[Larry Ashcraft]

I'm on the committee for the local Friends of NRA fundraiser, which is this Saturday night. In the standard package of prizes from the NRA is a 28 ga. Rem. 870 Express, which we are going to live auction. Now, a month ago I wouldn't have given it a second thought, since I shoot clays rarely and mainly hunt, but reading in here has piqued my interest.

Since most of our guests are hunters, I'm thinking it may go reasonable, and I'm trying to tell myself why I need it:

1. Cause I don't have one.
2. Cause Steve says so.
3. It would be good to start my four grandsons with. (would it?)
4. My wife may take an interest. She is right handed but shoots long guns left handed because of eye dominance. Last time she tried a shotgun it beat her up pretty well.
5. Cause Uncle Steve may dis-own my grandkids if I don't.

What would be a good price? Should I forget it for some reason I'm overlooking?

Thanks, Larry

[kudu]

I think because Uncle Steve says so is enough reason. :evil:

Seriously it should bring about going rate of $290-$330.

The 28ga is an excellent gun worthy of all the praise given it. If the shells were reasonably priced and had slugs available for it, it would be an ideal overall shotgun.

what's that, I believe it is Steve evilly chuckling in the background :D

[steveno]

any of the excuses should be good enough to have the shotgun. I have one of them and it is a lot of fun. besides it is a lot lighter than any 12 gauge if you are going to do a lot of walking (at least that was my excuse). Winchester makes 1 ounce loads with #4 , #5 & #6 shot which will handle just about any pheasant that I know of

[sm]

6. ALL the ABOVE. :evil:

You ARE going to have a MEC Single Stage Reloader set up in 28 gauge in the Auction as well - right? ;)

< elbows Old Fuff "wake up and pay attention will ya? See - I told ya I got this Reprobate dealie down pat - now where is my Certifiicate ?>

[Larry Ashcraft]

Good! I'm going to go home and tell Sandy you guys said it was OK. :D

Seriously, is a 28 ga. too hard to hit with for a youngster, like a .410?

[kudu]

They seem to have the ideal payload and pattern of any shotgun. My averages when I shot competition were the highest in the 28ga events. Just something about them that makes them easy to hit with. IMO and others, the best starter gun for kids and new shooters.

[steveno]

I think it would be easier to hit with than a 410 because there is more shot and the shot string is shorter. recoil is very mild also

[sm]

I am not alone in what I'm about to type.

-kudu mentioned one, highest scores of all 4 gauges in SKeet are with the 28 ga.

-There exists a payload to bore balance - unlike other gauges.

-28 ga hits HARD! Due to Shorter strings. WE WANT shorter shot strings.

-Kids should start with a 28 ga more than they do. They will break more targets and fell more game than with a .410. This keeps the kid interested and will want to continue to learn.

Here lies the problems: 28 ga shells are more expensive, folks that shoot a lot of 28 ga, reload them. Not just the Skeet folks, the small game hunters as well. So folks buy a kid a .410, these shells are more readily avail in stores, even a though they too are bit pricey - these are on more shelves. Again, skeet folks and hunters that shoot the .410 - reload them quite often.

Slugs - they do not make a 28 ga factory loading in a slug. Kid goes deer hunting - he totes a .410 with slugs, until big enough to use a 20 ga with slugs.

The 28 ga just flat patterns, better than it is supposed to. The guns that are truly on 28 ga frames, are a joy to tote, swing and shoot on long , tough upland hunting - but the 28 ga is going to hit hard and fell what pointed at. One is not handicapped - instead, they are actually given an advantage. NO apprehension of recoil, so one keeps head on the stock, uses CORRECT basic fundamentals - and the birds fall.

Flinch comes from anticipation of recoil. Even though WE KNOW gun fit to shooter, using CORRECT form and basics, LESSENS felt perceived recoil; a couple of things happen.

1) A shooter with a 28 ga will NOT jerk the trigger and miss. Shooter then notices how the correct form when used actually works - so since the shooter is NOT going to get hurt on recoil, shooter actually used a more correct form, head on stock, and shoots as supposed to. Usually when the light bulb goes off, folks like me get cussed at, and these folks get the 12 and 20 guns Fitted to them and discover the Pattern Board.

2)Folks have back, neck , shoulder injuries and surgeries. Folks have detached Retinas . Now the person that has shot all these years the bigger gauges, using guns that fit, using correct form and all...The body and the Doctor Will NOT allow this shooter to shoot larger gauges. Some are allowed the 28 ga- and no larger. This allows them to participate in clay games and hunting - and not be handicapped on these sports. Duck , Turkey and Deer....well they have to accept the limitations. One good example is the Trap leagues, and Sporting Clay courses set up for 28 ga. These folks can still participate.

