Ultimate Hunting Handgun

I am interested in your info on the ultimate hunting handgun. I realize hunting situations vary so I will set some criteria.

-Would be used mainly in southern U.S.(Whitetail, Black Bear,and Varmits,etc...)
-scope or unscoped(red dot, Halo, etc...)
-Cailber(dont need anything to shoot dinosaurs or do I?)
-Accessories?
-Value(Dont want to have to sell the house)


Thanks Folks :D

T/C Encore... you can get any caliber you want, including scoped and unscoped versions.

I'd recommend a "papoose" style cross-chest holster to haul it around in... as "short rifles" don't benefit from the use of a sling.

Now having used a scoped .44 Ruger SBH before... I'd avoid traditional scopes if you plan on hunting in the woods... finding the target in a long eye releif scope is a bear... and Aimpoint or other BIG DOT red-dot style sight is better, or iron sights.

On of the neatest hunting handguns I own is a Dan Wesson in .357 Maximum with a 6 inch barrel... you have plenty of oomph to kill most game in the lower 48, six shots on tap and a revolver that doesn't weigh much more than a model 29 SW. While ammo is pricey, reloading isn't... the 'Max can do amazing things. DW guns can be found at bargain prices too.. $300 isn't unheard of.

this is the best i could do w/ the funds available to me. ruger super redhawk in 480 ruger, nikon 2x scope, shown w/ a s&w 686 for size comparison purposes. its a pretty big gun, and i run handloads thru it that are quite hot. even so, i find the recoil to be manageable, the gun to be very accurate, and it makes a pretty good size hole in deer. i also included an average group... it isn't my best, nor my worst, but is what i expect it to do anytime i take it out. group was shot at 50 yards.

Sweet set up Dakotasin!

Would have to be something like a Contender with multiple calibers as no one caliber will cover all the bases of hunting in the south.

thanks, absolute. the 480 is a lot of fun!

If you're after varmints as well as big game, u ought to take a good look at the Savage Striker as well.

I don't much use straight wall cartridges for hunting anymore. I enjoy the specialty handguns Like the XP-100's and MOA Maximum.
Also enjoy the LR shooting with these types of rigs.

Ernie Bishop

T/C Contender, T/C Encore, or a Savage Striker in 308 will fill any need for a hunting handgun............

My elk rig is a sporter weight 15.75 inch XP-100 (center-grip) chambered in 7.82 Patriot. Pushes a 180 SGK @ 2775 from the muzzle. Also use a 6.5-284 XP and a 6-284 XP. I guess you could say I like XP's.

Ernie

For those conditions, if you wanted to stick with one gun/one caliber, I'd go with a Striker in .308. Mine will do sub MOA with just about everything I feed it.

I have a Contender in .357 Herrett. I saw the post about the .357 Maximum above. The Herrett is a Maximum on steroids. It was designed from the start to be THE perfect handgun hunting cartridge. IIRC the Herrett is about 300 fps faster with any given bullet.

If you go smaller than .35, it's hard to get enough bullet weight to get sufficient knock-down. It's obviously possible, but the problem is you need velocity, which means high pressures and long barrels, and more muzzle blast. Then again, if you have a longer (14-16 inch barrel), you may as well be carrying a rifle. This is my issue with rifle calibers in handguns.

If you go into the .45 range, there's enough knockdown/energy, but recoil becomes an issue and you don't get enough speed to shoot flat. I've shot enough .454's to know that it's not a lot of fun.

Now, you didn't say what ranges you wanted to shoot at. I use a Bisley in .45 LC for deer, but it's iron sighted and I'd be hard pressed for a shot past 40 yards. Where I hunt, there's corn fields and shots could be as far as you can see. That would be way too limiting if it were the only gun.

With the Herrett, I can go from 110 grain varmint loads to 158's. Large enough for elk, small enough for varmints. I know some guys at a local shop that shoot a LOT of steel with Contenders. They recommend Weaver scopes. I asked about Leo, Bushnell, Burris, etc. They said the Weavers were hands-down better. Something in the range of a 1/2-4x or maybe 2-7x would be great

thing I still have a hard time grasping is how the Contender can be so exceptionally accurate, have so much power, and still have very manageable recoil. The Contender is about the size/weight of a "standard" pistol, but has the whack of a rifle. If the Herrett isn't your thing, there's plenty of calibers to choose from. HTH

I want one of these but in .44Mag.

http://usera.imagecave.com/JCW/100_0394-copy-copy.jpg

This is my Ultimate Small Game Gun.

Jay

Another possiblity would be the Contender in 30-30 AI. It's one of those cartridges that performs better than it has a right to. Biggest mistake I ever made was trading mine off.

T/C Contender in 7X30 Waters or T/C Encore in 7mm08. Either will do what you require. The Contender is nicer to carry in the field. Both will benefit from careful handloading.

