some help with powder please


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realmswalker
March 20, 2005, 03:19 AM
quick rundown.

I bought some hodgdon universal clays to load some .45 acp. using federal 150 primers and once fired assorted brass. I looked on the hodgon web site for loading data and they give 5.6 grains and the max load using 230 grain hornady fmj flat point bullets.

I have berrys 230 grain jacketed round nose bullets. I loaded up some rounds with 5.3 grains of hodgdon universal clays and the loads were very weak. They were weak enough to cause jamming in my HK USP full size which will eat anything. I didnt have any squib loads.


So I look in my speer reloading manual and see load data for 230 TMJ with H. Universal, which i assume is hodgon universal powder. the max load being 6.3


So my question is, do bullet brands really make enough difference of having to dial down from 6.3 to 5.6? does the fact that the web site has flat point bullets as their example make that much of a difference in use of grains from round nose bullets of the same weight? and what difference would there be between tmj and fmj and jrn? all being round nose bullets.

thank you for any and all help. and if someone has a good stout load. not max but a few grains below for using 230 grain jacketed RN bullets with hodgon universal, please let me know.

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P0832177
March 20, 2005, 09:06 AM
First consideration is that Berrys are plated bullets and not jacketed bullets. BIG difference. This comes from the Berry's Web Site
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

Rainer bullets has some data on their web site http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm

Smoke Rizen
March 20, 2005, 11:04 AM
In your post you mention Hodgdon Universal and Universal Clays? The Clays powder is not the same as Universal. I use Clays in some .45 ACPs at 3.9grs. W/230gr. RN lead .452 and 4.0 W/230gr. FMJ loads and have good results. I have loaded Universal W/ the same points but useing 5.7grs. and 6.0grs. I think you may have a problem in interpretation of your info. Check the Hodgdon sight for more info.

Jim Watson
March 20, 2005, 11:14 AM
The name of the powder is Universal Clays. There has been a lot of confusion over Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays for some reason. I don't hear about people mixing up Red Dot, Green Dot and Blue Dot, just because of one shared word.

Anyhow, increase your load so you get reliable function. The Hodgdon load is light because they used the Hornady flatpoint and seated it deeply. I think your Speer book is a more reliable source, considering that their TMJs are really plated bullets.

Smoke Rizen
March 20, 2005, 12:02 PM
As ststed before,check data for Clays,or Universal Clays as they differ greatly in load data from one to the other. I show no load data for International Clays in .45 ACP.

redneck2
March 20, 2005, 12:15 PM
if you have access to a chrono, test the speed.

If it's low, and the powder is correct for that application and within posted parameters, I'd probably bump it up until reasonable velocity is established

In pistols, you can go from too little to too much in a hurry. The faster the powder and heavier the bullet, the narrower the window. Sprinkle a grain of powder on top of a workbench and see how little it really is.

I'd also maybe try to call Hodgden and/or Berry's. I've found the manufacturers to be quite helpful. HTH

BluesBear
March 21, 2005, 02:04 AM
There has been a lot of confusion over Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays for some reason. For very good reasons.
Hodgdon, themselves, contributes to this confusion.

If you read their manual you'll find statements such as;

CLAYS™ Introduced in January, 1992, ... has "taken the clay target world by storm".

INTERNATIONAL™ is the second in the "CLAYS" series of powders...

UNIVERSAL™ ...As with all the "CLAYS" series powders...

The word CLAYS appears in a smaller, different font on the Universal and International labels.

The Hodgdon loading data referes to the powders simply as Clays or Universal or International.
You will NOT see Hodgdon referring to them in their data as Universal Clays or International Clays only as Universal or International.

I don't hear about people mixing up Red Dot, Green Dot and Blue Dot, just because of one shared word. That's because you'll never find Hercules/Alliant calling their powder simply Red, Green or Blue. In their data as well as their advertisments, they ALWAYS use the full name, Red Dot, Green Dot or Blue Dot. They also have no powder named Dot.


Hodgdon needs to decide on a specific name for their product and stick to it before someone tragicly goofs and sues the pants off of them. Boy, I sure miss Bruce.

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