive my M-B riding on Michelin tires while wearing Givenchy cologne and aftershave with a Bic pen in my bag.

[MonkeyMan]

How's this? We make the Germans drive French cars and make the French drink German wine? That should do it?:D :evil:

[Mike Irwin]

The French would get the better of that deal, Monkey.

German wines are pretty damned good.

I think the better thing would be to make the French eat German food.

As for reading the Dubble, or anything else, in German, why should I bother? English is the international language of business.

The only reason I learned Spanish is so I could order McDonald's in Washington, DC.

[Russ]

The intake manifolds on Ford Explorers and Expeditions are made by a German owned company. There is no way to effectively boycott items from a given country in today's economy. Things are made all over the place.

[CZ-75]

Or the German made ZF transmissions (though they do make some around Batavia, OH) on several models of both Ford and GM stuff. Probably Daimler-Chrysler stuff, too.

T. Stahl,

I'd dare say that more Americans drive Japanese cars than European makes. Though, it would be fair to point out that many of these are Japanese in name only, having been assembled at US (or Canadian) plants.

I thank God everyday that I had the good sense NOT to buy a Volkswagen after all. Lousy reliability w/ both clutches on 1.8 turbos and electrical problems galore.

[Atticus]

Actually, I like most things German, including the German people I've met...which is why this political situation pains me so. Like many Americans, my German genetics run deep. One side of my family was German- both sides of my wife's family were German. I even like German food (North and South) ..it is sehr gut. A love of sauerkraut and roasted pork has got to be genetic.

Unfortunately mein freund, I think we'll soon see how well German engineered bunkers and French made aircraft stand up to US made munitions and aircraft. We would like to have you on our side. :confused:

[Baron Holbach]

I eat American fries. :D

Buy CZ, FEG, S&W, Kimber, Colt, and Ruger. Springfield's 1911 slides are made in Brazil but the other parts are made in the U.S. The aforementioned products are from those countries who support the U.S. Of course, it is obvious some are American firearms manufacturers.

The Washington Post reported today that an Argentina judge has issued arrest warrants for four Iran diplomats accused of a 1994 bombing which killed 85 people: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8127-2003Mar10.html

Could one say that Argentinia is with the U.S. in the war against terror and Iraq? If yes, then buy Bersa and Argentine-made firearms.

Is Austria with the U.S.? If yes, then buy Glocks.

[Russ]

Another thing to remember is we don't get to hear from the opposition in Germany and France very often. I think Schroeder is very unpopular and may be out next election. Then maybe we will get a friendlier government in there. The French, I don't know about them. Chirac is in bed with Saddam so what do you expect from France. They have been hot and cold allies ever since the Revolutionary war.

Speaking of the French are any of you Canadian THR members happy with Creitien (sp?)? He's of French decent. Maybe from Quebec but how far removed from France?

Seems like he and his liberal party have shoved socialism down the Canadian's throats.

[T.Stahl]

I think the better thing would be to make the French eat German food.

I'm sure they'd consider THAT to be a good reason to fight instead of surrender! :D

As for reading the Dubble, or anything else, in German, why should I bother?

If I'd be a dictator, I'd a) send the best of my country's youth to German universities to study engineering and natural sciences and b) buy pallets of Dubbels. ;)

CZ-75, I believe Germans also drive more Japanese cars than American cars. ;)

Atticus, you really like Sauerkraut? Uh, you're dangerously German. :uhoh: I prefer Spätzle. :)

Russ, I dare to say that Schröder will go down in history as the most unpopular chancellor since the founding of the FRG on 23 May 1949. Support for his party is currently below 30% and still falling. Too bad we have to wait three and a half years until the next elections. :(

[Atticus]

Layer sauerkraut, potatoes, chicken broth and porkchops. Bake at 400 Deg. F for an hour. Oh Ja baby! Best served with a bottle of Bass Ale though. :D

[Azrael256]

I switched from Zig-Zag (french) to Rizla (British) for rolling my cigarettes :)

[cratz2]

I have no pressing desire for any German guns that will be fullfilled anytime soon. I could always buy a used P7. On the other hand, I really like BMWs and Porsches. ;) At the same time, I'm pretty sure that Germany could get along just fine without any imported items from the US. There would be a learning curve and a period of adjustment while each side ramped up or began production of some items, but on the whole, we could part ways and deal with it. It would be unfortunate, but easily possible and I think we're a long long way from it coming to that.