If you are going to use any of the calibers these guys have stated, it's a short barreled rifle without a butt stock, it you want a Handgun to hunt with check these out.
It is a Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter in 45 colt. It has a Leupold 2x ER scope and does just fine. I paid $450 for the gun comes with rings for the scope, the Scope can be had for around $200, Brass(100), Bullets(500), Lee dies $65, Scabbard holster was $80. I had primers and powder.

http://www.gunpix.com/gallery/Handguns/Double_Action_Revolvers/rugerSBHH45colt.jpg

i might get flamed for this, but the desert eagle in .44mag could do the trick. lessened recoil, scope mount on top, etc...

~TMM

Another vote for the 45 Colt. Less operating pressures than the 44 mag, less recoil, more potential power with heavier bullets not to mention a wider bullet. Cowboy loads will work great for rabbits, etc., 255gr. Keith bullets at 1000fps work great on deer and the 300gr. and heavier bullets work on bear through buffalo (literally). Line Linebaugh reports 360gr. hard cast slugs will fully penetrate cape buffalo.

The 45 Colt really is a "mice to moose" cartridge.

44Mag and 41Mag get my vote.

Next year, 2006, I plan on going home to MN to go deer hunting and purchaseing a ruger super redhawk in 45LC / 454 combo. I've shot it at the range a few times, love the way 45LC comes out, the 53 oz weight cuts that recoil down, but the 454 is a hand full to say the least.

.44 mag of your choice. Ought to take out anything in North American except grizzlies yet is still managable with practice and training. If you tend toward smaller critters like deer and boars then maybe a .357 mag would be plenty.
Oh yeah, at least a 6" barrel for the improved accuracy.

A little history on the 357 magnum and what it's capable in the right hands...

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

Black Bart,
What varmints and at what distance?

Brian W, YOU HAVE MY GUN! HA. I have that gun in that caliber with a slightly different scope. GOOD CHOICE! It is a fine firearm, quite accurate and PLENTY of power. I deer/hog gunt with it in SE Arkansas thickets. (BTW, Brian, I am in State College currently visiting my son and his family. LOVE PA. NICE weather compared to home which we have to go back to next week.)

Brian Williams nailed it.

That's what I'd use also if I was to use a handgun for hunting. Sweet piece.

I just saw the article on the question on a hunting handgun. I just bought a
7x30 waters contender and love it. I know NEXT to nothing about it except, I bought it, put almost 2 boxes through it and,,,,,,, had 1 one shot kill of a 6 point whitetail at just over 160 yards. He managed about 6 steps before he dropped. Nice 139 pounder. I am about to go and really test the gun in about 10 days. The average range is 250-300 yards.
The person I bought the gun from said he often shot it 225-250.
I will not be the accurate esp with the 6x power scope. I am actively searching for its replacement.
My 15 year shot it and loved it, My father and 2 brothers both shot it and are each bidding on ebay as we speak. I hope this helps in your decision.
Lloyd

SMith and Wesson PC light hunter in 44 mag - have one with a holosight on it.

Impressively accurate . . .

Ruger .44 Mag gets my vote

+1 for Contender. I like my .30-30 12" compensated hunter barrel with 2x scope. It shoots like a rifle, carries and handles like a handgun. I carry it in an uncle mike's shoulder rig. I don't care for the "hand rifles" like the old XP100 Remington, you know, cut off rifle stock with bolt action. I consider 'em a waste of a good carbine. I don't call it a handgun if I can carry it in some sort of holster. The Contender is a nice handgun. It's large, but no bulkier than all the new hand cannon revolvers out. And, in .30-30, you can reach out and touch 'em. The accuracy must be witnessed to be believed.

You can get whatever caliber you need to do the job up to .45-70 with a contender. If that ain't enough, step up to the Encore. .30-30 is all I need for deer and hog. Swap out for the .22 and I'm suddenly squirrel hunting.

A contender is the most accurate firearm I've seen mentioned in this thread. Hunting is about accuracy as well as power. The contender will rival a lot of rifles for accuracy. If you have a good rest, 200 yards is no problem.

Here's a shot of Xphunter's new "handgun". It's an Allen Precision Shooting 7 Dakota XP with Lilja 18" 7 twist barrel/Holland QD muzzle break/McMillan center grip/8.5-25X Leupold Mk4/TMR reticle. His load shoots the .8 BC 200 gr. Wildcat bullet @ 2700 fps mv, and has over 1700 ft. lbs. @ 1000 yds. IMO, this is the ultimate long-range big game handgun setup--

http://www.hunt101.com/img/408316.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=408316&c=500&z=1)

Oh sure, but who wants to drag a deer back 1000 yrds.:neener:

Cute Johnny--cute:barf:

We lab techs know all about u icu nurses.

To each, his own. At one time I owned such, but sold it. I never have considered the pistol grip, short barreled, rifle caliber using mutants to be a handgun.
For handgun hunting, I would suggest a S&W 629 .44mag. I favor the 5" Classic.
It is great for woods carry in a hip holster, in the off season. For hunting you can keep the open sight's, or put on a holosight and push the range out to 100 yards. 240gr loads for Deer, and 310gr Garrett loads for Elk.
The 5" 629 along with a 5.5" .45LC Blackhawk, are my favorite hunting hadguns.
These two, make perfect Hunting and packing handguns.

