Why all the Glock hate?

KurtC

March 21, 2005, 09:02 PM

I have owned a Glock 30 and have qualified with it and several other models. It is as reliable and accurate as most other pistols.

The problem is that it is one of the most under-engineered pistols of all time. It was designed from the bottom line upwards, with a goal of under bidding the more popular guns of the day. This meant molding instead of forging, and pressing instead of milling. The result is a handgun with poor ergonomics and aesthetics. The trigger, slide lock and sights are some of the poorest parts I have ever seen on a handgun.

The one area where Glock excels is marketing. They grossly underbid other police contracts, making them popular for budget minded departments. This popularity made them attractive to the civilian market, who is grossly over-paying for the same handgun.

Unfortunately, most Glock fans have little experience with top quality firearms. If you disassemble one and compare the parts to a S&W, Colt or Beretta, you will see the difference. You might even feel that your wallet has been violated by purchasing a Glock.

I feel that the Glock is as reliable and accurate as most other pistols. If issued one, I would certainly trust my life to it. However, I feel that my personal money can be better spent elsewhere. :D

Lobotomy Boy

March 21, 2005, 09:09 PM

KurtC wrote:
The trigger, slide lock and sights are some of the poorest parts I have ever seen on a handgun.
Have you actually seen any of these parts break on a Glock? If they are rugged and reliable, how can they be "the poorest parts" you have ever seen?

dmallind

March 21, 2005, 09:11 PM

I have one - bought it because it felt right in my hand. Still does. I'd give the Steyr I have - which I consider a cousin to the Glock and which is pretty close in grip angle, bore axis etc - a slight edge because of how it balances but I like both.

I shoot a 1911 better than either but it's twice the price and then some. I really don't see the vast problem between adjusting to the gun you have. If I - a new shooter - can adjust between a 1911 and a Glock in the same range session without being any less accurate than I am with just sticking to one gun then surely a good shooter can. I'm certainly not good - but it makes no difference to me whether I'm using multiple platforms or not.

To be honest I think a lot of the Glock bashing comes from the fact that they have the reputation in the mainstream. Ask any non-gun type you know what a Kimber is or heck even worse a Baer and 99.9% will give you blank stares. Ask em what a Glock is and they'll probably get it wrong but they'll at least know it's a gun!

What this means is that many collectors and enthusiasts don't want to be seen as liking the brand that the unwashed rabble like because that's supposedly a sign of an equal level of knowledge . I have or have had a few collecting hobbies and this is consistent throughout ALL of them. Fountain pens are my other hobby and you get exactly - even to the 50/50 approximate ratio and the same frankly silly "soul" statements (NOTHING has a soul!) - the same argument about Montblancs. They are decent pens - they are reliable and write well - but they are not the be all and end all of pens just like Glocks aren't the be all and end all of guns. But because in each case the non-connoisseur has that image in their minds because of their successful marketing as being superior, the brands are reviled by a good chunk of the cognoscenti. It's too consistent to be coincidence as no other brand in either case gets the same treatment.

For the super high end watch collectors Rolex has the same role - chances are most of us think they are great but the big time watch guys are either going to despise them or think they are OK and capable but nothing special depending, it seems to me at least, on how much they care about showing themselves to be purists - just like the big time gun guys will split for Glock and pen guys for MB. Personally I try to form an honest opinion of any brand regardless of their image in the market place. Glocks work for me but others work better. Same for MBs. I hope I never am so insecure that I have to hate something because it's popular with non-experts. That just seems way too much like those pseudo-intellectual teenagers who like obscure bands only until they get popular.

I'm pretty damn sure there are valid reasons not to like Glocks - they probably don't suit many people with huge hands for a start - but I respect the opinions of those who give definitive and meaningful answers using objective criteria about why they don't like ANY brand more than the windy prattle you often see about Glocks.

Sam

March 21, 2005, 09:17 PM

Don't hate Glocks at all, just don't care for them.
Don't care for most Europistols really. They just don't quite feel right.

Seen plenty that worked just fine but they are missing something. No art no soul

Sam

Lobotomy Boy

March 21, 2005, 09:18 PM

If you have any doubts about what guns are the most rugged, check out this thread (warning: this thread is addictive): http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658

Try that with your Kimber or Wilson.

dmallind

March 21, 2005, 09:22 PM

Ergonomics and aesthetics are entirely subjective. For example Sigs are widely admired and yet the ones I have tried feel uncomfortable to me. I can barely reach the trigger on a CZ. I find Rugers rough and clunmsy.

The trigger on Glocks is not ideal I confess but given the inherent compromise of a consistent pseudo-DA trigger (and for good reason - since it IS consistent and eschews the need for a manual safety) is functional and comfortable. Incidentally if you like Glocks other than the trigger try a Steyr - big improvement in that area with a similar platform.

I have had no problems with the other "poor parts" but it's possible I will have I'm sure. Same as it's plenty possible people have problems with parts on any brand of guns - just check this very board! Not a single company that hasn't had people complaining about bad parts and most of em sell a fraction as many as Glock do - and therefore have a fraction as many opportunities for complaint.

But think again - if they are accurate and reliable while still being cheaper to produce because of production efficiency and value engineering what does that say about the capability of the company? There isn't a design and manufacturing company on earth that would not love to have that same plaudit - yet it came from a detractor essentially saying "They do the job of a gun (being accurate and reliable) as well as anything else - but are much cheaper and simpler to make".

Take that idea to the benchmark engineering manufacturers like Toyota and see if they think it's a BAD thing!

dmallind

March 21, 2005, 09:32 PM

This seems a consistent refrain.

Again the gun I shoot best is one of the oldest and most revered platforms (1911) from one of the oldest and engineering wise at least most revered makers - (S&W). It isn't even one of their cheaper versions of the same.

It seems well enough made. It's handsome enough in my eyes at least although the finish is less rugged than the Glock. It's newer and has been shot less but both outside parts and internals (esp the barrel lugs) are more worn. And yes I have been lubing it like a 1911 not like a Glock! It is indeed more accurate - or rather I am more accurate with it - than the Glock. It's also twice the price - I expect a superior product in that case.

But soul? Art? Can anybody say what gives it - or gives any gun or any machine - these attributes? It would be easy to just tell me I don't understand and don't know enough but heck - use examples from other products where I am more informed. Tell me a car that has soul or art or how it could have. I've heard the same thing from Maserati owners decrying faster and better handling BMWs. I've heard the same thing from BMW owners decrying more reliable, quieter and more practical Lexus and Acuras. None of them has been able to tell me what this "soul" is that some machines are supposed to have. What is it other than a preference or prejudice which gives an adherent a sense of pleasure and contentment that other brands do not?

By profession I am a QA Director for a manufacturing firm. Trust me I spend all my day trying to determine what customers want and how we can produce it reliably, effectively and efficiently. If there's a way to impart soul I'm not just asking for the sake of debate!

Pilot

March 21, 2005, 10:19 PM

I don't hate them. I think they're a fine firearm that does what is intended. I just never had the desire to own one. There are other pistols that do the same thing or better, but I am open to considering one.

PCRCCW

March 21, 2005, 10:27 PM

Id love to give you more/other reasons than you have already...but I cant.
IMO, the Glockheads are either defensive about the criticism on the net about them and get uptight or they are arrogant about their guns.
The guns themselves are good.......reliable, accurate (for the most part) etc.....but some of the owners Ive met have turned me off of them...and the wierd ass grip angle doesnt help if you are a 1911/CZ/BHP guy.
Shoot well................

EVIL5LITER

March 21, 2005, 10:27 PM

Allow me to give a little background on my question here:

The G27 I own was the very first gun I ever purchased, approximately three years ago. I bought the gun because I wanted a carry gun that I could count on to go bang every single last damned time I pulled the trigger. I researched the subject for quite a while before I finally settled on the G27, as it had every feature I wanted (concealibility, lightweight, good caliber, reliability, etc.). I knew it was to be a carry gun, so I knew it was going to be neglected. I needed a gun that could handle not being cleaned every week, that I could hide easily, and this gun fit the bill.

I have another hobby, that may be obvious from my username. I collect/race late model Mustangs. I hear from every other fan of every other brand on earth how Mustangs are a dime a dozen, they have no soul, they don't do this well, they don't do that well, etc.

Granted, I haven't gotten a single one of those people who've wanted to line up and run the 1/4 mile against me, but that's beside the point. Who cares if you're faster if your car doesn't have soul? :banghead:

I appreciate the Glock and the AK for what they are: Simple designs that work. They don't have to be expensive, they don't have to be pretty, they just have to go bang every time.

I guess when I get ready to buy a toy that is high maintenance, that is always broke/worn out, but looks pretty and has soul, I'll trade my Mustang(s) in on a Ferrari and I'll trade my glock in on a Wilson Combat or Kimber. Until then, I'll just stick with stuff that works.

Snake Eyes

March 21, 2005, 10:38 PM

Lobotoboy-

I've fired several Glocks, a minimum of 100 rounds through each, and yes, that little dufas-hickey bothers my finger.

I don't do a lot of manual labor type work, so, yeah, my hands are pretty soft. But your mama likes 'em :neener:

Truthfully, I don't really hate Glocks, I just can't stand them. Two main reasons (Other than those stated above):

1--They aren't intuitive or comfortable for me to shoot, and I can't seem to hit where I want or group like I can with a Sig or a Colt.

2--This is a big one...I think the take-down procedure for Glocks is clumsy, difficult and dangerous. There is no other gun I know of that requires me to break the 4 cardinal rules to take it down. To take down a Glock, you MUST pull the trigger. And those two tiny little tabs that have to be pushed up with the slide out of battery just so....give me a freakin break! I bet I can field-, then detail-strip my 1911 before you get halfway there with your soulless Austrian bullet hose.

Pilot

March 21, 2005, 10:43 PM

Steve,

There are other guns beside Glock that are 100% reliable, accurate and durable. Sig, HK, BHP, my Springfield 1911A1 all come to mind. My 1941 Mauser P-08 has never even hi-cupped. Glocks do not corner the market on good gun characteristics. They are an adequate tool, no more. There are others that do the same thing but have better triggers, are more accurate and feel better in the hand, looks not withstanding. However it is a personal choice. You like Glocks. That's great. Enjoy!

EVIL5LITER

March 21, 2005, 10:46 PM

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all guns. I'm not a fan of H&K's because of many of the reasons you guys don't like Glocks (grip, ergonomics, etc.). I like 1911's, I like Sig's, I like Walther's, etc.

However, out of all those guns you listed, how many fit the criteria I needed, and can be had for under $500?

Come to think of it, can ANY of those be had for under $500, even used?

LeonCarr

March 21, 2005, 11:00 PM

The reasons people hate Glocks (Nomex flame suit on)

1. People hate it when a gun that costs $500 brand new is more reliable than their $3000 custom built 1911, and runs out of the box on any kind of ammo without having to have anything tuned or adjusted.

2. People hate it when a Glock is tortured tested by every means possible, including dropping from a helicopter and being thrown up against a cinder block wall repeatedly with a spring loaded skeet thrower, and it still runs.

3. Gunsmiths hate the Glock because they won't make any money off of it, because the average person can do most if not all of the trigger and sight work at his kitchen table with a minimum of tools and labor.

4. People hate the Glock because they can never practice live fire malfunction drills like they do on a regular basis with the 1911.

5. Range officers hate the Glock because it gives them no job security, because when a department is equipped with the Glock they get to leave early because everybody qualified with no malfunctions. They also hate the Glock because you can give the average rookie a Glock and about five minutes of instruction and they will shoot a passing score.

I will always own at least one Glock, one AK and one Remington 870, because they are all virtually 100% reliable. A gun you trust your life to has to run, period.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Pilot

March 21, 2005, 11:01 PM

"Come to think of it, can ANY of those be had for under $500, even used?"

Damn good point. CZ, Ruger come to mind for a new, reliable semi. I just bought a used Sig 228 for under $400. I gotta tell ya, I was somewhat releived when my wife chose a $475 Glock over a $750 Sig or HK. I'd still rather have my CZ-75, but agree, bang for the buck, Glocks are a good alternative. However, my life isn't price sensitive.

EVIL5LITER

March 21, 2005, 11:11 PM

I was lmao when I saw your wife wanted one of the plastic fantastics....

Come to the darkside.... feel the power brewing within you...

medmo

March 22, 2005, 12:16 AM

The only firearm cult larger than those that pray at the 1911 Temples are those who make sacrifices to the Glock God. I think a lot of people hate Glocks because of the folks who are SO infatuated with them, (they have the bumper sticker, tattoo, ball cap, t-shirt, etc.). Glocks are not perfect, (as all guns are not perfect...), but mention that in front of any of those folks and you better be ready to step outside. I enjoy the Glocks that I have and think that they are no worse nor better than most of the other brands in the collection.

BTW - Speak any blasphemy amongst the 1911 Templars and your feet better be moving faster than your tongue.....

LeonCarr, I'm guessing that you already have the tattoo..... I'm sorry that you are so "hypmotized" by marketing magic. Yes, one can make a Glock fail as easily as most pistols.

MICHAEL T

March 22, 2005, 12:31 AM

Who says Glocks don't have soul I belive their the perfered weapon of Rappers and Gangbangers ,seems like a lot of soul to me. :D :D

Pilot

March 22, 2005, 12:34 AM

"I was lmao when I saw your wife wanted one of the plastic fantastics"

Yeah me too.

Outbacker

March 22, 2005, 02:05 AM

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it consume your destiny. - Yoda

1) I don't like plastic guns. ("I do not like them, Sam I am.")
2) I don't like paying for three internal "safeties" which are all disabled upon pressing on trigger. Not exactly a safety, IMHO.
3) I don't like having to break all 4 rules just to field strip my gun.
4) Glock's triggers suck. They just suck, they just suck, they just SUCK.
5) Did I mention their sucky triggers?
6) They are ugly as sin and offer virtually no options regarding finishes, etc.
7) Their factory sights suck.
8) Most of the ND's I've seen or heard about were with Glocks. See the "I'm the only one in this room professional enough..." thread for a first hand look at a Glock owner in action.

Glock's fifteen minutes are OVER. A sizeable number of federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies have been migrating away from the plastic guns to real guns made by Sig, HK, and Beretta.

dsk

March 22, 2005, 02:10 AM

Glocks are very good guns. They are not perfect, but they get the job done. I think the main reason why there is so much hate directed at Glocks is the fact that Glock lovers are often so arrogant. 1911 lovers are bad enough, but sheesh! I look at Glocks, not as the new king of handguns, but rather the 21st Century .38 Special. It is cheap, simple to use, and reliable, but in no way sophisticated nor anything special. If your gun is merely a tool for the job and nothing more it's ideal.