Note: I know of folks with injuries , that are restricted to .410 only as far as shotguns, the .22lr for handgun and pistol. These are folks that competed and hunted - fired large round counts. Spilled more shot/ dropped more shells than some folks will ever shoot. I'm serious.

Don't think these folks cannot defend themselves with a 28 ga, a .410, or a 22 handgun or rifle. NOT their preference either - but shot placment is the key - and theses folks KNOW how to place a pattern, slug, or .22 bullet.

Oh Goody - I get all warm and fuzzy when we speak of the 28 ga. :uhoh: :D

[Smoke Rizen]

I'll set one on your fence post,that should seal the deal!

[sm]

Smoke Rizen,

Hello Sir! Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for the ...err..."support".

Sandy can chase you with the rolling pin - you are closer to Larry than I . :p

Of course that means you get a hug from Sadie and the other grandkids before I as well. :)

Humm...NOW how am I supposed to get Sandy's Salsa...I've done it now.

Sadie - your best hurry up and grow up some...learn that Salsa recipe...you got a Uncle a bit worried and about to go into withdrawl symptoms.. :eek: :D

Uh oh...if Sandy shoots that 28 ga...Larry won't get to, Sandy will not have time for Recipes, the grankids will not get to shoot "thier" gun, and I can forget about getting to see the darn thing when I visit...other than muzzle end...

Three....two...one...I figure a email from Sandy is due just anytime now...

[Larry Ashcraft]

Steve,

Thank you for the insight, again. Just checked our cost on the 28 ga. (yep, us committee members have special privileges). $275, BUT, its got the NRA medallion inserted. I don't care about that for my uses, so if it goes cheap, I'll get it, if not, another will come along. May have to have more than one though, if these kids all like to shoot.

Bud, thanks for the kind offer. I may take you up on it (can't beat Smoke Rizen's generosity).

Heck, the way you guys talk about those 28's, maybe I'll train the kids on my 12's and keep the 28 for myself. ;)

[Hoser]

I got a 28 O&U last summer and love it. Shoot skeet and Sporting Clays just as good as I do with a 12.

Buy four to five flats of 28 AA and reload to your hearts content. Or, give me the hullls and I can turn them into loaded ammo for cost.

Now if only I could afford that 28 Merkel SxS I have been lusting over...

[Larry Ashcraft]

Tom likes it... I like it!

[kudu]

The new AA HS 28's are only loadable about 3-5 times, IMO are junk, the Rem STS's are much better now. Do buy at least a couple flats of shells though, you'll need them.

[sm]

...another one bites the dust...

Next ??

How about that Dave fella, you know "what's his name"- moderates the Shotgun Forum on THR -yeah him - Rumor is he has shot a 870 a time or two - don't recall him being smitten by the 28 ga - yet. Humm... ;)

[TrapperReady]

Steve - I'll see about picking up a 28ga once I find a spot for the 16ga (2.5") MEC and the .410 MEC I don't even have yet.

Would a tube set from Kolar count? ;) :D

[Dave McCracken]

The more I see of the 28, the more I'm convinced it doesn't know it's small.

Watched a guy with his new Red Label grind wobblies to a fine dust recently.

One inveterate bird hunter of my acquaintance uses one for everything but waterfowl and NoDak ringnecks.

3/4 oz of shot in a .56 caliber shot column seems to be quite enough for many shotgun activities.

No better training tool exists for new shooters.

The sole downsides,IMO, are ammo availability and cost. The ammo makers definitely understand how Less Is More.

[sm]

Dave, when you finally quit sending checks to that College, you need a WM in 28 ga. You would really enjoy it.

Trapper - yeah a tube set counts. :p

When I shot a Citori 3 bbl set, many many times I only used it with the 28 ga bbl. Many a Tourney, I took only 2 bbls, the 28 and the.410. Shot the first 3 events with the 28, then used the .410 in the .410 event.

I was NOT the only one that did this btw.

At the moment I don't have any 28 ga's. My pet, an Older Citori in 28 ga was the one I kept , had off -site , fire got it and some others.

I ever get rich , the Model 12 in 28 ga would be nice, I used to shoot with a fellow that had one - really difficult to let go of and hand it back.

DO NOT shoot a Westly&Richards 28 ga, akin to the one Brister shows in his book. Trust me on this.

I am serious about how many times I used a H&R Topper in 28 ga , and how much fun I had. Granted folks thought I was nuts , then they would shoot it, or a kid would...then they figured out why my doves fell as did. Take 15 doves with 12 shells and folks still think you are nuts - get a bit curious as to why them birds " seemed to be hit so hard".

[Dave McCracken]

S'funny, Steve, had that thought myself. First, though, I'd pick up a MEC and components.

