HOW MANY USES DOES A 30-30 have


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airbornekyle1
March 18, 2005, 09:39 PM
I want to hunt with it mainly but what animals is it good for? How powerfull actually is the round? What other uses does it have?

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Ohen Cepel
March 18, 2005, 09:54 PM
It's the 3rd most popular round in American right now (via ammo sales numbers).

Great deer round, also enough gun for most smaller stuff of course. Fun enough to shoot since it's not going to beat you up much.

Not a varmit gun though. Also, makes for a pretty good truck gun in that it's rather PC looking (compared to an SKS let's say).

It's not the state of the art fancy cartridge of the day. However, it's a capable cartridge when understood and used correctly. ie: deer at under 200m or so.

mustanger98
March 18, 2005, 10:53 PM
Good deer round, but no telling how many black bear, cougars, coyotes, foxes, and dogs (wild or stray) and a lot of other things have been killed with it over time. Believe it or not, it's a pretty versatile rifle/cartridge considering how short the list of available loadings is. I've heard some opinions that while .30-30 is considered a little light for elk, there's probably been a bunch of 'em killed from short range with it using 170grSPs. I haven't tried it, but hey, hit 'em in the vitals and they're going down, even if you do have to track 'em a short ways. Within reasonable range 170grainers'll turn a deer's heart and lungs to mush. (I know Elmer Keith didn't like .30caliber anything for elk, but back then, all they had was pretty much equivalent to what we call "cowboy load" now and that's not enough power for much of anything.)

FWIW, my club has a lead match coming up April 3rd. I'm planning to shoot my Win.'94 .30-30 in it (100yds on paper) with Ultramax's 165gr LFPs. (Think: "cowboy load" like I just mentioned.) They do as well accuracywise as the 150gr hunting loads I stoke it with for deer. I have a Lyman #2 tang sight on mine, which for match use is good because I'll be shooting against Sharps buffalo rifles. Having shot mine on paper, claybirds, and steel plate at 100yds, I know it'll do it. :D

I hope this helps give a wider picture of what a .30-30's good for.

Larry Ashcraft
March 18, 2005, 10:58 PM
Anything from rabbits to elk, depending on the rifleman.

How many forums did you post this question in anyway? :scrutiny:

Preacherman
March 18, 2005, 11:41 PM
One of the most versatile and useful cartridges on the market today, and much under-rated by those who should know better. Inside 150-175 yards, it's probably the premier deer-getter in the woods. Also good for anything up to 300-400 pounds at similar ranges. Use the heavier bullets for heavier game.

jefnvk
March 18, 2005, 11:43 PM
It's the 3rd most popular round in American right now (via ammo sales numbers).

Not to steal the thread, but what are the first two? I'd imagine .30-06 and either .308 or .270.

LeonCarr
March 19, 2005, 12:23 AM
Also does a good job for self-defense or home defense with 125 grain HPs. I saw a picture of a guy that got shot with .30-30 in an autopsy book once. The X-Ray showed what looked like a lead snowstorm in his chest.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Corey ACP
March 19, 2005, 12:33 AM
I have used my Winchester 30-30 on everything from groundsquirrels and jackrabbits to several Utah Mule deer and one elk. 110 gr. Speer varmenter for the small stuff and 170 gr jacketed soft point, (flat nose) for the bigger stuff. Not ideal in either application, but when you're a kid, (1976) and it's all you have, It'll get the job done. Fun and cheap to shoot, no gun safe should be without one

Chipperman
March 19, 2005, 10:06 AM
How much of a squirrel of rabbit is left afterward? :scrutiny:

mustanger98
March 19, 2005, 10:09 AM
How much of a squirrel of rabbit is left afterward?

Depends on where you hit 'em. Head shots with 110grainers wouldn't damage meat. Hit 'em anywhere else and you won't have much meat.

EVIL5LITER
March 19, 2005, 11:15 AM
In my opinion a .30-30 is a must own rifle, period. It's got to be one of the most versatile rifles ever made, and if a person had to chose one rifle to use for the rest of his life (the horror!), I would not feel undergunned in any situation with a lever action.

Dr.Rob
March 19, 2005, 11:29 AM
I know you CAN kill an antelope with one.

I always loaded it 'heavy' with 170 gr bullets for hunting.

