(AK) five teens playing with airsofts in store arrested


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spacemanspiff
March 17, 2005, 12:15 PM
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/6278326p-6155672c.html

Pellet guns land teens in trouble
FRED MEYER: Five teens jailed after playing shooting game in store.
By TATABOLINE BRANT
Anchorage Daily News Published: March 17th, 2005
Last Modified: March 17th, 2005 at 03:12 AM

Five teenagers firing at each other with pellet guns inside the Muldoon Fred Meyer were arrested Tuesday night after security guards and police, who believed the weapons were real handguns, surrounded the store.

No one was injured in the episode, but several of the kids involved, their parents and police agreed later that the situation, which ended when police swept into the store with shotguns and handguns, "could have turned into something ugly real quick," as one police spokesman put it.

Police and parents said the boys' plastic weapons -- 6mm semi-automatic BB pellet guns -- looked like real pistols. They were so real in appearance, in fact, one boy's father said he had warned his son before the incident about the dangers of carrying one around.

Armed officers ultimately surrounded three of the boys in the DeBarr Road store's electronics section and ordered the kids to get on the floor. The other two boys tried to flee out a side door when armed officers confronted them and ordered them to freeze and drop their weapons.

Derik Dorgan, 17, said in an interview Wednesday that he had four to six guns pointed at him during one tense moment but said, "I was actually more scared of what my parents would think," His father, Charles Hubbard, said all five of the boys are good kids who generally stay out of trouble and get good grades.

"They know it was a stupid mistake," he said. "I'm just grateful the police were calm. I mean they want to go home at night too."

Another boy's parent, Lisa Culligan, agreed.

"After what just happened over at the Dimond Center, I'm surprised they didn't get shot," she said, referring to the gang-related shooting earlier this month at the South Anchorage mall, which left a 14-year-old dead and another teen injured. No arrests have been made in that incident.

Police spokesman Ron McGee said the Dimond Center shooting, which was followed by threats of retaliation, must have crossed the minds of officers as they sped to the Fred Meyer on Tuesday around 9 p.m.

"The officers don't know what the situation is," McGee said. "Is it connected to the Dimond mall shooting? Something else? We have no idea. It was reported as 'people with guns,' so of course it is very scary."

Private security guards at the store had called police after seeing the five boys show up in two vehicles armed with what they thought were bona fide handguns.

"The security personnel acted appropriately," McGee said. "They saw these guys out in the parking lot pointing guns at each other."

The teens went into the store and began firing at one another as they ran around the sporting goods, furniture and home sections.

Authorities had no way of knowing the teens were playing a friendly game of "air soft," which the boys would later explain entailed trying to hit each other with the pellets. Anyone hit had to take a "time out" in the store's electronics section.

Officers swept through the store, surrounding the three boys in the electronics section and the other two near the exit.

McGee said the kids were immediately responsive to the officers' commands.

"Thank goodness they didn't make no subtle mistakes," said Hubbard, the father. "The police did say the boys were polite."

The teens told police they were just "messing around" and hadn't thought about how the game might panic others, McGee and family members said.

All five boys were charged with reckless endangerment. The three juveniles were taken to McLaughlin Youth Center and later released to their parents.

Ryan Duel and Apollo L. Culligan, both 18, were jailed on $1,000 bail.

At their arraignment Wednesday, Duel and Culligan, both Bartlett High seniors, swallowed hard as the judge explained the maximum penalty for the Class A misdemeanor: up to 1 year in jail and a $10,000 fine.

Both teens were appointed attorneys. Hubbard pleaded with the court to remove a third-party custodian requirement so that the boys could return to school, but the judge said that wasn't immediately possible.

Hubbard said afterward that he hoped the court would show mercy on the boys, some of whom have hopes for college.

"Incidents like this close doors," he said. "I understand why the police would want to make an example out of them. (But) I would hope that the court system would see that they're good kids. It was a mistake more than anything else."

Hubbard said his son bought several of the pellet guns used Tuesday at a store in the Northway Mall called PacKnives. He questioned why the weapons were sold to a minor and said he wishes he had taken them away from his son when he first discovered them.

Kevin Rossignol, owner of PacKnives and also a Daily News employee, said that while some models of plastic pellet guns are authorized by manufacturers for ages 14 and older, his store does not sell the weapons to anyone under 18. People under 13 aren't allowed into the store at all without an adult, a sign on the door says.
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stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid kids.