Some other options are the .44mag Ruger Redhawk, .44mag Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk, and the Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk in .44mag or .45LC.

Okay, to expand on the previous post and answer the revolver vs hand rifle thing, "handgun" is subjective and the definition is up to you. While I used to think the contender was more a hand rifle, in my eyes now days, it is the ultimate hunting handgun system. It is still compact in a shoulder holster, still shoots like a handgun, and to me looks like a pistol, not a rifle sans butt stock. This is just my personal tastes, not rule of law, and others will disagree and call the Savage the cat's meow, but I just don't care much for rifle bolt actions with no stock, ain't a handgun to me. Again, this is subjective, no rule, just my tastes in handguns. If I'm going to hunt with a bolt action rifle, I'm going to keep the butt stock on it.

Revolvers in good calibers like .45 Colt and .44 magnum are fine to 100 yards and I've found that in my experience, it's danged hard to get a steady enough hold in the field to push ranges much beyond 100 yards anyway with a handgun. Out west, shooting over a day pack might give me more sand bag solid holds, but here in the eastern part of Texas, the grasses and terrain eliminate the possibility of getting that close to the ground. Actually, I'm shooting out of tripod stands or box blinds, usually.

That said, I still prefer the TC Contender switch barrel system. I go for 10-12 inch barrels for portability because they're more like a handgun. I shun the super 14s. They're beginning to resemble hand rifles with that length. Again, personal tastes only. The super 14 gets better exterior ballistics from a rifle cartridge, but I'd rather be shooting a shorter barrel gun. I currently have a 10" .45 Colt/.410 which when the choke is off is 7". That gun, with a scope, shoots about 7 moa, adequate for broad side shots to 100 yards if not stellar. A FANTASTIC shooting revolver will shoot about 4 moa, so this is not much off a good revolver. The chamber free bore is the culprit here, but with irons on it, it makes a very compact, powerful handgun afield. For serious deer/hog hunting (biggest game I chase) I have a 2x scoped .30-30 12" hunter barrel with built in compensator which really works to tame recoil. The .45 Colt will let you know it fired, quite stiff recoil with heavy loads. The .30-30 hunter barrel is about like shooting a medium frame .38 with light loads, amazing, but WEAR HEARING PROTECTION with it. I found that out the hard way afield.:banghead: It's not bad in the open, but in a box blind it can ring your bells. Handloaded with 150 Nosler Ballistic tip or Barnes 140 X bullet, this gun shoots about 1.5 MOA and is powerful enough to be good to 200 yards. It's throwing down nearly 1000 ft lbs at 200 yards, so 100 yards is NO problem and it's surgically accurate. My other hunting barrel is a superbly accurate .22 Rimfire with 2x scope. These three barrels will get anything I need doing done in hunting. I'd not mind adding a .223 barrel, but I don't hunt varmints and the .30-30 will do fine on coyotes. I'd like a .45-70, but again, the .30-30 with Barnes bullets is fine for Hogs. I read and article about the .45-70 once that called it a 150 yard sledge hammer. :D I cannot argue that point! I've been thinking of selling my IHMSA barrel (don't shoot IHMSA anymore) in 7mm TCU with its IHMSA sight and buying a .45-70 barrel. I could let the brass and dies go with it, too, should give me a good start on a .45-70 barrel and scope.

To me, a TC Contender or Encore with multiple barrels for multiple tasks is about as good as handgun hunting gets. I don't bother with my revolvers when I'm hunting anymore, one shot, one kill.

Well Steve for what it's worth, I've got a 16 inch super heavy bull barrel in 6tcu that is slowly coming to be at OTT. For the next one I'm thinking 222mag AI with a twist that will stablize those long heavy bullets. I wanna see if I can hit one of those 775yd PD's.

And I was just wondering, do you lab techs ever admit you spilled the blood, or do they train you to say, "the blood was clotted when it got here."? :D

May not be the "ultimate" hunting handgun but I've sure shot a lot of game with my 629 six inch. Ranges from 20 yards to 130 yards on white tail, three or four hogs, rabbit, squirrels, and various other odds and ends of small game. 275 grain Keith style SWC, at 1200fps. Deer and hogs fall in their tracks.

Springfield Custom Shop 6" 1911, fully adjustable sights, low glare finish, caliber 10mm. Loaded hot.:evil:

Ha-- touche' my friend-- u really do know us lab techs don't u?? Have u ever considered CRNA. Got a couple buddies that've been doing it for more than 10 yrs. now, and i make them pay for all our hunting trips--Hardy Har.

How's about Ray's 775 yarder? U know that was more fun than watching Ernie's super-long rangers.

