OH NO!!! Another shooting spree :(


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P95Carry
March 21, 2005, 07:37 PM
Just in .... haven't chased up details yet .........

-- Six people died and up to 12 were wounded when a student went on a shooting rampage in Minnesota, a fire official said. Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com for the latest news.

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Kamicosmos
March 21, 2005, 07:38 PM
I just saw this too:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/school.shooting.ap/index.html

P95Carry
March 21, 2005, 07:40 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/school.shooting/index.html

(CNN) -- A student killed his grandparents before going on a shooting rampage, killing five and wounding as many as 12 at his northern Minnesota high school Monday, a fire official said.

Killed at Red Lake High School were four students, a teacher and a security guard, said Roman Stately, with the Red Lake Fire Department. The shooter is believed to be among the four dead. "Apparently, he walked down the hallway shooting and then he entered a classroom, he shot several students and a teacher, then himself," said Stately, who arrived at the high school moments after the shots rang out.

Authorities discovered an hour later that the boy had shot and killed his grandparents, taking the service weapon of his grandfather, a policeman, Stately told KARE-TV. "Everything is shut down," said Chief Deputy Tom Lyons of the Beltrami County Sheriff's Office.

The shootings occurred about 3 p.m. (4 p.m. ET), in Red Lake High School, a school of 300 student that is on a sovereign Indian reservation within Beltrami County, about 25 miles north of Bemidji, a town of about 25,000 residents, many of them Ojibway Indians, he said.

The school is about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities, near the Canadian border.

Dionysusigma
March 21, 2005, 07:47 PM
Time to ban schools, as shootings happen there all the time. :rolleyes:

Where were his parents?

And is it just me, or do the numbers seem off?

4 students
+1 shooter
+1 teacher
+1 Security guard
= 7 total dead (Not including the grandparents, since two elderly people don't seem to count as part of a shooting spree). :mad:

Standing Wolf
March 21, 2005, 08:11 PM
See? That just proves we need to ban those terrible .50 caliber rifles that can shoot down airliners from 17 miles away.

WillBrayJr
March 21, 2005, 08:37 PM
From what I read, his parent were dead. He appearently killed them before going on the shooting spree. If only people were mature and responsible.

DWS1117
March 21, 2005, 08:44 PM
My prayers go out to the families of those involved.

I have yet to see what weapon was used, but my money is one something on the evil list.

I know it is premature but this sure feels like a precursor to AWB 2.0. :fire: :banghead: :cuss:

Slater
March 21, 2005, 08:49 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old (OK, I'm 44), but growing up in the 1960's and 70's, I can't recall a single school shooting (or workplace either, that made headlines, anyway). Hell, that was when you could buy an AR-15 at Woolworth's.

What's with these %#!* losers today? Mommy not hug them when they were little? Maybe it's the rap music :D

Grey54956
March 21, 2005, 08:50 PM
Report that shooter's grandfather was a LEO, and that the shooter may have used the grandfather's weapons.

Should LEO firearms be banned?

EasternShore
March 21, 2005, 08:56 PM
If I read correctly it was his Grandfather's service weapon, his Grandfather was an LEO appearently. Not that it matters.

DWS I think you nailed it, this on the heals of the AWB of 05 is certain to rally the anti crowd, worse yet it puts more folks on their side. This will be thrown around by the anti crowd as a reason to protect the children, once again not that it would matter what type of firearm it is.

Man this breaks my heart anymore, the loss of life and the fact that my immeadiate reaction was not one of sorrow but one of anger at the set back this will create for gun rights. :banghead: I know it sounds horrible but I just can't grieve for some one I never met, not when it is something I see everyday anymore.

I do however still get angry that they anti gun socially sensitive crowd in this nany state will blame the tool. :cuss: I see DC news everyday, not just the shootings but the machete attacks that are popular with MS13, the beatings and muggings, and it gets ignored :scrutiny: but one shooting and here we go again "BAN THEM FOR THE CHILDREN!!!"