One of the first shotguns I ever shot was a 28 gauge single shot. A friend of Pop's would bring it over when they came to the farm for us to shoot. I liked it much better than the hard kicking 16 gauge that was the alternative.

I've hunted and shot with folks bearing 28s. One H&H that cost more than our first house, some doubles, a Franchi auto, some inexpensive singles and one not so uncostly. Francotte made a fold down "Knockabout" in 28 gauge, A&F carried them. Universally they were effective and pleasant to shoot.

If you get a 28, eschew the 1 oz loads. Stick to the 3/4 oz load and keep your shots inside 30 yards on live game. Use a bit more choke than you would on a 12 gauge.

[Hoser]

The new AA HS 28's are only loadable about 3-5 times, IMO are junk, the Rem STS's are much better now. Do buy at least a couple flats of shells though, you'll need them.

I have over 10 reloads on my 28 gauge HS hulls. I am using longshot powder and Claybuster wads. The STS hulls I tried worked fine also. But as I have about 2K HS hulls, I am sticking with them.

Larry, bring that 28 to the range. We will play. Let me know if I need to bring some ammo.

[kudu]

Hoser, I'm glad someone can get some loads out of them, but I don't like to reset my loader up for just AA HS shells, as I have about 1000 old AA's I'm currently still loading on and a couple new flats of old AA's that have yet to be shot, plus about 500 STS's that will interchange with AA in the loader with no noticeable problems. I don't do it for competetion anymore, just for fun.

If the AA HS's were near the same length as normal 28ga shells it wouldn't be so bad, but they are about 3/16" shorter and really leak shot out on normal loads. :rolleyes:

[Smoke Rizen]

I guess I should explain the post on buying Larry a box of 28s. He came home a few years ago to find a bunch of shells in a mason jar on the gate post at his house. I don't remember now what they were,but he couldn't stand it until he went out and bought a gun they'd fit in! Can't stand to see a loaded round just sitting around! Good to hear from you,I see most of the posts,I just lurk and wait to see if my limited knowledge (or lack of it) needs to be injected. God speed to you,and hope to see you at the next C.G.T.G. S.R.

[sm]

Smoke Rizen,
Hello Sir!

I suspected something along those lines.

If I run across those Fiocchi 32 ga shotgun shells I have somewhere - I'll PM you for a Mailing address. You can provide the mason jar - Deal? :D

[Smoke Rizen]

I even have a doz. or so jars here from Sandy's pickles. If you've ever had them you know how it saddens me to have them empty!

[sm]

Larry hasn't read this part of the thread yet - obviously. :p

*ahem* I don't know how sad empty jars of Sandy's pickles can be - yet. *ahem*

I do know how sad an empty jar of Sandy's Salsa can be. ;)

First thing I am going to do when I visit Larry and Sandy - grab a grandkid, I figure Sadie will be around. I figure Sandy won't hit me with rolling pin If I am holding Sadie...any of the grandkids.

Larry might not come after me if Sandy comes at me first...that or Larry will be out hiding with a new gun and letting me catch all the grief. :D

I didn't do a thing - honest. Not my fault Larry read a thread about a 28 ga. :p

[Larry Ashcraft]

HEY, HEY, plenty of pickles and salsa are available for everybody. Bud, if you don't have pickles, as Sandy would say "That's your own fault". :D

Steve, you get hooked on the "Ashcraft" recipe of pickles, well, the shipping could become prohibitive, if you know what I mean,

More salsa on the way, along with some pickles.

The 28, well, I figure the NRA one will go too high, but I'll run it up a ways anyway. If I don't get it, well, that's what Tulsa is for, I guess.

[sm]

So what are the odds now of Larry going home with a 28 ga?

AFTER I get my Salsa and Pickles...guess what I am going to be doing? "Here Larry - shoulder this one". :D

" Here Larry , this is a MEC reloader, "darn" it just happens to be set up for 28 ga." :p

Place your bets, This ought to be good. :D

One must do what one must do. I got something to do while at Tulsa. :neener:

[Smoke Rizen]

That's all I'm going to hear for the next two weeks,Tulsa,Tulsa,Tulsa! I'll be doing Polka,Polka,Polka at my parents 60th. Anniversary... Tulsa,Tulsa,Tulsa... There's always next year.

Maybe Larry can pick up one of those cool bullet key chains for me, or not.

[sm]

< Note to self: SR wants a Bullet Keychain>

Got a favorite Caliber ? Ya want the matching Lapel Pin too? :D

I'll make sure Larry gets this for you before he get the shotgun...I'll Volunteer to carry the new 28 ga. Wouldn't want Larry to scratch your key chain and all... :D