CZ-75 or EAA WITNESS?


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Spieler
March 11, 2005, 04:22 PM
Quick question for those with experience with either one of these pistol.

I like the CZ/TZ design and have narrowed down my next purchase to either a CZ-75B or full-size, blued EAA Witness, both in 9mmP. The difference now lies in the pricing. I see that CDNN currently has the Witness for ~$270 NIB and a local shop has the CZ-75B for about $100 more, NIB.

So, is the CZ really worth the extra $100? Features are about identical: blued finish, standard sights, one mag each NIB, etc. I have handled the CZ-75 and liked the way it fit my hand, but I have not handled a Witness yete.

So, go for the original or go for the 'copy' and have some dough left over for additional mags and BBs?

Help me decide.

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tmacie
March 11, 2005, 04:45 PM
I have a EAA witness in .45ACP, while its not a 9mmP I find the gun very well put together and it goes bang everytime the trigger is pulled. its quite accurate out fo the box as well.



Travis

12 Volt Man
March 11, 2005, 04:47 PM
Go for the original. You won't regret it.

PCRCCW
March 11, 2005, 05:20 PM
Both are nice guns, the CZ is much more consistant in their performance and quality. Witness guns are very nice..but once in a while you get a 'bummer" gun.
Its worth it to me to get the CZ..........shoot well.

Black Snowman
March 11, 2005, 05:26 PM
CZ for me. I'm occasionally tempted by a 10mm Witness but I still have hope of seeing a 97B in 10mm one day so I'm holding off.

I hear the Baby Eagle/Uzi Eagle/Jehrico is a little more consistant than the EAA offering and AFAIK Magnum Research isn't too bad of an importer to deal with. Certainly better than EAA, although more greedy than CZ USA. Just what I've heard. I've never needed to deal with any of them directly so don't have any 1st hand experiance.

Pointman1776
March 11, 2005, 05:44 PM
+1 for CZ 75 (BD). Ditto PCRCCW and Black Snowman.

I love my CZ's and Baby Eagles and as much as I love my Baby Eagle, I'd have to give the nod to the CZ.

clipse
March 11, 2005, 06:06 PM
I'm gonna agree with the CZ notion. EAA is alittle more inconsistant in their firearms. CZ on the other hand are a ton better. Deffinately worth the extra $100.

clipse

armoredman
March 11, 2005, 08:08 PM
Oh great googly moogly, how do I answer this one? :rolleyes: I had 6 Witness pistols, and if not for financial pressure, I would still have 5, (gave one to my brother right after the AWB went into effect. Idiot sold it two weeks later.), BUT, on the other hand, i have had two CZs personally, and the wife one, and we only have CZs now.
Either or is a good pistol, though I have to state EAA customer service BITES. The Witness is a good pistol, and I like them a lot...may get one in 38 Super sometime. The Witness can convert to a wide array of calibers, too, while the CZ has the 22 Kadet Kit, only.
Long and short...I am totally dedicated to my Cz PO1. I may get a CZ Compact 40 someday, or an EAA Witness Compact 38 Super, and I will be confident in either pistol.....

craig
March 11, 2005, 08:12 PM
get the cz. get the cz. i just got a 75bd and it's great. btw, get the cz.

faustulus
March 11, 2005, 08:39 PM
I have the CZ 75 SA, 85 Combat and a Witness .38 Super. All are great guns, but I think the fit and finish on the CZs is better. The edges of the witness seem sharp to me (espeically the bottom of the safety).

donkee
March 11, 2005, 09:49 PM
you mean there's other 9mm's out there besides the CZs! :what:

Gary G23
March 11, 2005, 09:58 PM
Cz

armoredman
March 11, 2005, 10:24 PM
Oh, alright.....CZ!

1911 TERRY
March 11, 2005, 10:33 PM
Get the CZ. You'll not regret it. After You've had the CZ for awhile you'll want a Sig 226 to round out your 9mm colection.

wally
March 11, 2005, 11:46 PM
If its 45ACP you want, the Witness is like a CZ75 in 45ACP where as the CZ97 is a good gun, its feel IMHO is nowhere as good as is a CZ75, maybe iy your hand is bigger you'd like the 97 better.