Sorry for the rant I am going to get a drink, a very stiff tall drink... :(

TallPine
March 21, 2005, 08:57 PM
"Apparently, he walked down the hallway shooting and then he entered a classroom, he shot several students and a teacher, then himself," said Stately, who arrived at the high school moments after the shots rang out.
Apparently, he didn't notice the sign that said "No Weapons" on his way in the door either ... :rolleyes:

DWS1117
March 21, 2005, 09:11 PM
Easternshore:

Man this breaks my heart anymore, the loss of life and the fact that my immeadiate reaction was not one of sorrow but one of anger

I know exactly how you feel. When I heard this on the radiowhile driving home from work my initial reaction was anger over how this is going to get twisted against gun owners.

I bet DiFi is doing a happy dance because this may be the "ammo" she needs to take away our guns again.

Maybe I'm just getting old (OK, I'm 44), but growing up in the 1960's and 70's, I can't recall a single school shooting (or workplace either, that made headlines, anyway). Hell, that was when you could buy an AR-15 at Woolworth's.

I am not that old (33) and went to school in the mid to late 80's. We had M1 Garands for the ROTC color guard and drill team. They were the real deal. No plugged barrels, cut receivers, or wood things coverd in tape. We used to practice our 21 gun salutes firing blanks on the school lawn. Never had any problems.

Even when I was in school if some kids had a problem with each other it was settled with skin and everyone crowded aroung encouraging them.

molonlabe
March 21, 2005, 09:26 PM
How many acts of violence does a child see before he is an adult? Oops, Hollywood can't be a fault here they just give us what we want.

I say we reap what we sow. people need to be taught to kill.

Old NFO
March 21, 2005, 09:31 PM
Latest update (per Fox News at 9:20 EST), it "appears" the Grandfather was a cop and his guns were used or contributed to the shooting spree. Total appears to be both grands, 3 students, 1 security, 1 female teacher and himself. There appears to be some question as to the number injured, but may be 15 persons. This is truly sad...

CentralTexas
March 21, 2005, 09:35 PM
that the kid was on Prozac or Accutane for acne. Hide and wait. The good news is he didn't have any thing that could be called an assault weapon.
CT

Grey54956
March 21, 2005, 09:36 PM
I also find that my first emotional response to this event is anger.

I am upset that this will probably be used to drive anti-gun legislation, even though the weapon involved belonged to a LEO or retired LEO. But, the obvious conclusion for the anti crowd is to work towards banning private ownership, not banning LEO weapons. Kind of like the Nichols rampage... overpower and steal weapon from deputy, but no one is calling for a LEO weapon ban.

No, somehow this will twist into a new attack on evil, black guns or something like that.

And while I feel bad for the victims in this crime, I also feel angry that they were unfortunate enough to be in a victim disarmament zone as required by law.

One has to wonder about the security guard who was shot and killed. Was the security guard armed? If not, what the heck kind of security can he provide? Seeing as he is dead, obviously not an awful lot.

I notice that a lot of students and teachers called police or parents for help. I am not certain that a cell phone can provide an awful lot of protection against a shooter who is wandering around a school. Maybe if the phone was made of steel plate and was at least a few feet wide and a yard or two tall. Calling the police when a madman is on the prowl is like calling the coastguard when your 30 miles off shore, your boat is sunk, and your surrounded by sharks: not much to do but wait to see who gets there first.

I also have to wonder just what kinds of drugs, prescription or otherwise, the shooter was on. Anyone want to bet he was on some form of prescription anti-depressant or other personality altering drug?

This kind of thing makes me think that home schooling may not be so bad.

CentralTexas
March 21, 2005, 09:43 PM
These kinds of things have always gone on...

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/bath/index_1.html
Year-1927!

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html
Year-1874!

mr.trooper
March 21, 2005, 09:45 PM
I noticed that they are now stating the LEO weapon as a fact.