FireStar_M40

March 22, 2005, 02:33 AM

I totally agree with both "Dev_Null" and "OutBacker".

My biggest problem with Glock is "NO EXTERNAL SAFETY". I've been carrying/shooting handguns (mostly semi-auto's) for over 40 years.. and am use to having a external safety.

Glock, on the otherhand, places their safety as a internal part of the trigger. If you look at what each does, ie: "Trigger" used to fire weapon.. and "Safety" used to make weapon NOT fire, why would a gun manufacturer want to place both together as one? That makes as much sense as combining both the "Brake" and "Accelerator" together on a car.

That's my take on it.

FireStar_M40

PaleRyder

March 22, 2005, 04:46 AM

Maybe it's because Glocks are the supermarket firearm of choice right now. Every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to have a gun seems to be getting Glocks.
I don't hate them, but I think too many casual users who don't take the time to learn proper firearms handling and safety have them. Even cops seem to be shooting themselves more in accidents involving Glocks than other guns.

And, I don't like handguns other than revolvers that don't have at least a decocker on them. I prefer cocked and locked handguns, or Beretta's safety system.

There is also some arrogance there with Glock owners. I'll agree to that. I always get comments about my concern about no safety on them.
The cop who shoots himself in the school video might not have done that if he were carrying a Beretta or a Browning. The cop here in Indy who had his Glock taken away and was killed with it might have been able to do something had he been carrying a gun with a safety which would have taken the perp a few moments to figure out. A gun with no external hammer that can be seen and no safety to keep someone from pulling the trigger is just not a good idea, IMO.

donkee

March 22, 2005, 07:17 AM

It's not necessarily a hate thing, it's just that those who have shot a CZ don't consider anything else! :p

But seriously, having been bitten by the metalworking bug years ago, some of us just don't think anything that isn't steel is going to last. Shot XDs, shot Glocks, etc, but still love the feel of steel, especially holstered in leather...............

LeonCarr

March 22, 2005, 07:17 AM

Hey Medmo,

I used my tattoo money to buy a Glock :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Krag

March 22, 2005, 07:22 AM

1911aholics are:
1. Jealous
2. Luddites
3. Traditionalists :cuss:

Glockheads are:
1. They think they're "perfect"
2. Plastic Fantastic
3. The wave of the future :neener:

Both are right - and both are wrong. :mad:

Lobotomy Boy

March 22, 2005, 08:06 AM

Donkee, buying a CZ is what made a Glock fanatic out of me. I have a G21 and decided to get a "quality" metal gun for my 9mm. Perhaps I will feel differently after I get the crappy trigger fixed, but right now I'm kicking myself for not getting a Glock 34.

Medmo wrote:

Yes, one can make a Glock fail as easily as most pistols.

Medmo, you really have to check out this link:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=15432 (http://)

Watch the videos and then try to claim that other pistols fail as easily as Glocks.

Snake Eyes, you might want to see your doctor real quick.

Bill B.

March 22, 2005, 08:15 AM

I don't hate em but I don't shoot them as well as some of the other pistols available so I don't own one either. I will have to say this for the Glock they are extremely reliable and at self defense distance I can think of nothing that would work better. A friend has a tuned G17 that I will have to say he shoots like a bullseye pistol. Comes down to personal preference .......... :) .

Zach S

March 22, 2005, 09:35 AM

I hate 'em. The plastic sights suck. The finger grooves suck. The grip angle sucks. The trigger sucks. Not to mention, they're ugly and have no soul.

However, Glocks work. Not for me, but they do work. I've fired several, owned one, and will probably own another (the main reason I want one is for the 33 round mags, lol). Even though the plastic sights, finger grooves, grip angle and trigger suck, along with being ugly and having no soul, they are fine handguns and I wouldnt turn someone away from one, or be the 1911 snob that so many Glock owners are familiar with.

EVIL5LITER

March 22, 2005, 09:59 AM

I think the reason you see so many AD's with cops with Glocks is because it's Cops with Glocks. If cops carried H&K's, you'd see a ton of AD's with those.

The safety system works really well. Keep your ????ing finger off the trigger and you won't have a problem.

GEM

March 22, 2005, 10:26 AM

This must be a failure of capitalism. The communists have secretely controlled the market place. Why when I took LFI-1, a large majority of guns were Glocks. At IDPA matches, the SSP guns are mostly Glocks. At an OPS class, lots of Glocks. Thus, most people must be dupes of evil forces.

The government must step in and force people to buy other guns. Oh, never mind.

Stinkyshoe

March 22, 2005, 10:35 AM

Glock or 1911...they are both great. It depends on what you want. I think can justify purchasing a used glock for $400 and carrying it without worry than having a similar 1911 interms of accuracy of reliability for $800(arbitrary figures I realize, but in general glocks are cheaper and equally as good as a more costly 1911)

AQUINAS

March 22, 2005, 10:36 AM

The issues with Glocks that I personally have are as follows.

1. They were, years ago, evaluated for duty carry by CHP, one of the reasons they were not accepted is that a primed case was placed in the chamber of a Glock, the pistol was placed in a holster on a duty belt that was hung over a chair. The holster was then rapped with a baton and the Glock went off.

2. I have seen a barrel failure (catastrophic malfunction) on a S&W 4586 where the barrel was blown out the front of the gun, downrange about 15 yards. The officer was fine. The problem was probably a squib load. The all steel construction of the gun was what minimized injury to the officer. A plastic gun frame would have had "issues" I believe.

3. On the positive, I have found many officers like the ergonomics of the pistol. I personally like the Glock 22 and shoot it well, although I will not own a polymer frame gun.

4. I am a firm believer however that if you like a particular design of pistol and shoot it well, fully aware of its shortcomings, you should carry what you like, its your life.

Island Beretta

March 22, 2005, 10:36 AM

I guess when you claim 'Perfection' you set yourself up for a hard look..this hard look reveals flaws- and some people say 'hahaaa, gotcha' and some people say 'other guns have flaws too' and some people say 'that's not a flaw'..

ABBOBERG

March 22, 2005, 11:55 AM

Am I missing something here? All this talk about a Glock being immersed in mud and none of it getting in the barrel? I thought that even a Glock would go kaboom if it got mud in the barrel. I have a friend who took the Glock factory tour and watched the propaganda video at the beginning. Apparantly they show a glock getting run over by a tank, then a soldier plucks the gun out of the tread imprint in the mud and fires it! So mud in the barrel must not be an issue!

Tony Mig

March 22, 2005, 12:28 PM

Though I'm liabel to repeat what many here have already said, I'll throw my two cents worth in on this one anyway......

First and foremost, I think the hatered towards the Glock stems from it's lack of traditional design and it has no long standing history.
When you pick up a modern stainless steel S&W revolver, you can still see it's design origins through out the gun. Same with any 1911, it's got history, it's proved itself in many battles, and on many compition target ranges like Camp Perry, it's made of tradition materials just like the first one's to come off the Colt assembly line close to a century ago. Glock does not have that.

Unlike a 1911, one's ability to modify a Glock is very limited. Even with a Colt or S&W revolver you can change the sights, and try an unlimited variety of wood, or rubber grips. The modifications that can be done to a 1911 is almost limitless.

All guns are utilitarian, but until the Glock showed up, most every other gun made to that point could be cutomized with nickle finishes, engraving, gold inlays, polished and given a deep charcoal bluing.....there ain't much that you can do to a Glock's finish to improve it's appeal.

Now I personally do not hate Glock's, I will not own one because I don't like the grip angle, and the trigger also pinches my finger...(and these fingers see a lot of manual labor, plus they are caloused from guitar playing)

I do however own a Springfield XD, and even though the triggers are similar, the XD trigger does not pinch my fingers. I also like the grip angle as it just feels right in my hands, and allows me to naturally point the gun toward my target.

Another thing that has caused a lot of hatered towards Glock is it's popluarity with the gansta/urban criminal element. These are the smae poeple that have caused a lot of the anti gun sediment in this country, and that has made our hobby a difficult one to enjoy.

Glock has become to the gun world, what the cheap Japanees car became to the auto world, some love them because they are cheap to buy, they seem to do what they were designed to do, they are also cheap to operate, and most of them last a long time without any major malfunction. And there are those that hate these cars because they don't represent traditional American styling, size, or horse power.

It was stated in an earlier post that Glock has had it's 15 minutes of fame, as many police dept's are going back to more traditional handguns. This statement is very true, as we have seen many of the leading federal agencies also changing the way they view service arms for their agents, and have drifted towards the 1911/.45 ACP platform totally bypassing the police favored .40 S&W.

It many not happen in my lifetime, but there will come a day when the Glock will be viewed as a historic novelty, and people will still be shooting 1911's, BHP's, and my favorite...."The Wheel Gun"......

Krag

March 22, 2005, 12:53 PM

Tony - I hate to disagree with anyone who likes the XD (I like 'em too) but the 1911-style pistol, or any SA design for that matter, has NEVER been a factor in the L.E. market and - aside from very limited use by Tactical/SWAT units - NEVER will be. D*mn few administrators in their right minds are going to authorize SA pistols as general issue. They require much higher levels of training than most LEAs are willing to provide and have a higher likelihood of bad PR. Some agencies allow them and with well trained officers that's fine. But for mass issue pistols with DA/SA, DAO or Safe Action triggers will be used by the vast majority of police and military.

I will say right up front that I have owned over a dozen 1911 pistols and only one (a Para LDA) has ever worked out of the box. All of the others required the ministrations of a 'smith to get them to do what they were supposed to, or what I wanted them to do Some of the work was minor and some was major. I'm not complaining, it's the nature fo the beast and I accepted the fact beforehand. SOP with 1911s. I have owned eleven Glocks and all have worked perfectly out of the box. What can I say?

I still own and compete in USPSA with 1911 pistols - and for this purpose I love them. I probably shoot my Para 16.40 HiCap Limited better then any handgun I own. But that being said I would never use a 1911 (or any single action pistol) for CCW or home defense. For the former I use a Kahr PM9 and the latter is handled by a Glock 17. Under the pressures of a life threatening situation I do not want to have to manipulate or squeeze safeties nor do I want a light SA trigger.

I also have three customized Glocks (a 34, 35 and 21) that I use for USPSA competition. While I shoot them very well I have to give the edge to the Para. But I like the Glocks so I still play with them at matches.

Lastly, from a historical viewpoint the 1911 was never that popular as a military sidearm. It was standard issue with a total of only ONE major military power - the USA. Sure it was standard with Mexico, Norway, Brazil, Argentina, etc. but they hardly rank as major military powers. Do they? While large numbers of 1911s were used by other armies they fall within two classes:
1. Weapons obtained during times of emergency (ex. UK, Canada, France) which were replaced as quickly as possible once the emergency was over.
-or-
2. U.S. military aid paid for by the American tax payer and, again, usually replaced by something else.

I like both 1911s and Glocks and see no reason to knock either type. It just irritates me when the partisans of one type make wild and unsubstantiated claims/attacks about the other side's choice of handgun. Peace. :D

Peter M. Eick

March 22, 2005, 01:53 PM

It is not that I hate the glock etc. I owned one for a while and recently sold it after I shot it over 3000 rnds out of the thing. I felt that was a reasonable test of gun and far more then virtually any Gun Rag would do.

My one big complaint is that grip of all of the plastic guns flex during recoil. I could never get over this problem. The glock is "squishy". If you grip the frame tightly then it will flex in your hand. When shooting my g20 (10mm) I had to grab it pretty tight during recoil.

Some will say this is a "feature" and talk about how soft shooting it is because the gun frame absorbs some of the recoil.

I on the other hand consider it a design flaw and will not ever own a plastic (opps, sorry, "polymer") handgun in the future.

Missouri Mule

March 22, 2005, 01:56 PM

I don't hate Glock's. In fact I am saving to get me one, a G36 for CCW.

What I dislike , not hate is the "Glock SNOB".

That said I love my 1911's and I dislike 1911 snobs too!

Glocks are good guns. So are a lot of other modern designs.

The thing about Glocks that appeals to me is their strictly no nonsense utilitarian design and their relatively speaking low cost.

I am not going to nearly as upset if a $500 glock gets beat around as I would if my $1500 semi custom 1911 does.

Hell Glocks are so ugly to start with I likely wouldn't even notice a few marks.
That is another thing that draws me closer to getting one.

A freind who is a a border line Glock Snob calles them his pig guns. That's because they are uglier than mud and eat everything he throws at em.

ABBOBERG

March 22, 2005, 02:10 PM

I think that any gun that gets mud in the barrel and doesn't KB is well worth it!

spacemanspiff

March 22, 2005, 02:27 PM

glocks are ugly. about all you can do to pimp a glock is have the slide refinished.

at least with my kimber i can get really cool grips, and do some two-tone stuff if i wanted.

what gets me is the people who buy a glock and then run for their cameras to take a picture of it to show off to the online world.

gee, your glock looks exactly like the other 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 that everyone else has.

true, glocks do have their place in the firearm community. just not in my home, thats all.

JohnKSa

March 22, 2005, 03:07 PM

The big problem with Glocks is that they weren't designed by a gun maker. As a result:

They didn't look like what a gun "should" look like.
They weren't made from what guns "should" be made from.
They didn't feel like guns "should" feel.
They didn't operate like guns "should" operate.
The manufacturer didn't behave like gun makers "should" behave.
They don't field strip like guns "should" field strip.

Some people have never gotten past these issues. The fact that they worked and in some ways were superior to competing designs makes no difference.

Boats

March 22, 2005, 03:43 PM

Hate is a pretty strong word. I'd say I have what I'd term disdain for Glocks. I don't mind hearing about them matter of factly, but I cannot stand the evangelization of them, often by people whose entire education on handguns before buying a Glock was a Playstation.

"But all of those law enforcement agencies can't be wrong can they?"

Nope, but almost all of them are undoubtedly cheap as well, proving what, exactly?

Glock makes adequate pistols, nothing more. Were I given one other than a G20, I'd sell it off. Were I issued one, I'd attempt to qualify with something else, even if I had to pay full MSRP for it.

George Hill

March 22, 2005, 06:16 PM

Glocks?

http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/roseanne.gif
Hmmm... She's not that bad looking...