I've had a long standing boycott of anything from France or K-Mart. Other than wine and a few high end items, I'm pretty sure the entire world could do without France.

[gryphon]

DAng it Atticus. you've gone and made me hungry! Now I have to make what you posted and some schnitzengrubens! :D

[M67]

Boycott?

From people who couldn't even figure out how to kiss until you were taught by ... the French?

Yuck!

Don't get me wrong, I like kissing. But the French! Yuck!
(Okay, maybe that Marceau-chick aint too bad - if I absolutely had to get that close to someone French.)

:p

[Atticus]

Before we start the French embargo, let me suggest that we trade Jerry Lewis for ..one cold escargot...or maybe just the left over shell. We need to come out ahead on the last deal.

[twoblink]

Mike, make the Germans and the French eat... BRITISH FOOD!! That's serious punishment!

[Selfdfenz]

".....which is why this political situation pains me so. Like many Americans, my German genetics run deep. One side of my family was German- both sides of my wife's family were German. "

Ditto Atticus, ditto.
Fully 1/2 of all western N.C. "supposed Southern cooking" is really from..... the Fatherland! The whole western half of the state is Cabbage Capital of the World!

My perspective on the boycott...
1.Except for pocket knives I can't afford many/any thing my German contempories make
2.The French don't make anything I have the slightest interest in even if they could get it here and sell it for...give it away.

Pretty much covers the bases.
S-

[Mike Irwin]

"I'd send the best of my country's youth to German universities to study engineering and natural sciences..."

100 years ago I would have agreed with you.

These days, no. The distinctions aren't nearly as clear as they used to be.


Sauerkraut...

I love sauerkraut. I grew up eating sauerkraut in large quantities. My Grandfather still spoke German in the home pre WW I, and his family, along with the rest of the village, had been in the United States since the early 1800s after emigrating en masse and settling on top of a mountain in central Pennsylvania.

Even though I'm largely German from BOTH sides of the family, this political situation between the US & Germany doesn't bother me on a personal level the way it does some.

Why?

Because I may have a Germanic ethnicity, but I'm AMERICAN through and through.

I have little in the way of cultural, linguistic, social, economic, or political ties to Germany.

The closet ties I do have to Germany are in the form of the parents of one of my oldest friends -- the Groningers. They emigrated to the United States from the Nuremburg area in the middle 1950s. Both are old enough to remember Hitler and the Nazis, and the devastation caused by the war.

Interestingly, both Mama and Papa Groninger (what I've called them for nearly 30 years, the old habits die hard :)) are absolutely certain that war, with or without the sanction and backing of the United Nations, is not only right, but absolutely necessary.

In October when I last saw them they were one hell of a lot more hawkish on the issue that I.

And, from what I hear from their son, they're absolutely disgusted, aghast, and apalled by the stance that the Germans have taken.

[T.Stahl]

M67, all these Norwegian women spoiled you! :D

Mike, judging from the numbers of Chinese and Arab students at German universities, they are doing just that. ;)

One day I'll have to visit my family's relatives in Riverside, NJ.

[2dogs]

And just when this great new product is available....................sigh.



http://teamhouse.tni.net/humor/ThenewFr/thenewfr.htm

[BobK]

:confused: What I want to know is; why do we have military bases in Europe (Germany) to protect them. Can't these people
pay for their own defense? Why must we (USA) be the watchdog of the world?
That goes for a lot of other places in the world too! These countries are paid a great deal of money so we can be there.
Wouldn't the money be better spent on this country? Our money
supports alot of the world,not just ourselves.
It might be naive on my part,:rolleyes: but why can't we just
worry about our own country, and let everyone else worry
about themselves.
The UN is a farce! Without the US, their would be no UN. Since
when is Angola important enough to have a say in what we (US)
does? Same with France and Germany, for that matter.
Bush is taking the correct stand. We protect our country first.
We don't need anyone elses approval! We shouldn't delay any
longer against Iraq! We always end up being the "bad guy"
anyway.
What we do for other countries is forgotten, and they hate us anyway. Let them stand on their own, and let THEM worry about
being OUR friend.
We are the most powerful nation in the world! We are acting
like idiots! We don't need them.......they need US!