This will shoot 45/LC or .454. Even if you don't reload, you can find mild to wild cartridges. I've shot everything from varmints to all manner of bigger game. Some of the hot loads are both flat and powerful and can easily tag big animals over 100 yds with a good rest. I've taken hogs and deer at 80+ yds. Only complaint is the grips on the hot Casull rounds. I'm gonna try some AK grips.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/gbran/DSC00242.jpg

Maybe one of these days, actually was considering a WOCN, but right now I love what I do and that's more important than money. Dang near cost me a marriage to figure that one out.
Ray be the man, I hear that PD's tremble when they smell him downrange. Course I seem to remember a couple of fair shots coming from you and Ernie too. Ray was nice enough to sell me the blank I'm using for my new barrel, he's a good guy all around.

Sold the 7x30 waters barrel on ebay. Got the .257 JDJ earlier this year from JDJ. I had to buy the dies and find some one local to load the rounds though. I need to learn to do that myself. Not expensive but just a pain to have someone else doing it.
.257 in a 15 inch shilen barrel. I am only target shooting at this point. Using 75 grain and a 101 bt. Amazing how two differant rounds can shoot so differant. The BT has been the better round to date but is more expensive to produce. I have not shot over 300 yards yet. Still trying differant distances. The loads are still going on the light side still as well. A couple more rounds through them and beefing them up each time.
I had ordered the .375 from JDJ but decided to cancel it. I don't need anything that size!!! I love the contender,, not really much of a handgun though with a barrel that size. Still easier to carry around than a rifle in my opinion.
Lloyd

Well, on size, you go put a scope on a super redhawk and tell me how it's smaller or lighter than a scoped contender...:rolleyes: I've seen 10" SRHs that look like they'd weigh as much as a light rifle with a good scope attached.

1700 ft-lbs at 1000 yards means that the bullet has only lost ~700fps and it still travelling at 1957fps at 1000 yards....That's a big "I don't think so." With a 200 grain bullet, I'm having a hard time believing that. Not calling you a liar or trying to start an arguement, but the physics just don't add up quite right for that number to be realistic that far out. Plus, an 18 inch barrel, that's not a pistol, it's called a carbine without a rifle stock.

I like the 454 casull. You can shoot 45lc for plinking, and the casull rounds for putting down big game up to the size of an elk. All for much less than some juiced up TC style gun. But I have a friend who's brother owns several, and it's all he hunts with. Kind of a cult with those folks. I'm not knocking it, it's just out of my wallet's and desire's league.

jeepmor

Nice Florida hawg gun......

S&W 627PC.....8 rounds of .357 Mag with an Aimpoint on top.

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL875/3165911/6449842/103230289.jpg

Sorry about the 200 gr. error-- remaining energy is 1300 ft. lbs./1700 fps. @ 1000 yds. SAP, i believe/59 degrees/1000 ft. elevation

1600 ft. lbs. left at 1000 yds. SAP/59 degrees/9000 elevation.

forgot about conditions


Looks like that program didn't correct pressure for altitude-- the eskimo ballistics calculator does, so here's the most accurate 1000 yd. ballistics correcting sea level SAP for 9000 ft. elevation--

2700 fps. mv, 200 gr. .8 BC=

1950 fps, and 1680 ft. lbs.

The BC I use on the 200 grain Wildcat is .825 and the MV is 2706. This is the BC I used at a elev of 2450 to match my trajectory in Nebraska. I averaged the typical elevation we hunt at in SW Colorado and plugged in 8500 feet. With the Kestrel and Exbal on the pocket PC I will have exact data in the field.
With that data in Exbal I have 1696 ft pounds energy and a impact velocity of 1954 fps.
I would need 2.25 MOA dialed in a for a 10 mph wind @ 1k (34.5 inches). temp and humidity are both set at 35 degrees/%.
Norma brass, Fed. match mag primers and Retumbo (match chamber-lightly turned necks) have given me excellent accuracy out to 1k off a Harris BR bi-pod. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it further yet.
It would be normal to doubt the data given most bullets weighing 200 grains in 7mm. This is a ULD (Ultra Low Drag) RBBT (Rebated Boattail) bullet.
Hope this clears up any questions.

:eek: Could you maybe post a picture of this bullet? I've never ever heard of a BC that high. Best I've ever heard of is a 50BMG boat tail 750 grain bullet at around .750. 6.5mm bullets, the 140s, have BCs something over 0.5. 150 Sierra Game Kings in 7mm run .535 just off the top of my head and that is VERY high for a rifle bullet, let alone something out of a handgun.:eek: Not saying it ain't true, I just never heard of such a high BC before, kind of shocking.

You can take this or leave it,but my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag. does just fine. Good range and very accurate plus no house selling required.

MC-- some of the big traditional custom 180 7's r approaching .7-- Berger, Cauterucio,etc. JLK's advertising .735 for their 180. There's another company-- can't remember the name now that's producing some very high BC bullets also-- used to advertise in Bugle magazine. The 300 Sierra MK is pretty high as well-- don't have that info with me now, as i'm at work. Isn't Hornady's 750 50 cal something like 1.05??