:barf:

Fatelvis

March 22, 2005, 06:22 PM

The trigger really sucks. Other than that, I like `em!

shooter.45

March 22, 2005, 06:23 PM

I have a G19 and love it I did not buy it to enter into a beauty contest. I bought it to do one thing shoot and that it does. All these people always say there ugly who cares If you want a gun to look at get a 1911 if you want a gun to shoot and shoot every time GLOCK... :)

George Hill

March 22, 2005, 06:36 PM

"if you want a gun to shoot and shoot every time GLOCK..."
Or a SIG.
Or a Beretta.
Or a CZ.
Or a S&W...
:rolleyes:

Zach S

March 22, 2005, 06:40 PM

If you want a gun to look at get a 1911 if you want a gun to shoot and shoot every time GLOCK... That statement reminds me of something else I've heard. Goes something like "Those who carry, carry glocks, those who shoot, shoot 1911s."

shooter.45

March 22, 2005, 06:41 PM

Yes not saying those are not good guns. I have had all of them you mention and still have some But my Glock has seemed more rugged and have not had any misfires or jams... Like I have had with other guns.. :rolleyes:

shooter.45

March 22, 2005, 06:42 PM

That statement reminds me of something else I've heard. Goes something like "Those who carry, carry glocks, those who shoot, shoot 1911s."

Yup and I do both....

ThreadKiller

March 22, 2005, 07:04 PM

First of all, let me address the AK's. They're ugly. Extremely ugly. Accuracy is adequate if you're hunting barns at less than 100 yards. Power is adequate if you're hunting deer sized game at no more than 150 yards or so. (But they have to very large and very feeble deer) They are the very antithesis of my beautiful old Model 70's. Sure, the AK is reliable. So's the toilet.

Glocks feel funky in my hand. I don't care for their ergonomics at all. They're exceptionally reliable. Accuracy is adequate for SD purposes. Too much plastic on 'em. WAAAAAAYYYY too much plastic on 'em. But hey, I'm a traditionalist.

I don't hate either one. It's just not likely that I'll ever own either one.

Neither will ever appear on my "real guns" list.

Tim

30Cal

March 22, 2005, 08:14 PM

I've shot a couple, and they did absolutely nothing for me. Maybe I'm spoiled, but a Glock just doesn't feel anything like a handgun. It's like eating with a spork.

Ty

EVIL5LITER

March 22, 2005, 09:04 PM

1. They were, years ago, evaluated for duty carry by CHP, one of the reasons they were not accepted is that a primed case was placed in the chamber of a Glock, the pistol was placed in a holster on a duty belt that was hung over a chair. The holster was then rapped with a baton and the Glock went off.

I don't even see how this is possible.

lyricsdad

March 22, 2005, 09:10 PM

I would not want to be in that room if thats the case... who would have thought to smack a gun loaded with a heavy baton to see if it would go off.

Lobotomy Boy

March 22, 2005, 09:12 PM

We are talking about the CHP here. ;)

White Horseradish

March 22, 2005, 09:13 PM

Dunno why people hate them. I'd take one if someone offered it for free.

I just don't like them because I rented and tried a few Glocks at a local range and not a one of them fit my hand comfortably. OTOH, many people say Makarov grips are terrible, but they fit my hand great. I guess I was made to Warsaw pact standards...

Krag

March 22, 2005, 09:22 PM

Boats

March 22, 2005, 10:17 PM

Given that Colt patented the Schwartz safety and used it in some pre-War pistols, I hardly think they took forty years to recognize that perhaps a FPS was desireable.

How any of that 1911A1 trivia excuses Glock for not having one all along escapes me. :scrutiny:

cool45auto

March 22, 2005, 10:38 PM

I like 'em. Wouldn't trade my G22 for anything.

Sir Aardvark

March 22, 2005, 11:00 PM

Glocks are like black licorice, some people like 'em, some people don't. But those who like 'em.......like 'em a whole lot!.

REASONS I DON'T LIKE GLOCKS:

Can't shoot reloads.
Can't shoot lead bullets.
They look ugly (subjective criteria, I know).
Incredible ease of a negligent discharge.
Occasional story of a sensational kaBOOM!.
Plastic grip is uncomfortable and slippery.
In my opinion and experience, they are not very accurate.
In the People's Republic of Kalifornia, they only hold 10 rounds, just like everything else, thus obliviating their main attraction.
Never had a recall, just recommended voluntary upgrades.

REASONS I DO LIKE GLOCKS:

Cheap!.
Don't rust very easy.
The G30 is really the only one I like - It's tiny and holds 10 rounds of .45ACP.
An incredible aftermarket of Bling, Bling exists for all Glock models.

Zach S

March 22, 2005, 11:27 PM

Actually the same thing could happen with a 1911 - why do you think all new ones have the firing pin plunger safety?You mean all the new ones from Colt (or most of in Colt's case), Para, Kimber, and S&W? Those are the only ones I can think of with a series something style safety. I may be forgetting one or two.

Snake Eyes

March 22, 2005, 11:38 PM

Glock recognized the problem was possible and performed FREE updates on all their early pistols, whereas it took Colt 40 years to admit it.

Oh yeah...Glock is THE freakin' innovator in free updates on their pistols....

...much like the "product update" notice--absolutley NOT a recall they issued for well over a half a million pistols in models 17, 19, 21, 22 and 23, due to the possibility of catastrophic failure.

Glock "Perfection" indeed.

Did I mention they're ugly and they have no soul??

PS: Reference: The Gun Zone Glock FAQ (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html)

browneu

March 22, 2005, 11:52 PM

I don't hate Glock but I can tell you they are definitely not for me. I don't like the crappy spongy triggers, I don't like the grip angle, I don't like the flex in the frame when firing the gun, I don't like the safety on the trigger, I don't like the possibility of my dog being able to chew up the frame, etc... But what steers me away the most from Glocks are the people who always try to sell me one whenever I ask to see an autoloader that isn't a Glock.

1911.45

March 22, 2005, 11:57 PM

I don't hate Glocks. They are inexpensive, reliable, reasonably accurate, have good ammo capacity, are easy and inexpensive to maintain, are durable, and they always fire. I have a G23.

If I needed, for some reason, to throw my pistol around in the mud before firing it, I would definately grab my G23 rather than my Wilson Combat.

And if I wanted to take my kids and their friends to Dairy Queen, I would definately take my wife's minivan. I don't hate Glocks, and I don't love Glocks. They have their place in the firearms world like minivans have their place in the automotive world.

JohnKSa

March 23, 2005, 12:20 AM

much like the "product update" notice...they issued for well over a half a million pistols in models 17, 19, 21, 22 and 23, due to the possibility of catastrophic failure.A very SMALL possibility, you might add. (If informing, not ranting were your goal ;) ) What it really amounts to is that Glock is replacing the frames on an entire run of pistols for free. Not because they ARE defective and WILL eventually fail, but because the PROBABILITY of a frame rail breaking was unacceptably high in Glock's opinion. In other words, because Glock projected that a few of the "half a million pistols" will fail, Glock's replacing the frames on all of them for free. They're really scoundrels, aren't they... :rolleyes:

gc70

March 23, 2005, 12:21 AM

Glocks are ugly. Guns should be made of steel (not even aluminum) and have wood grips - like my 1911s. Plastic is for toys, not guns.

Glocks are ugly. Guns should be carefully machined works of art in steel, not something made from plastic poured into a mold.

Glocks are ugly. Did I mention that they are also inexpensive, accurate, reliable, and happen to fit my hand nearly as well as a 1911?

Nothing wrong with Glocks - except they are ugly.

medmo

March 23, 2005, 12:36 AM

LeonCarr, you must be into some cheap tattoos if you spent ALL of your tatt money on another Glock. Do they come off in the bath tub?

Lobotomy Boy, do you know the guy who made the video with the guns rattling around inside the dirt filled Home Depot bucket on the link you posted? If you do say "Absolutely not" if he asks to borrow one of your guns over the weekend.

I didn't pay a whole lot for the Glocks I own either. Not a bad thing, right? I like my Glocks. I don't buy into the weirdness though.... drove over it with my truck, stuck it in mud, froze it solid in block of ice, threw it in a jar of acid, dragged it behind a speeding train, hid it up a camel's wazoo...

The top modern LE firearms are all about the same concerning accuracy and reliability when you are comparing pistols in the same price range.

glocker1911

March 23, 2005, 07:25 AM

Glocks are "ugly" and have no "soul", have I got that right? And people say this forum isn't anti-Glock. Now that I see the great reasons people have, I understand. Are Glock's pretty? NO. Will they win any style awards? Probably not. What are they? Lightweight, accurate, dead reliable, and as close to a perfect CCW gun as you can get. Does Gaston Glock have a peronality problem? Maybe, but I don't care because he doesn't come with the gun. I love a lot of differant style guns, especially 1911's, but if I could only have ONE gun, It would be a Glock, absolutely no question.

LeonCarr

March 23, 2005, 07:39 AM

Actually I don't care much for tattoos, because I know what happens when you bring a tattoo to a gunfight. I would rather spend that money on ammunition and training.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Krag

March 23, 2005, 10:19 AM

The way this discussion is going it has assured nothing but more bad feelings between Glock and 1911 fans. So sad. :(

Seraph

March 23, 2005, 10:27 AM

I don't hate the Glock line, but I don't like them at all. Since most all pistols are highly reliable these days, I see no reason to discount the importance of aesthetics. As said many, many times here already, the Glock is, IMO, somewhat wanting in aesthetic appeal. Moreover, it doesn't feel or point like a pistol to me. Perhaps the longer versions might point better, being less muzzle-neutral, but the Glocks generally feel like a staplegun to my hand. Someone mentioned above that you can feel the frame flex in your hand, if you squeeze it without a mag inserted. That was something I noticed about my friend's G23 right away, and I didn't care for it, but I still wouldn't own a Glock, even if it had a steel frame. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but the lack of any manual safety is taboo to me, as I feel it invites the Barney Fife-style ND's (re: "I'm the only one in this room professional enough to handle a Glock .40...BANG!!!"). And that little safety on the front of the trigger is tantamount to a booby trap. Now, I have to admit that I haven't fired many Glocks - only one, in fact, which was the G23 I already mentioned, and I fired it well, but I'm not a bad shot, so there was no great epiphany there. My overall assessment of the Glock is that its utility doesn't outweigh its lack of appeal, but this is not hate. It is, rather, lack of enthusiasm. FWIW, I wouldn't buy a polymer framed 1911, either, though I would do that before I would buy even an all-steel Glock.

glocker1911

March 23, 2005, 12:38 PM

Boats

March 23, 2005, 12:43 PM

The way this discussion is going it has assured nothing but more bad feelings between Glock and 1911 fans. So sad.

It is so encouraging for world peace and kumbaya that you played no part in that dynamic. :evil:

Seraph

March 23, 2005, 01:15 PM

A polymer 1911 like a Wilson KZ45 is the ONLY gun I MIGHT consider over a Glock if I could only have one gun. The lack of a safety on a Glock has been done to death. If you're at all trained with a firearm, which you should be if you own one, rule number one, keep your finger off of the trigger, is all you need. Again, there are many guns I feel very comfortable with. But when TSHIF, I'll be reaching for a Glock. BTW, I've never felt the need to go around squeezing my gun with the mag out, so a little frame flex doesn't bother me.
You're so funny. Why do you feel the need to rebutt my solicited opinion, item by item? I haven't condemned the design, but merely explained some reasons why I don't like them, and won't buy them. Your subtle indictment of my level of training is pretty rude, since you don't know anything about me at all, but it is, moreover, really funny, because you come off like a defensive teenager, spouting cliches. I could point out that many of us believe that, if you are at all trained with a firearm, snicking off the thumb safety as part of your draw should be second nature. If the SHTF, please do pick up your ugly plastic bullet launcher and throw down. I'll cover you while you move. ;)

Hawk

March 23, 2005, 01:23 PM

I have a G21; no hate here. However, after purchasing and toting around several other makes I have come to realize that I actually prefer a little more weight in a handgun than the Glock provides. I doubt I'm unique (odd, perhaps, but not unique).

For those that are neutral on a handgun's weight, a polymer frame is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

For those of us that prefer the weight of a steel framed handgun, the polymer frame IS a problem. To some it's a "feature", to others it's a "bug".

At least Glockophiles don't pay extra for low weight, unlike the scandium crowd. :D

thereisnospoon

March 23, 2005, 01:33 PM

why the :cuss: can't we all just get along?

The last thing we need to do is attack each other when there are hundreds of politicians and the like attacking gun owners every day.

The Glock/1911 debate will never end, just like the 9mm/.45 debate or the 30-06/.270 debate. Truth is, I don't want to be shot with any of them. If you're dead, WHICH type of gun the perp used is immiterial, you're still dead.

Find a gun you like, train like hell and often and get them before they get you! END OF DEBATE

And, so that you know, I own several glocks, a Kimber, a Dan Wesson Point Man pistol and several revolvers. I love them all :D

I would never own a Wilson Combat though...I've met Bill Wilson and he's quite an ASS :neener:

Rockstar

March 23, 2005, 01:52 PM

Glocks are Glocks. Take 'em or leave 'em. 1911's can be anything from pot metal paperweights made in some third world country or a quality firearm. Whether or not one likes "1911's" (whatever that means) shouldn't even enter into whether one likes Glocks. Lots of folks like quality 1911's and Glocks. I like both.

phorvick

March 23, 2005, 02:16 PM

I must be one of the real odd balls. I think that a Glock is beautiful. The fact that it goes bang every time is only an added benefit.

glocker1911

March 23, 2005, 03:01 PM

Man did I hit a nerve or is someone just having a bad day? I was just answering some complaints raised against Glocks and giving my personla opinion. I'm very familiar with wiping off the safety on a 1911. I was trying to insinuate ANYBODY in particular had poor training, only pointing out that trainbing makes up for lack of a safety. BTW, notice my name and I thinks it obvious I'm not laying hate on a 1911 and love on a Glock. They're both great. I hate reading posts knocking the 1911 as much as I hate posts knocking the Glock. If you don't like a particular gun, just move on. No need to drag down those of us that DO like a design.BTW, thanks for calling me a "teenager". That takes me back more years than I want to remember!
:neener:

Glocker

March 23, 2005, 03:41 PM

Glock is the best in the good book. Jesus has a Glock under his robe, and "yes they do have a sole, otherwise they would not hold up so well. If they did not have a sole they would break down and fail all the time" !! A gun like Glock can never let you down when you need it the most. it's like a good friend :cool:

spacemanspiff

March 23, 2005, 04:18 PM

blasphemy!!!! jesus was a carpenter. he'd have something he could put custom-holy-grips on. i see jesus as a k-frame kinda guy.

