why is hi point so cheap?


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ProactiveReactionary
March 11, 2005, 10:35 PM
im looking at their site and their prices are under 200 bucks for 9 mm .40 and .45.

now a guy on a limited budget like me might look at one of these at a starting point for owning a gun but certainly not something to expect a lot of performance out of.

anyone have any experience with these things? i have a feeling they arent worth the time or effort but i thought i would ask anyway, i'm weighing all options and this is an option, even if a bad one!

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Phantom Warrior
March 11, 2005, 11:41 PM
HA. I searched and founded a thread on The Firing Line. Here it is. (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1438369)

In my opinion, they are acceptable pistols, but you could do a lot better. They are big and heavy (because of the action) and made out of the cheapest crappy materials possible. But, for all the bad things people say about them they do go bang. If you just wanted to shoot, you could go for it. If you needed a gun for defense I would recommend getting something a little better.

ProactiveReactionary
March 11, 2005, 11:48 PM
lol im thinking of getting something that just goes bang for now and getting used to firing a gun first...then as i improve, i get a gun worth its salt.

they look as homemade sin. i mean they look like they're put together out of spare parts from other guns. but to have a .45 for under 200 easily...hmmmm my friend could have the hand cannon he always talks about getting...lol

still weighing my options though...

gazpacho
March 12, 2005, 02:23 AM
They are made ugly on purpose. It's molded plastic. There is NO reason why they couldn't mold then nicer.

Fumbler
March 12, 2005, 03:50 AM
I have never shot or known anyone who owned any of their pistols, but I have shot their carbine that uses the same mags as the pistols. All I have to say about it was it worked. Nothing fancy, nothing special, it was simply a gun that worked.

I suspect the handguns are similar and I wish I had firsthand experience to share with you.

Having said that, I know what its like to be hard on cash. If I were you (and I was/am you at some time or another) I would save just a tiny bit more and buy something used with a little nicer fit and finish. I know it's just a "begining" handgun, but if you're anything like me you'll have the intent of never getting rid of it. It'll have some sentimental value right?
Hi Points around here cost about $125. For $190 I could get a Bersa Thunder 380. I'd rather have the Bersa. The injection molded plastic just screams cheap.
Another piece of advice, I don't know you or your friend, but if this is a first pistol a 45ACP may not be the best choice. They recoil more than the 35 cals and cost a lot to shoot. I think a 9mm would be the best choice for a first gun and makes a good defensive round. The Bersa Thunder 380 is chambered in 380ACP, thats basically slightly less than 38 Special performance. That might not sound impressive, but the biggest factor in the effectveness of a cartridge is whether or not it hits what it was aimed at.

ahh...I'm typing too much.
Buy it if you want it for a cheap first gun, but save a little bit more if you want a gun that will still be going strong long after you've passed away.

Locally I have found police trade in Sigs fo $350, police trade in S&W Sigmas that are basically new for only $225, various used revolvers for around the $200 mark, used lower quality 1911s for around $250 (they have the advantage of having a HUGE aftermarket), used Glocks for $350, etc...

MisterG
March 12, 2005, 04:46 AM
Get a Star Model B or BM. They're in the same price range, much thinner, and much better guns. Star!!!

saddlebum
March 12, 2005, 10:24 AM
makarov

railroader
March 12, 2005, 10:27 AM
I don't know anything about hipoints but if you are on a budget get a 9mm not a 45acp pistol, the ammo is much cheaper. For an example 100 rounds of 9mm at walmart is about $11. For 100 rounds of 45acp is $20. Mark

ProactiveReactionary
March 12, 2005, 11:33 AM
im looking at 9 mm. he wants a hand cannon. i tried telling him the .45 ammo is more expensive and he doesnt seem to care.

he feels a .45 will protect him better than a 9 mm or a .40. i told him unless he trains with it regularly it wont matter what caliber the gun is if he misses. in a close quarters combat situation where its dark and your heart is pumping like mad and adrenaline is coursing through your body like blood odds are if you havent trained regularly for such a situation, you're probably going to miss your target so the caliber isnt going to matter much.

and training with a .45 can get expensive, more so than a 9mm.

albanian
March 12, 2005, 11:58 AM
I don't think you will be very happy with a Hi-Point. I had the carbine and I remeber just looking at it and holding it and thinking how crappy it was. It felt like you could grab it in each hand and twist it until it broke. Hi-Points are not guns for gun lovers. They do have a good chance of working though. They are more reliable than most cheap autos but they are HEAVY!