Vern Humphrey
March 19, 2005, 11:35 AM
I used to carry a .30-30 in the saddle boot back on the ranch, and killed a lot of deer, wild dogs, hogs, and so on. Nowadays, I still carry one occasionally -- often with cast bullet loads (160 grain Lee Roundnose, lubed with Liquid Alox and a "starting load" of IMR 3031.) This works well on coyotes, armadillos, dogs, and has taken an occasional squirrel or two.

Larry Ashcraft
March 19, 2005, 11:38 AM
When my grandad bought a new Win. Model 70 in .270 back in the 40's, it was considered the "big gun" in elk camp. Everybody else used 30-30's.

Redneck Revolver
March 19, 2005, 12:03 PM
the 30-30 has about as many uses as duct tape.

Flatfender
March 19, 2005, 12:58 PM
Tactical!

http://www.gabesuarez.com/leveraction.html

Trumpet
March 19, 2005, 02:59 PM
the 30-30 has about as many uses as duct tape.


+1

That's just perfect.


Rich

RoyG
March 19, 2005, 05:18 PM
I have a Marlin 336 I bought in '77. First gun I bought myself. Wouldn't get rid of it for nothing. One like it will be given to my son once he turns 18.

Ohen Cepel
March 19, 2005, 05:24 PM
Jef,
Can't find the article now. Was in a new gun mag. Think the 30-06 and .223 beat the 30-30. 270 was either 3rd or 4th. Wouldn't swear to those numbers now though, I'm sure the 30-30 was 3rd though.

carpettbaggerr
March 19, 2005, 07:33 PM
"It can core a apple" :)

shoot870p
March 19, 2005, 07:58 PM
to me it is a very good truck gun and certainly a capable deer rifle for fairly close shots. everyone should have one at some time or another.

Malamute
March 20, 2005, 12:20 PM
I used some of the 110 gr JHP bullets, they are very destructive on small game. 100 to 120 gr cast bullets at about 1100 to 1200 fps work well, and dont ruin meat. The JHP bullets at that velocity may be OK, I only used them at about 2600 or so fps.

I've shot rabbits with regular 170 gr loads, and they are a bit strenuous on the meat, but not as bad as the 110 gr loads at 2600 fps.

30-30's have been used quite a bit by whites and natives in Canada and Alaska over the last 100 years for general meat guns on moose and down. I think they are a bit light for moose, or elk, but they will do the job if the shot is fairly close and put in the right spot.

Early loads were like cowboy loads? Cowboy loads are usually lead bullets at reduced velocity. The early 30WCF (30-30) loads were 160 to 165 gr jacketed soft point bullets at about 1970 fps velocity. They were used on just about everything from deer up through moose and elk, and seemd to perform about the same as todays loads from all accounts. The modest velocity is somewhat forgiving to the bullets, not tending to fragment them like higher velocity tends to, so they would expand and penetrate decently. This limits range some, but within 200 yards they are not hard to hit with if the shooter is up to it. Some have used them at longer range, but velocity falls off and killing power drops beyond that point. I've plinked with 30-30's out to 300 yards or so, they aren't too hard to whack rocks with at that range, particularly if the gun is sighted a couple inches high at 100 yards and a streamlined (for 30-30) bullet is used. Speer bullets show about 30% flatter trajectory than Hornady bullets of the same weight (170 gr). The Hornady's tend to shoot better groups in my favorite Wincheser tho.

A 30-30 is a decent general purpose utility gun, but I usually hunt with heavier rounds, as this is good grizzly country.

I keep a Winchester carbine in the truck all the time. Good for road hit deer or antelope, etc, and I feel it's a good defense gun. 7 rounds in the magazine, and a belt of cartridges handy (and maybe a few more rounds behind the seat)will take care of about anything besides a full fledged invasion of Canadians.

mustanger98
March 20, 2005, 12:34 PM
Early loads were like cowboy loads? Cowboy loads are usually lead bullets at reduced velocity. The early 30WCF (30-30) loads were 160 to 165 gr jacketed soft point bullets at about 1970 fps velocity.

The original .30-30 loadings were cast lead, but they found that with the new smokeless powders available at that time and increased speeds, they had serious problems with leading as well as accuracy. That's why they went to jacketed bullets. Early handloading, from what I've heard, would've been most commonly done with cast lead bullets and black powder. Like I said, Elmer Keith said he didn't like .30WCF for his area and intended game. I never said it wouldn't take down an elk with today's heavier loadings. In fact, at short range, I wouldn't be past shooting an elk with mine and 170grainers.