:neener:

Glocker

March 23, 2005, 04:43 PM

Jesus got tired of making handles that break for on guns that break. he got feed up and said " LET THERE BE POYMER AND THEN THERE WAS GLOCK" in chapter 1 verse 2 i see his disciples carried xd 40 springfields. :D :D

Fatelvis

March 23, 2005, 04:49 PM

I can tell by your handle, that you`re probably a fan. And maybe a little delusional. :uhoh: JK

spacemanspiff

March 23, 2005, 04:49 PM

god! smite this blasphemous heathen non-believer!!!

[taps foot]

he's a cooking something up! just you wait.

Chris Rhines

March 23, 2005, 07:48 PM

Many people consider one's choice of sidearm to be more important than how one shoots with whatever sidearm he chooses.

Of course, those people are idiots. Goes without saying.

- Chris

Longbow

March 23, 2005, 08:52 PM

This thread is a call for manufacturers to make a "Glocksauer 1911 model" in a hurry!!! Otherwise the rioting will continue!
errr...is the S.A. XD "it"? ;)
Or does it need a wood grip panel and then, its "it"? :D Photoshop, anyone?

MassMan

March 23, 2005, 09:15 PM

I have several friends who love and swear by them. I have no doubt they are great guns, but they just don't feel right in my hands. This just reinforces my belief, contrary to that of others, that there is no one perfect gun for everyone.

cowboybobb693

March 23, 2005, 09:16 PM

Because the only plastic that should come near a handgun is a MasterCard !!!
Besides I get tired of seeing all of the gangbangers " wid da gangsta lean be sootin em sideways to be lookin' kool an sit"
Just my .02

EVIL5LITER

March 23, 2005, 09:46 PM

So let me get this right:

Glock=No Safety=Bad

Revolver=No Safety=Good

Ok, how about this one:

Polymer=stronger than steel=bad

Polymer=lightweight=bad

And finally:

Glock=bad

XD series=Copy of Glock=Good?

I can understand the ugliness part. If I wanted pretty guns, I wouldn't have a C&R license. I like functional guns.

Glocker

March 23, 2005, 11:11 PM

as you all can tell by my name i love glock. i think glock is the best gun made. i've owned many different types and name brands ( springfield .45's , sigs, kel-tecs, smiths, springfield xd's, and many more ) i think they are all good guns if you take care of them they will take care of you when needed. i think out of all guns glocks is what offers me what i want in a hand gun. i own many other types of guns that are not glocks and i love all my toys, but if you remember when you was a kid, you had your favorite toy, right now glock is mine. i just joined this sight today, i have never done this kind of thing before. heck i'm still learning how to use a computer and i think this was fun and i hope to hear from all out there. i just love all guns but i love glock the most. :)

SpaceCowboy

March 23, 2005, 11:14 PM

The claims that early Glocks could be made to fire if struck has some basis in fact. Actually the same thing could happen with a 1911 - why do you think all new ones have the firing pin plunger safety?

Glock recognized the problem was possible and performed FREE updates on all their early pistols, whereas it took Colt 40 years to admit it.

These stories are repeated so often that many people believe them while those who depend upon them to buttress their positions conveniently leave out pertinant information. Naughty, naughty.....

No. SA never had a drop safety; the high dollar 1911's don't have them either. As for SOME of the others, that is a lawyer invention. The problem glock realized is the cost of lawsuits and settlements outweighed the cost of "updating" a slew of pistols.

And why are people throwing their CCW's in mud and freezing them solid and other such strange actions? I don't understand the purpose, what does it prove exactly? My gun sits on my side in a nice soft suede(SP?) holster. Very far away from mud and frozen tundra and accidental suicide leaps from airplanes.

As far as the fantastic plastic that I love to hate. My 21 shot very well. It was certainly a two handed gun, but shot nicely. If I HAD to take a block, the 19 seems to have the right combination of size, capacity and fit. The 19 also points and manuvers very well. Now if they made the 36 in a fullsize (5"), that would make me all warm and fuzzy.

Pointman1776

March 24, 2005, 01:32 AM

Conceding that, yes, there is a place in this world for Glocks, they just don't have a place in my world anymore. Sold my Glocks because I got so damned tired of pulling the trigger and waiting for the damned thing to decided whether or not to wake up, get out of bed, and have a cup of coffee before going to work and go bang. Doesn't matter if I can put 1"-2" groups at 15yds with a 17, 34, 22, 24, 35 or 21 if I can't stand the trigger action.

medmo

March 24, 2005, 02:05 AM

LeonCarr.... No way are you that poor. Go splurge and get something meaningful inked somewhere.

Any gun can be really ugly and without a soul.... it's all about the situation you are in and which end you are looking at.

I don't hate any of the guns I own and I'll even admit to have a Jennings 22lr in my collection, (take it out sometimes for plinking but pray never have to have it in my hands when fearful). I carry CCW guns in collection that have individually proven reliable to me with a given load that I am comfortable with and have confidence, (Glock included...).

There is no perfect or flawless guns. All of our mechanical spring operated bullet launchers will fail sometimes. Train for it. Prepare for it regardless of whose name is stamped on the slide. If you don't train and prepare for it than Murphy's law indicates that you might die with a quizical look on you face as you are staring at a malfunctioned firearm in your fist.

I think a lot of "hate" has been generated in the past 10 or so years where LE departments felt the need to "unify" side arms. When folks are allowed to pick and choose they will usually find a firearm that they are most comfortable with and shoot best. When you attempt the opposite than department cheifs are driving a square peg into a round hole. My brother absolutely hates Glocks. He started his career with a Security Six with which he chose and was very comfortable with. He transitioned to a Sig when the Dept he works for transitioned to semi's. He chose the Sig, was extremely confident and comfortable with the Sig. When he was forced to carry a Glock when the Dept "unified" he was very upset. It is not the gun he chose and is most comfortable with nor has he ever acheived the same official range scores with the Glock than with his previous Sig or Security Six. He really does hates Glocks. I have tried to soften him but I have failed.

If you like it than buy it own it and enjoy it. If you don't than just leave the rest of the guys to their peace. If you REALLY like it and think it is the most awesome thing known to mankind since homogonized milk, gas piston engines and sunshine............ shut up and leave the rest of us to our peace.

chris93473

March 24, 2005, 02:15 AM

i like glocks i like 1911s.

so you ask me what's my point ??? my point is i like glocks and i like 1911s.

Fatelvis

March 24, 2005, 06:46 AM

If the need ever arises to have to use your pistol as a club, you adversary will laugh as he/she is getting "plastic-whipped"! :uhoh: (Goes the same for XPs or any other toys).

Krag

March 24, 2005, 07:02 AM

We have a local PD (one of the largest in the state) which adopted an Officer's Choice handgun policy last year. They can carry an pistol they can qualify with in 9mm, .357 SIG, .40, 10mm or .45 ACP. It must use department issue Speer ammo and it CANNOT be a single action pistol.

The previous standard issue handgun was the Beretta 96. About 75% of the officers went with various caliber Glocks, some stuck with the Beretta, a few use Para LDAs. The SWAT team voted to use the Glock 22. Officers were polled regarding the single action restriction and only five stated they'd like to carry a 1911.

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 08:22 AM

Spacecowboy wrote:

what does it prove exactly? My gun sits on my side in a nice soft suede(SP?) holster.

It proves that the Glock is more rugged than the other guns in this test:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=15432 (http://)

That may not matter under normal circumstances, but what if you ever find yourself in an adverse situation where you don't have the luxury of storing your gun in a nice safe holster overnight? It would only take a small shift in our social situation for you to find yourself crawling on your belly through a muddy, sandy, mucky swamp while people were shooting at you. In such a SHTF scenario, I'd want a gun that will work after being dunked in the salt water and mud and sand. In other words, I'd want a Glock, and not any of the other guns in the test shown in the above link.

glocker1911

March 24, 2005, 09:41 AM

If I ever have to use my pistol as a club, I think I've got bigger problems than am I carrying my Glock or 1911 today! :rolleyes:

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 10:09 AM

I think the point of the Glock torture tests in the links I posted is that the probability of having to use your gun as a club increases with non-Glocks in extreme conditions. The other guns in the test were only usable as clubs while the Glock still functioned as a gun.

I have a friend, a fellow who raced motorcycles for the Harley factory team in the 1960s, who wears a t-shirt that says: "If Harley built an airplane, would you fly in it?" Say what you want about Harley's "soul," the fact is that Harleys break down more often than any other major brand of motorcycle. Tolerable in a motorcycle, which is for all practical purposes a toy, but not tolerable in an airplane, where mechanical reliability is a matter of life or death.

Rephrase that question and ask yourself, would you rather fly in an airplane built by Glock or an airplane built by another gunmaker?

355sigfan

March 24, 2005, 10:13 AM

After custom 1911's Glocks are my preferred sidearms. They are reliable accurate and easy to shoot well.
Pat

March 24, 2005, 10:15 AM

Again, Standing Wolf is about right on all counts!!

Let us speak of many things, shoes and ships and sealing wax......

Ash

March 24, 2005, 11:45 AM

I suppose it is because Glock-o-philes are so damn snotty, like the fat rich kid on the block who comes by and says his bike is sooooo much better than every body elses. It is irritating and as such, the response against them is generally bad. Same goes with Glock. They are fine, durable, reasonably accurate and reliable. But it is friggin arrogant to go around telling everyone that your Glock is better, stronger, tougher, yadda yadda yadda than anybody elses firearm. Read Glock fans postings about it here. It is that fat kid with the bike, or more correctly, the mall ninja with his Glock.

I will take my CZ-75 against any Glock any day. I'll take the P-01 against the Glock as well. If Glock nuts would spend less time trying to tell us how theirs were better than ours, we would certainly get along.

Ash

phorvick

March 24, 2005, 11:57 AM

Every gun probably has its place. For me, ...

1. if I were filling up a land fill, I would take a Jennings
2. if I were going to the range with my old buds, I'll take my 1911
3. if I am in a slow mood and want to just go back in time I'll bring out the revolvers
4. if I want to shoot very acurately at the range I'll bring the CZ 75 SA
5. if I am heading to a gun fight, I'll take Mr. Glock

they all have their role in life

Ash

March 24, 2005, 12:27 PM

If I were going to war, I would take the CZ.

Ash

medmo

March 24, 2005, 12:29 PM

??? That may not matter under normal circumstances, but what if you ever find yourself in an adverse situation where you don't have the luxury of storing your gun in a nice safe holster overnight? It would only take a small shift in our social situation for you to find yourself crawling on your belly through a muddy, sandy, mucky swamp while people were shooting at you.???

Uuummhh, Yeah. Some folks have actually spent time in your theoretical situation. None of my assigned weapons failed and none of them were Glocks. I guess that means they are at least equal to a Glock?

Just continue doing really bazaar and kinky stuff with what ever gun you choose and enjoy. I'll happily continue to just shoot, clean and enjoy mine.

355sigfan

March 24, 2005, 12:36 PM

If I were going to war I would grab my M4 Carbine and my Wilson CQB. I would take a Glock 17 over the CZ any day. Don't care much for crunch tickers myself.
Pat

ruger357

March 24, 2005, 01:00 PM

Glock's are fine weapons. I have owned a few of them. I just do not prefer them. To each their own.

LeonCarr

March 24, 2005, 01:01 PM

I think the main purpose of the various "hate" threads circulating is to educate folks about various handguns, and to drive home one main idea: to carry what you believe in. If you believe in the 1911, carry the 1911. If you believe in the Glock, carry the Glock. If you believe in a .50 Action Express Desert Eagle, carry the Desert Eagle. What makes it fun is that you have a choice :).

Medmo, I am still not getting any tats :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

MNine

March 24, 2005, 01:18 PM

No hate here, just preference for other models. I have owned a Glock 21, 23 and a model 17. I have had FTFs out of a 23. In fact I have managed to have a FTF in models produced by 5 major manufacturers (SIG, Beretta, Glock, Colt and HK). Then again I have had mdoels which have worked flawlessly.
I only hate the field stripping method for the Glock.
It is interesting to note that with Glocks being soooo durable, why are the big contracts going to? SIG, right? The French (I know, I know flame suit on) Gendarmes just got a contract on the SIG SP2022 and the DOD as well. The US Army uses the M9 (Beretta, I know Glock was not in the competition) and M11 (SIG). The British Army uses SIG. The Germans the HK USP. Why not Glock if they are so much better? Don't these guys go into more harsh and adverse conditions (weather wise) than any LEO?
As far as I know Austria and Norway are the only militaries that issue the Glock (Israel too?)
If anyone has a list of what militaires use what model pistols I'd be interested to see the breakdown by manufacturers.

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 01:28 PM

I have a CZ75B and a Glock 21, and I know which one I'd grab in an emergency. It ain't the CZ.

M9 wrote:

It is interesting to note that with Glocks being soooo durable, why are the big contracts going to? SIG, right? The French (I know, I know flame suit on) Gendarmes just got a contract on the SIG SP2022 and the DOD as well. The US Army uses the M9 (Beretta, I know Glock was not in the competition) and M11 (SIG). The British Army uses SIG. The Germans the HK USP. Why not Glock if they are so much better? Don't these guys go into more harsh and adverse conditions (weather wise) than any LEO?
As far as I know Austria and Norway are the only militaries that issue the Glock (Israel too?)

We all know that the military decision-making process is a paragon of logic.

Rockstar

March 24, 2005, 01:43 PM

First thing I'd do, if I thought I was going into combat would be to get a thorough psychiatric exam to find out why I was so delusional.

revjross

March 24, 2005, 01:47 PM

I've owned and/or fired Springfields, S&W's, Sigs, Walthers, Kimbers, Kahrs......etc. and Glocks. ---- The Glocks have NEVER malfunctioned in any way (others have). They may not be the prettiest ---- but they get it right in the most important area!! :cool:

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 01:53 PM

First thing I'd do, if I thought I was going into combat would be to get a thorough psychiatric exam to find out why I was so delusional.

