.45 Sap


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patentmike
March 15, 2005, 10:53 PM
I'm interested in getting one of the new 45 SAPs I've been hearing about. I've never seen one at a gun store, though. Anybody know where to get one?

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Preacherman
March 15, 2005, 11:53 PM
Either you mean the .45 GAP, or you're thinking of a non-firearm bludgeon-type weapon... :confused:

MICHAEL T
March 16, 2005, 12:54 AM
If he buys one he will be the SAP :D

sharpie613
March 16, 2005, 03:21 AM
Could he be talking about the GAP parody I saw a while back? Alas, the real name of it escapes me, or I would turn my faithful dog Google loose on it.

patentmike
March 16, 2005, 10:38 AM
OK, here it is. I just heard that some people took it seriously.

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar81.htm

patentmike
March 16, 2005, 10:42 AM
And I needed to get to the magic 200 posts.

Pointman1776
March 17, 2005, 01:26 AM
That is just TOO FUNNY!!! :what:

medmo
March 17, 2005, 03:30 AM
Now THAT was funny. Thanks

mcmoyer
March 17, 2005, 06:54 AM
And I needed to get to the magic 200 posts.

What's magic about 200?

glocker1911
March 17, 2005, 08:32 AM
I have a 45 GAP, it is a great round/pistol (G37). The only people who are SAPS are those who dump "hate" on the new caliber without even trying it. "OMG, it's trying to replace my 45acp, I hate it" seems to be the common knee jerk reaction. I love Glocks but the G21 is too big for me to use in comfort with carpal syndrome. But the smaller frame of the G37 "fits" perfect and the Gap is quite capable of holding it's own against the acp (note I didn't say better). :cuss:

Seraph
March 17, 2005, 08:46 AM
Maybe "200" is magic because you get to be a "Senior Member." Anyway, I thought the SAP gag was pretty damned funny.

patentmike
March 17, 2005, 07:18 PM
My mistake, it's 300 for Wildalaska's group buys.
Not that there aren't plenty of other people who want my business.

medmo
March 18, 2005, 02:21 AM
Geez... glocker1911 relax and take a deep breath. It was a funny parody. The 45 GAP really isn't that different from anything else already on the market. There hasn't been anything truly "revolutionary" for decades that has been introduced to the market. The whole idea was how something that is "slightly" different is promoted as "remarkably revolutionary" by gun writers in the main stream rags. Try it again and enjoy the humour.

stealthmode
March 18, 2005, 06:14 AM
that is hilarious :neener:

PCRCCW
March 18, 2005, 05:23 PM
Id have to agree..........ba ha ha! Very funny..........

Those who slam the little Gap or Sap for that matter, wont know its real future for years to come. Look at the 40S&W????????? You never know.

At first I was against it because Gaston has enough of everyones money...simply put. But Ive been enlightened since then.....well, maybe a little.

Shoot well.........

ElrodCod
March 18, 2005, 05:40 PM
I'm more inclined to think that it's more like the .41AE.......you never know!

glocker1911
March 18, 2005, 06:57 PM
Of course few people herew like the gap. I've noticed a that this forum is a little anti Glock in general. Just my observation, I've heard the same from others.

wally
March 18, 2005, 10:47 PM
Every time .45 GAP comes up I mention that until its in a gun the sized of the Kahr P40, or better yet PM40, all I can do is yawn.

I'll be looking for the new .45ACP Kahr P45 and Springfield "mini" 1911 in .45GAP to compare.

--wally.

ElrodCod
March 19, 2005, 09:32 AM
Yup, that was the original premise; a .45 cal. cartridge in a 9mm sized gun. So far the mini Springer 1911 comes the closest. All the rest make me sleepy as well.

shoot870p
March 19, 2005, 01:52 PM
nice humor. almost went with "good" but caught myself.

carpettbaggerr
March 19, 2005, 08:27 PM
Yup, that was the original premise; a .45 cal. cartridge in a 9mm sized gun. I'd say the premise is a .45 that can be sold in countries which ban "military" calibers. I'm sure this cartridge sells like hotcakes in those places.

BluesBear
March 20, 2005, 01:12 AM
I've noticed a that this forum is a little anti Glock in general. I dunno about that since we have several thousand members who actually own Glocks.
I have seen a lot of anti-1911 and anti-revolver comments as well.
It all depends on which threads you read.

Clean97GTI
March 20, 2005, 02:48 AM
to those who would berate the GAP cartridge, I have but one thing to say to you.