:( I just know this is ging to come down to "ban the guns!"

Nevermind the endless hours of violence that our children are fed from the time there little kids, nevermind the fact that they are never disciplined, nevermind the fact that they are never taught any respect, nevermind the fact that we pump them full of unstable drugs for eveory sigh and hickup...its all about the guns :(

CentralTexas
March 21, 2005, 09:53 PM
about this and I will say "Too bad we aren't as smart as the Israelis and let teachers carry guns, then the body count would have been a lot less"
CT

Burt Blade
March 21, 2005, 09:57 PM
In this incredibly weird world of ours, we create centers where hundreds of helpless innocent people are congregated, unguarded by law, and then wonder why monsters go there for their orgies of slaughter.

The blood of those innocents is on the hands of those who disarmed any who might have saved them. Blood is on _their_ hands, as surely as if they had killed them, themselves.

For they _did_.

And damn them all for it. Damn them all. Never forget that those who want guns banned, restricted, registered, or "controlled" will happily throw the corpses of _your_ children on the pyres of their own arrogant stupidity.

As the news of the latest school shooting unfolds, advocates of victim disarmament are rubbing their hands and gleefully planning use of the whirlwind they reaped for us, to make all of us as helpless as those poor murdered children. They are going to tell us, again, that making _all_ decent people helpless will somehow make the murderous monsters into harmless sheep.

We put armed men in armored trucks to keep pieces of colorful paper and base metal disks from being stolen. We accept that any who work in our schools enforce a wide open helplessness of our most precious assets, our children. This is insane. Worse, this is _evil_.

The Rabbi
March 21, 2005, 09:58 PM
NONE of this woulda happened if they re-authorized the AWB. :rolleyes:

P95Carry
March 21, 2005, 09:59 PM
"Too bad we aren't as smart as the Israelis and let teachers carry guns, then the body count would have been a lot less" CT - true but - have to say ''Could'' rather than ''would''. There would at least have been a greater chance that things could have been contained and reduced in severity.

Chances are - any CCW would have to have reacted real quick - but almost certainly ''could'' have reduced the body count. The need for school CCW is IMO ever more pressing - but I won't hold my breath!

Thing is - there is a need for MORE guns in schools - not less or none. I wish ''they'' would see the logic of this.

ZeroX
March 21, 2005, 10:04 PM
Since it was his grandfather's service gun, it was almost definitely a revolver. Meaning that no one took the initiative to go after him during any of his reloads. Even not knowing specifics, that's almost as sad (and maddening) as the whole situation itself. Of course, it's hard to say anything at this point other than the anti's clamoring to prepare their dastardly plans.

WillBrayJr
March 21, 2005, 10:19 PM
Some people are just natual born killers :fire: The kid was grinning and laughing while shooting. He would have killed people eventually anyway, even if he didn't have acess to firearm. He would have just used something else like a chainsaw or an ax. The Kid was a bad apple from the get-go!

one45auto
March 21, 2005, 10:25 PM
I don't think we'll see any great push for additional gun control, at least not until the Democrats regain either the Presidency or control of congress. Just the same, knowing how these incidents provide grist for the gun-grabbers mill, it makes me want to run up my charge card buying the guns I want now - while I still can.

JayJ
March 21, 2005, 11:03 PM
Clearly a trajedy in every sense - for those who've lost their lives and those families that must go forward with the loss of loved ones. Senseless.....

Access, Access, Access.............this crime is a case of poor gun storage. Not that different than leaving your car keys available for your pre-driving age teens to gain access and harm someone.

LiquidTension
March 21, 2005, 11:08 PM
Local station is saying 10 dead now. Just saw something that said he had some pistolS and a shotgun. Ah, and now we cut to the Jacko trial :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, do Reservations have different gun laws than the rest of the country? I know their drug laws are different....

lwaldron
March 21, 2005, 11:16 PM
I'm sitting in the newsroom, watching a live feed of WCCO's 10p newscast. Word from Red Lake is that the kid had a shotgun and several of his grandfather's pistols.