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joeoim
March 17, 2005, 12:54 PM
[Derik Dorgan, 17, said in an interview Wednesday that he had four to six guns pointed at him during one tense moment but said, "I was actually more scared of what my parents would think,"]

What an idiot.

A little out of touch with reality.

Most 7 year olds understand the consequence of the business end of a gun.



[Hubbard said afterward that he hoped the court would show mercy on the boys, some of whom have hopes for college.]

The responding officers would be a better judge of this.

Joe

DelayedReaction
March 17, 2005, 01:02 PM
There's stupidity, and then there's stupidity. What did they think was going to happen when they started shooting each other with airguns in a public setting?

MikeIsaj
March 17, 2005, 01:11 PM
These guys can't see the inherent and obvious stupidity in going to a store and having a shoot out with air pistols? Please tell me none of them are licensed drivers.

Let's all hold harmless the parents who raised these morons. Let's not question their ability. The important thing here is that we don't hurt anyones feelings by being insensitive to the lazy, stupid irresponsible people who abdicate their responsibility to the community when they fail to use good judgment in setting limits on their children or teaching them individual responsibility. If only one of these parents had taught their child to have a spine and say no to doing something so stupid it is inherently dangerous, this incident would not have happened.

Thank God it didn't result in a shooting. Wouldn't you like to be the cop that shoots the "kid with the air pistol."

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

I feel better, how 'bout ou?

TheFederalistWeasel
March 17, 2005, 01:19 PM
Last months National Law Enforcement Association Journal had an article about the 11 year old in NY who brandished an Air Soft Colt .45 replica at two Township Police Officers then died in a hail of gunfire from those two cops.

Of course the town was all up in arms over the shooting of an “unarmed” kid who just had a toy, one resident said and I’ll quote as best as I can remember, but it was something like if a cop can’t tell the difference between a toy and a real gun our youth are in trouble.

Something to that effect

The kid was a young black male whose brother had just been sentenced in a gang related shooting.

Everytime I hear about something like this I remember that video I saw in the Academy of that Ohio State Trooper who shot and killed a black male on a traffic stop, at night in low light who jumped from his car, immediately reached around to his 3 or 4 o’ clock on his waist and drew an object and came around towards the Trooper in the motion one would associate with a person drawing a handgun.

The Trooper shot and killed him, one of the rounds from the Troopers gun entered the back window of the car the male was driving and struck his 9 year old daughter in the head killing her instantly.

The man had his wife, daughter and newborn son in the car. Both he and the young girl were pronounced dead at the scene.

Guess what the man had drawn from his waist and was in the process of pointing at the Trooper?

A Friggin Cell Phone!

Shooting was ruled justified.



:fire:

El Tejon
March 17, 2005, 01:20 PM
Stupid kids AND stupid coppers. Way too many Podunk cops sit up at night and watch "Cops". :rolleyes:

"Oh, boy, I can't wait to take 'em down, hard and fast, just like they do in the big city." :scrutiny:

Good grief, can't Barney and Deputy Soaring Eagle just chew them out and tell their parents. It's Muldoon, Alaska!!! :banghead:

When I was a kid, I ran into a friend at an Ayrway (pre-Target for you youngsters). We grabbed toy machine guns out of the toy big and stalked each other in women's clothing.

The store clerk yelled at us and brought it to my father's attention. I got a large backhand across the head (done hit upside the haid in Hoosierese) and a long lecture on the importance of behaving/controlling myself in public. And this was in the big city (circa 1978). No SRT or SWAT team made an appearance. :rolleyes:

spacemanspiff
March 17, 2005, 01:22 PM
i only saw that they gave the ages of three of the idiots: 2 18 yr olds and 1 17 yr old.

at age 18, i think the idiot should be taking full responsibility, the parent shouldnt be blamed.

Hellbore
March 17, 2005, 01:57 PM
I agree... 18 years old? Gimme a break. Some 18 year olds are out there fighting and dying for our country, and these asshats are running around playing cowboys and indians with toy guns.

This is what I hate about airsoft. I have always believed that airsoft guns should be treated with the same respect and caution as real guns. You wouldn't go around brandishing a real gun in public, would you? Airsoft guns have no place outside the airsoft field or the forest or some place that makes SENSE to play. These young men deserve whatever punishment they get.