The bullet's we're shooting r Richard Graves Wildcat bullets right here-- www.wildcatbullets.com. The design is VLD, of course, but the weight helps drive the BC up quite a bit (hence the ULD designation). And when meplat-uniformed have given some very impressive vertical performance at 1K (besides probably helping with terminal ballistics as well). I'm getting around 2600 out of my XP 7-270 WSM, and had perfect performance on a 320 yd. lung shot buck last season. Of course, u have to have a 7 twist rifling pitch to stabilize it, but out of my rig on silhouettes out to 700 yds. the .8+ BC is matching the actual trajectory very close.

My favorite hunting handgun for years has been my S&W 629 6". It's killed many deer, 10+ hogs, 3 coyotes, a black bear and one unlucky 'possum. My soon-to-be new favorite is a S&W .460 XVR. 2,000 FPS and can also shoot .454 Casull and .45 Long Colt. Only reason it isn't yet is that I just bought it in the spring and haven't had a chance to hunt with it yet.

I would choose a S&W 500 myself!

MC,
A bullet is a bullet as far as BC goes (I know their is some difference when talking about large MV spreads). We use rifle cartridges and rifle bullets in our specialty handguns.
Sierra's 142 Match King (.264) has a BC of .595 whereas the 115 DTAC (6mm VLD also made by Sierra) has a BC of .585. These bullets are approaching close to a .6 BC and they are smaller calibers.

You lose about 300 fps or so between a rifle length barrel versus a specialty pistol for a given cartridge.
While a tight dimensioned 7mm Dakota chamber in a rifle will likely push the 200 WC close to 3000 fps (and a 8 twist will stabilize the 200 WC) I used this cartridge to approximate the performance of a 7mm WSM in a specialty handgun. Here is a pic of the 200 WC besides the 7mm Dakota case. The dakota case is 2.5 inches long if I remember right.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/400254.jpg

You know, I'm such a nube at the SP thing I don't understand half of what you guys are talking about half the time. But it sure is a hoot seeing what you've accomplished. Ernie, any chance you're coming down to the Okie shoot in Sept?

FWIW I use both bullets mentioned in my last post in a 6-284 XP and in a MOA Maximum 6.5-284.

Okie
I can't remember the date at the moment, but I thought I had a conflict when I first read the post.
Date?
Range length?
I thought they were talking about two options at one time.

I know Gerald was shooting for the 16th but I haven't heard anything in a while. May not have been enough interest to keep it going. I think the farthest range they were looking at was 300yrds.
I've been looking for some place around here to stretch out to at least 500yrds. Anything farther than that and I'm not sure my 308 would even be in the running. Been looking at the possiblity of buying a few acres up in far NW Okla just for some long range shooting, then the Striker would get rebarreled to 6.5-284.

When u start experimenting with these high BC bullets beyond .7 or so, it is just amazing what can be accomplished. That 1st photo was a 1st shot connection @ 1000 yds. using that "handgun." He was challenged to it right from confirming a 200 yd. zero. He accessed Exbal Ballistics Program on a Dell Axim, and it provided the horizontal and vertical compensation for a 5-10 mph wind. He just applied it to the big Leupold, got set up, and took the shot-- when we watched the hole form on the 36" 1000 yd. disc thru the spotting scopes, we about fell off our chairs. The significance of applying these techniques in the field is profound, but unfortunately rarely investigated from a "handgun," even though the resources r all around us. Here's another 1--

www.perry-systems.com
testimonials-- Steve Hugel

That coyote's in my den now, hanging from a bookcase-- unlucky?? maybe, but it was definitely a calculated luck.

460 S&W... shoot light 45 colt loads for small game in close then throw in the 460's for deer and elk at 200 yards out... still has more energy at 100 yards then a 44 mag out of the barrel :eek: ... can't get more versitile then that... oh yea and doesn't beat the snot out of you like the casull does.... but if your into that type of sadistic stuff then you can shoot those also... just not sure why you would want to...:confused:

My 7.5" PC 460 will print groups in the 4" range with the hornady ammo at 200 yards standing with shooting stix....


I keep switching between an aimpoint and a leupold scope.. the scope is nice at 200 but the aimpoint is faster at anything closer then 150 yards..

Well, I went to the range yesterday and played with my Blackhawk in .357 magnum. This gun has a 6.5" barrel, isn't that heavy, can easily be worn on a belt. Yet, with the irons, I can put those 180 grain XTP pills into <4" at 100 yards. My 158 grain SWC load is almost as accurate. I've already killed a deer with that load at about 60 yards. The 180 grain pill, though, is only 2" high at 50 yards, yet POA at 100. I think I might use that gun again this season and leave the Contender in it's case for a bit. It only makes about 785 ft lbs at the muzzle, but the deer I shot at 60 yards folded up like my .308 had hit him. Just gotta put it where it counts, I reckon. It has enough bullet to totally penetrate both shoulders which helps. I know there are better calibers than .357 and I have a .45 Colt Blackhawk that shoots really well, though it's only got a 4 5/8" barrel. I've shot the .357 more at extended ranges, though, and have some confidence in hitting way out there with it.