For the same price or less than a new Hi-Point, you could get some very nice used guns. Star BM 9mm is probably the best buy right now in the used gun market. These guns are first quality but they sell for very good prices. You should have no problem getting a decent used Star BM at a gunshow for less than $200. The Makarov, Bersa, used Rugers and some used S&Ws can be had for somewhere near $200. You should be able to find a used Ruger P95 for about $250 if you looked. They are probably the best DA double stack hi-cap 9mm for the least amount of money. The Rugers may not be as refined as some of the more expensive guns like Beretta or Glock but they will do just about everything you could expect out a gun like this. If I had to take a $250 pistol into war or some kind of life and death situation, I think the Ruger would be high on my list. They are great guns for people on a budget and they are ULTRA reliable, probably more so than the higher end guns like Glock.

ProactiveReactionary
March 12, 2005, 12:00 PM
someone on here is selling a P89 and P90 for 600 bucks and i'm going to see if he'll be nice enough to part with the P89. i think he wants to sell them together though.

albanian
March 12, 2005, 12:24 PM
On the front page of the CDNN catalog there is a new Ruger P97 for $289. On page 24 there is a Ruger P93 9mm with night sights, hard case, Hogue rubber grips and 15rd mag in SS for $249! On page 11 you can get a new Steyr M-9 9mm for $249. On page 20 you can get a Beretta Cougar .40S&W with hi-cap mag and night sight for $249. On page 25 you can get a S&W 5904 9mm with two hi-caps for $289.

These are just a few guns I picked out of one mag. Check some other dealers like KY Imports or Kiesler's and you will find some good deal on used guns as well. Most of these are police trade ins that have been carried much and shot little so they have lots of life left in them. I see no reason to buy a gun like a Hi-Point if you are short on cash. There is a saying that "only rich men can afford a cheap guns". Well that is not the saying but it works. I have been through the cheap gun route when I just started buying guns for myself and I wish I had all my money back on guns I bought that didn't last. If I had my money from all the Jennings, Ravens and Hi-point type guns that I bought and later sold at a huge loss, I could get a couple of nice high quality guns that would last forever.

You get what you pay for in the gun world so don't fool yourself into thinking that you can get away with buying a cheap gun. There are some guns that out preform their price but by and large, you have to pay to get something worth having. You have to pay a lot but you can't buy the cheapest gun. In fact, never buy the cheapest anything, I have found that you get the best deals on items that are not the cheapest. There is always someone who is willing to make something cheaper if they think they can get in on the bargin hunters market but cheap junk is never a bargin.

ProactiveReactionary
March 13, 2005, 11:49 PM
can someone show me a picture of a star b or BM?

if they're better than hi point and the cost is similar...i might as well go with them instead.

i cant find a page or site on them.

i really need some info! :(

MisterG
March 14, 2005, 12:02 AM
Very Nice Guns!
http://www.impactguns.com/store/star_bm.html]Star Model Bm (http://www.impactguns.com/store/star_bm.html)


Star Model B (http://www.shootingtips.com/NewFiles/article/German%20Policegun/HGPP8/NZ-Star-B.jpg)

MisterG
March 14, 2005, 12:06 AM
I had a model bm for a while. You can get them for anywhere from 179.00 to 200.00 or so. It was a great little gun. Very very smooth action. I nickled mine and through on some fake ivory grips, made it my little pimp gun for a while. I'd also recommend cocking and locking it. I tried to lower the hammer on mine one day and with the ordinary wear on the hammer spur, the hammer slipped. :what: Well, it went off and I almost shot myself and/or my father who had recently vacated the path of the bullet. Since then it's been cocked and locked for me, better gun safety, and a heatly dose of fear induced caution. Please be careful.

PS. Check this site out for pictures and good information.
Click me! (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg79-e.htm)

ProactiveReactionary
March 14, 2005, 12:18 AM
those look nice. i dig those.

i'm going to see what i can find locally first.

i'm not a hobbyist, i just want a gun that fires when the trigger is pulled so whatever i get as my first gun it will be cheap. maybe i'll get nicer guns later on and be more into certain features.

i'd love a vette but i'm gonna have to start somewhere and it looks for now its going to be with a metro.

MisterG
March 14, 2005, 12:21 AM
Good luck with your hunt. There's no shame in a Star though. I've seen them in High End shops beside a bunch of guns that were 5 times their price. Just don't get a Hi Point, Raeven, or Jennings!

Jim101
March 14, 2005, 12:27 AM
Hi-Point owner here......I expect to get "beat up" again, but I am an owner. Most of the people that bad mouth this gun, don't own one...
I bought one about a year and a half ago at a gun show for $98 new, before tax....Since then I have shot about 800 rounds, after about 150 it settled in.....No problems....No jams, no FTF, no stovepipes..Just shoots...I shoot CCI Blazers, cheapest stuff out there, ~$3.68/50.
I am looking at buying the .45 next. The Hi-Point has a lifetime guarantee, made in the USA.....
It's ugly, so is a Glock....

