[kannonfyre]

On TV many years ago, I saw some goblin handload assorted hurtful rubbish like rusty nails/tacks, glass shards and broken razor blades bufferred with birdshot into shotgun shells. Can such crap be fired from smoothbore barrels without damaging the barrel? How much wound trauma would these "crap" shells inflict if fired at a man 25 yards away? Can any accuracy be depended upon?

I'm mentioning this because I figure these shells would be cheap to manufacture and hence a homeowner could rely on a good supply of these "debris shells" in addition to the 4,0,00 and 000 shells that he would have stored up to fend off hostile looters in a riot situation. Additionally, if proper lead shot was not available for whatever reason, "debris shells" could be an alternative.

Comments anyone?

[Detritus]

can you say LAWYER BAIT!!!!

such things are a hold over from the time of muzzle loading shotguns, and a settler/landowner/etc having to use what was on hand to make an effective defensive load. nowadays it's an invitation to a lawsuit.

in fact i'm not entirely sure but i beleive that such a shell itself may in fact be illegal.

i KNOW that a number of items being widely sold at gunshows (flat metal discs with a deep X scored into one side,and similar) intended to create "shrapnel" rounds for 12ga shotguns were banned and carried a stiff penalty for sale much less use thereof.


stick to birdshot, it's just about as effective and not as likely to cause legal trouble. in fact in most areas it's not a wise idea to even use anything but factory loaded ammo for home defense.

[kannonfyre]

Detritus:

Dude, I understand what you are trying to say. I do not intend to handload some "crap" shells myself. (Indeed, I do not even own a shotgun, much less reloading equipment.) However, if we confine ourselves to the technical consideration alone.......will such "crap" damage a modern pump action shotgun if fired though it?

By the way, this thread was originally part of a fantasy based thread about suitable loads to use against undead flash eating zombies ala "night of the living dead'. In that context, I highly doubt that a walking corpse receiving a high velocity blast of rusty nails, glass, and birdshot to it's COM would find a lawyer to sue his attacker.

Sincerely,
Kannon

[Dave McCracken]

Even in a justified shoot, using stuff like this is a gift to the perp and his lawyers.

As for improvised ammo in an emergency, a barrel of water, a ladder, a sieve and some molten lead equal a shot tower. Lead is available as close as the nearest car battery or plumber's truck.

Better yet,stockpile,hoard and learn to reload...

[TarpleyG]

Just load it with dimes or pennies. That'll leave a mark.

GT

[curt]

Some o fthe things you mentioned such as razor blades and glass could leave scratches in a barrel. I would imagine that if you were to fire number of them that the damage could be a problem, don't know why you would. Accuracy and pattern has got to be godawful, i would imagine 25 yds would not work very well. I can't imagine any posible purpose other than zombie hoards attacking where something like that would even be usable. You mention rioters, would you want to kill someone several feet to the left of the person you were defending youself against?

I've never actually been in one but i would imagine that in a riot situation you would have to be careful to account for every piece of something that came out of your barrel due to the number of people out there.

[Sir Galahad]

Any traditional muzzleloader supply store sells "gang molds" with which you could mold several pellets of buckshot at a time. Or from them you could get .31 and .36 caliber pistol balls which are buckshot more or less. Loading smoothbores with "scrap" comes from back in the 1700s and early 1800s when Indians loaded their trade guns with scrap iron when they ran low on lead. Trade guns being basically cut-down flintlock muskets of .69, .62 or .75 caliber (or sometimes these guns were made specially for trade to Indians and carried by people like Hudosn's Bay Company.) In such cases, Indians cut up wagon wheel iron tires, nails, wire, and anything else they could get a hold of. A variation on the trade gun was a trade gun cut down to a less than 14" barrel called a "blanket gun." These were made to be concealed on the person, usually under a , you guessed it, a capote or blanket robe. These were often loaded with crap. But in both cases, these weapons when loaded with scrap were meant for use at extreme close range. Indian warfare honor systems usually dictated close range battle. These loads were not all that effective against large parties of trappers armed with good mountain rifles of high caliber. The trappers could keep the Indians out of range with their rifles and render the trade guns useless.

[Andrew Wyatt]

the "scrap" wouldn't stack very efficiently in the case, as well.

these shells would be relatively ineffective compared to a good birdshot load against the living dead, which are hunted like turkeys.


i think i just came up with a "tactical" use for a full blown turkey gun. :cool:

[TrapperReady]

I wonder how well this stuff would feed through through my MEC 9000G? Maybe I should call the company today:

"Excuse me, but I'm working on a new zombie load, and wonder if I need a new charge bar. I'd like a couple different ones, maybe 1 oz of busted up razor blades for clays and undead pigeons , and 1 3/4 oz of roofing nails for more serious use. By the way, do you know of any places that sell 25 pound bags of assorted crap for less than Gander Mountain?"

Man, the reloading manuals are gonna get seriously thick to provide all the possible combinations.

Makes me think, though. What's really in the cheap ammo they sell at WallyWorld?

[kannonfyre]

Good day TrapperReady!

LOL! Gawd man, you are FUNNY! :D I still can't stop laughing at what you posted.

To everyone else,

As I said before, this thread is purely theoretical. If I had the good fortune to own a 20ga or 12ga in good working condition I would NOT think of runnning "crap" shells through my scatter gun. I'd handload my own buckshot....but nothing else.

Thanks for the input!

[ahadams]

a while ago (oh all right about 20 years ago...are y'all satisfied?) I received some instruction on improvised explosives. When it came to improvising shrapnel we were told that the worst possible choices were glass, gravel, and any metal other than steel since high explosive charges tended to turn most of that sort of thing to fine dust, thus minimizing the shrapnel effect.

hope that provides some help.

[p35]

Seems to me there would be a risk of all that weird shaped stuff jamming together and plugging the barrel, too. Anothe good reason not to.