For 9mm & .40 CZ all the way! For 10mm EAA is one of your few choices, with none from CZ.

OTOH the Witness pistols on sale at CDNN might be cheap enough to get instead of the CZ. I picked up the fullsize .45ACP Witness-P (they were out of the steel framed .45) for $260, love the fit, haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, just picked it up yesterday.

One other plus for Witness is mags drop free, for CZ you need to remove the brake if you want drop free.

--wally.

PS, anyone know for sure if the Witness-PC and steel frame compact guns take the same mags? I'm seeing conflicting info.

My CZ97 mag fits, locks the slide back and feeds dummy rounds (as I said I haven't shot it yet) in my Witness-P and vice-versa.

I'm intrested in picking up one of the Compact Witness-P in 9mm for my wife as see loves the CZ75 but finds it a bit large and heavy. I see 9mm Witness Compact mag are easy to find, but am not sure they fit the Witness-PC.

shep854
March 12, 2005, 12:19 AM
I have one of the real classics, an original "Pre-B" CZ75. I used to have a P9C from Springfield Armory. This was a compact version of their CZ clone. While actually a Tanfoglio, the P9's were, to me, the most attractive of the tribe. I miss it, and wish SA would release them again.

PCRCCW
March 12, 2005, 03:25 PM
Wally the Poly witness's do take different mags than the steel framed guns.
Go to the CZForum.com and check out the clones club............
Shoot well.

armoredman
March 12, 2005, 05:31 PM
Shep, with EAA having the import rights to the Tanfoglio line, it is unlikely we will ever see the P9 again. Too bad, as EAA's customer service went so far downhill, Tanfoglio almost needs a new importer to perk up the image again....

mrstang01
March 12, 2005, 05:52 PM
The Poly's can use the same mags as the steel framed, had one of each and did just that.

PCRCCW
March 12, 2005, 06:14 PM
It depends on the Caliber. The 40 poly mags I had wouldnt go in my CZs...to fat. The steel framed ones went in but were to short. So the poly ones probably wont work in steel.....but will work vise versa.........just a note.

Shoot well.......

shep854
March 12, 2005, 07:50 PM
Armoredman, you're likely right. After the way Springfield Armory burned themselves trying to produce too many guns, they aren't likely to try again. Also, they are doing so well with the new designs that there's no reason to.

A body can still dream, though...

Pumpkinheaver
March 12, 2005, 08:27 PM
I hate the short little tang on the ass end of cz-75's. I much prefer the upswept beavertail on the witness.

wally
March 14, 2005, 06:28 PM
Got to shoot my .45 EAA Witness full size poly today!

I also took a CZ97 mag with me to see if it'd work, was short on time so didn't bring the CZ97 to check the Witness mag in it.

Basically I like the gun, it feels better in my hand than does the CZ97. YMMV.

Started with a box of Wolf and had three feed stoppages in the first mag of 10 rounds, not a great start :( But these were the kind where you pull the slide back and let it slam forward again and you then get a feed. In my experience this usually means the mag is binding the rounds not getting them up into position in time. So I kept shooting, 1 of the same feed failure in each of the next three mag loads. Starting to get a bit concerned since the gun only came with one mag.

Next I try the CZ97 mag -- all ten rounds feed perfectly. Figuring problem is the mag and it just needs either more shooting or some internal polish, I go back to the EAA mag and break out a box of my hard cast lead H&G 68 style 200gr SWC -- these my CZ97 doesn't feed very well generally giving two or three jams a box. Pleasent surprise, the Witness fed all 50 perfectly!

Figuring the mag may have loosened up a bit, got out another box of Wolf 230gr ball. This time all 50 fed perfectly. Not perfect function out of the box but seemed to break in quickly, and it looks like the initial problems were mag related since the CZ mag worked.

As to other calibers, again I see conflicing info about EAA mags compatability in Poly vs. Steel guns. I'll try to find samples to compare at the next gun show.

I'm very happy and think it was a great buy at $259.95 from CDNN.

--wally.