[Mike Irwin]

T.,

Have you checked out the level of foreign student enrollment at US universities lately?

[T.Stahl]

No, Mike, I haven't. Are the numbers high? Must be the dictators who want to place them closer to their targets. ;)

[Ledbetter]

Please rconsider that last post. Very poor taste.

[Tamara]

Considering the anti-German vitriol smeared across this forum for the last months, it's kinda odd to be critiquing taste, nicht wahr?

[T.Stahl]

American THR members have demanded that my country should be used as a test site for nuclear weapons, have claimed that you'll find a Nazi when you scratch ANY German, ...

I'm sorry, it seems my sense for taste has has been deadened. :(

[Mike Irwin]

An article I read in US News & World Report several years ago indicated that the United States has, by far, the largest number of foreign students enrolled in US universities than any other nation. As a percentage it's also by far the highest.

The United States also has the largest number/percentage of foreign born university instructors.

I work for a high tech company, and very close to half of my coworkers are Asian or Indian, as well as quite a few Russians and other Eastern Europeans. Additionally there are a few Western Europeans, too. There are times when I go into the break room and I don't know if I'm in Washington, DC, New Dehli, or Bejing.

Most of them are recent emigrants (since 1989), as well.

Some of have undergraduate degrees from universities in their home nations, but most of them have undergraduate and graduate degrees from schools here in the United States.

In the past year 4 of my coworkers, 2 Indian, 1 Russian, and 1 Chinese, have bencome US citizens...

[Ledbetter]

Nobody in any thread I've read mentioned, in a humorous way, the infiltration of terrorists into German classrooms for the purposes of the mass murder of German citizens. Guess I'm sensitive or don't understand German humor, maybe both.

In my opinion the anti-German vitriol we have seen lately has been a response to anti-American vitriol. Not an excuse, just an observation. Perhaps you understand why patriotic Americans resent being called "imperialists" by the Germans.

[Soap]

Perhaps the high foreign student enrollment is simply because American schools are the best in the entire world...

[trooper]

As far as I know T.Stahl and I are the only German nationals on this board. Therefore I take the above mentioned things as directed at us personally.

While we did express that we disagree with some American foreign politics I don't think any of us has insulted your patriotic feelings the way our country was insulted by some of you.

I don't blame you for, let's say, Sarah Brady's actions, so don't blame us for some hot-blooded German high-school kid screaming about US imperialism. After all, you do have your own fair share of hot-blooded high-school kids...

T.Stahl mentioned in another thread that many Germans don't really understand American patriotism because their own patriotic feelings have been artificially suppressed in the FRG. It seems that even superpatriotic Americans can't understand our patriotism either.


Regards,

Trooper

[Ledbetter]

It's not just the High school students, as you may have noticed, but okay. Truce declared until the next shot is fired by someone else. Too nice a day, etc.

If Trooper or T.Stahl were here I'd offer to buy them an American beer after our range session.

In any event, this world is full of issues upon which reasonable persons can disagree and still be amicable. Just don't tread on me.

[Desert Dog]

In my mind this thread has gone way too far...

The ploy is working though... Its the governments... They are the one's we should be boycotting, not each other...

Granted, I believe that left to his own devices, Saddam would cause much grief and destruction... but then on the same token, North Korea's rattling saber needs to be attended to as well.

Trooper, T. Stahl, I apologize for some of the ranting that went on in this thread. There is no need for this kind of thing. The family of responsible gun owners needs to remain, because the anti's will cut us off at the knees every chance they get...

In-fighting helps no one...