If you think you've got some issues, Rockstar, you might not want to wait until you go into combat before seeking the help you need. ;)

Ash

March 24, 2005, 02:04 PM

CZ equals or exceeds the Glock in quality. Of course, I didn't have my brain cut in two :D

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 02:20 PM

CZ equals or exceeds the Glock in quality.

I own both CZ and Glock, and that's not been my experience. If I could do it over I'd own to Glocks and no CZs.

Glocker

March 24, 2005, 02:37 PM

for war..... anything that fires the .45 G.A.P. !!!!!!!!!!!!! yea baby. :D

Island Beretta

March 24, 2005, 03:03 PM

I own a Glock and not a CZ but the CZ is way higher quality..

Graystar

March 24, 2005, 03:18 PM

Just curious. Seems to be alot of people on internet forums that hate Glocks. Why?Because a non-American company came up with the best design for a duty weapon.

Sure does tick ME off! But I own a Glock anyway.

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 03:19 PM

I own a Glock and not a CZ but the CZ is way higher quality.

Way no comment.

Krag

March 24, 2005, 03:22 PM

The armed forces and/or national police of Sweden, Finland the the Netherlands use the G17/G19.

Chris Rhines

March 24, 2005, 03:33 PM

I will take my CZ-75 against any Glock any day. I'll take the P-01 against the Glock as well. And here we demonstrate the dangers of overly broad statements...

I replaced my CZ-75 with a Glock 35. The CZ malfunctioned constantly in competition. The Glock does not. The Glock also has a 2# trigger, takes 20 rounds in the magazine, and will shoot into 2" at 25 yards as a matter of course. Still want to put your CZ against my Glock? What range, what COF, and how much?

I still have that CZ-75, although I rarely shoot it. I still like the platform, but the Glock has proved a lot more dependable. It's easier to focus on the shooting when you aren't worrying about your gear letting you down.

- Chris

Warner

March 24, 2005, 03:41 PM

I can’t hate Glocks, but I sure do dislike them with a passion. I base that on trigger, ergonomics, quality of the breed and more.

The fact that they may always go “boom” only goes so far in the bigger picture. Compare that concept to plain water, which also serves in a critical capacity for us. But how many of our psyches would be content with ONLY water available for drinks 24/7. That conveniently brings me to the other half of the equation … Glock owners.

Just as Danny Glover or Alec Baldwin always seem to automatically taint a movie for me, the disproportionably large, strangely defensive and naively spellbound segment of fanatical Glock owners is a very real part of my overall bad attitude here.

I also see the huge number of rank novices that choose this pistol as their own. While the pistol made indeed be sound, the newbie factor alone tells me a lot about the advertising and street hype surrounding this pistol.

Let’s put it this way; through my years in the shooting sports, “gun folk” have usually proven out to have an beautiful blend of gracious manners, common sense and good, solid judgment. ‘Nuff said there.

We were given our precious senses for many reasons, and not all of them utilitarian. It would seem to take a rather odd individual to summarily dismiss the finer points in anything … and go so head-over-heels for the “water” version.

W

Ash

March 24, 2005, 03:47 PM

And, since we wish to throw out anecdotes, my CZ-75Turk has YET to have a failure of any kind. Period.

Overly broad statements are very comonly spouted from the mouths of Glockites.

Ash

Boats

March 24, 2005, 03:48 PM

The armed forces and/or national police of Sweden, Finland the the Netherlands use the G17/G19.

Some day that list might hit an Armed Force that has been in a firefight more recently than 1945. :p

Old Dog

March 24, 2005, 03:51 PM

I wasn't gonna touch this thread ... being a dedicated 1911 guy who's tried for years to convert the heathen -- but Warner, you echo my sentiments exactly (and I yours).

And hey, count me in with the folks who also believe CZ-75s are superior to Glocks as well ...

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 03:53 PM

Just as Danny Glover or Alec Baldwin always seem to automatically taint a movie for me, the disproportionably large, strangely defensive and naively spellbound segment of fanatical Glock owners is a very real part of my overall bad attitude here.

Warner, that's an incredible insult to a large number of THR members. If you read through this thread, you'll find that most of the obnoxious, insulting posts have been posted by the anti-Glock folks. Most of the pro-Glock folks have simply been responding with logical arguments. Much of the animousity from the anti-Glock crowd seems to result from their negative reaction to the use of logic. Hence they resort to emotions and start insulting the Glock's lack of "soul."

I know I haven't insulted any other gun or the owners of those guns. I have just said that in a torture test on AR15.com, the Glock was the only pistol that passed. I have also said that I thought the Glock was of higher quality than the CZ because I own a CZ75B with problems and a Glock without problems. I'm talking from experience. Most of the people who take issue with my experience lack any of their own. Strike up one more for those who find logic annoying.

To imply that Glock owners are firearms newbies is also a dangerous statement. I got my first firearm in 1971, and have owned dozens of handguns from most major makers, foreign and domestic. My decision to buy nothing but Glock autoloaders in the future comes from much experience rather than inexperience.

If Glock fans are obnoxious and inexperienced, then Glock haters are obnoxious, inexperienced, and illogical. I'd rather be the former than the latter.

BTW, if given a choice between drinking nothing but water or nothing but another beverage, I think the sane choice would be water.

Black Majik

March 24, 2005, 04:00 PM

I used to REALLY REALLY REALLY dislike Glocks when I first began shooting.

My reasons were:

1) The triggers were difficult to get used to. Too much staging and very mushy.
2) The grip angle caused the gun to point upwards
3) The finger grooves drove me nuts
4) The fullsize Glocks had fingergrooves that were too far spaced compared to the compacts
5) The subcompact Glocks only have two finger grooves so that my pinky would hang off of the gun
6) The sights sucked
7) It has a polymer frame
8) No external safety (I was used to the 1911)
9) Since I'm a die hard 1911 fan, all those 1911 vs. Glock threads drove me nuts.
10) I like my guns to have some weight to them
11) It felt cheap.
12) You can see light from one side of the Glock through the other side.

Needless to say I was pretty biased against the Glock pistol. But reviews after reviews I was becoming oddly interested in the pistol. So I took a look at a compact Glock one day and even rented a Glock 23 to try it out at the range. I remember distinctly renting a G17 long time ago and I absolutely hated it. But that was because we also had a Sig Sauer P226 and to me and my friends the Sig felt significantly better. Anyways, back to shooting the G23, it felt good, and I wanted to fill a .40S&W niche.

I ended up buying a G23 to try out. I've gotten used to the pistol. The compacts G19/23/32 frame feels good to me. It fits my hand well, but I cant overcome the pistol pointing upwards to what feels good to me. It just doesn't point naturally. I tried to install a 3.5# connector by Schere and it doesn't really help the trigger any. It still sucks. I tried the $0.25 trigger job. I guess its just practice practice practice, but I dunno... While I'm fond of the Glock 23 (Easy to use, disassemble, lightweight and reliable) im equally not fond of the gun for most of the reasons I've listed above.

But each day I'm still opening up to it. I haven't sold my Glock yet. :)

Pilot

March 24, 2005, 04:08 PM

Lob wrote:

"I have a CZ75B and a Glock 21, and I know which one I'd grab in an emergency. It ain't the CZ."

The CZ is THE gun I pick up in an emergency. Lob, why don't you just get rid of the CZ or get the trigger work if you don't like it. Your starting to sound like a broken record.

Chris Rhines

March 24, 2005, 04:34 PM

You didn't really answer the question, Ash. Are you going to stack your CZ-75 against my Glock? Let's post some par times and group sizes, eh? :D

Once again - it's the shooter, not the gun.

- Chris

Ash

March 24, 2005, 04:46 PM

It is the shooter, not the gun, and I would gladly do an informal (or formal, for that matter) shoot. Yet, it seems that Glock is the only LOGICAL choice out there. So, you see, Glock lovers are the only ones capable of logical thought, the rest are not. The rest of the shooting community is unintelligent and illogical because they do not shoot Glocks.

Read my above post about that fat rich kid and his bike.

Ash

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 05:17 PM

I chose to ignore the post about the fat rich kid on the bike because it was a perfect example of how obnoxious the anti-Glock folk can be.

Also, your comment about Glock being the only logical gun further proves the other point I was trying to make--that it's the arguments against Glocks that are illogical. You clearly missed the point when you interpretted that as saying that Glocks were the only logical guns. The ironic thing is that by missing my point you proved my point.

Warner

March 24, 2005, 05:19 PM

Thanks Old Dog.

Lobotomy Boy - there seems to be a problem with reading what's actually written. Try again, and you'll see that I was referring to FANATICAL Glock owners, not ALL Glock owners.

:confused:

Chris Rhines

March 24, 2005, 05:23 PM

Good Lord, but some people are just desperate to be offended. I gotta ask, Ash, what's with the chip on your shoulder?

Right, enjoy whatever it is that you shoot... :rolleyes:

- Chris

Ash

March 24, 2005, 05:30 PM

Eh, okay. Didn't know I was, er, so, uh, hmmm. You know, your statement made absolutely no sense. You stated "Strike up one more for those who find logic annoying." That implies that the Glock is the only logical choice. Anti-Glockers, in the event your reading ability has passed it by (which it seems to have) have made logical statements as well. You imply that only Glock lovers are logical and make logical arguments, whereas those who would carry something else think otherwise. Frankly, I think you need to get that piece of brain back.

I, for one, have nothing against Glocks. I do not like striker-fired polymer handguns without external safeties. You imply that makes me illogical. So be it. My CZ-75 is apparently a hell of a lot better than yours as mine has exhibited NO problems. If we wish to delve into the insteady world of anecdotes, than my friend, shall we look into Glocks that go boom?

How about you take your perfection and go shoot it and have fun. Why does it bother you that we don't like your toy?

Ash

Lobotomy Boy

March 24, 2005, 05:32 PM

Sorry about that, Warner. For the record, I didn't find any examples of obnoxiousness in your post either. I guess I'm getting a little touchy from all the anti-Glock haranguing and illogical arguments from some others. If I want to listen to crap like that, well, that's why I have a wife.

SGTIsaj23

March 24, 2005, 08:20 PM

There are several things about Glocks most people don't like. First of all I know an equal number of people who like/dislike the Glock. Like all weapons i has its ups and downs.

My personal gripe are the grips. I've tried the standard, the new style the rubber wraps, but I don't like them. I cannot and will not fire a weapon that doesn't feel comfortable in my hand. Secondly, they are too light for me. This probably stems from the first gun I learned to shoot on. It was a S&W Model 14 .22LR target pistol. It's a heavier weapon and that's what I'm used to now. I have a Beretta 96FS .40S&W as my service weapon. My carry weapon will be a S&W PT140.

Most people don't like the Glock because they are different. Most casual shooters don't like the setup. Their balance is different. Plus they try it one time and don't give it enough time to form an educated opinion.

I have fired several different types of Glocks numerous times and will try again usually once a month or so while at the range to see if there's any difference.

But the Glock is a love/hate gun. I don't really know anybody who is in the middle.

355sigfan

March 24, 2005, 09:00 PM

Not all the big contracts are going to sig. The FBI and over 70% of law enforement uses Glocks.
Pat

Bobby Lee

March 24, 2005, 09:06 PM

There are a few people who assume that all Glock owners are inexperienced kids who know nothing about other firearms.

They assume these "kids" like their Glocks because they just don't know any better.

That could be true in some cases but there are a lot of very experienced people that carry Glocks.

They do so because they are basically good reliable guns.

I really can't see why this is so hard to understand.

If someone says their Sig is a good reliable gun no one get all bent out of shape over that. What is the difference? The average Glock is just as good or better than anything you can buy and ALL experienced shooters know this.

Fatelvis

March 24, 2005, 09:09 PM

If I ever have to use my pistol as a club, I think I've got bigger problems than am I carrying my Glock or 1911 today!

Glocker, its alot more likely than you think! Sometimes using a "less than lethal" pistol whipping, will end a fight before it ever comes to using gunfire. Plastic pistols make that option non-existant.

cowboybobb693

March 24, 2005, 09:36 PM

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post that you CAN do with a Glock, you can mount those REAL cool " Homeboy Night sights".
Just TRY and do that with a 1911 :neener: :neener: :neener:

Longbow

March 24, 2005, 10:14 PM

I own a Glock and not a CZ but the CZ is way higher quality

Why is that? Are you equating "looks" to quality, instead of function? I never have a malfunction with my Glock 17. It fed and fired all brands and types of 9mm ammo I put through it without any problem. To me that's quality! It does what I wanted it to do. I can't say the same on my (used to be) CZ. Sure its prettier, but reliable it was not.

355sigfan

March 24, 2005, 10:19 PM

Yes please define quality. Fit, Finish, accuracy reliability what exactly are you talking about. Personally I trust Glock more than the CZ based on what I admit is a limited experience with CZ.
Pat

Glocker

March 25, 2005, 12:27 AM

i rest at night knowing that most of the law inforcement personal is carrying a GLOCK, as the side of the car says "to serve and protect " and the only way thats going to happen is if the officer ( God love his or her soul ) is packing a glock. and if they are not near by i always have my glock. :evil: oh yea baby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

medmo

March 25, 2005, 12:36 AM

Bobby Lee I agree of your assesment of Glocks. See Glocker's post above and than answer some of your questions in your post.... that's why.

And.... please don't smack me in the head with your pistol regardless of the frame material. Me thinks it is going to hurt.

The only thing that seem logically remaining on this thread is that LeonCarr still needs to ink some skin.

DSRUPTV

March 25, 2005, 12:55 AM

I don't hate Glocks at all. They are one heck of a reliable firearm and good shooting comes from practice. They don't have the best trigger, and I don't like the safety either. I also don't like the way they look but if it came down to using a Glock to protect my life its appearance would be the last thing on my mind.

nico

March 25, 2005, 01:15 AM

After shooting a glock tonight, I must say my opinion of them has increased greatly. The 31C that I shot fit my hands pretty well and was pretty accurate. The trigger was a little spongy but felt much better than I expected based on what I've heard here and that a lot of people seem to consider glocks DAO. If I were to buy one it'd probably be 9mm and not have the compensator though. I had never fired a .357sig before so I don't know what to compare it to, but the muzzle blast and noise from the compensator outwore the novelty of shooting flames through the slide by the time I emptied the first magazine.

