[duck hunt]

FWIW, this refers to a case that was discussed here a few months ago. A drunk guy was shooting up in the air outside of a bar and an officer responding to the call drove into a 30-foot-deep pond and died. My suggestion that the man doing the shooting was responsible for the officer's death was considered "misleading and inflammatory."

Apparently I'm not alone in my belief:

Murder Charges Brought In Officer's Death (http://www.wwbt.com/frontpage/MGB3RQJC6DD.html)

[DeltaElite]

Hmmmmmmm, seems to be an odd legal situation, but the guy deserves what he gets for his actions.

[griz]

A tragedy for sure, but I’ve got to disagree with the premise and I’ll tell you why.

A couple of years ago in Virginia a rescue helicopter crashed while trying to land and pick up the severely injured victim of a car crash. Using the same logic the driver would be guilty of murder too.
I’m not defending the bozo who fired into the air, I’m just saying that while he appears to be guilty of something along the line of discharging a firearm inside city limits, he didn’t murder the officer.

[El Tejon]

Hmmm, "fireman's rule"? How foreseeable is that? Sounds like one for the Ol' Virginny Court of Appeals however the motion to dismiss comes out.

[Greg L]

It's not the first time. Here in Cincinnati (Covington, Ky actually) a few years ago, a goblin was being chased by a cop (on foot) across a bridge over the Ohio River. Said goblin jumped from the roadway to the pedestrian walkway to continue his E&E. The officer tried to do the same but apparently forgot about the gap between the road and the walk and fell in between them into the river and drowned. Eventually the goblin was caught and charged with murder (later reduced but I don't remember to what) by the DA's who were out for blood (a couple of weeks prior there were two Cincinnati police officers murdered where the goblin killed himself a few minutes later).

Lots of divided people over this one too.

Greg

[KMKeller]

It sets a very dangerous precedent if it goes through. For instance, let's say you drive by an officer in his speed trap doing 5 over the speed limit, the officer fishtails out of his hidey hole, loses control of his car veering into oncoming traffic and is killed in a head on collision taking a family of three with him. By the same logic you apply here, you are responsible for multiple counts of murder for the officer who was only pursuing a criminal and also for the persons he killed when he lost control of his car. The logic was flawed in the first place and that hasn't changed.

[Desertdog]

In the PRK if a person dies during the commission of a felony then all who who participated in the crime can be charged with murder.

I would think think that there may be a lesser charge of manslaughter in this case depending on if firing the gun was a felony or misdemeanor.

There was one in the news yesterday here, where a police officer was chasing a fugative and cut his ankle during the chase.

The next day a blood clot from the wound went to the officer's heart or lung and he died.

I have not heard if the fugative will be charged with anything or not. Under our laws there is a possibility of it.

[Mike Irwin]

Sounds like a REAL stretch to me.

Reckless endangerment and felony manslaughter is how I read it.

But then again, I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.

[Blackhawk]

Seems like the old Napoleonic Code is the source of this type thinking.

Under it, AFAIK, if you're involved in an accident, etc., and somebody else is hurt or killed, you're culpable because if you weren't there, it wouldn't have happened.

[CZ-75]

Henrico Policeman Andre Booker was responding to that alleged incident when he somehow backed his car into a retention pond and drowned.


Give me a damned break!

Officer Bubba has brain fart and drowns, and someone else is guilty??????????????????????

McDonald's is also responsible for making kids fat, then?

Perhaps, had officer Bubba down in Cookesville had a ricochet shooting the family dog and taken some 00 buck and died, they could've booked them for murder rather than losing a wallet. :rolleyes:

What a stretch. :barf:

[Russ]

I don't know that discharging a firearm in city limits is a felony. In the PRK I'm sure it is. I think you need to have intent on the part of the guy who fired his gun to "murder" or even hurt anyone. That is probably lacking in this case. Too bad the LEO lacked driving skills but I don't think the idiot who fired his gun into the air is to blame for that. That's a big stretch.

[Viking6]

This is a sad situation only made worse by charging the drunk garbage heap with murder. I'm not a lawyer but I can see a good defense lawyer really opening wounds for the family as he describes the nature of the accident and other aspects of the officer's past, etc. Justice is not served by charging people with the wrong crime, e.g. RICO charges against the anti-abortionists. Charge them for what they did under the law.