I see you're thinking Canada. Available ammo may have been different between their and the US at back then too. I was watching American Rifleman TV last night- they said the RCMP was using 1886 Winchesters (I think they said .50-95) up into the 1920s. I don't doubt so many used .30-30's though.

Editted to add: I wrote that last paragraph before seeing your location as Wyoming.

Roadkill
March 20, 2005, 12:56 PM
Just got in from hog hunting, no luck but I dragged a Marlin 336 30-30 under, over, around, and through some of the worst pine deadfalls I've ever been in, plus up and down bluffs and briar patches so thick I nearly had to crawl. It is an excellent brush gun.

rk

Malamute
March 20, 2005, 03:29 PM
This is the first I've heard of the 30WCF having been factory loaded with a cast lead bullet as it's original load. All information I've seen is that it has always been factory loaded with the JSP bullet from the begining. Where did you hear or read the it was originally a lead load? Not meaning to sound contentious, just curious. Cartridges Of The World only mentiones the 160 gr JSP load as the original load. The 1894 gun was available in 32-40 and 38-55 cal about a year before the 30WCF (30-30) because of problems with barrel steel with the new smokeless loads, but no mention of lead bullets. The 30-40 Krag (and 303 British) was being loaded for a few years before the 30-30, and it was always a jacketed load also as I recall, the 30-30 wasn't the ground breaking cartridge in that respect.

As I recall, the NWMP (later to become the RCMP) used the 1876 model Winchester carbine, with the early type long wood forend like a military musket, in 45-75 cal. Madis in "The Winchester Book" doesn't state how loing they used them in active service that I could find in looking a minute ago. Could well be into the 20's. They later used the model 70 in 308 cal with some modifications.

buzz meeks
March 20, 2005, 05:13 PM
As others have said, the 30-30 can do anything you need a rifle cartridge to do. Within its range, it is a fully capable hunting round. And a skilled rifleman armed with a 30-30 lever gun could handle any realistic personal defense scenario. In short, the 30-30 in a lever gun is a great and handy general purpose rifle. Maybe that is the very reason the 30-30 is demeaned by some. Its general utility is lost on newer generations of shooters who can choose from and afford a variety of specialized weapons.

Vern Humphrey
March 20, 2005, 05:24 PM
A couple of years ago, I was in Alasksa. We were on a tour, and our driver was a real sourdough -- he had come in the early '60s and run a 150-mile trapline by dogsled.

He said the .30-30 was perfectly adequate for bear, "But you want to break the shoulder. Break the shoulder and you got him."

13.45
March 20, 2005, 05:27 PM
lots! it'll do (and has done) for any animal on the continent if the shooter does his job ;)

Drill Sergeant
March 20, 2005, 08:15 PM
It's much better than most want to believe. In the world of the Magnum & big bores, it'll hold its own - with a competent rifleman. Always with a competent rifleman. :)

mustanger98
March 20, 2005, 10:05 PM
Well, I know what I read, but I didn't write it down not knowing a few years later I'd be posting on this board about now. I think it was in American Rifleman, or it might have been somewhere else. This is the problem with "collecting data".

Regarding the NWMP/RCMP, I was meaning the 1876 Winchester. They named three or four calibers on that show. I think you're right about .45-75.

Actually, as I recall, the 94 was available in .30WCF, .32WCF (.32Special), .38-55, and something else in the first ten years of production.

As for .303British, I've heard conflicting statements regarding original loadings. I've heard the old .303 Lee Metford used a 220gr cast lead over black powder and that was about the same time as they old straight-pull Lee Navy 6mm which was also cast lead and black powder.

Malamute
March 20, 2005, 11:36 PM
I think you may be right about the 303 using a lead bullet. I vaguely recall something about a hardened lead bullet.

I just looked the 303 up in Cartridges of The World, it says the original load was a 215 gr round nosed cupro-nickel jacketed woth a compressed black powder charge.

Where did the hardened lead bullet come in? Taylor talked about a nitro load for the 450 black powder express, maybe that was it? Sad to get old, ain't it?