That being said, the 9mm USP I shot immediately afterwards felt superior in every way and was much more accurate than I thought I was capable of shooting (not that many people would argue with that).

chris93473

March 25, 2005, 04:15 AM

screw you all i'm going to king of this world and get rid of everything in this world. we will all have ONE type of gun, ONE type of rifle, ONE type of car, ONE type of watch.........no more brand names just only.........my name. the gun i produce will shoot 1in groups at 900yards and it will last FOREVER, my car will do 1.3seconds in a quarter mile and will LAST FOREVER. my computer will have a 1000000terahertz processor and will NEVER make even ONE error. BLOCKBUSTER will no longer have late fees. tacobell will open till 3am......

chris93473

March 25, 2005, 04:33 AM

screw what i just said. i'm just gonna take all ur toys away and give you all baseball bats and rocks.

chris93473

March 25, 2005, 04:34 AM

if you all can't get along that's what i'm gonna do. DON'T MAKE ME DO THIS !!!!!!!

one45auto

March 25, 2005, 07:48 AM

I harbored an unreasoning prejudice against them for years until I rented a Glock 19 at my local range last summer. One box of ammo, one target, and fifteen minutes later I was out busily searching for a used one to call my own. (At that time new models could not be imported into Maryland) I found one that very same day, a second generation pre-ban model in mint condition (with two fifteen rounders) and it's the most reliable semi-automatic I've ever owned or fired, bar none. It has never had a jam or malfunction of any kind and I wouldn't hesitate to stake my life on it. It's my "always" gun - whenever I'm at home, it's always close to hand.

Still, I realize that there are those who dislike them, for whatever reason. But hey - different strokes for different folks. :)

Lobotomy Boy

March 25, 2005, 08:13 AM

Take a deep breath, Chris, close your eyes, and go to your happy place. Once there meditate on the following Mantra--"It's okay that some people like Glocks. It's okay that some people like Glocks."

Ash

March 25, 2005, 08:32 AM

Actually, it's okay for people to like Glock. However, they tend to say that the Glock is the only modern pistol and everything else is stone age (I have read such statements by posting members here before), or that their Glock is better than everyone else's pistol, or lines similar to that. The CZ is not a piece of crap that Glock users are trying to call it. Envy, perhaps, or just plain ignorance. But you see, Glockers can't seem to talk well about their handgun without bashing everyone else. That is childish and probably garners the greatest amount of disdain or disgust than anything else.

Loboboy, my previous post was harsher than intended, for that, I am sorry. But, do go back and read your posts, and posts by others pro Glock before making broad statements. And, take yourself less seriously about "soul"comments. Those are tongue-in-cheek. I suppose that is the other thing, Glock-o-maniacs have very poor senses of humor, take themselves way too seriously, and perhaps are wound up a bit too tight. Most 1911 lovers will admit they are mossbacks. I, personally, am a neo-luddite (as mentioned somewhat above). Glock people will snear and say that I can't handle progress (that irritates me, but I find that all too common, especially there is little innovative about the Glock, they merely borrowed from other designs, many of which were much, much older and were Browning's original designs in the first place). No, I like steel in my firearms, wood stocks, and manual safeties. I am well trained and know how to use one. When you sit in a duck blind, you learn to rise up, flip the safety off, fire off two or three rounds of 3 inch magnum, and then let the dog run out and get the ducks (or geese). I have never pulled on fowl without flicking the safety off. It is second nature.

Same goes with my handgun. I personally like the CZ platform, and to you Glock boys out there, you are full of crap when you poo-poo it. The CZ is equally as reliable and accurate, but so are SIGs, Rugers, and the like. Your's isn't the best. Sorry, but it isn't. There are too many variables at work to ever determined the best handgun. My RAP-440 is my CCW piece. It is heavier than a Glock, to be sure, but it has a wonderful trigger and allows for all three carrying conditions. It may soon be replaced by my CZ-40P, but who knows.

The 1911 sport crowd can be irritating when they say the only good 1911 is $1,000 or more. Yet, a good quality 1911 can be had for less than the cost of the Glock. As a result, you encounter many who like the lower-end pistols. They obviously are not money snobs. But, many Glockers can't seem to live with the rest of us. They have to constantly tell us how theirs is better than everything else. That is annoying.

Accept that I do not want a Glock. They are too expensive for what you get. They are reliable and sturdy, and if I can acknowledge that, what keeps Disciples of Glock from doing the same for other well-made, tough combat autos? That, my friend, is one of the strongest roots of the anti-Glock sentiment.

At some point, I am going to start telling plastic priests to go shoot somewhere else if they are going to start blabbering about how theirs is better.

Ash

Lobotomy Boy

March 25, 2005, 08:44 AM

I can hardly envy CZ when I have one. My animousity towards CZ stems from a frustrating trigger problem I'm having. Once I work that out I'll probably love the gun, but right now that is not how I feel. Right now the CZ is just giving me a case of the warm fuzzies for my Glock. The CZ is the first gun I've bought that has given me trouble since a P.O.S. Stoeger Arms Luger I bought back in the late 1970s.

Krag

March 25, 2005, 08:48 AM

"God bless Gaston Glock and his son.... darn good people" :cuss:

While I like Glock pistols (I own seven) and admire Herr Gaston (I've met him on a number of ocassions - he is a true Continental gentleman) his son is an obnoxious jerk! In fact, since Gaston has semi-retired and the "boy" has taken over things have gone downhill as regards the way the company treats its people and customers.

ZekeLuvs1911

March 25, 2005, 09:12 AM

I currently own about 24 handguns and not a single one is a lock. I have over half of them in 1911 platforms and the rest as Sigs, Berettas, H&K, and others. My 1911s have all worked right out of the box.

Bobby Lee

March 25, 2005, 09:25 AM

I agree that some Glock owners seem to have an unnatural love for their pistol and they claim that it is 100% perfect.

I think they are CLOSE to being "perfect" for me. They require different sights before they are "perfect" for ME.

They may not be perfect for everyone. Your Sig or Beretta may be YOUR version of perfect.

Those that feel that the Glock is the ONLY choice for EVERYONE and reject all other choices have a mental problem in my opinion. Many other guns are just as reliable in average conditions.

I don't think they are the best choice for the average cop or the average untrained and inexperienced dumbass. :what: I would also include the 1911 in this area. The average cop or dumbass has no business with one because in some hands they are only an accident waiting to happen.

What the Glocks really does well and in fact better than any other pistol I have tested is staying very reliable in bad conditions.

They will work without lube.

If carry a pistol in such conditions then the Glock is possibly the very best choice you could ever make.

Intune

March 25, 2005, 09:35 AM

Wow! Some of you guys are into your guns. Hate to see somebody disparage your kids! They are tools people. A Makita drill might fit my hand better than the Milwauki model. I like the way a Ford F250 rides but like the way a Dodge looks. So what? It's called preference. It's not arguable, despite the heroic attempts displayed herein. My brother prefers a mini Morris because he lives in a large city, has a little garage and no children. I'm gonna tell him today how much of an idiot he is because he doesn't have a nice big Suburban like I do for the family & dog. Some of you can go on all day about the four-wheeling capabilities of a Hummer and how he's an idiot for owning a mini. Preference. Allow people theirs.

Oh, I carry a G27 all the time. It might be replaced by a Kahr PM40 someday. Maybe not. Or a Rohrbaugh. Or a KTp3at for summer. Maybe not. And you know what? If the caca struck the blades in pistol land I'd reach for my Sig 220 first! 'Cause I can. It's my preference! :neener:

Sorry for any misspellings of your favorite tools. I might use a different brand! :evil:

HKGuns

March 25, 2005, 09:55 AM

Its pretty much a newbie thing.

Newbies buy them because they are marketed so heavily. Without doing a lot of research, they purchase one and mistakenly think they've purchased "The best"! Only to find out after doing a little research there are better choices in nearly every category. Better polymer choices and better steel choices.

Then, after realizing the mistake they've made, find it necessary to come into gun forums proclaiming there is nothing better than Glock, simply to justify their mistake.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Biker

March 25, 2005, 10:21 AM

I carried a Colt LW Commander for years. It was accurate and fit my hand reasonably well and shot a big bullet. However, the grip was a bit small for me and it was particular about the ammo it digested. Then, circa 1992, I was gun shopping and ran into a G23 at a local gun store. I was already impressed with the .40 SW so I decided to check the Glock out. I found that it fit my hand perfectly and after doing the ol' close your eyes and point it gig, it naturally went to my point of aim.
I bought it and since then have put over 16,000 rounds through it without a single FTF or FTE. That, to me, is a thing of beauty.
Biker

Greymoor

March 25, 2005, 01:47 PM

Hate is too strong a word. I have a dislike for them as I find them more repulsive than a opposum with mange. If I had to have one it would be one of the compacts, 26,27,33. As soon as the barrel and slide get longer their look brings forth a repugnance for them I cannot dispell.

Do they work? . . . Sure.
Accurate? . . . Enough for the job
Reliable? . . . Yup.

But when I reach for one on the dealers case I get the willies and can't bring myself to touch it. :uhoh:

Hate? nah . . . too strong a word. ;)

Bobby Lee

March 25, 2005, 02:58 PM

"Newbies buy them because they are marketed so heavily. Without doing a lot of research, they purchase one and mistakenly think they've purchased "The best"! Only to find out after doing a little research there are better choices in nearly every category. Better polymer choices and better steel choices."

I would like to see what in your opinion is the better choices in "every category"

glocker1911

March 25, 2005, 03:03 PM

If I can get out of a situation with no harm to anyone, great. But if I feel justified in pulling my gun, a "less than lethal pistol whipping" will be tha last thing on my mind. But if I WERE to carry a gun to use as a club, I'd probably pick a Desert Eagle 50AE! :rolleyes:

Seraph

March 25, 2005, 03:21 PM

Well, there's one place we can agree. I would never use my 1911 as a club. If it comes out when I'm meeting someone new, it's gonna go BANG!

HKGuns

March 25, 2005, 03:32 PM

I would like to see what in your opinion is the better choices in "every category"

1. Steel...Better choice, most any SIG, S&W or an HKP7M8.
2. Polymer....Better choice, HK USP, P2000 or perhaps even Springer XD.

Don't make me go into the why's...............Its old territory.

larry starling

March 25, 2005, 03:57 PM

I Dont care for glocks!!!have owned a glock 23 and a 27,didnt care for either!I might be a little biased as I own more 1911's than anything!but my second choice would be a Sig in one form or another over a glock!!!!! ;)

glocker1911

March 25, 2005, 05:46 PM

Here's a basic idea to avoid high blood pressure. If you don't like Glocks, great. Don't buy one and go on with what makes you happy. Since you don't like em, you can skip internet threads concerning Glocks, and we don't have to argue with one another over personal choices. What's perfect for me amy be all wrong for you. Thank God there are so many guns to choose from and that we can still own them. No sense beating each other up this much. Move along folks, nothing to see here! :banghead:

Kurt

March 25, 2005, 06:22 PM

Not so fast there - you - fan of Glocks - you.

I'll be honest - I also can't get past most Glock owners I've met.

I will cut some slack for the truly experienced or professional that chooses a Glock for their primary. It's those rabid and naive others that work towards keeping the image of these guns 1/2 step above Jennings/Raven/RG in stomach turning ability for me.

So many other rivalries (Ford/Chevy, Miller/Coors, Blonde/Brunette/Redhead, Remington/Winchester) have always been accomplished between good natured and mature folks on both sides.

This one is sadly different.

Lobotomy Boy

March 25, 2005, 08:50 PM

Calling "most Glock owners" "rabid" and "naive" people that you "can't get past" speaks more poorly about your character than it does of the character of Glock owners.

Saying that buying Glocks is "a pretty much newbie thing" doesn't speak well of your reading skills. I think anyone reading this thread at a third grade level or higher would see that many, if not most of the pro-Glock folks posting on this thread are very experienced.

Fatelvis

March 25, 2005, 09:25 PM

nico

March 25, 2005, 09:27 PM

Lobotomy Boy has a good point. IMO, a big part of the reason so many new gun owners buy Glocks is because they've "used" them in games like Counterstrike so they think they're the be-all, end-all of gun technology and quality. BUT, the same is true for HK, and you don't see the same level of hatred for them that you often see for Glocks. There are just as many USP fanboys as there are Glock fanboys, but the USP's higher price makes them less likely to be a first gun purchase. Personally, after firing one, I think Glocks are fine for their intended uses. They may not be the prettiest guns, but nobody can argue that they don't work, and if you're really bothered by the lack of a "real safety," (I'll admit it's a major detractor for me), you can have one retrofitted for not a lot of money. Personally, I think I'd rather have a Glock 17 than my Dad's S&W 910 that I shoot a lot.

JohnKSa

March 25, 2005, 09:37 PM

a big part of the reason so many new gun owners buy Glocks is because they've "used" them in games like CounterstrikeWhat a ridiculous comment. Pure speculation & totally unsupportable.

nico

March 25, 2005, 09:39 PM

lol obviously you've never played counterstrike :)

I made a subjective statement based on experiences with people who are dim witted enough to let video games affect their opinions on firearms. I have come across more than one person on other boards and in person who owned, or was thinking about buying a Glock because they saw it in Counterstrike and numerous people who think Glocks and Desert Eagles are the best handguns in existence because of the game. Don't believe me? Fine. After all, this is just the internet.

Gewehr98

March 25, 2005, 10:01 PM

I owned a Glock 17. I tried to like it, really. After about a month, I got rid of it like a bad habit. The nice part was I made back my original investment price on just the spare Glock factory hicap magazines that came with it. I took the money and bought another 1911. So I'm more than entitled to say Glocks aren't the be-all, end-all of handguns.

And I love my 2 AK-47's, BTW. :scrutiny:

Bobby Lee

March 25, 2005, 11:19 PM

There are many experienced people that have owned Glocks since they first came out in the 80's and they have fired many thousands of rounds through their Glocks with NO malfunctions.

From their experience it is hard for them to believe their Glocks are a junk just because some 1911 owner says they are.

Why do some of you assume they have a mental problem if they defend their choice of firearm?

I don't see the problem with that.

I own many different firearms other than Glocks. They all serve me well or I find them another home. I will not keep an unreliable handgun.

JohnKSa

March 25, 2005, 11:20 PM

"more than one person"="so many new gun owners" :rolleyes:

I have no doubt that more than one person has bought a Glock because of a video game or a movie. Saying that video games "a big part of the reason so many new gun owners buy Glocks" is way over the top and completely unsupportable.