Oh by the way, sign me up for the Jagerschnitzel and red cabbage... ;)

Mike

[Atticus]

There is no excuse for some of the comments made. With that said- hopefully you'll understand that we (whether we agree or not) are sending hundreds of thousands of our citizens into harms way - and spending a few billion $ - to do what we feel is the right thing.

Germany's contribution so far, is supplying us with grief, and Saddam with Bunkers, intelligence, and quite possibly..war materials.

An apology is due alright.

[cratz2]

I must say that the anti-German sentiment has been grating on my nerves just a bit. Why is it different that the anti-French sentiment? Because I feel that Germanys current stance is largely the reflection of one man. Maybe a handful, but not the entire country. The French, or as a member pointed out, 'Parisians' have a 150+ year history of their actions. Even if 60% of German citizens are against the US engaging in war against Iraq, that's still roughly the same as US citizens against war against Iraq. And as a country that has been politically slapped on the wrist for invading other countries, why is it OK for the US to do so while saying it isn't OK for Germany to?

If I had a nickle for everytime I've been called a Nazi... well, I'd have an awful lot of nickles. American intelligence? Human nature? I don't know and I don't care. I'm no more a Nazi than 90% of those that wore Nazi uniforms in WWII. Most were farmers doing what they thought was their part. Surely there are only a very few descendants of those that treated Indians poorly that are proud of their acnestors actions. No different.

[T.Stahl]

Agreed, let's stop this silly thing and shake hands.
Every country's history has its highs and lows, we can all be proud of the highs if we don't forget the lows.

I see that my post regarding the reasons behind the percentages of foreign students on American Universities has hurt you, so I apologize for making that (stupid) comment. I will not edit it, so people re-reading this thread will understand what this was about.

Ledbetter, for the sake of peace I'd even drink American beer. ;)

[trooper]

Agreed. Guys, lets not get heated up again anymore like this.

This forum is a treasure of knowledge and it's far too valuable to have it degrade into a my-country-is-better-than-your-country flame war.

T.Stahl, I think they even brew Beck's beer in Philly which is one of my favourite brands, be it German- or American-made ;)


Regards,

Trooper

[CZ-75]

I'd offer to buy them an American beer after our range session.

Cruel and unusual punishment. :D

[ahadams]

folks, folks, you're not understanding the game. Boycott isn't about money - it's about *image*. In fact that's what the whole frog anti-American thing is about. So is the German anti-American thing, but that's more of a German image problem than ours - wait until it makes it through the dense heads and small brains of the leftists in control of the mainstream US media that while the Chinese were illegally selling the Iraqis advanced rocket fuel, and the French were illegally selling and providing technical support for refurbishment of Iraqi owned fighter and fighter bomber aircraft originally produced in France, the Germans were providing the technology and chemistry to allow the Iraqis to produce NERVE GAS and hit Israel with it. Can you say "sounds like a bunch of neonazis to me?"
Can you say "Herr Stahl your country had better come clean on this one fast, as there are a significant number of non-Jews in the US who think that a repeat of anything related to the Hitler and company concentration camp festivities may require something more than a simple boycott?"

there...I knew you could...

(with appologies to Fred Rogers in Heaven)

[Gary H]

Wow, I've got two accounts at a French bank that goes by the name of "Bank of the West" .. I've been killing myself trying to find athletic shoes that are not made by China and now this.

List compiled by newsmax.com:

* Air France. Air Liquide. Airbus. Alcatel. Allegra (allergy
medication). Aqualung (including: Spirotechnique, Technisub,
US Divers, and SeaQuest). AXA Advisors

* Bank of the West (owned by BNP Paribas). Beneteau (boats).
BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin). BIC (razors, pens and lighters).
Biotherm (cosmetics). Black Bush. Bollinger (champagne).

* Car & Driver Magazine. Cartier. Chanel. Chivas Regal (scotch).
Christian Dior. Club Med (vacations). Culligan (owned by Vivendi).

* Dannon (yogurt and dairy foods). DKNY. Dom Perignon.
Durand Crystal

* Elle Magazine. Essilor Optical Products. Evian.