25-35 was the other caliber the 1894 was available in. I think 32 win Spl was the last one added to the lineup.

Dave Markowitz
March 21, 2005, 08:04 AM
they old straight-pull Lee Navy 6mm which was also cast lead and black powder.

The 6mm Navy was never a black powder cartridge. BP would've fouled the bore into uselessness in a magazine or two. It used smokeless and jacketed bullets in all loads, and was introduced in 1895. It used a 112 grain bullet with a MV of 2560.

mustanger98
March 21, 2005, 12:22 PM
The 6mm Navy was never a black powder cartridge. BP would've fouled the bore into uselessness in a magazine or two. It used smokeless and jacketed bullets in all loads, and was introduced in 1895. It used a 112 grain bullet with a MV of 2560.

That's another case of "that's not what I read". And unlike one of my earlier posts here, I distinctly remember this one being in American Rifleman, but again, it was several years ago. They said the 6mm Lee Navy was a BIG problem because of the blackpowder fouling. It did foul the bore to uselessness very fast. To make matters worse, the Marine Corps at that time only issued the pull cord type cleaning kit which they couldn't get through a clogged bore. Now, to me, that sounds pretty dumb not to issue a cleaning rod. As for date of issue, I understood them to say it was some time between 1885 and 1890 in limited numbers and wasn't used for very long.

Hobie
September 21, 2007, 09:23 AM
There are a lot of old wive's tales out there...

The Win. 1894 was chambered for, in order, .32-40 & .38-55, .30-30 & .25-35, .32 Winchester Special. Original bullets for the last three were all jacketed because that was the big marketing thing. AFTER release, there were many factory loads which included some "gallery" lead bullet loads. See John Kort on this, he's writing a book.

The Winchester 1876 SRC was used, in .45-75 chambering, by various organizations in Canada such as the Northwest Mounted Police from at least as early as 1878 to WWI.

Good to see you here Bill. Hope all is well.

The caption of this photo says the guns were used until 1914 that was the beginning of WWI for the British Commonwealth nations.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/TheRealHobie/Firearms/Winchester1876/nwmp02.jpg

JWarren
September 21, 2007, 12:02 PM
My grandfather always said that more deer have been killed with a 30-30 than any other caliber. He was probably right.


Neither of us has ever owned one-- but a LOT do.


-- John

ozwyn
September 21, 2007, 12:09 PM
IIRC the .30-.30 did time as a rifle caliber of the US army in WWI.

May not always be the perfect round, but it'll do for almost any need if the shooter is good.

Vern Humphrey
September 21, 2007, 12:15 PM
IIRC the .30-.30 did time as a rifle caliber of the US army in WWI.
A small number of .30-30s were purchased for guards in the Pacific Northwest, but it was never used in quantity, nor in combat.

GunTech
September 21, 2007, 12:15 PM
30-30 ranks anywhere from first to fifth in sales depending on what data you use and how you define you list.

In terms of rifle ammunition, 22 lr is far and away the most popular. 30-30, 30-06, 308, 223, 270 all fall into the top 10. Sales of 30-30 have been declining for the last 25 years, although it remains very popular. This is probably connected to the decline in sales of lever action rifles.

When I started hunting many years ago, the 30-30 lever gun was a fairly common sight in the gun shop and in the field. In the last few years, I've seen fewer and fewer in the gun shop, and none out hunting. Most people I know who have a 30-30 lever gun inherited it from an uncle, father or grandfather.

There's no question that the dominant hunting rifle is now the scopes turnbolt.

JimmerJammerMrK
September 21, 2007, 12:27 PM
Not to steal the thread, but what are the first two? I'd imagine .30-06 and either .308 or .270.
I'd bet against you and go with .22lr as the most popular.

EDIT: Oops, GunTech beat me to it.

mustanger98
September 21, 2007, 01:29 PM
I grew up with the whole .30-30 levergun idea. When I got grown and found one I liked, I bought it... used. This is the one I talk about... made in 1971, which I fitted with a Lyman #2 tang sight. This rifle may or may not be a common sight in your area. Being that I'm 33 years old and use a .30-30 levergun, it seems I may be an oddity. On the other hand, another guy I was talking with recently... I think he's younger than me... said while he hunts with scoped crankbolts over bean fields, he also has a .30-30 levergun he's hunted with. I don't know whether he bought his or inherited it.

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