I'm willing to bet that more than one person bought 1911 pistols because of the movie "Last Man Standing". But even if that's true, it's not an indictment of the 1911 pistol, nor is it a reason "so many new gun owners have bought 1911 pistols", nor does it reflect badly on 1911 owners.

If ya don't like Glocks then don't buy Glocks. It's real simple. But trying to come up with silly and convoluted reasons why people buy guns you don't like is--well--silly and convoluted...

nico

March 25, 2005, 11:38 PM

Have you read any of my posts in this thread? I said that I liked the one Glock that I've shot and I definitely haven't said anything implying that they're bad guns. My comment wasn't meant as an indictment of Glocks or their owners in general. It was simply an attempt at explaining some of the ignorant hyperbole spouted by some Glock owners about their guns and the resulting resentment by Glock haters.
ie: Some kid who grew up in the city where guns are taboo plays Counterstrike throughout high school, buys a Glock when he's old enough because he thinks it'll defy the laws of physics, thinks his "experience" makes him an expert and mouths off to people who know much more than him, making them resent him. Repeat the scenario a couple times and you have a handful of Glock haters who view all Glock owners the same way as the dumb kid. It's the same type of thinking that creates a market for "barrel extensions" that are supposed to look like silencers.

Seraph

March 26, 2005, 12:19 AM

Glocker and Seraph, you two seem to have the attitude that if you pull your gun, there is no turning back, and no other option other than shooting, someone is going to DIE! You`ve been watching too many westerns and Segal movies. Have fun in prison after a wrongful shooting!
As you were, FatElvis. I won't be drawing my weapon to intimidate or arrest someone. I won't be using it for negotiations. If I don't need it, to save my own life, or another's, I won't draw it at all. If it seems to me that only lethal force will prevent my death or severe injury, then I will draw. If I draw, and my attacker doesn't instantly become a big, fluffy, unarmed CareBear, in the prone, then I will fire. What's your plan, pray tell?

StrikeEagle

March 26, 2005, 12:52 AM

I will say right up front that I have owned over a dozen 1911 pistols and only one (a Para LDA) has ever worked out of the box.

Woah... I won't doubt you, but can you please provide more information here? Exactly what 1911's have you owned? And what exactly were the types of malfunctions you got?

I've owned... off the top of my head...15 or 20 1911's, two of which I built myself from scratch on Essex Frames. I have only had 2 that have failed to perform perfectly right out of the box. And I'm known for using some fairly nasty surplus or homecast ammo.

I love 1911's and am just surprised to hear about this.

best,
StrikeEagle

Fatelvis

March 26, 2005, 10:21 AM

Ser, the fact is, there is no definate plan in the real world. You must let the situation trigger your actions. You have the classic "face to face" confrontation figured out, but there are MANY other situations that happen on the street, home, enclosed space, etc. Do I really have to start dreaming up scenarios?

Seraph

March 26, 2005, 10:40 AM

Fat, none of the near-infinite range of possible scanarios would have me brandishing a gun to make a point, or to negotiate a truce, with my assailant. I presume that anyone I point my pistol at will feel about it the way I would feel about it in their shoes - They would fear for their life, and seek to eliminate the threat. Again, in any of the myriad possible situations in which I might have to use my pistol, my pistol would not be in my hand, were I not in fear for my life. Now, with my pistol pointed at him, my attacker must realise that I am now threatening his life, and I have to assume that if he was willing to kill me before, he is now even more motivated to do so, in defense of his own life. At this point, I would be a fool not to shoot, and shoot to kill, which was the last resort for which I carried and ultimately drew my weapon in the first place. I have no idea where you read that I'm trying to treat this as a martial arts kata, where everything is 1-2-3, kick-block-punch-kiai!!! :confused: Maybe you're just feeling preachy.

Fatelvis

March 26, 2005, 10:51 AM

Maybe, have fun with your Glock.

Seraph

March 26, 2005, 11:05 AM

I don't own a Glock. Attention to detail.

Kurt

March 26, 2005, 12:12 PM

I feel the huge amount of twisted panties I’m seeing here is totally unnecessary.

To me this is really only a self-fulfilling prophesy, but I can't help but notice how way too many of the pro-Glockers have lost complete sight of the title of this thread.

FWIW, I would certainly never get so beside myself if another thread were started that asked why some people hate well-adjusted folks who prefer good, solid sidearms.

medmo

March 26, 2005, 12:56 PM

Why is it a "bad" thing that someone bought a firearm because they thought it was really "cool" after seeing it in some form of media??

Do you have any idea how ultimately "cool" I felt when I finally scraped up enough dough to buy my first S&W Mod. 29 44 mag with a 6" bbl.?? Yes, I thought my "Most Powerful Handgun" defied physics also. Thank you Dirty Harry.

nico

March 26, 2005, 12:58 PM

Why is it a "bad" thing that someone bought a firearm because they thought it was really "cool" after seeing it in some form of media??
it isn't necessarily. What's bad is when someone who does that thinks that owning that gun makes them an expert.

Kurt

March 26, 2005, 01:58 PM

The Model 29 / Dirty Harry analogy doesn’t fit well for me.

It’s most certainly NOT simply an infatuation with Glock pistols that causes one to be suspect. It’s the other accompanying obsessive and possessive qualities that usually sink an individual here, and the fact that there are so MANY such individuals leads us to the much larger problem(s).

It all seems so very basic.

:neener:

Seraph

March 26, 2005, 03:20 PM

I don't have any bone to pick with Glock enthusiasts, I just think they are strange and have no taste in sidearms. As I said, I have a friend who likes Glocks as utilitarian bullet launchers, but he doesn't claim they are the best, or even that they are attractive (in fact, to my amazement, he recently traded that Glock in on a Pre-70 Colt Govt. Model .45). His favorite gun is a blued S&W .357 he got from his father. I merely posted here attempting to relate to the question, "Why all the Glock hate?" Since I don't actually hate Glocks, but merely dislike them, I guess I'm not fully qualified to answer the question in the thread's title. Then again, by the same rationale, the Glock enthusiasts ought to be outright disqualified from testifying on the subject of Glock hate, most of them knowing nothing about it (allowing for those who have a love/hate sentiment toward their Glock). If anyone has gotten sand in their panties, it is because they forgot the question of the thread, or can't tolerate hearing the offered answers to that question.

Biker

March 26, 2005, 03:48 PM

On that note, my preference for Glocks is justified (if it needs to be) by the #1 requirement in Biker's Book of Def. Firearms Rules: It goes bang everytime.
As icing on the cake, it's fairly accurate, carries a generous number of rounds, follows the KISS principle and tolerates low maintainance.
Hey, come ta think of it, that's how I like my women, too! ;)
Biker

Lobotomy Boy

March 26, 2005, 04:37 PM

I would certainly never get so beside myself if another thread were started that asked why some people hate well-adjusted folks who prefer good, solid sidearms.

Sorry Kurt, you seem like a well-adjusted, non-crazy person, but the above quote shows you to be totally off-base on this issue. If you started a thread about why people hate well-adjusted folks who prefer good, solid firearms, you wouldn't see the rabid hatred posted by frothy-mouthed whack jobs that you see when the subject turns to Glock firearms. We Glock enthusiasts aren't being overly sensetive. Read through these posts. If the vitriolic comments directed at Glock fans were spoken about a racial, ethnic, or sexual group, they would be considered terroristic hate crimes. Yet people feel no qualms at all about hurling all forms of bile at us simply because we like Glocks.

I for one am not defending Glock firearms. Glocks do just fine without my help. I am just pointing out the ludicrousness of the arguments used against them, and the immature attitudes of many people making those arguments.

This line of thought has got me wondering--and this is just a thought and not a proposed theory--could the irrational hatred directed towards Glocks be caused by the fact that Glocks are popular in the black community, and that Glock hatred is just racial prejiduce transferred to an inanimate object?

Redneck Revolver

March 26, 2005, 05:46 PM

my personal problem with glocks isnt that they are unreliable or innaccurate, but...well they're ugly...and plastic....call me old fashioned but guns are to be made of wood and metal and wood and metal only. not only that but to me they just seem....i dunno whats the word? they just dont FEEL right in my hands. not just the grip but the fact that its....tainted....of course this is comming from a man who also isnt as fond of beretta as everyone (nothing wrong with them either just not my style)

Kurt

March 26, 2005, 07:08 PM

Racial prejudice as any reason for Glock hate?

Lobotomy Boy, once again about all I can do is just shake my head when I read your stuff.

When I get a mental picture of one of these "special" Glock fans that are on center-stage here, I primarily see an anemic looking adolescent white guy with too many body piercings and tattoos, fluorescent purple hair spikes and wearing tattered black leather and chain whatevers. His t-shirt sayings (and report cards) suggest that he doesn't play well with others. He is relegated to riding a cheap skateboard around town due to the expense of buying his Glock, and by keeping his AR-15 pattern gun in all the current Ninjamousegunstuffandfore-endhanger-ons.

Maybe I don't catch the right movies, or play the necessary PlayStation games, but my thoughts just don't gravitate towards the gangsta's. However, I do get to the range a lot ... and look around during the breaks.

Does that help?

:)

Lobotomy Boy

March 26, 2005, 07:15 PM

I apologize Kurt. I appear to have been completely incorrect in assuming that you are well-adjusted and sane.

Kurt

March 26, 2005, 07:19 PM

Well I do have a reputation to maintain......

;)

Sneaky

March 26, 2005, 08:40 PM

I carried a Glock 23 for quite a while (like 7-8 years) before venturing into other pistols. It never let me down, and I got pretty proficient with it. Not fancy, just worked when I needed it to, and inspired confidence by virtue of it's reliability.

I've since spent some bucks on a Sig 229 in .357SIG, and it rather drastically outclasses my Glock in every respect. It should, for what I paid for it!

That said, I wouldn't go back to the Glock product at this point. I trust the pistol, and it served me very well, but there are many more attractive options out there.

I don't hate Glocks, and certainly have nothing against the men and women that carry them. I do have a problem with closed-minded people who claim it is the 'ultimate semiauto pistol' and refuse to discuss the merits of other pistols in it's class.

coylh

March 26, 2005, 09:01 PM

Redneck Revolver: "but...well they're ugly...and plastic....call me old fashioned but guns are to be made of wood and metal and wood and metal only."

Ok. You're old fashioned.

sixguns

March 26, 2005, 09:21 PM

I remember when Glock's first hit the market and I did not like them for two reasons:

1) They are Ugly!
2) They are made of plastic!

I still to this day don't like them for the same reasons. But I don't hate them. :)

Sneaky

March 26, 2005, 09:44 PM

Sure, they're not very attractive, but they're designed to do an ugly job. I for one won't hold that against them.

But then, I've been described as 'aesthetically challenged.' :p

355sigfan

March 26, 2005, 09:50 PM

I have two kinds of guns. Work guns ( guns I use to protect myself) and fun guns. I like my fun guns to be nice looking. But I don't care what my work guns look like so long as they work.
Pat

Clean97GTI

March 26, 2005, 10:23 PM

No Glock hate here, just no love either.

The grip angle is fine with me, but the shape of the grip doesn't agree with my hand. The only one I can stomach is the G19 simply because the recoil is soft. I've fired the 17 and didn't like it. Recoil was easy, but the shape of the grip didn't work. The G22 was even worse. I've never had a .40cal pistol hurt my hand until that monster. The G20 wasn't terrible because of the large nature of the grip, but the shape is still all wrong. I want to cut the hump off and screw on the backstrap from a P99.
Maybe Robar could help me, but I don't want to buy a gun I hate shooting only to spend more and find out I still don't like it.

Instead of a Glock 19, I'll just pick up another FNP-9 to carry.

If Glocks fit my hands a little better, I'd own several.

glocker1911

March 26, 2005, 10:44 PM

First of all, I didn't buy my Glocks because I was influenced by video games (although bingo, I AM a big gamer), I bought them because of Die Hard 2, and man was I bummed when I found out that WEREN'T made of porcelain in Germany, even though they do "cost more than I make in a month"! :D
Second, on a more serious note, no I do not think if I draw my gun it means I HAVE to shoot it. But if I do draw, it is because the situation is extremely serious, and I guarantee one of the ways it ends WON'T be with me using my gun as a club. If the situation can be handled with THAT level of physical force, my gun wouldn't be out yet. Talk about "enjoy your murder charge", let's see you explain how you were only using your gun to "knock 'em out" and I guess the blow set it off because " I didn't mean to blow their head off."

HKGuns

March 27, 2005, 12:37 AM

That they are "plastic" shouldn't bother anyone, notice a trend in today's gun market? "Plastic" or polymer to use the correct term.

I find that you generally get what you pay for in this world and Glock's are generally inexpensive decent guns. As stated above, they are wholly utilitarian and shoot just fine if you can get beyond a few of their quirks.

There are better made polymer guns on the planet, better made steel guns too. Nothing to get all worked up about.

355sigfan

March 27, 2005, 12:56 AM

I believe Glocks are the absolute best polimer guns on the market. Better than guns costing twice as much. The only steel guns I can think of that are better is custom 1911's. And their only better in some ways. I have tried almost every thing from Sigs, Beretta's, Hk's and custom 1911's and Glocks rank the very best behind only custom 1911's.
Pat

Glock19Fan

March 27, 2005, 01:48 AM

I dont like or hate Glocks...

I love them. :)

I agree that there are better handguns, however, not every handgun fits every hand. Everyone is different in their preferances.

I agree, the grips on the Glocks can be absolutly horrible, but that can be changed for about $8. I have a Hogue slip on grip, which fits my hands perfectly.

I have about 700 rounds through the gun, not including the owner before me, which told me he put around 100. Out of all of these (which really isnt that much), there hasnt been a single problem of any kind.

Its light, tough, and RELIABLE.

Not only that, but I just might be the only person in the world that likes the Glock 19s looks. I dont know why, I just do. I think the 17, 26, and all other similar sized guns are but ugly, but I like the way the G19 looks.

Just my humble opinion.

http://img117.exs.cx/img117/3668/glock3vl.jpg

Krag

March 27, 2005, 10:19 AM

If you push the rationale further, anyone saying that they hate Glocks because they're made from plastic it the type of person who probably believes that smokeless powder is a passing fad. :neener:

Much of the 1911's popularity is based upon the fact that they work and work damn well. Well, in that area 1911s and Glocks are in a dead heat.