Isn't Hornady's 750 50 cal something like 1.05??

I doubt it, since as I understand BC that would mean the bullet would gain velocity with range. ROFL Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinkin' 1.00BC is the theoretical maximum that no bullet can exceed, sort of like the speed of light. 1.00 BC would mean drag would be zero and the bullet would not lose velocity with range. I just remember reading the .750 BC number in an article about long range .50 cal shooting some time back.

I think you hit on the crux of why I couldn't shoot those bullets, though, would require a quite tight rifling twist. I reckon I'll stick with what I'm shooting, but thanks for the links. Most places I hunt, 100 yards is long range. I've made near 400 yard shots before, but it's very rare and the longest deer shot I've made was 350 yards across a canyon out in the Guadeloupe mountains, not something I make a habit of and perhaps I was risking a lost deer by doing it there, but things turned out okay. For one thing, though, it's rare an animal will stand still long enough for me to get a fix on him with my range finder and judging range across a canyon like that is tough and you have to be pretty well on with my loads cause they start droppin' pretty good at that range. But, here in the coastal plains of Texas, feeder watching a feeder at 50 yards, I can use a friggin' flat nosed .30-30. :rolleyes: LOL!

for my purposes the T/C 375JDJ is the ultimate....220 gr. FP's for deer , 270 gr. for elk, moose, etc...and 300 FMJ for elephant, rhino, cape buffalo and other game including ones with teeth...of course, I will never make it to Africa..I bought a T/C G2 contender rifle in 375JDJ to match the pistol...and it is very accurate also..

A S&W Performance Center Light Hunter in .44 magnum might be a real candidate for that, "Ultimate Hunter".



http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=14805&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=

I have a local shop reloading for me. His specs are not close to the ones I received from JDJ. The local guy said he will evenutally be able to get close to those numbers but in reality, the numbers I was given were not realistic. He said the manufacter is lying. He also said it would take shooting each round 2dozen or more times before he could get those loads even close. That is what he told me. I would not have thought the casings would last that long. He has been loading for over 20 years in this local gun shop. Thoughts, comments? It is a Contender, SSK .257 JDJ.
Bullet 100 NBT
POWDER H4895
Grain 26.15 (JDJ said 35.5)
Velocity from JDJ was showing around 2650
Velocity from local shop said 2100
JDJ said start the loads 15% lighter and work up.
Case is a reformed for 225 winchester
Would you agree or disagree to this information?
Thanks,

Here's mine

Another vote for the Contender.Can be had for a decent price and you can set it up for whatever you might be going after that day.From mice to elephants.Just pick a barrel,insert the pin screw on the forearm,load up and go.






one shot one kill

I recently bought a 14 inch 30 herrett barrel for my Contender. It may just replace my striker as my go to gun.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/417808.jpg
That's a 3 shot group at 100 yrds, from a rest of course.

I have to agree that the ultimate rig is an Encore/Contender with scoped barrels in whatever caliber takes your fancy. I've hunted with a Contender in .223 and .35 Rem, and an Encore in .243. All were very accurate.

But over time, I gravitated toward revolvers. Most of the time I hunt eastern hardwoods, and a 100 yard shot is rare. So my preferred hunting rig at this point is a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag, 7.5" barrel, with a Leupold M8 4X EER scope. I carry it in a Bandito shoulder rig by Pistol Packaging (https://sf2000.registeredsite.com/~user593430/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PP&Category_Code=B). I like the .44 mag a lot, and like the quick follow-up shot if needed.

Just got back from the range with my newest aquisition (14" 30 WCF)

I had some fun with it, and always love the looks from folks around me when I touch it off... :)

NOW...down to the serious stuff...

I suggest a good TC setup. Perhaps two frames...one for rifle and one for pistol...I keep a 17 HMR 20" and a 45-70 16.25" on a rifle frame with Rynite. Pistol gets everything else...the 223 can do the varmint stuff...7-30 or 30 WCF for piggies and deer, 35 Remington for the bigger stuff, and then when you just have to make some noise and such, a 44 Magnum. I know a few folks who chamber a 444 Marlin with a Contender, close to its max allowed back-thrust...I tried a 445 Supermag a few times...its about on par with the 45-70 in pistol form...both will suprise you...and ruin the day of whatever is on the recieving end. I will eventually get an Encore just to get a 500 S&W...either that or one of the older BP 50's like a 50-110 or a 50-70 Govt.


MTCW
D

I had my 44mag rechambered to 444 with a big brake on it. Pulled it out whenever I felt like some one was crowding me on the bench. One round thru that and people would spread out right quick.:evil: Got rid of it when I decided it was too expensive to feed, but I'm currently about half way searching for a 14" 44 to rechamber to 445.