ZeroX
March 21, 2005, 11:24 PM
I'm sitting in the newsroom, watching a live feed of WCCO's 10p newscast. Word from Red Lake is that the kid had a shotgun and several of his grandfather's pistols.

Never mind my post then.

lwaldron
March 21, 2005, 11:34 PM
I thought I heard "pistol", but it could just as well have been "handgun". Most of the people in my biz (TV news) don't know the difference between a revolver or a pistol (semi-auto).

carnaby
March 22, 2005, 12:00 AM
I think the gun control dim-wits will keep quiet on this because it involved LEO firearms. How can they possibly use this to their advantage? It doesn't involve gunstores, gunshow loopholes, cop-killer ammo, assault weapons (at least as would be affected by an AWB), or any of their other crap. The rank and file in LEO, I presume, don't want the Brady's dictating to them, and so the "Chiefs of Police" and such organizations don't want to hear any BS from the Brady's about requiring officers to store their personal weapons locked up.

It's a dead issue.

greyhound
March 22, 2005, 12:18 AM
I wonder how much recent events (Atlanta & Wisconsin church) play into the mind of folks like this kid.

Sometimes it seems like our national 24 hour a day news channels do not help what in the past what might be only a local story.

Not to excuse the actions of the "suspects" in these cases but they WOULD seem to excuse (re: Philly "CCW ban" nonsense) overall law abiding gun ban proposals as opposed to the MUCH MORE DIFFICULT examining of why some citizens use guns or any other weapon/means to act out on their problems.

It appears to be a modern thing, yet maybe it happened in the past but wasn't trumpeted to the masses as "the latest national story".

S_O_Laban
March 22, 2005, 01:02 AM
Burt Blade wrote:

In this incredibly weird world of ours, we create centers where hundreds of helpless innocent people are congregated, unguarded by law, and then wonder why monsters go there for their orgies of slaughter.

The blood of those innocents is on the hands of those who disarmed any who might have saved them. Blood is on _their_ hands, as surely as if they had killed them, themselves.

For they _did_.

And damn them all for it. Damn them all. Never forget that those who want guns banned, restricted, registered, or "controlled" will happily throw the corpses of _your_ children on the pyres of their own arrogant stupidity.

As the news of the latest school shooting unfolds, advocates of victim disarmament are rubbing their hands and gleefully planning use of the whirlwind they reaped for us, to make all of us as helpless as those poor murdered children. They are going to tell us, again, that making _all_ decent people helpless will somehow make the murderous monsters into harmless sheep.

We put armed men in armored trucks to keep pieces of colorful paper and base metal disks from being stolen. We accept that any who work in our schools enforce a wide open helplessness of our most precious assets, our children. This is insane. Worse, this is _evil_.


Excellent post, well said. Most of what I was thinking.

GunnySkox
March 22, 2005, 01:52 AM
I'm so.. so.. enraged when things like this happen! I dunno how to really convey what I think, I'm sort of.. seeing red, at the moment, but I'll copy and paste what I typed [edited, of course] to a friend on AIM about the whole thing.

"[Deity-related expletives]! What is with all the "shooting rampages" in the last two months?! There've been, like, four!

What the hell is wrong with people in this country?!

There was only ever ONE serious school-attack-thing before the eighties and nineties, and that was in the 20s or 30s by some crazy [freak] in the middle of [absolutely] nowhere, and he wired the whole place up with bombs, he wasn't, like, a student, he was this middle-aged guy with a beef against the town because they did something to his land, or something.

And now, in the nineties and early two-thousands, there have been, what, fifteen or twenty?!