I also laugh as those who like to claim the Glock is an inferior pistol because you can't shoot lead bullets out of them. Well I shoot lead bullets out of all my full sized Glocks. You buy a drop in aftermarket barrel and blaze away creating all the lead fumes you want. You will pay for the barrel within a year of shooting lead reloads for practice. And before they start complaining about having to buy an extra barrel just think how much the average 1911 owner sinks into aftermarket parts and 'smithing for his pistol. I've been there and done that on eleven out of my dozen 1911s.

There is no such thing as a "perfect" all around handgun. In certain areas the 1911 is better and in others the Glock shines. I'd hate to be limited to only owning one or the other.

Time and technology wait for no man.

Lobotomy Boy

March 27, 2005, 10:27 AM

Liking Glock's does not mean you hate other guns. The third handgun on my "to buy" list is a 1911. The next two are Glocks.

dsk

March 27, 2005, 05:35 PM

One advantage of a Glock over a custom 1911: after the balloon drops, when you're holding the perp at gunpoint, the police will show up and most likely yell for you to drop your gun (after all they may not know who is the bad guy). Which one are you gonna drop, your $450 Glock or your $2000 Ed Brown custom? And which one would you rather leave rusting inside an evidence locker?

This may sound like a joke, but I'm serious. If you even hesitate for a second to drop your cherished toy on the concrete you may get shot by the police. Not only would I gladly drop a Glock I'll even kick it over to them if they demand it. I can always buy another one just like it.

Moral of the story: the gun you use for defense should be reliable and be something you're confident in, but by no means ever look at it as anything but a tool. If you have any emotional attachment to it at all leave it at home in your safe.

Lobotomy Boy

March 27, 2005, 07:34 PM

Great point, dsk. And don't forget the general beating a carry gun receives josltling around inside a holster all day, every day and being locked inside a car or truck when left behind.

Pilot

March 27, 2005, 07:39 PM

The condition and final disposition of my gun after a shooting and police confiscation is going to be the absolute LAST thing on my mind. And, there are a plethora of guns that can take the abuse of every day use and carry.

355sigfan

March 27, 2005, 08:05 PM

2000 is cheap life insurance. If I had to use it I would not be worried about it so much. I can always buy another pistol.
Pat

Old Dog

March 27, 2005, 08:55 PM

Sigh. I swore I wasn't gonna come back to this thread ...

One advantage of a Glock over a custom 1911: after the balloon drops, when you're holding the perp at gunpoint, the police will show up and most likely yell for you to drop your gun (after all they may not know who is the bad guy). Which one are you gonna drop, your $450 Glock or your $2000 Ed Brown custom? And which one would you rather leave rusting inside an evidence locker?

I'm thinking I'm carrying the gun that I train with, the gun that I shoot the most accurately with and the fastest -- my custom 1911, not a Glock 23.

And if it saves my life -- or the life of my wife or one of my daughters, or even another innocent citizen -- my $2000 Ed Brown custom can be lost forever for all I care.

If you have any emotional attachment to it at all leave it at home in your safe.

I'm emotionally attached to ALL my handguns. That's why I no longer own any Glocks.

medmo

March 28, 2005, 01:33 AM

This is still alive???? Just a few thoughts:

"I also laugh as those who like to claim the Glock is an inferior pistol because you can't shoot lead bullets out of them. Well I shoot lead bullets out of all my full sized Glocks. You buy a drop in aftermarket barrel and blaze away creating all the lead fumes you want."

Glock doesn't want you shooting lead bullet because of the polygon rifling. Polygon rifling is cheaper to cut and very accurate with jacketed bullets. All the folks who produce pistols with this type of rifling don't want you running soft lead bullet through them because lead tends to get sticky in them. You might find really hard cast bullets which will be okay but as a general rule they don't want you over pressuring your gun and causing problems due to softer cast bullets. I also don't think anyone makes a bbl that is "drop in". Anyone putting in a after market bbl should have it checked out by somone that is qualified and CERTIFIED.

Why all the Glock Hate?

Because they are either the cheapest, crappiest, non-metal framed pieces of shooting garbarge ever made or it is because they are a Divine Gift from The Lord to Mr. Glock. I tend to think they fall somewhere in between with the rest of the pack.....

Deputy25

March 28, 2005, 05:58 PM

Glock was the low bidder. My employer requires that I carry one. Heck, it isn't half bad :)

TheDutchman

March 29, 2005, 12:39 AM

The Tale of the Four Glocks
Glock foot
Glock leg
Glock Nuts
Glock Kaboom
Do I need to say more

355sigfan

March 29, 2005, 01:53 AM

If any idiot shoots himself with a Glock in the foot, legs or nuts he deserves what he gets. As for the Kaboom its greatly overstated and its more of a 40sw problem than a Glock problem. I have seen KB's in Sigs and know of them happenening with Beretta 96's Hk's and countless other 40's.

Keep your finger off the trigger and you will not shoot yourself.
:banghead:
Pat

FireStar_M40

March 29, 2005, 03:06 AM

In one of your posts you said..

"Glock=No Safety=Bad ... Revolver=No Safety=Good"

First off, you're talking about two different animals.

Revolvers, for the most part, have a hammer.. and in most cases are NOT carried in the cocked position. This, in and by itself, precludes having to have a "safety". In over 40 plus years of being around firearms, I have only observed a revolver being carried once with the hammer being cocked.. and then it was in a holster that had a "safety" strap running between the hammer and the firing pin.

On the other hand, a Glock has a spring loaded firing pin that is in the cocked position and a live round in the chamber, which would compare it to carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked.. and having NO "safety" strap.

So from my perspective what you said is true.. "Glock=No Safety=Bad ... Revolver=No Safety=Good". Don't you agree?

FireStar_M40

Chris Rhines

March 29, 2005, 07:14 AM

On the other hand, a Glock has a spring loaded firing pin that is in the cocked position and a live round in the chamber, which would compare it to carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked.. and having NO "safety" strap. Nope, not quite.

When a Glock pistol has a round in the chamber, the striker is partly cocked. It is under some spring tension, but not enough to ignite a primer. The trigger has to be pulled fully to the rear, which moves the striker the rest of the way back, then releases it.

- Chris

Krag

March 29, 2005, 07:21 AM

Medmo - I did have my 'smith check the three drop-in barrels I bought before I used them. They all fit perfectly and he didn't have to do a thing to them. :)

Lobotomy Boy

March 29, 2005, 07:40 AM

FireStar M40, your argument only holds up for single-action revolvers. Double-action revolvers are even more susceptible to accidental discharges than are Glocks, at least as long as some fool isn't running around with his or her finger on the trigger, because revolvers lack the trigger safety found on a Glock. Yes, if you're waving your gun around with your finger on the trigger like John Travolta in "Pulp Fiction," a Glock is more likely to discharge than a stock double-action revolver because the Glock trigger pull is lighter than most stock double-action revolvers (though I've shot some revolvers with custom hammer springs that have hair triggers), but that is an issue of unsafe gun handling, not gun design.

Ash

March 29, 2005, 08:40 AM

Loboboy, you must explain what makes a double-action revolver more likely to fire than a Glock.

Ash

Lobotomy Boy

March 29, 2005, 09:00 AM

Simple: to fire the Glock trigger you have to press both the trigger and that center bar, the one that hurts your finger. You can't fire a Glock by brushing up against something accidentally pressing the edge of the trigger. You can accidentally fire a double-action revolver that way. I know this is a highly unlikely scenario with either weapon, but it's less likely with a Glock safety trigger than any traditional double-action trigger. I wrote this in response to FireStar M40's post:

Revolvers, for the most part, have a hammer.. and in most cases are NOT carried in the cocked position. This, in and by itself, precludes having to have a "safety". In over 40 plus years of being around firearms, I have only observed a revolver being carried once with the hammer being cocked.. and then it was in a holster that had a "safety" strap running between the hammer and the firing pin.

On the other hand, a Glock has a spring loaded firing pin that is in the cocked position and a live round in the chamber, which would compare it to carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked.. and having NO "safety" strap.

My main point was not that revolvers are more dangerous than Glocks (although they are if you buy into FireStar M40s logic), but that the key is safe gun handling practices--don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

WEPS

March 29, 2005, 09:04 AM

Well if you're mentally challenged and can't understand the basic safety rules then do not buy a Glock or any other striker fired weapon with no external safety.

People and their stupid excuses.

Bobby Lee

March 29, 2005, 01:31 PM

It seems to me that someone with 40 plus years of firearms experience would know the Glock is not a single action.

Lobotomy Boy

March 29, 2005, 01:52 PM

WEPS wrote:

Well if you're mentally challenged and can't understand the basic safety rules then do not buy a Glock or any other striker fired weapon with no external safety.

Good advice. I'd probably add that if you are too mentally challenged to understand basic safety rules you should also probably refrain from buying double-action revolvers, single-action pistols, single-action revolvers, pump-action shotguns, bolt-action rifles, lever-action rifles, single-shot rimfire rifles, pellet guns, sharp objects, baseball bats, volatile chemicals, cigarette lighters... the list goes on and on.

JohnBT

March 29, 2005, 02:26 PM

"Why all the Glock hate?"

Are they still designed to feel like a brick with a trigger? :cuss:

John

Sean Smith

March 29, 2005, 02:29 PM

I've owned a bunch of Glocks. I later found that I shot other designs better. As a result, I got rid of the Glocks. Just a pragmatic decision for me.

They usually work, though their "perfect" reliability is an exaggeration. Kind of like the "1911s are unreliable" tripe. :rolleyes:

Rockstar

March 29, 2005, 02:49 PM

Glocks, like some people, are half-cocked. They're not cocked until the trigger's pulled.

medmo

March 30, 2005, 12:15 AM

Rockstar, I agree that about half of them are half cocked but I also think that about ninety percent of them are half baked.

Krag, it's just the semantics. I wish they wouldn't sell stuff like bbls with labels like "drop in" regardless of the brand of pistol. The thing that really gets under my skin is "high capacity magazines". The ban is dead so now the ones that you can stick more ctgs in are "standard capacity magazines". The annoying ten round magazines are now "restricted" magazines.

Ooops, it is a Glock thread and I didn't mention Glock. There I just did twice. Sorry I went off on a tangent. I have to get back to my baking now and join the ninety percenters again....

jame

March 30, 2005, 12:35 AM

I dumped my 23 because it lacked class,....soul.

As a sevice type wepon, I think it's great. I just want to carry something with more style than a S&W model 10.

Glocker

March 30, 2005, 06:15 AM

If you want to run with the big dogs, carry a GLOCK. If you carry anything else you might as well stay on the porch with the old dogs :neener:

Ash

March 30, 2005, 09:12 AM

Well, I have a sense of humor, but Glocker, you merely parrot what is so oft spoken not in jest.

Lobo, you're wrong about Glocks being safer. DA revolvers have heavier (albeit smoother) and longer trigger pulls. It is far more likely that something pulls directly on a trigger (and thus negating the Glock safety, and is, by the way, the chief cause of Glock ND's out there) than grazing its side. Your claim is theoretical but not based in fact. A revolver can be safely carried in a pocket. A Glock cannot by any means be safely carried that way. The holster, with trigger covered, is part of the safety.

You see, such unsupportable claims, wildly made, give Glockomaniacs such a poor rep. It also causes a bleed-over effect against the handgun itself. Disdain for Glocks is far more a product of worshipers at the altar of Glock than of Glock pistols themselves.

Ash

Lobotomy Boy

March 30, 2005, 05:33 PM

Ash,

And your claim that the it is far more likely that something will pull directly on the trigger rather than grazing its side is supported by...? If you want to disdain someone for making unsupported claims, you might want to look in the mirror.

Ash

March 30, 2005, 05:48 PM

By the sheer volume of ND's revolver versus automatic.

Or, to put it another way, what fool would carry a Glock in his pocket? That method of carry was perfectly safe with revovlers since the 1880's when revolvers began to be offered in double action. For that matter, any DAO auto, such as CZ or Beretta, are safer than Glocks due to their heavier trigger pull. They exist because they replicate the pull on a revolver. Glocks do not. Glock, specifically, considers the holster to be a safety device.

Look, there is no need for this to devolve anymore. Loboboy, you are more than welcome to your opinions. For the record, the bulk of fellows here are not Glockites, Glock-o-maniacs, or any other witty epithets. Those terms are reserved for the mall-ninjas who seem so often to frequent gunshows.

Read my posts regarding the dislike of such folks. As to broad statements, you will find I counter you when you cannot substantiate your statements such as Glocks being safer than revolvers.

Ash

Marshall

March 30, 2005, 10:04 PM

Heck, they're a nice pistol for what they were designed to be.

I don't own one, I went XD instead for a plastic pistol, mainly for the grip angle, feel and grip safety. But, I see nothing wrong with Glocks and this bad mouthing of them is really pretty funny. I've never met a gun I didn't like, at least a little bit.

I'm willing to bet that if those that despise Glocks were given a new one for free, they would keep it. They might not admit it, but they would keep it. ;)

A little G26 might even end up under my ownership someday? :scrutiny:

Oh yea, I'm plenty secure enough to own a Glock, or any pistol, and not be worried of being defined by others that have bought them or the owner of company that makes them. :rolleyes: ;)

vwfool

March 30, 2005, 10:58 PM

I don't have a problem with the looks, but the feel of them is terrible. :barf:

For me personally, there is no way I would buy a Glock after handling and firing my dad's two XD's.

With that said, and at the risk of sounding like an old man trapped in a sub-30 year old body, I still carry a Kimber 1911 more than anything else.

TO EACH HIS OWN. :cool:

FireStar_M40

March 30, 2005, 11:59 PM

Bobby Lee.. you said, "It seems to me that someone with 40 plus years of firearms experience would know the Glock is not a single action".

Well you're right. I've re-counted the years and I actually have 52 or 53 years.. that is if you count the first time I started shooting with a J. C. Higgens single shot, bolt action .22 rifle, which I think was at the age of 8 or 9. But that's neither here nor there.

I, (unlike you, who quite obviously by your remark must be a expert on Glocks) am the first one to admit I know very little about the inner workings of Glocks. The reason.. "I don't own a Glock, want a Glock, could care less about a Glock, etc., etc." So from my perspective, it doesn't matter to me whether a Glock is single, double, triple or a no action at all type pistol.

The "general" point I was trying to make was done so very well by "Ash" in his comments. Like he said.. "revolvers have been carried naked in pockets for the past 100 years with very little problems". While on the other hand, how many of you would want to carry a Glock in your pocket the same way?

FireStar_M40