Jim

MisterG
March 14, 2005, 12:46 AM
Good to hear you got a good'un...

giancarlo
March 14, 2005, 12:49 AM
I heard Hi Points actually are Jennings. Jennings got bought or changed their name to Hi Point.
Hi Points to me look like outer space guns. I don't even think they're really that ugly, just huge.

Zundfolge
March 14, 2005, 01:08 AM
he feels a .45 will protect him better than a 9 mm or a .40
A 9mm that goes bang when you pull the trigger will do a better job of protecting him then a .45 that goes click.


There are a few out there who have had HiPoints that where reliable ... many many more have had the darn things fall apart in their hands or just not function.

If he insists on .45 look for an FEG GKK-45, aka the FEG ACK-45 (basically a Hungarian copy of a Browning Hi Power in .45) they can be found in the same price range.

ProactiveReactionary
March 14, 2005, 01:10 AM
the ugly one is the 9 mm compensated. the compact looks decent and not any worse than a glock in terms of appearence. the rest look ok though.

appearence really doesnt matter, i just like a gun that looks good but i'll take function over form any day of the week. i'm reading about different guns and makers and forming my own opinions and i'm taking other people's opinions and putting them into perspective to what they are saying and comparing their views and their sense of priorities in a gun with my own. if it shoots and does so reliably i see no reason why i shouldnt at least give it a chance. its a mechanical device and no different from a 1000 dollar 1911, either can break and yes material issues and such aside any gun can break or malfunction, but at least when a cheap gun does it you dont go "dammit! i paid X amount of dollars for this thing and it (enter your favorite malfunction here) on me every time i go to the range!", in other words, you arent so disappointed when the cheaper gun does it.

the lifetime warranty carries weight with me. rather hagve that than one thats only a couple years. even if its a POS cheapo gun at least they'll fix it no questions asked. i'll give them that much.

coylh
March 14, 2005, 04:23 AM
Sometimes, for an increase in a little money, you get a lot of value. As you go up the price scale though, even if you spend a lot more money, the amount of value you get is small. So, there's usually a sweet spot where you get the most value for a medium amount of money.

For semi-auto handguns, this sweet spot is about $500-$600 (glock 19/sig 239).

If you can't or won't spend more than $250, I'd suggest getting a revolver. It will be demonstrably more reliable than the semi-autos in that price range.

larry starling
March 14, 2005, 08:09 AM
IMHO highpoints are junk!I personally would stay away from them!For a little more you could get a CZ40 J&G sales has them for 299.00!you would be getting metal instead of plastic!also its a quality firearm!

Also the only places i have seen highpoints are in the pawn shops that serve the other side of town!!!! :banghead:

Walt Sherrill
March 14, 2005, 09:31 AM
Hi-Points aren't junk, bu they're not fine, precision machines, either.

The slides all use HEAVY metal, as they're "blowback" guns, which use the weight of the slide, rather than a sophisticated locking system, to retard the slide during cycling. With a .45, you end up with what looks (and feels) like a brick on top of your hand. The 9mm isn't so bad.

A gunshop owner I know who sells a lot of guns, (very high volume), says the Hi-Point is the only cheap gun he'll carry -- as its the only one that doesn't come back. HI-POINT's customer service is apparently quite good, very fast, and makes their customers happy.

All that said, I'd argue that a brand-name gun would be a better first purchase -- and I'd spend an extra $100 and find a used Ruger P-95 or a bit more and look at some of the S&W 59xx guns mentioned, in prior messages. For the folks who want a "Truck" gun, to keep in the toolbox or locked glove box, and don't really want to lose a lot if lost or stolen... the Hi-Point ain't all bad.

Stars are good, too, but you may eventually have problems finding parts, and you'll find other guns a little easier to sell when you're ready to move up -- as I'm sure you will inevitably be do. They're no longer made, and the parts inventory may slowly dry up. Extractors for the .40 versions are now almost impossible to find -- there doesn't seem to be problems with other parts for other models.

(I've had several Stars and they really are fine guns. Have one now, in fact: a Star Firestar Plus, which is a small, light, very nice Single Action auto, with an alloy frame, hi-cap mags, etc. Very good gun for concealed carry. Almost the size of the kel-Tec P11, but a bit heavier.)

Lennyjoe
March 14, 2005, 12:26 PM
I know someone who knows where one is burried in the desert.

Huh denfoote. ;)

sturmruger
March 14, 2005, 12:49 PM
I think the highpoints are decent guns for the money. I like to compare guns to cars. I think Highpoint is kind of like a Kia. It gets you from point A to point B, but your friends will still make fun of you for driving it.