They should just give a shottie to every teacher in every highschool, and then, when some piss-ant [idiot] who can't deal with being teased ((note: I know I'm oversimplifying, but I'm angry, c'mon)) brings his daddy's shotgun to school, the teachers just paint the little [---] all over the lockers, and when the news crews get there, they broadcast footage of that little [---]'s torn, splattered corpse on every channel. Let all our little homebrew psychopaths get a nice, full-size view of what you get when you [screw] with the school-system."

*wheeze, wheeze*
~Slam_Fire

chris in va
March 22, 2005, 02:41 AM
Like I've said before, your average public teacher in no way should be allowed access to firearms from what I've seen over the years. However I believe certain individuals in the school that have proven their competence with arms/mental stability should be granted use in case of emergency, maybe in an arms locker, etc. Even taser use would be *something*.

Schools are considered sacred ground to every parent in America. Why aren't they better defended?

Bobothebigdog
March 22, 2005, 04:06 AM
My high school had an on campus deputy and an armed parole officer. They also trained for this type of event every couple years with paintguns, flashbangs, smoke, etc… Still, you can’t stop a student if he's determined to wreck havoc without looking for the signs. Every school shooting i've heard about has one thing in common. They always tell someone. If people would just take students seriously things like this wouldn't happen.

KaliforniaSerf
March 22, 2005, 04:38 AM
An issue I have with school shootings is the lack of help these students have and the lack of pity they receive. When I was in high school teachers cared more about their pay then the well being of they're students. These students who result to shooting people are depressed and feel that they have no where to go. It’s not that their evil, they just feel like making all the people who wronged them feel their pain. (Ever saw the movie Carrie?) That’s why I think that it’s not the students fault. They're sick and they need help. When I was in high school I didn't have many friends but the thought of taking out the people who made my life a living hell wasn't something I wanted to. So instead of staying in the environment that poisoned me, I left and started a new life, which is exactly what this poor boy should have done.

ckyllo
March 22, 2005, 07:09 AM
I would bet that this will take the wind out of Minnesota getting Shall Issue back. even if we get it back schools are still off limits for CCW. Slimestien will still use this to push the AW ban if one gun has a mag that holds more than 10 shots. she will just not mention that they are LE guns that were used. since when have the facts ever been used by the anti crowd all they use is emotional BS.
edit to add:
remember the Long Island RR shooting that was used as one of the reasons for the 94 AW ban? because he had a 15 shot mag in the pistol used. from what I remember at awbansunset.com was that the shooter had only one 15 shot mag and was on his 3rd time of reloading the mag when he was stopped. but that bit if info never made it in the news. why would this be any different?

LaEscopeta
March 22, 2005, 08:11 AM
Dionysusigma wrote “Where were his parents?”

This morning’s paper claims his father committed suicide 4 years ago and his mother is in a nursing home with brain damage caused by a car accident.

I’m thinking he is of the age when he would start to notice northern Minnesota doesn’t have a lot of employment prospects. And late March is still winter up there.

None of this is an excuse his actions, but that’s a lot for any 17 year old to bear. He does not have to bear it anymore, but he created a lot of grief for a lot of other people to have to bear. For those people this tragedy will live on for ever.

El Tejon
March 22, 2005, 08:14 AM
Thank Goodness no one fought back, otherwise someone could have been hurt. :rolleyes:

With the anniversary of Columbine approaching I would anticipate more copycats coming out of the woodwork. Good thing the media is beating the drum to encourage the mad dogs. :uhoh:

garrettwc
March 22, 2005, 09:05 AM
El Tejon, though sarcastic, your first statement bears some semblance to the actual events.

One interview I read with a student in the room where the shooting happened told the reporter she heard gunshots and told her teacher. The teachers response? "Oh, that's just the janitors doing something."

We have to change the sheeple mentality.

Waitone
March 22, 2005, 09:28 AM
Speaking of sheeple, I read one report that said teachers herded the students from room to room trying to get away from the shooting. :fire: Why do I have mental images of trenches and Nazis and Jews. :cuss:

Safe to say we'll see the usual suspects serve up the usual solutions to the same problems. I think it advisable some gun rights activists in the state make a list of the laws the kid violated on the way into the school. Then make a list of the laws he violated while shooting in the school. Have those two lists served up and ready for a fax storm to the news outlets when they start the usual mantra.