[TheeBadOne]

It sets a very dangerous precedent if it goes through. For instance, let's say you drive by an officer in his speed trap doing 5 over the speed limit,
Come on people, it's much simpler than that. The Officer was responding to a man firing a weapon....... Driving 5 over is in no way comparable. :rolleyes:

[ScottsGT]

........make that " man allegedly firing a weapon"..................
Never know, might have been fireworks going off. Lets face it, we all don't know the facts of this case here, but it makes for some good conversation.

[CZ-75]

Driving 5 over is in no way comparable.

No, it isn't. But how does discharging a weapon miles from the scene make Cletus any more culpable in the death of the officer than someone speeding in the previously mentioned scenario?

Officer Bubba drops his donut, spills hot coffee on his lap trying to pick it up and wipes out a telephone pole responding to a call from a neighbor because I shot her cat w/ a BB gun while tearing open my trash - and I'd be guilty of murder?

Maybe they'd charge ME with manslaughter if my pizza delivery guy hits a pedestrian trying to deliver my pizza.

Good luck trying to sell that horse excrement.

[Quartus]

CZ said it well from a gut reaction point of view. Viking6 laid out the moral situation quite well.


Viking6? What are you, a space probe? :D

[JohnBT]

Convicted felon shooting a gun for the hell of it in a shopping center parking lot. Dumb goofball.

This one did NOT happen in the city FWIW. JT

Richmond(VA)Times-Dispatch:

Stancil, 31, is scheduled for a June 4 trial on the charge of possession of a firearm by a felon.

Commonwealth's Attorney Wade A. Kizer said he expects the grand jury to indict Stancil on three accompanying misdemeanors when it takes up the firearm-possession charge.


Stancil was arrested shortly after 2 a.m. Jan. 12, about the time and near the site of the accident that killed Officer Andre Gerard Booker, 26. In addition to the firearm-possession charge, Stancil was accused of recklessly handling a firearm, shooting a firearm in public and being drunk in public.

Booker was one of several county officers who responded to a complaint call that reported someone shooting in the parking lot of The Creeks at Virginia Center shopping center on Brook Road.

Police said Booker, attempting to block a parking lot escape route with his patrol car, apparently lost control of the 1997 Ford Crown Victoria while backing up. The car crashed through a fence and sank into the frigid water in an 18-foot-deep runoff retention pond.

Attempts by fellow officers to get him out in time failed. He was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

[TheeBadOne]

JohnBT, thanks for the info. Clears away a lot of the other posts speculations.

[Viking6]

Quartus, my wife thinks I'm in space. As for the article provided by JohnBT, I agree that the cause can be traced back to the initial incident that the officers were responding to, but intent on this should be hard to prove. Negligent homicide would be my course of action. You go for murder and you stand a good chance of aquittal. Not being a lawyer or having any real knowledge of the law, I am not certain whether the jury can opt for manslaughter if the charge is murder or if it's all or nothing at all.

[KMKeller]

quote:
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It sets a very dangerous precedent if it goes through. For instance, let's say you drive by an officer in his speed trap doing 5 over the speed limit,
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Come on people, it's much simpler than that. The Officer was responding to a man firing a weapon....... Driving 5 over is in no way comparable.

But where do you draw that magical line that makes any misdemeanor worthy of a charge of murder?

[cratz2]

There was a younger officer (not sure if she was technically a rookie) in Dallas when we lived there... First time it had frosted/iced in a while and she was chasing someone for something. Ended up losing control of the cruiser and hit an embankment as I recall. There was talk of charging the fleeing driver with manslaughter. Not sure how it panned out.

I'm of the opinion that the officer is responsible for his/her own death unless there were illegal/inappropriate road hazards. I do think this would set a very dangerous precedent of having a potentially wealthy citizen compensate the family of the dead officer instead of the police department.

[JohnBT]

Okay, I'm not going to go dig it up, but the local paper had another article on this guy.

Drunk convicted felon shooting a gun in public and an officer dies. He's screwed.

He admitted drinking a BOTTLE AND A HALF of rum at some point and then shooting a SHOTGUN in the parking lot after dinner.

He did get out of the car and go over the fence and down the bank to try and help the officer, but told the other guys there that he was in no shape to go in the water. He said he yelled at one policeman to break the car's window, but the guy pulled the door open on the floating car. Oops.

John