Please nobody criticize the police officers... They did their job well and thank God they were very cautious and didn't shoot anyone. I think they went above and beyond the call of duty, considering that the kids appeared to be armed with real weapons. I wouldn't have blamed them if they had fired on these young men, for example if one of the young men pointed the airsoft gun at an officer by accident. It would have been terrible but it wouldn't have been the officer's fault. We all should be very thankful things turned out the way they did.

critter
March 17, 2005, 02:20 PM
Add up the total IQ's of those five boys and you could count the total on your THUMBS and have spares left over!!!! They should be VERY happy to still be breathing!

rritter
March 17, 2005, 02:41 PM
So, El Tejon, why did you and your buddy put on the women's clothing? :evil:

El Tejon
March 17, 2005, 02:51 PM
rritter, shhhh! :D

I feel pretty, oh, so pretty. Durn Texicans! :neener:

HankB
March 17, 2005, 03:13 PM
17 and 18 year olds who think nothing of behaving like rambunctious, unsupervised 5 year olds in a retail store? Nice upbringing there.

I could see charges of creating a disturbance, trespassing, littering (they scattered plastic BBs in a private store) etc. Maybe some community service would be appropriate - or working 20 hours a week at no pay for a while policing up the store's parking lot, cleaning the store's bathrooms, mopping floors, etc.

But "Reckless Endangerment" . . . I hope they can produce an actual person who was endangered. (I suppose an Airsoft BB in the eye would be a bad thing . . . but since I'm not a lawyer, I'd have a hard time convicting them of "endangerment" without a bona-fide victim.)

ProactiveReactionary
March 17, 2005, 03:18 PM
anyone remember the the video awhile back of the teens shooting people on the street from a moving car with a painball gun?

some teenagers think things like this is simply hilarious. i think they watched jackass too many times and didnt learn "there's a time and a place for everything".

maybe if they did this in the forest or one of their own backyards i wouldnt care but how do you as a young adult not know to not have a shoot out even with toy guns in a store??? if they dont even know that much then maybe they should be removed from society from awhile. acting up is one thing, this is far beyond a little acting up, this is sheer retardedness.

"you're going to wind up living on a steady diet of government cheese living in a van down by the river!"

ScorpioVI
March 17, 2005, 05:28 PM
What a bunch of dumbasses!!!

Cops should've opened fire, throw some chlorine into the gene pool.

mbs357
March 17, 2005, 06:01 PM
This (and two posts above, especially) is why I absolutely hate being a teenager these days.
My peers are generally absolute idiots.
This reminds me of another thing, not as bad, but it proves stupidity.
Go to Ebaum's World and somewhere you'll find a video...described as the most awesome video ever, or some such.
In it you'll find footage of a man's rear, pooping in a toilet...
This man then proceeds through several dorms, rubbing his feces on sleeping people.

Two slots down, a video of a Glock 18 full auto, "It's a video of a gun...I guess it's ok if you're crazy enough to like guns."

scout26
March 17, 2005, 07:24 PM
I sure am glad that no one on this thread did anything dumb when they were teenagers..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Climbs into flame proof suit. :p :p

Yes, what they did was dumb. It's what teenagers do....dumb stuff. To me it's just sad that teenagers being teenagers in the world today causes such an (over)reaction.

Wow, I wonder what the people/cops would have thought about me and about twenty other kids having BB gun wars in the tree nursery, cow pastures and farm fields near where I grew up....... :eek: :eek:

MikeIsaj
March 17, 2005, 08:07 PM
You had your BB wars in a field, not a store. We had bottle rocket battles, outside! It was stupid kid stuff but it wasn't in a store! I could show you how to make a cannon with pringles cans, lighter fluid and a tennis ball. But we never took them to a department store and shot them! That's a big difference.

What they did was way beyond simple dumb. It was some special kind of stupid, and dangerous. Did you read the whole article, especially the part about a real shoot-em-up by a gang at a nearby mall recently? That's an important consideration.

You know when you get older you are supposed to grow up. When you grow up you assume the role of adult. One of the things you do is provide some regulation of adolescent behavior by monitoring your kids and setting limits. They really don't need anyone making excuses for their stupidity, and just because I may have been stupid doesn't mean I'm going to stand aside when my kids do the same things. I am going to do what my father did and set a limit and example.

spacemanspiff
March 17, 2005, 08:25 PM
Wow, I wonder what the people/cops would have thought about me and about twenty other kids having BB gun wars in the tree nursery, cow pastures and farm fields near where I grew up
i know what you are saying. most bb rifles do look quite a bit like 22 lr rifles.

however, how many times do you recall when you were a young 'un of police having shootouts with 14 yr old gangbangers? or of gang wars that had casualties on either side of young criminals?

what you are doing is comparing apples to broccoli. the fact of the matter is, all across this country, law enforcement is having to deal with hardened criminals at much younger ages. in fact, much younger than the three arrested in the above incident. not to mention, as the article stated, police up here are already on edge because of the 14 yr old that was shot (and subsequently died) at a local shopping mall, that has raised threats from the gang community, each side claiming revenge.
witnesses to that particular shooting are already leaving the state because they dont want to put their lives at risk.

now, put a little twist on this. say you're in fred meyer, and you see five dwarf teenagers running by, three with this (http://www.protectiondepot.com/Walther_p99t.asp) in their hands. what do you do?