Next stop? A terrorist hit on an American school. It will happen.

El Tejon
March 22, 2005, 09:33 AM
garrett, my first comment was shamelessly stolen from Jeff Cooper speaking of the Louisville, KY shooting which was inspired by the Stockton, CA shootings. The killers do this because no one fights back.

The solution: fight back. However, in the Age of the Wimp, denial of the real world does not offend feelings. Feelings are far more important than living. :rolleyes:

mjb
March 22, 2005, 09:37 AM
Well if we confiscated all guns except from criminals, and we banned any type of dicispline for juveniles, and let them have anything that they want, the kid wouldn't get so upset to shoot people. :rolleyes:
I hate it when people will not take responsibility for their actions. When my dad was growing up in the 40's and 50's, there were less gun laws, more discipline, and less crime from juveniles.

XLMiguel
March 22, 2005, 09:42 AM
Well, given that everything the kid did was already illegal, starting with stealing grandfather's guns, the argument that more 'gun control' is needed doesn't hold water. But then again, when have the anti's ever needed or responded to logic? Criminals do what crimnals do, including ignoring laws.

Very sad event in any case.

kfranz
March 22, 2005, 09:47 AM
I think that it’s not the students fault.

Yes it is.

q102josh
March 22, 2005, 10:28 AM
another example of how brilliant victim disarmament is. if teachers were armed in schools, and schools were not off limits for CCW (meaning students with CCW could carry in school), then this kind of thing could be easily prevented.

standingbear
March 22, 2005, 10:33 AM
I hate it when people will not take responsibility for their actions. When my dad was growing up in the 40's and 50's, there were less gun laws, more discipline, and less crime from juveniles. I agree.

the zero tolerance crap didnt stop it, making it a gun safe zone didnt stop it,laws against juveniles having guns didnt stop it, none of the current laws stopped it. the schools cant do this or that now because it offends someone-"johnny" has to taught to be politically correct now.

The parents were gone,who was there to help this kid deal with his problems? Nobody taught him responsability, nobody worked with this kid and nobody bothered to reach this kid.More gun laws is not whats needed and more laws will never solve problems like this.

yup, I remember the days when I went to school as well, things have changed.

W Turner
March 22, 2005, 10:33 AM
I work with troubled teens, some of them with borderline IQ's and even the most thuggish, POS, never-going-to-be-anywhere-but-in-a-government-insititution-for-the-rest-of-their-life knows that it's wrong to kill.

They know the differences between right/wrong, life/death, fantasy/reality.

Unless the kid was actively psychotic at the time of the shooting then he is 100% responsible for his actions.



W

Langenator
March 22, 2005, 12:12 PM
Even if you allow guns in school and MN had shall-issue CCW, you're not going to see students with pistols in the classroom, for the simple reason that this is high school, not college, and no state that I know of will give a CCW permit to someone under 18. Teachers might have them, maybe. And maybe if guns were allowed, and it were deer season up there, you'd have a ton of 4x4s with deer rifles in gun racks in the parking lot.

If the grabbers take anything from this, I predict it will be stricter safe-storage laws, since apparently the kid was using his grandfather's LEO firearms. Although I haven't seen any info on how exactly the grandfather and grandfather's girlfriend (yes, that's right-I'm guessing the grandfather was in his late 40s) were killed.

From some reports I've read, there were signs, although a lot of them would have described half the artist-types in my high school. Into Goth, dressed in black, liked to draw pictures of things like skeletons and write about death. The art section in my high school paper was filled almost completely with drawings of Death, demons, etc, with poems on the same topics, plus the general awfulness of life as a middle class white kid in suburbia.

