[grampster]

We have been since 9-11. If you can believe high level government types, there are terrorist sleeper cells in the USA right now, able to do whatever they want, when they want, perhaps just waiting for us to move on Iraq.

If this is true.....and a couple of schools are hit and they kill a few hundred kids, blow up a couple of bulk oil/gas depots, set off a car bomb at a mall, ad nauseum...I wonder what sort of response we will experience from the general population? Just how will our fellow citizens react to multiple acts of war on our land?

I wonder if Americans are really up for doing what it may take to make our country safe again? One wonders if there might not be a wholesale tar and feathering of gun banning politicians? One wonders why there is not a top level, open discussion going on right now in our state houses and media calling for local activism with respect to local owners of firearms to organize into "militia groups" to protect our institutions at the local level. LEO's can't do it!!

One of two things is going to happen in the next couple of weeks:
We are going to disarm Sadaam and install a caretaker government in Iraq starting a shift in political thought and reality in the middle east. Beginning a process that starts to yank them out of the 10th century. Can this, without much repercussion in our country, lead to some paradigm changes in how everyone, worldwide, deals with each other? Can it lead to a moderation of behavior and a recognition in the middle east that separation of church and state is the only thing that will actually civilize the area? Or, is America going to get a severe dose of terrorism that is going to change the public debate the face of our country and how we live even more so than it already has. If the later happens will the debate disolve into in-fighting, blame giving, whining, self flaggelation, recriminations or will we be that "sleeping giant" that sometimes wakes up and unites in a common purpose? Are we even that "sleeping giant" at all any more? Have we become so "diverse" that we no longer are capable of being "American" any longer?

At the risk of being considered callous or cavelier , I think the next few weeks are going to be a watershed of another significant historical time. Extremely interesting and exciting in a serious and sober way. It has the possibility to change our lives, hopefully for the better, for the foreseable future. Any opinions?

Moderator you can slip this over to Political if you want. I didn't realize where my thoughts were going till I was done, actually.
grampster

[Baba Louie]

gramps,

I see two scenarios developing in this upcoming ongoing conflict:

Us against the world with darned few friends - and -

Us against ourselves internally

Neither being a pretty picture.

The world sees us as the one starting the fight with Islam (how quickly they forget) and that ain't good.

The sheep will be clamoring for more protection within our borders and that will mean more police protection by governing authorities and that ain't good.

What was the last tally on those who would give up their freedom for safety? And they really think they'll be safe if they have to present their papers when traveling or doing business anywhere? You own guns? Why?

I could try to project a positive Pax Americana, but I think back to Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged and I wonder how she knew?

Still and all, I do believe in survival of the fittest... lets just see how "Fit" our people really are.

Expect the worst, plan on it, then plan on throwing out the plan when things begin to happen. Fall back on your training, have a Plan B, C & D and be ready to adapt.

The economy is based on confidence. That will be the key I believe.

(Edited to add this link from JFPO

http://www.jpfo.org/ssandguns.htm

end edit)

And China just sits there, the dragon smiling, slowly stretching...

Adios

[grampster]

Baba Louie,
My plan has always been "pull on your pants in the morning and see what happens." Real flexible.

I agree about China. Will be interesting though how long a leash they will allow PRK before they yank that bad hair nit wit up short.

It's odd, but China is confronted with sort of the same problem in the PRK as we have in the middle east in an oblique sort of way.

[Blackhawk]

Excellent points to ponder, grampster.

I do believe that Americans, with their culture of freedom and self reliance, will only tolerate being pushed "so far" before deciding that it's "fighting time."

You said:will we be that "sleeping giant" that sometimes wakes up and unites in a common purpose?I think we will.

However, when Americans get riled up, PC stuff goes out the window. That makes me concerned for the safety of LEGAL aliens with heavy accents who prefer the clothing styles of thier country of origin.... :what:

[TarpleyG]

I see so much of this country's inhabitants asleep at the wheel. They are beyond the reach of anything terrible. NEWSFLASH, folks!!! Grampster is right, we are, and have been, at war. This is likely to continue for a while regardless of what Marin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, and Jeanine Garafalo will have you believe.

GT

[Duke of Lawnchair]

However, when Americans get riled up, PC stuff goes out the window. That makes me concerned for the safety of LEGAL aliens with heavy accents who prefer the clothing styles of thier country of origin....

You and me both. My greatest fear.

[grampster]

I have a great deal of concern for legal immigrants as well.
But......having said that, maybe its time for legal immigrants to come to grips with the fact that they went to a great deal of effort to come to America. As a native born son....I am humbled by the fierce desire and will of those who come to our shores; many at the risk of their lives. But those folks have turned their backs upon their homeland to become one of us, an American. Why is it so hard to understand that we are a culture of our own? Can anyone say that we are better for constantly reminding each other of our differences? Would it not be better to remind each other that putting aside or blending in our differences make us better Americans?
Is it not time, again, to remember that you came to America to become an American. Hold your former culture close to your chest and inculcate it in your family as that family grows and prospers in this country. That is to be admired. Remember it and share it with all of us. We all will benefit.
But at the same time become one of us. Let it be known that you are not a hyphenated-American but truly an American. Hyphenism is going to destroy us.
So throw off the old language and learn the new; throw off the old clothing and blend in, become one of us.
It is hard for multiculturalists to understand, but know the meaning of E Pluribus Unum, From the many, One. The sleeping giant is not a bunch of parts at odds with one another. It is a bunch of different parts that work together for the common good.
God Bless America.