[a free wedgie will be given to the person who gives the Reno 911 answer] :D

ScorpioVI
March 17, 2005, 08:32 PM
Wow, I wonder what the people/cops would have thought about me and about twenty other kids having BB gun wars in the tree nursery, cow pastures and farm fields near where I grew up.......




We did that too. During high school, we'd have paintball games in orchards, and farms and creeks. You know what the difference was? We did it in remote places where people couldn't stumble onto us. We'd even go as far as putting on civvies and transporting our paintball guns in guitar cases, and only when we get to the field did we change into BDUs and bust out the guns.

In about 4 years of doing this with my friends, you know how many times the cops got called on us? NONE. We'd find the occassional bum sleeping on a discarded mattress, or some local tweakers having a toke, but not once did we ever have cops called on us.

This is the post-Columbine world. Kids and guns (toys or not) are not acceptable any longer. You can cry, "what a sad world we've put ourselves into" all you want, but facts are facts. We've got a proliferation of cell phones, an abundance of "scared-crapless-of-terrorists" soccer moms who won't hesitate to use them, and plenty of Glock-toting LEOs whose level of firearms training wouldn't get them into my action pistol events.

So go ahead and let yourself and your kids loose at the local WalMart with airsoft guns.

RoyG
March 17, 2005, 08:42 PM
ID-10Ts

ZeroX
March 17, 2005, 08:47 PM
My generation makes me feel more and more guilty about being part of it every day.

Standing Wolf
March 17, 2005, 09:20 PM
Never show up for a gun fight with a toy gun. Actually, it's not a bad idea to bring along a real brain, too.

Wildalaska
March 17, 2005, 11:24 PM
Just what i need..pop a round in some jerk off kid becasue hes running around the store waving a gun when I am trying to shop.

OK..here it is...each of these kids should be tried as adults and if convicted, sentenced to real time.

WildjerkoffanticslikethisgetpeoplekilledAlaska

carebear
March 17, 2005, 11:42 PM
The ladies were talking about this at work, one said they were lucky the cops didn't shoot 'em and another said she was surprised another shopper didn't.

Go ladies!

Sir Aardvark
March 17, 2005, 11:42 PM
What a buncha idiot kids!. Maybe the ACLU will defend them in court?.. HA HA !!

mbs357
March 17, 2005, 11:43 PM
Here I am, a teenage, and have never done anything remotely near this stupidly...
But maybe I'm just weird. =(

RyanM
March 18, 2005, 12:31 AM
This (and two posts above, especially) is why I absolutely hate being a teenager these days.
My peers are generally absolute idiots.

Seconded. :(

At least I turn 20 in another 8 months and 13 days.

On a sidenote, I've shot my airsoft 1911 at junk in my backyard a bunch (about 3,000 shots worth overall), with houses 50 feet in any given direction, and never had a problem with neighbors or cops. No orange junk on it or anything, too.

Of course, the cord and CO2 regulator hanging off the bottom, the teeny white things visibly flying towards the target, the lack of flying brass, and the extremely quiet report might have clued everyone in, but since when are people that smart?

mbs357
March 18, 2005, 12:56 AM
Yea, 972 days for me to turn 21, about three years. >_<
I wish I had an airsoft for plinking and ambushing the family.

scout26
March 18, 2005, 07:19 PM
Mikeisaj,

We used firecrackers in our pringles cannons after a flamming tennis ball started a "small fire".

I was not condoning their behavior, just commenting on the sad reality that there are 14 year old gang-bangers out there killing people.

I remember me and my friends spending several hours cleaning up the mess we made after a really good food fight in a Mickey D's. No cops, just the manager coming out with the mops, brooms and towels after we were done throwing food. He didn't say much more then "Clean it up."

Spiff:
now, put a little twist on this. say you're in fred meyer, and you see five dwarf teenagers running by, three with this in their hands. what do you do?

Run away like a girly man, there's no CCW or any carry for that matter in Illinois. :neener: :neener: :neener:

Do you know for a fact they were dwarfs ??