Now, the fact that he hung out on Nazi internet bulletin boards, posting as NativeNazi and Todesengel (Angel of Death, in German), and professing admiration for Hitler, and threatening to shoot up the school on Hitler's birthday, that maybe should have been looked into.

RomanKnight
March 22, 2005, 12:20 PM
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/teen_rampage_leaves_10_dead.htm

Teen who killed 9 reportedly admired Hitler
Minnesota School Shooter on Neo-Nazi Web Sites

Let's ban guns! :cuss: :fire: :mad: :eek: :barf:

Andrew Rothman
March 22, 2005, 12:41 PM
http://startribune.com/stories/462/5306709-2.html

*No motive has been given for the shooting. But the Associated Press reports today that an Internet search brought up the name of Jeff Weise of Red Lake on a Web site www.nazi.org. In the Web posts, Weise expresses admiration for Adolf Hitler and calls himself the "Angel of Death." The messages were posted last year on a Web site operated by the Libertarian National Socialist Green Party.

Great.

You can read his posts on the Nazi board here: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Dlr86foA5hcJ:www.nazi.org/current/forum/YaBB.cgi%3Fboard%3Dnativeamerican%3Baction%3Dprint%3Bnum%3D1079672948+%22Jeff+Weise%22++%22Red+Lake%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a

They may pull it from Google, so here it is:
I've bolded his posts.

This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.nazi.org/current/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=nativeamerican;action=print;num=1079672948 as retrieved on Nov 2, 2004 16:13:40 GMT.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current page without highlighting.
This cached page may reference images which are no longer available. Click here for the cached text only.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Dlr86foA5hcJ:www.nazi.org/current/forum/YaBB.cgi%3Fboard%3Dnativeamerican%3Baction%3Dprint%3Bnum%3D1079672948+%22Jeff+Weise%22++%22Red+Lake%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a

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Nationalist Forums (http://www.nazi.org/current/forum/YaBB.cgi)
Nationalism >> Native American Nationalists >> Native American Nationalists?
(Message started by: Todesengel on Mar 19th, 2004, 12:09am)



Title: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Todesengel on Mar 19th, 2004, 12:09am Hello all.
My name is Jeff Weise, a Native American from the Red Lake "Indian" reservation in Minnesota. I'm interested in joining the group, as I support your ideals and even though I am young, I still want to join. What is the age requirement (if any)?

Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?

Post by BlueEyedDevil on Mar 19th, 2004, 12:29am
on 03/19/04 at 00:09:08, Todesengel wrote:
Hello all.
My name is Jeff Weise, a Native American from the Red Lake "Indian" reservation in Minnesota. I'm interested in joining the group, as I support your ideals and even though I am young, I still want to join. What is the age requirement (if any)?


There is none that I am aware of; we welcome all ages and all nationalities, regardless of your back-ground. Our main goal here is to educate and inform--in hopes of creating a better world for all of us. I welcome you, Jeff! What brings you to the forum?

Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Todesengel on Mar 19th, 2004, 1:15am Thank you.
What brings me to the forum? Well, I stumbled across the site in my study of the Third Reich as well as Nazism, amongst other things. I guess I've always carried a natural admiration for Hitler and his ideals, and his courage to take on larger nations. I also have a natural dis-like for communism.

When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were (are) evil and that Hitler was a very evil man ect... Of course, not for a second did I believe this. Upon reading up on his actions, the ideals and issues the German Third Reich adressed, I began to see how much of a lie had been painted about them. They truly were doing it for the better.

It kind of angers me how people pass pre-judgement on someone if they even so much as say something like "I support what Hitler did," without even hearing what you have to say. This goes double if you're ethnic. I also hear things like, "oh he had syphilis, he was crazy and thats why he did what he did." Or, "he molested his neice," it's easy to see that even today people are trying to destroy the image of a man who deserves great respect...


Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?