Big Mike
March 15, 2005, 03:04 AM
If buying sight unseen, you may want to lean to the CZ. If you are able to see them side by side, then I'd go for the one that feels better in your hand and the overall feeling of which one you would like. Though similar, I prefer the grip and style of the Tanfoglio to the CZ. I had the full size .45 that I sold only to assist in financing another purchase (revolver for wife). Mike

klausner
June 14, 2005, 12:41 AM
the Poly witness's do take different mags than the steel framed guns.

I just ordered some Witness mags today, and asked about the "difference" between the steel models and mags for the polys. Turns out the only change is the color of the rubber bumper on the bottom of the mag. So I compared one of each. The bumper on the steel mags is black that is perhaps 95% black and the poly is 100% black, or just barely darker. It might matter to purists, but otherwise a non-issue.

When I looked at CZs, the ones I saw had lovely polished wood grips. Nice to look at, but likely to be awfully slippery in a clinch. The Witnesses have more "modern" non-slip grips. There are after market grips for CZs now, but its one more thing to mess with.

My wishlist for either of these would be to add a de-cocker.

gvass
June 14, 2005, 10:25 AM
Buy the real one. CZ.

The Italians make good pizza...but guns? Oh, nooo.:-))

Ash
June 14, 2005, 10:53 AM
I would normally say go CZ. Indeed, I refuse personally to buy a 9mm Witness (or .40). However, I do own a .45 Witness and prefer it to the CZ-97. I also prefer the safety and firing pin block design with the Witness as the first is more universal and the second is sturdier. The chromed Wonder Finish is also pretty tough, if stupidly named (along with the pistol name, but I digress). Mine is the blackened finish (which I recently refinished with alumahyde) and has been a flawless performer. Yeah, truly a flawless performer, not a hitch, hiccup, or delay. It remains my favorite .45 pistol (I got into Witnesses before the CZ-97 showed up, a .45 CZ-75, what a country!).

With that in mind, a 9mm Witness in Wonderfinish makes a good run for the money against a CZ. Design-wise, I consider the Witness to be a better pistol. In application and construction, however, the CZ wins hands down. Also, the CZ will retain its value much better than the Witness.

Currently, I own a pre "B", a transitional, a "B", and a CZ-85 compact, in addition to my Witness.

Ash

Walt Sherrill
June 14, 2005, 10:59 AM
If I had a chance to check the gun out before hand, it would depend entirely on the trigger and the barrel/slide fit. I'd get whichever was better.

EAA sells good guns but, as noted, quality control slips from time to time... and their customer serivce has a horrible reputation. (I've bot EAA guns, CZs, and some other CZ-clones. They're all good guns!)

CZ seems to be better on all counts, but you'll find a bad one there, too, form time to time.

Hands on? Let your senses be the judge. If you have to buy long-distance, go CZ.

PCRCCW
June 14, 2005, 01:22 PM
There WAS a difference in the mag dimensions. Admittedly, EAA may have bogused this with there first gen Poly guns.....They had BUL make new frames after the first gen guns didnt sell.
The 40 Poly Witness mags did NOT fit in my witness or CZ. But the Steel gun mags would work in my friends Poly Witness.
They may have fixed it in the sec. gen frames as to avoid further confusion.
But this WAS the case...................................K?
Shoot well.

caz223
June 14, 2005, 01:27 PM
With what happenned to me, I would never recommend a witness pistol, or any tanfoglio product, nor would I recommend any gun imported or supported by EAA.
I don't want to get into it right now, as when I do, I get physically ill.
Get the CZ, any CZ, you'll be happy with it.
My favorite of the CZ line is the 97b, shoot one, and you'll understand...

mainmech48
June 15, 2005, 01:13 PM
Like a couple of the others, I'm kinda torn on this'un. I have a Witness 9x19, a 75B, and a 97B. Love 'em all.

Have to acknowledge the rep for spotty QC from Italy. Many of the Witness line products that I've examined post my purchase aren't nearly as nicely fitted as the one I bought. As was said, sight-unseen I'd argue CZ. I bought my Witness very slightly used and examined it closely. May be the best $200-odd I ever spent. The "Wonder" finish really is, and it's extremely accurate with Federal 124 gr. Match or WW Silvertips especially. Has never choked once.