I like alot of different handguns but I'd definatly give the nod to a Dan Wesson revolver as a primary hunting hangun. If your not hunting anything too big 357 would be fine. I' lean towards 44 mag myself. With a DW you can have an extra barrel shroud with an optic for easy switching back and forth.

If you are on a budget, here it is, plain and simple:

Ruger Redhawk, 44 MAG with an 8 inch barrel. Eight inch barrel will give you all the range and accuracy you need, and will ease the recoil.

Just use the iron sights.

Lloyd,
What is your barrel length?
I am assuming your current load that is being chronoed has already been fireformed, right?
JD's specs might be overstated sometimes, but not by that much usually.

+1 on the contenders...tons of caliber barrels available, from 22 Rim fire, to 45-70...

my personal favorites are 22 hornet ( great for varmenting out to 75-100 yards )

7-30 Waters, picks up where the Hornet leaves off ( great for larger varments to small to medium sized deer, & great for long shots )

30-30 transitions next on into the deer area, not a great a long range cartridge, but seemingly better knock down, & works everybit as good out of a Contender, as out of a lever gun...

45-70... this is my deer gun, capable of printing 3 leaf clover targets out to 75 yards with a normal field type rest, better than that off the bench

I have an awesome laminated thumb hole stock, that I keep on one action, that has a vent rib 410 / 45 colt barrel on it... it is my rabbit gun, & can be shot pistol style, or off the shoulder

of course any of the specialized cartridges work great, as do the "normal" hand gun cartridges, changing barrels is so fast & easy... the guns & barrels are very reasonably priced... the most expensive part for me, is keeping a good quality scope on each barrel...


I have a buddy that owns a Savage Striker in 308... I'd probably pick a 7-08 if I was only going to pick one gun, & didn't want the Contenders...

Tried them all - have a lot of the above mentioned, including a nail driving 7-30 Waters Encore but when it comes right down to something coming at me at a gallop of 40+ mph./head down/focused on my body ... S&W 4" 500 ... loaded to the Max. with one of our pile-driving reloads ... well, then I feel OK.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/zipperzap/fcd47e8c.jpg
... and accuracy? Usually hit 5 for 5 at 60 yards!:eek:

Here's my other 'hunter' handgun. This Redhawk has been tuned and acts as if it's on steroids! It's hard to miss out to about 100 yards+.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/zipperzap/0629b4c2.jpg

The barrel length is 15 inches. The brass has been fire formed already. The question has more to do with long range shooting. JDJ said the .257 in his oppinion is the best long range varmit and whitetail round he has available for the contender. Some of his loads reached up to/ just under 3000 fps at 1000 yards with a sierra 75. I am using the 100 NBT so it will loose velocity. I of course won't even attempt anything close to a 1000 yard anything. It is more of an argument of specs between JDJ and my local gun shop. The local guy told me JDJ must be using a 23 inch barrel to get that velocity. Anything shorter is impossible.
(see the sweet custom grip/forend)

Lloyd,
JD's cartridge/wildcat is one of the better 25 cal's for the Contender.

I don't understand this statement: "Some of his loads reached up to/ just under 3000 fps at 1000 yards with a sierra 75."

The BC of a 75 grain Sierra will not allow it to be going 3000 fps @ 1k from any cartridge in any specialty pistol. Light bullets with low BC's shed their velocity to fast.
Since I am not familiar enough with the load data/best powders for your cartridge in a 15" barrel I would suggest you check out the specialty pistol forum http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x as there are a lot more folks there who could give you a better realistic muzzle velocity for JD's cartridges which is also called the 25x225 Improved and they may have some good load data for the man to try who loads for you.

I use a 100NBT in a 250 Savage Ackley Improved XP-100 and my MV with a 16.5 inch barrel is 2875 (which is accurate but max load in my XP).

Another statement I don't understand from your loading guy is, "He also said it would take shooting each round 2dozen or more times before he could get those loads even close."

Is he talking about slow load development (to make sure he doesn't get into pressure problems) or does he think that by firing the brass so many times makes it stronger?

I'm pretty sure Gerald (aka Fyrepowrx) on the specialty pistol board shoots a 257jdj, he shoots just about every quarterbore. He may be able to give you some info.

MC, if u're still viewing this thread, i checked the BC awhile back on the 50 cal 750 Hornady, they do claim a BC of 1.05.

Hmm, if that's the case, then I guess my understanding of what BC is is a bit flawed, or that's a typo or something. As I understand it, a BC over 1.0 would mean the bullet would accelerate as it left the barrel. :uhoh:

Maybe someone with a better understanding of the math I've forgotten can enlighten us. If I was all that worried about it, I'd go dig out the math. I got a publication from Rifle magazine with exterior ballistics formulas in order to write an exterior ballistics program back in the 80s before computers were common. I had a Timex Sinclair (remember those?), then a Tandy Color 3. It worked great. The article was algebraic equations derived from the differential equations (I never did really understand calculus even though I took it:rolleyes: ) written by a PhD, professor of mathematics at New Mexico State or some New Mexico school. Hey, I was a Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences major which was not heavy in mathematics, so give me a break, LOL. It was pretty straight forward, if a bit detailed, to transfer those formula to a program code written in BASIC. I added the statistical calculations, fortunately, understood THAT in school. But, it's been a few years since I was involved in all that and I'm going senile in my old age. Perhaps I'm not thinking right about it?

