C&R knowledge and opinions needed


Red Tornado
March 14, 2005, 03:32 PM
I've finally received my C&R and I'm looking at a pistol first. My decision is between the CZ-52 and the Colt Sistema Modela 1927.

I don't have a 1911A1 and the Sistema will fit the bill for about $300, and I can order it directly with my C&R. In fact, I don't have any .45 pistols. I'm primarily looking at it because it's a low cost 1911A1, not because of historical or collector value. Is reliability good? This will be a range/plinking gun, possibly HD if it's reliable enough, but HD is not a factor in this decision. Is there another option for a similar pistol that's current production and close to the cost?

The CZ-52 is just neat, and I'll probably have one eventually, but I can afford it now and ammo's cheap. It will also be a range/plinking gun. It looks to be loads of fun.

Should I go ahead and get the CZ-52 and save up and look for another 1911 someday (Milspec or G.I.?) or get the Sistema now and pick up a CZ whenever?

Are the supplies of either about to run out? That could be a major factor as well.

Any help and all opinions appreciated.

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Zeke Menuar
March 15, 2005, 12:52 AM
CZ-52's are a dime a dozen right now.

I'd get the Colt.


March 15, 2005, 06:55 PM
"CZ-52's are a dime a dozen right now."

I'd spend the dime, myself.

And did, twice, but, then, I already have a couple of ACP's kicking around.

Still, the anti armour thing is raising dust, and the 7.62x25 is capable of that. It's a lot easier to keep one you have, once outlawed, than to find one for sale. Safer, too.

Be that as it may, the boss says that, my money or not, I've enough of the beasts. Can't see why, I've plenty of pistol hanging room in the gun closet...

I suspect that's because she can sleep (indoors) through .40 S&W practice, fired in the back yard, but the CZ makes enough noise to disturb the mid afternoon nap!

On a serious note, as far as I know, if you don't dry fire it, or use a snap cap, the firing pin will be fine. Evidently the design for the decocker is more questionable, so I consider the weapon to be a 1911 I can load with the safety on.

I've replaced one firing pin and recoil spring, with the second's on order for install in a couple of weeks. For the second, I also picked up the matching extractor, since I really don't need the hastle of multi fitting the stock version after every grind to get it to clear the firing pin spring. While I like the new FP's, since they drop the trigger pull requirements by about half, I'm also "fat" at the moment...

March 15, 2005, 08:50 PM
Who has the Sistema in stock? I was looking for one a while back and all I could find were really overpriced ones on gunbroker, etc.

March 16, 2005, 01:01 AM
I'm with cfabe -- who has Sistemas for $300? I thought the stocks dried up 2-3 years ago. :confused:

Red Tornado
March 16, 2005, 09:19 AM
CFabe, Grandmaster, you are correct, the web page I was looking at was still running but not being updated...for...oh probably 2-3 years. :banghead: The lesson here, as always, is that I'm an idiot. :o Sorry about that.

I really wanted the CZ-52 anyway...yeah that's the ticket. ;) Actually I really do, and sent my C&R etc. to AIM and I'll probably get one ordered next week. I'm pricing 7.62x25 on-line now and it seems AIM has about the best price on that, too.

Thanks for the tips. I don't think I could handle any custom fitting of parts, so I should get the extractor if/when I order a replacement firing pin and spring? Who stocks the parts for the CZ?

I'll pick up a Mil-spec some other day.

March 16, 2005, 11:16 AM
You were looking at Cruffler.com, weren't you? Yeah, the Sistema's have been gone for awhile. Wish I would have grabbed one when they were around.

March 16, 2005, 09:16 PM
Red Tornado:
There are probably others who know better than I, but Makarov.com seens good for parts, although the expense makes the price of the pistol seem insignificant.
I last bought one of the $89 versions, fired a few rounds through it, after cleaning, of course, and think it in better condition than the refinish.
Currently sitting on the shelf at the home base is the extractor, the fining pin and spring, and the 16.5 pound recoil spring, all to be installed when I get there at the end of the month. Round number cost for the parts was roughly that paid for the pistol, the unrebuilt one, which makes zero sense.

Well, I like the weapon, so it does to me, but, I'm sure, to no other thinking individual. (Like I care.)

I wouldn't be all that worried about the gunsmithing part, as my Dremel ground extractor worked OK in the reconditioned one, and I'm hardly a machinist.

But I'm concerned about safety, and I'd warn you again about that decocker, pencil test or not.

Red Tornado
March 17, 2005, 10:28 AM
I check Makarov.com and the parts could add up to more than the pistol quickly.

So, I'm now thinking of ordering the 2 extra magazines and complete part replacement set from AIM for $90. AKA, a second gun to use for parts. I know they're the same quality, but I can choose the best one to shoot, and extra magazine are about $25 each, so that really lowers the cost to about $40 for the second gun, if I subtract the price of the mags. :D

This seems so obvious....is there something I'm missing? :scrutiny:

P.S. Just 'cause.
CZ pronounciation (http://www.filebox.vt.edu/users/atblis/ceskazbrojovka.wav)

March 17, 2005, 07:50 PM
I evidently did the exact same thing, but by accident in my case.

The pistol's fine, although there is the wear bit on the decocker, since the firing pin breaks only with dry fire. Too, I'm not likely at all to try and disassemble the receiver group, since I know my limits, and while I can take anything apart...

I'd point out a couple of things...

Don't bother with a second magazine for carry: the heel mag lock makes any kind of "speed" reload unlikely. (Second dream mod for the weapon: 1911 type mag release.)

Second, disassemble and clean the mags!
They're gooped too.

Finally, while I've a pair of non/semi functional weapons, an old WWII trophy taken by my stepfather and a shot out, but much favored, when it had a reasonable double action trigger, .44 Charter bulldog, I'm not in favor of parts guns. I want everything shootable and shot!


Red Tornado
March 18, 2005, 09:54 AM
I don't intend to carry it, the extra mags are just for range use. I hate stopping to reload mags, and might as well load 4 as 2, and shoot twice as many.

Plus, I'm assuming they'll both be very functional and I might even have a chance to shoot one in each hand, just like in the matrix. :D Not that I ever would, and I'm not admitting to anything. :neener:

That said, I agree with you about having all guns shootable. What will probably happen is that it will just cost me twice as much when I have to buy 2 firing pins, 2 extractors, 2 springs, etc.

Just got off the phone w/ AIM and only bought one. I decided the put the extra money into ammo. I'll have it Monday. The ammo won't be in until Wednesday, but hopefully I can pick up some locally before then.

March 18, 2005, 08:00 PM
Have a great time!

I'll have to wait for the snow to clear the yard before I shoot the auto's again.
Hot brass simply vanishes, and I need it for reloading.

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