* Fina gas stations and Fina Oil (billions invested in
Iraqi oil fields). First Hawaiian Bank.

* George Magazine. Givenchy. Glenlivet (scotch).

* Hennessy. Houghton Mifflin (books). Jacobs Creek (owned by
Pernod Ricard since 1989). Jameson (whiskey).
Jerry Springer (talk show)

* Krups (coffee and cappuccino makers).

* Lancome. Le Creuset (cookware). L'Oreal (health and beauty
products). Louis Vuitton.

* Marie Claire. Martel Cognac. Maybelline. Méphisto (shoes
and clothes). Michelin (tires and auto parts). Mikasa (crystal
and glass). Moet (champagne). Motel 6. Motown Records. MP3.com.
Mumms (champagne).

* Nissan (cars; majority owned by Renault). Nivea.
Normany Butter.

* Parents Magazine. Peugeot (automobiles). Pierre Cardin.
Playstation Magazine. ProScan (owned by Thomson Electronics,
France). Publicis Group (including Saatchi & Saatchi
Advertising).

* RCA (televisions and electronics; owned by Thomson Electronics).
Red Magazine. Red Roof Inns (owned by Accor group in France).
Renault (automobiles). Road & Track Magazine. Roquefort cheese
(all Roquefort cheese is made in France). Rowenta (toasters,
irons, coffee makers, etc.). Royal Canadian.

* Salomon (skis). Sierra Software and Computer Games. Smart &
Final. Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor). Sparkletts (water,
owned by Danone). Spencer Gifts. Sundance Channel.

* Taylor Made (golf). Technicolor. T-Fal (kitchenware). Total
gas stations.

* UbiSoft (computer games). Uniroyal. Universal Studios (music,
movies and amusement parks; owned by Vivendi-Universal). USFilter.

* Veritas Group. Veuve Clicquot Champagne. Vittel. Vivendi.

* Wild Turkey (bourbon). Woman's Day Magazine.

* Yoplait (The French company Sodiaal owns a 50 percent stake).
Yves Saint Laurent.

* Zodiac Inflatable Boats.

[PDshooter]

"D O N E ":evil:

[Study Butte]

I have nothing against the German people. I lived in Germany for 7 years, went to high school there and had many German friends.

That being said, I always buy American made products when available, which hacks my wife off because it's not easy to find American made products anymore, so it is tough to shop for me.

Here is a site if anyone is interested in buying American.

http://www.buyamerican.com/

[Atticus]

Glenlivet (scotch):what: :what: :what:

I'm gonna finish that bottle tonight and curse them in the morning.


And from the flag lowering post:

"Sofitel Hotel in midtown Manhattan replaced the French flag with the Stars and Stripes. French flags no longer are flying high and proud outside the Sofitel Hotel in midtown Manhattan. The French-owned hotel chain, part of the French hotel company Accor whose units include U.S. motel chains Red Roof Inn and Motel 6, replaced the flags with the Stars and Stripes as a peace offering to its American guests."

[clem]

Tell the President of the French Republic what you, think about him and his country:

http://www.elysee.fr/ang/ecrire/mail_.htm



And as noted, it was said:

"You stand with America or you stand against America."

So fellow High Road members, there is no fence on this one.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Can't get an H&K in my state. I can get a Sig but no money anyway -- and not wealthy enough for the BMW. Looking to the Hyundai myself.:D

[Malone LaVeigh]

This discussion is enough to make me despair about the human condition. Patriotism is a disease. Turf-wars for pre-adolescent mentalities. Or, as Cactus Ed said, a dog barking at a stranger.

Love of home and country is a natural expression of being a human. It's when evil leaders twist it into mindless loyalty and obedience that it gets sick.

This country is far from united on the subject of Bush's war. Overwhelming majorities in most of the world is against it. English "support" of the US in no way reflects the support of the people. Ditto for Italy, Spain, Portugal and the rest of Europe. If we start boycotting countries that don't support our leader's plans for global dominance, we won't have many to buy from.