Did some googling. Seems that BC of 1.00 is a theoretical bullet of 1" diameter weighing one pound, or some BS. Don't quite understand how ogive of the standard bullet comes to play. Anyway, it's not a zero to one thing like I was thinking, it's just a comparison to this standard projectile. You can read more about it at http://www.shootingsoftware.com/coefficients.htm , but it explains to me how a bullet can have a BC over 1, now. :banghead:

MCgunner,
We all get it wrong sooner or later on some topic, but not all people will admit it to their peers.

Thanks for sharing the info!

There was Elgin Gates' 7mm Rimmed International, a necked-down .30-30 with a sharp shoulder and less taper for more powder capacity. Not quite the 7-30, and definitely not the 7mm Imperial, but pretty darned spiffy.

Knocking over 200 meter steel rams isn't the only thing the round does well. I've got feral hogs and whitetail deer in my freezer over the last 8 years or so with my 10" Wichita Silhouette in 7mm Rimmed International:

http://mauser98.com/wichitarightplonk.jpg

Very impressive writing an external ballistics program back in those days MC. Thks. for the RSI reference sir.

.357 mag is hard to beat for most species. I would throw in the 10mm just because of the versatility. Ted Nugent has killed just about every animal with it.

I am interested in your info on the ultimate hunting handgun. I realize hunting situations vary so I will set some criteria.

-Would be used mainly in southern U.S.(Whitetail, Black Bear,and Varmits,etc...)
-scope or unscoped(red dot, Halo, etc...)
-Cailber(dont need anything to shoot dinosaurs or do I?)
-Accessories?
-Value(Dont want to have to sell the house)


Thanks Folks

Hi,

I hunt in Georgia (whitetail and hogs) so I'm also a southern US hunter.

I once had a "classic" 3-screw Ruger Superblackhawk, as well as a Thompson Center Contender . . . both in .44mag. Neither was as satisfying as my current handgun . . . my 1990 S&W Model 29 in .44mag.

IMHO, you don't need any more powerful round for southern hunting, and unless you have extreme open ranges, you won't need any of the single shot pistols chambered in the benchrest rifle rounds.

Thus, I'd recommend a revolver chambered in either .41 mag or .44 mag.

SCOPES?

Nahhhh. Again, unless you expect lots of longer shots, a red dot sight of high quality will allow much faster target acquisition in deep woods.

Here's my rig, along with preferred hunting round too. I wouldn't change a single component. I LOVE this set up and I've taken scores of deer with it . . . including twice when I've dropped THREE deer within mere seconds. A holosight allows this kind of super-fast target acquisition.:

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/246/246167/folders/193542/1994490IMG1599b.JPG


NOTE: The gap on the top end of the barrel is from where I removed the original S&W adjustable front "Sillouette" sight, so to allow quiet unholstering of the revolver. This gun is not ported. I actually plan on leaving my rifles at home this fall and just hunt with this rig.

Question,

Any good sites to sell a contender on the web? (I know it would need to go to an ffl dealer for pick up).


Quote from JDJ @ SSK industries (The 257 gets up to 2900 FPS with an 85 grain to make it the most effective long range varmint caliber for Contenders, and the same load is excellent for whitetail and antelope).

G2 with 15 inch shilen match grade .257 heavel barrel from SSK-JDJ. ($500)
JD's TSOB with 3 Rings ($75)
Georgia Jim's fore end and grip ($200) beautiful.........
Burris 3x12 Scope ($375)
.257 Dies ($65) with loading specs
100 fire formed 225 winchester spent rounds, only used 1x ($40)
G2 frame ($?) not sure the value.
ALL OF THIS NEW THIS YEAR.

Thanks for the help.

I love this pistol best! The BF pistol. I had it made for me in 6.5 BR mag. and It is not a magnum at all really. Mearly a wildcat from 30-30 brass necked to 6.5mm. But man does this baby shoot. I bought it here: http://www.eabco.com/bfus01.html
and waited 6 friggin mo's to get it. Quite a waiting list but worth it! I usually get rifleman at the range either upset that it out shoots their rifle or they just can't belive it even when they watch through their spotting scope. It will print wedding ring groupings at 50 yds. and moa at 100 all friggin day! I would not hesitate (with the proper rest) to shoot game out to 250 yds. I have only shot deer with it out to about 80 yds. since that was the longest shot of the few deer hunting oppurtunies since I've had it. Highly recommended! My next fave is my Desert Eagle 44 mag. Great brush pistol.