The 75B has a few practical advantages, such as the pinned front sight which makes it an order of magnitude easier to modify to suit your eyes or style. The Witness front is integral to the slide, so you have to fiddle with changing the rear's height (costs more, fewer options, and harder to get). Tritiums need a 'smith, and milling the slide will screw-up the finish on "Wonder" guns.

The 97B is, performance for the buck, perhaps the best buy out there in a "service" sized .45 ACP. It is large, but very closely comparable in size to a Beretta 92/96. Mine shot as well OTB as the custom 1911 I bought from one of the Big Names that cost me 3X the money. Fed, fired, and extracted any and all ball, and most HPs 100% OTB. Needed only minor ramp polishing for my 200 gr. SWC handloads to do the same.

Since both the options you mentioned are in the same shop, I'd compare the two side-by-side for fit and smoothness of function and buy the winner.

Litlman
June 15, 2005, 07:09 PM
CZ, got 3 want more.......

Sean Smith
June 15, 2005, 07:10 PM
I've owned both EAA and CZ products. CZ>EAA.

polik6887
October 14, 2007, 07:54 PM
I have been looking for a new .40 CC pistol, and I have pretty much settled on the CZ 75 compact .40. than I saw the EAA witness. now I have a couple of questions for those of you that have shot both.

1) is the polymer EAA witness compact comfortable in the grip?

2) is the polymer EAA witness .40 compact shorter or taller than the CZ 75 compact .40? the EAA website states that the polymer .40 compact is shorter than the CZ compact .40 by .5', and longer by .2", but I dont know if this is due to the magazine or the actual gun.

3) what about the EAA steel witness .40 compact? longer, and shorter too? their website claims that this is 7.3" long like the cz, but 4.5" tall like the polymer.

4) any other clones I should look into? I dont like the baby eagle due to the slide mounted safety, and extra weight. Armalite and sphinx only make the 9mm as far as I have found.

5) is the factory DA/SA better or worse on the EEA?

6) the magazines are interchangeble between the EAA compact and CZ compact right? what about between the polymer and steel EAA?

7) does the CZ 75 DA/SA have a better or worse trigger than the HK USP compact .40? (at the gun shows in VA they tie all the tiggers and actions up, so no one can actually test the gun out. ****ing pain in the ass when deciding between two guns)

I think I prefer the CZ for the black steel frame, but it looks a little tall. anyone like/dislike this gun for CC? the Rami is just too small for me.

the EAA website claims their polymer compact .40 is 7.5" long and 4.5" high. can someone measure theirs and verify this? how much does the magazine add?

JP from Phoenix
October 14, 2007, 09:11 PM
I've been thinking about getting the .45 versian of the witness, its a great looking gun and a great price

briang2ad
October 14, 2007, 09:54 PM
Of all the CZs, the COMPACT 40 has the MOST problems. Go to the CZ Club site and read - lots of trouble. I like the design BETTER than the P01 with the manual safety, but they have had trouble. The 75B 40 has had much less trouble.

roscoe
October 14, 2007, 10:13 PM
No question, get the CZ. If the EAA gives you trouble (and many do), their customer service is theworst in teh business. The only reason to buy an EAA is to get a DA/SA 10mm.

powwowell
October 14, 2007, 11:20 PM
I don't have a CZ75. Maybe some day. I do have a 9mm Witness. It's blued, not Wonder Finished. I also have three other 9mm's to compare the Witness to. In short, I can't imagine a better handling, shooting pistol than my Witness. I would choose the Witness and spend the saved $100 on ammo.:)

wally
October 15, 2007, 12:50 AM
Another old thread back from the dead.

I'll follow-up with another two years experience. If you want 9mm or .40S&W get the CZ, to me its a no-brainer. But if you like the CZ75 but want .45 or 10mm the Witness can be a good choice, especially in .45ACP. My poly 9mm compact & full sized.45 have been fine. The poly .40S&W is the worst gun I own, by far. But if I put the compact .45 conversion upper on it, functions 100%.

EAA 10mm steel frames (full & compact) have had magazine issues, I seem to have resolved them (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=305870) but the compact slide cracked (well under 300 rounds of wimpy factory fodder). Gun is on its way to EAA now, really annoyed that they wouldn't just replace the upper since I have the .45 compact conversion kit, but insisted I return the entire gun :(

The one feature of the Witness I do prefer over the CZ is the fact the thumb safety can be applied and the slide racked to load or unload.