I'll see your wedgie and raise you a swirly. ;)

Beren
March 18, 2005, 07:26 PM
At least in Alaska, the kids are smart enough to drop the Airsofts when armed cops so order.

In California or SE PA, they'd probably have pointed their Airsoft replicas AT the cops...with tragic consequences.

Cosmoline
March 18, 2005, 10:07 PM
Good grief, can't Barney and Deputy Soaring Eagle just chew them out and tell their parents. It's Muldoon, Alaska!!!

I have to wonder if you've been to the Muldoon neighborhood recently :D LOL It's not exactly what you imagine when you think of the great land.

Let me put it this way. When I'm in Muldoon or Mt. View, I keep my revolver closer and bring the carbine up into the front seat when possible.

carebear
March 18, 2005, 11:14 PM
It ain't THAT bad country mouse. :evil:

Just bring the OTHER pistol up front. Leave the carbine for Spenard. ;)

Wildalaska
March 19, 2005, 12:20 AM
Hell these country boys got no idea about cities...me, I put the Seecamp away when I leavc the city and toss the 44 on the seat

WildwimpycriminalshereAlaska

Akusp
March 19, 2005, 01:15 AM
This incident served as a reminder to me so I had a long talk with my 14 year old today. He loves airsoft but even he acknowledged the stupidity involved here. He knows that I and many other Alaskans carry concealed weapons in addition to the police.

Gonna see anyone at the range this weekend??

Randy

Wildalaska
March 19, 2005, 01:31 AM
Gonna make a quick morning run before Kabuki show at 2

WildafewroundsdownrangeAlaska

Akusp
March 19, 2005, 01:37 AM
Kabuki Show?? What the.... I'm bringing my No5 JC.

Randy

zahc
March 19, 2005, 03:18 AM
if a cop can’t tell the difference between a toy and a real gun our youth are in trouble.

The problem is some airsoft guns look exactly like real guns. EXACTLY. It's quite scary sometimes.

thorn726
March 19, 2005, 04:24 AM
well these kids are RETARDS, playing with those out in public, the black ones look EXaclty like real guns, more just the fact they are plaiyng with guns of any sort besides water in a Mall? stupid.

ANYWAY=
FEd weasels post makes me think of something=
WHY THE HECK dont cops, with all their gear, have wireless access to their loudspeaker so in that situation where baby and father are KILLED by jumpy cop,
he could have first yelled "DROP IT" or something before shooting.????

i tihnk they jsut dont want to bother figuring out ways not to kill people they stop, they want us to be in total fear instead.
what happened to Serve and Protect? (oh, it doesnt say who does it? heheh.)

Hammerhead
March 20, 2005, 10:59 PM
ANYWAY=
FEd weasels post makes me think of something=
WHY THE HECK dont cops, with all their gear, have wireless access to their loudspeaker so in that situation where baby and father are KILLED by jumpy cop,
he could have first yelled "DROP IT" or something before shooting.????

i tihnk they jsut dont want to bother figuring out ways not to kill people they stop, they want us to be in total fear instead.
what happened to Serve and Protect? (oh, it doesnt say who does it? heheh.)

While this might help in cases of mistaken identity, or foolish kids playing stupid games, do you really think that it is a good idea to warn armed men BEFORE you get into position? Maybe the police could call out, "OK, start taking hostages, we aren't in position yet, but we will be soon!" It seems as if you are advocating long range warnings, before the police have "the drop" on suspects.

Look, I hate the idea of innocent people being killed just as much as you, but I don't think that blaming cops for stupid citizen mistakes is right. Or that handicapping cops in an armed situation is a reasonable reaction.

Just as there is suicide by cop, there is also "evolution in action by cop". If you try to convice an armed man that you are trying to kill him, and you succeed, it is on you!

Or did I misunderstand your post?

Regards,
Hammerhead

MICHAEL T
March 21, 2005, 12:42 AM
Didn't security of cops notice it was a quiet gun fight. Might have beem a clue as to what was going on.

TheFederalistWeasel
March 21, 2005, 08:34 AM
Man....

There is a lot of folks here who have a very unrealistic understanding about LE or, in short just have no clue.

:scrutiny:

Now I'm responsible for everyones stupidity as well?

Give me a break!

carebear
March 21, 2005, 10:57 AM
Now I'm responsible for everyones stupidity as well?

Yup, and mowing my lawn as well, check that employment contract small print.

Ya got another month or so, then hop to it. :evil:

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