ProactiveReactionary
March 14, 2005, 01:12 PM
ha well if the kia works thats all i ask of it. not expecting anything fancy or special.

maybe if i knew i was gonna see plenty of range time i would invest in a gun that can endure being shot regularly.

bullets are like miles in this case, the more you put on a kia the faster it wears out, but even the high end cars wear out over time, just not as fast.

but sometimes you find a nice cheap car that suits your needs and performs well

my old auto tech teacher always considered a car that did everything you wanted it to do a high performance car, doesnt matter if its an escort or a porsche.

mr.trooper
March 14, 2005, 02:37 PM
I admit to owning a Hi-point in 9mm and 45 ACP.

First letme say this. They DO go bang wen yo upull the triger. they function verry well.

Now let me contnue. the 9mm weighs MORE than my full sized stainless 45...and its mosly plastic! They are UGLY as SIN, and have HORRID grips on them. They just feals BAD to hold them...not to mention that noone seems to know how to take them appart? i sure cant figure it out.

Save up and buy a Berreta or something. Thats what im doing.

If you dont have the cash flow, then give up a few hours of sleep and get a part time job for a month or so. it will be well worth it.

I learned the hard way not to buy cheap guns. Even the ones that are reliable (like the Hi-point) just arnt any fun to shoot, and they tend to look bad in general. I have to shutter each time i look at it. it just looks like :barf:

Jim101
March 14, 2005, 02:48 PM
Trooper,

Thanks for jumping in...I do agree with you, they are ugly, but they do shoot..Sure, I would like a Kimber, but don't have the money..
I did add a Hogue slip grip and it helped quite a bit..I have taked the gun apart and cleaned it, Hi-Point recommends that every 1500 rounds...I have a web site that shows how to field strip it if you want it..

Jim

Bluecard
March 14, 2005, 03:00 PM
I think the Hi-point is just a big piece of crap. They are extremely heavy, poorly built and are as accurate as a rusty old BB gun. I do have to agree with you though, they do go bang and feed realiably. I'm not crazy about the lack of any firing pin block either. I had one chambered in 9mm and shot several rounds though it before the firing pin snapped in half. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that gun. I agree with trooper, save a little up for a better gun. CZ's are nicely priced and only a little higher than the most expensive Hi-point. You'll be glad if you save for a higher quality firearm. Like a friend of mine says, "What's your life worth?"

boofus
March 14, 2005, 03:01 PM
If your friend is dead set on a cheap .45 try looking at the Rock Island Armory 1911 clones. www.southernohiogun.com had them for $285 shipped for a while. They are nothing fancy, basically the same as the GI 1911A1 from Springfield, but some parts are not exactly milspec (like mainspring housing and extractor).

Every now and then Rock Island makes a lemon but most people that buy one are satisfied.

ProactiveReactionary
March 14, 2005, 03:50 PM
i dont know what gun he wants exactly, all i know is he's deadset on a .45.

ProactiveReactionary
March 14, 2005, 04:27 PM
i dont know what i'm going to get. i know the sooner i get a gun the sooner i'll feel safer for having one. i do want a CZ75B though and thats gonna cost more than i have right now and there's no telling when i'll be able to get one.

so my search continues, im going to keep learning and comparing. im not going to rush out and buy a gun on a whim.

Jim101
March 14, 2005, 05:00 PM
Buy a Bersa .380 and load it with Speer Golddots..........
Academy Sports $199 before tax......

Jim

telcom911
March 14, 2005, 05:25 PM
look or feel. They shoot, period. In auto pistols I have 4 Kimbers, 2 Glocks, 2 CD's/RIA"S, a Browning, a Norinco, and a Styer The Hi-Point is the only one that has never malfunctioned- never. Mine is at about 3,500 rnds since its last cleaning, it really could care less. I do not even wast gun oil on it, a shot of WD-40 in the action every few months seems to do the trick.

For a tackel box gun it is just the thing. PLUS made in America, by Americans (I think about 30 employees in the Co.) with a lifetime no questions asked warranty, it breaks they will fix it. Can't beat that.

The carbine is even a better deal, If you do not have one, get one. Just like the pistols, cleaning seems to be optional, mine has never been cleaned, four years now and it keeps going bang, It's hadier then my mini-14, easier to maintain then my DPMS AR, not as accurate, not as pretty, just as reliable.


I basicly use mine to practice in adverse weather (rain) and harsh condtions, (mud). Keeps the good guns good and does not bother the Hi-Points at all.

If I do trash one of them low crawling through a gravel pit, who cares. They are cheap, and as stated above, Hi-Point will fix them. No one will stand behind that Markov, it breaks, you pay to fix it.

ProactiveReactionary
March 14, 2005, 05:38 PM
telcom makes compelling arguments for a hi point.

besides, it all comes down to opinions and opinions are not wrong or right.


thanks for shedding some positive light on the subject.

PaleRyder
March 15, 2005, 09:19 AM
The owner of my local gun shop was somewhat miffed (In a non serious way) last year when someone out shot his Colt .45 1911 he had souped up for competition with a Hipoint.

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