The big negative to me with the Witness (other than poor customer support) is the front sight is milled as part of the slide meaning no way to change it. I put a fiber optic front (simple drive pin out, swap sights, drive pin back in) on my CZ75B and it rocks!

--wally.

browningguy
October 15, 2007, 09:56 AM
Wow, some threads really get dragged back from the dead.

No question, get the CZ. If the EAA gives you trouble (and many do), their customer service is theworst in teh business. The only reason to buy an EAA is to get a DA/SA 10mm.

I would disagree, I have one CZ75B, no failures with it but very limited shooting. I have two Witness pistols, an old P-S model purchased new in 1997, 9mm with polymer frame, and a .40 Cal. Elite Match about a year old. I've been shooting the Match model in IDPA so it has several thousand rounds through it. Neither has ever had any problem at all, when I needed spare mags a very nice lady at EAA asked me about each one and then promptly sent off 3 of each that fit and worked with no problems. I don't know about repairs because I've never had to have one but there is a lot of negative feedback about the guy that runs the repair part of the business. However from the experiences I hear about the problem rate with EAA's seems no worse than any other manufacturer.

I think the triggers on the Witness pistols are generally better than the CZ's, whether used in DA or SA mode but that is just my experience. And to get a CZ pistol that is the equal of the Match model, which sells for around $450, costs serious coin.

wally
October 15, 2007, 10:16 AM
I agree the Witness Match pistols are great guns for the money and the SAO trigger is really nice.

Browningguy, could you please post a photo of one of your .40S&W mags showing the feed lips and follower? I've a .40S&W Witness-P compact that is the biggest jam-o-matic I've ever had. The mag that came with it looks exactly like the mag for my Witness 10mm compact except it says .40S&W on the body instead of 10mm. I've tried the 10mm mags in it and still have the same problems. I'm wondering if they've changed mags and either did something to keep the shorter rounds from moving forward or maybe extend feed lips so the release point is ~0.1" further forward to keep the shorter rounds under control.

I've exchanged Email with Ron Reed and he says his .40S&W mags sure look like the 10mm mags.


However from the experiences I hear about the problem rate with EAA's seems no worse than any other manufacturer.
The way things are these days, with the assume it'll work and let the customer do final QA/QC moderm school of manufacturing, this can be a large issue with EAA since they will not work with you at all and insist you return the entire gun at your expense for any problem! My 10mm Witness compact slide cracked (less than 300 rounds, classic "infant mortality" failure) having to return the entire gun instead of just getting the upper exchanged is a real PITA and very annoying since I have a .45ACP compact conversion upper for it, whcih is what I shoot in it the most.

--wally.

waynecrothers
July 29, 2008, 01:40 PM
I happen to own a Witness steel full size with barrels and slides in 9mm and 40 sw. They take the same mag and have not been a problem in either cal. They utilize a double stack on the mags I got, 16 9mms and 12 40,s. Have yet to have a jam in either caliber after 100,s of rds. Got match sights on the 40 and fixed sights on the 9. Be aware that there are 2 frame sizes on the Witnesses and they are not well publicized. There is a small frame and a large frame and Eaa does not tell you the difference. I wanted to get a 45 acp conversion for my pistol and then found out on a gun forum that my frame wasn,t available in 45 acp. I could get the 10 mm and that was it. Anybody that doubts my word, go to EAA.corp.com and tell me if you can figure the web site out, especially the conversions. Other than that I think they are a good pistol. Mine shoots as good as my Kimber

Walt Sherrill
July 29, 2008, 08:38 PM
Be aware that there are 2 frame sizes on the Witnesses and they are not well publicized. There is a small frame and a large frame and Eaa does not tell you the difference.

That was the case in the past, but now they make ONLY the large frame models. With calibers ranging from .22 through 10mm.

In buying a used gun, you've got to know what you're getting, but the differences are obvious. The only time its an issue, is when buying or ordering by mail.

valor1
July 29, 2008, 11:12 PM
I'd still take the Cz75B. Very reliable, widely accepted and it is a traditional kind of thing (just like the 1911s made by Colt).

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