9mm is better.

Seriously, if you don't like it, don't buy it. It is here and it does compare favorably to the .45ACP. You can grump and grumble and rant and rave (shoot the brute some burma-shave) but it is the truth and helpful for folks who don't like or can't grip a gun chambered for ACP.

dsk
March 20, 2005, 03:07 AM
The .45ACP and .45GAP are for all intents and purposes the same cartridge ballistically. Remember that ammo manufacturers purposely download so-called "standard velocity" .45ACP (and 9mm as well) because of all the old shootin' irons out there. The old military spec for the 230gr ball round was 810-820fps. The last time I chronoed generic 230gr FMJ out of a 1911 I was lucky to get more than 800fps out the muzzle!

Too much of the modern defensive ammo is loaded excessively hot IMHO. That means 9mm+P+, .45ACP+P, and basically all .40 S&W and .357 SIG loadings. The new .45GAP follows in this regard, meaning the round is loaded super-hot since it only fits in new guns strong enough to handle it anyway. There's little risk from stuffing it in grandpa's old WW1 clunker. Frankly, I think it's ridiculous that there is so much emphasis on speed and power. Federal was one of the first to recognize this, and came out with their "Personal Protection" line of ammo. That stuff uses lighter bullet weights and is loaded less hot for better controllability (i.e. so you can actually fire fast repeat shots, instead of wasting time recovering from the recoil of your new Super-MegaDeath(TM) handgun rounds). Unfortunately most gunshop commandos I talk to laugh at that stuff.

BluesBear
March 20, 2005, 03:56 AM
The .45ACP and .45GAP are for all intents and purposes the same cartridge ballistically If you are talking about external and terminal ballistics... yes.
But of you are referring to internal ballistics then... not really.

It might, at first, seem to be simple a matter of semantics but it's not quite that simple.

Dropping a round of .45GAP into Grampa's old 20th Century GI 1911 and firing it will release 21st century +P pressures even if the bullet only achieves 19th century velocities.

Sort of like using magnum pressures to achieve standard velocities.
Just think of the .45 GAP as a .45ACP+P with .45ACP non +P performance.


Now I am neither for nor against the .45gap. In my opinion it is every bit as useful as the .50GI.
Even though I own and sometimes carry a .45acp more often that not you'll find me toting a cylinder full of .44 special. (And even then I'd prefer to be carrying a .41)

wally
March 20, 2005, 11:27 AM
I'd say the premise is a .45 that can be sold in countries which ban "military" calibers. I'm sure this cartridge sells like hotcakes in those places.

If I remember what I read correctly, Europe had the .45HP round for this purpose, which some have suggested Gaston basically pirated for the .45 GAP. Fact is the round never caught on with folks who couldn't buy .45ACP over there.

New & different is not better, better is better. If a gun in .45 GAP smaller/lighter than the .45ACP Kahr P45 comes out, then I'd see a reason for .45GAP, until this happens its IMHO just a marketing ploy. There is a market for oddball calibers and if you like to reload more than shoot, you can oder custom dies and "invent" your own cartridge.

--wally.

ElrodCod
March 20, 2005, 12:11 PM
I'd say the premise is a .45 that can be sold in countries which ban "military" calibers. I'm sure this cartridge sells like hotcakes in those places. Everything I've read since the GAP's inception has supported the fact that the original premise was to have a .45 caliber gun built on a 9mm platform. Aside from your post, I haven't seen anything in print that supports your position (opinion).

glocker1911
March 20, 2005, 06:32 PM
We'll have to wait and see where the GAP goes in other guns (like Springfields XD series) but in Glocks, it definately has a place. You can have 45acp performance in a smaller frame. I'll take my G37 over a G21 any day of the week. I've heard all of the "small hand" insults that are out there. I can hold, carry concealed, and shoot a G21 just fine (did for years). But my hands aren't what they used to be(start of carpal syndrome) and I for one appreciate the smaller grip of the G37 and don't feel like I give any performance up to the 45acp. Just stating MY opinion, not claiming any other reason for y choice. And for the record, I still love the 45acp. I haven't seen so much "hate" for a cartridge since the old days of the 9mm vs 45 wars. And most of the negative talk is coming from people who have never even held a 45gap pisol, let alone shot one. :banghead:

DT Guy
March 20, 2005, 08:27 PM
I shoot a small framed handgun better than a large one. If the GAP takes off, it could make a .45 caliber Browning HP or CZ 75 possible. THAT would be interesting.

Larry

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