[Blackhawk]

Right again, grampster.

The key to getting along anywhere is the old cliche: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

[El Tejon]

Blackhawk, but America is founded upon the freedom to not do as they do in Rome, or England! The Puritans wore some pretty goofy clothing.

Balkanization is to be avoided as is 1917/1942's overreaction, but the best way to do that is to redouble America's committment to the proposition on which it was founded--freedom.

[Shalako]

If terror cells begin hostilities in America in response to a US led attack on Iraq, the Serrandons of the world will blame it all on America. Forget about all the uprisings the world over to convert the infidels to Islam, the Sheens et al would demand America bow down and make nicey with the terrorists.

[Quartus]

And China just sits there, the dragon smiling, slowly stretching...

Ah! Someone who is actually paying attention!


As much as I love America, I have little hope for her anymore. We are too far gone. :(

[M1911]

We are at war.....We have been since 9-11.Not quite correct. I'd say we've been at war with Iraq since 1991. Since then, we've been flying armed fighter aircraft over their country. They've been trying to shoot down our aircraft. We've been bombing their radars, AAA, SAMs, and other facilities. Both are acts of war.

[hops]

Correct M1911. Legally, the U.S. and it's coalition of 1991 Iraq vs. UN war, is still at war. Iraq agreed to cease-fire. No peace treaty was ever signed that I know of.

Sort of like VE day. WWII in Europe did not legally end until 1990 when the actual peace treaties were signed as part of the German reunification. Technically, we're are still in a State of War with North Korea, as is Russia and Japan.

So, since we have been bombing Iraq for no-fly zone violations and so forth, sending in the ground troops to put an end to all the Iraqi non-sense, seems like a prudent act.

[SodaPop]

I do believe that Americans, with their culture of freedom and self reliance, will only tolerate being pushed "so far" before deciding that it's "fighting time."

The problem with America is, there is a major "culture" clash going on now. Probable 40% of this country can't deal with the water being shut off. What are we like on the road? What's road rage?? How would we act when if we had to ration water and someone in line was moving too slow??

I've been seriously considering becoming some kind of a warlord in my home town. With all of the anti's in the Philadelphia area, I could probable sack and pillage most of the neighboring towns with a small army. I could even section off part of Southeastern Pennsylvania. Maybe even conquer Philadelphia.:evil: I could take full advantage of the chaos and confusion.


And China just sits there, the dragon smiling, slowly stretching

America=Paper dragon????

[Blackhawk]

Blackhawk, but America is founded upon the freedom to not do as they do in Rome, or England!El Tejon, it's either a very old cliche or it originated in Rome, Georgia, U.S.A.... :neener:

[Blackhawk]

Sodapop:America=Paper dragon????Wasn't it the USSR that tagged America as a "Paper Tiger" long before the USSR collapsed after having been outclassed on every front by the U.S...? :rolleyes:

[SodaPop]

The Chinese used the term long before anyone else did. America's homeland is far weaker now than it ever was before. Not to mention this country is as divided as it was during the Civil War.

[sonny]

I've been seriously considering becoming some kind of a warlord in my home town.

GENGHIS POP

With a mini 14:evil:

[Waitone]

We are fast approaching the time when events will draw distinctions in a multitude of directions through our population. When it occurs we will see if political correctness is finally defeated. If PC is victorious we are in deep yogurt.

Political correctness will prevent us from protecting ourselves thereby making us bait for islamofascist terrorists.

[Baba Louie]

Once Blair caves or is ousted, we'll go it alone.

Canada and Australia will follow their mother country unless the Queen or Prince Charles pipes up... don't count on it. Their symbolism would be a plus (dream on Baba Louie).

Maybe Rumania and Slovakia and Hungary will assist.

No, It'll be us.

Israel too.

Alone.

Right in the cross-sights.

Sometimes, aggression is better than caution.

Once everyone realizes what actually lies beneath the cautious kindness and willingness to help others that America exhibits and that is taken for weakness; the fury unleashed will be as close to the Wrath of God as anything the face of this planet has or will ever see.

Sometimes its better to stand alone.

Its Showtime

Adios

[SodaPop]

I've been impressed with Mr. Blair's resolve. I've often wondered how credible the story was that Bin Laden purchased 20 suitcase nukes off a rogue KGB agent. The story has been popping up every couple months. Apparently Blair and Bush were warned by Putin. It's popped up on Drudge but I never hear much about it. I'm pleasantly surprised at Blair's leadership. The guy "is" all alone. Why? What does Britain have to gain?

[M1911]

I've often wondered how credible the story was that Bin Laden purchased 20 suitcase nukes off a rogue KGB agent.If he had them, I'd suspect he'd have used them by now. Stuff one in a container routed to NYC and start the timer. He'd be a hero to the Arab world, which is what he so desperately wants.