Post by BlueEyedDevil on Mar 20th, 2004, 12:39am I respect your open-mindedness; not everyone is so brave to think the way you do. I have to admit...it took me a long time to drop the taboos' enough to view it all with a clear mind. It's kind of funny, how you think you can know all there is to know about something, then come to find out you don't really know as much as you thought you did. I'm glad I took the time to research the topic a little further, my life has never been the same way since. In a way, you could say the LNSG has given me new hope and new purpose; sheding light on things in my life that were unclear to me before; now can be viewed with the utmost perfection. I would like to see all Nationalists work together towards a common goal; there is much we can learn from one another.
Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by freenation on Mar 25th, 2004, 5:01pm There is a place for you, I hope you stick with us.

Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Todesengel on Mar 25th, 2004, 8:27pm Once I commit myself to something, I stay until the end...


Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by binarymike on Apr 8th, 2004, 2:43pm We welcome you, brother. It will take many combined minds for us to unite, and forge something out of nothing!
Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Ravensburg on Apr 14th, 2004, 2:34pm BLUT & EHRE!

Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Todesengel on Apr 19th, 2004, 11:41pm Hmn, after a recent discussion with some misinformed people I had to ask you guys, why are people so close minded?

By the way, I'm being blamed for a threat on the school I attend because someone said they were going to shoot up the school on 4/20, Hitlers birthday, and just because I claim being a National Socialist, guess whom they've pinned?


He beat the rush and did it on 3/21 this year.

Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by atem on May 2nd, 2004, 11:12am This is a time in which nationalists are demonized. Much as "terrorist" indicates "someone who disagrees with our global empire," so does "nationalist," but the complexity of separating that term from "patriot" will confuse the general population, so they use simple words like hate, Hitler, bigot, ant-semite, etc.

Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Todesengel on May 26th, 2004, 2:27am You encounter a lot of hostility when you claim to be a National Socialist, but because of my size and appearance people don’t give me as much trouble as they would if I looked weak. I already had a fist fight with a communist not to long ago over me being what I am (I also won), but it was worth it. I don’t try to hide what I am from anyone, if they’re going to start something over it then fine, I’m not backing down; Nor am I hiding. I try not to be aggressive in most situations, I’ll use force if I have to, but I’m not about to go out and pick a fight. I’m mostly defensive, I’ll defend myself if someone tries something but other than that I’m a peaceful person.

But the school threat passed and I was cleared as a suspect, I’m glad for that. I don’t much care for jail, I’ve never been there and I don’t plan on it.

Either way, I was wondering if there was a way to become a more active member, besides posting on this board I can’t really think of anything else to do. I could do some recruiting, but a lot of the people I socialize with are against Nazism whole-heartedly, I managed to sway a few opinions in the favor of the movement none the less, and there is also a few of my “friends” who only like Hitler because they think Nazi’s are “cool.” Which I agree with, don’t get me wrong, but they aren’t as serious about it as I am.

Any ideas?


I may young, but I’m willing to help.
Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Somberlain on Jul 19th, 2004, 4:39am Hello NativeNazi,

I find the idea of a Native American National Socialist rather interesting, as I have never heard of one before now. I have several questions for you. First off, what would a typical person on your reservation think of racial consciousness or racial nationalism? From what I read, it sounds like your ideas are greatly opposed, which sort of suprises me, as I thought that American Indians weren't as poisoned by political correctness as the rest of the US population. It also seemed to me that American Indians have a lot of racial pride and wouldn't let their race die.

I am also curious what the boundaries of (a) Native American NS state(s) would be like. Would there be a state for each tribe (if so, would they be situated on current reservations?), for each cultural/linguistic group, or would there be a single American Indian state?

Lastly, in what way(s) do you feel Jewish power has affected the lives of Native Americans in general? I look forward to reading answers to these questions. Thanks for your time.
Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by NativeNazi on Jul 19th, 2004, 11:33am Apparently a lot of people have never heard of a Native American National Socialist, which surprises me.

I think most people on this Reservation would respond well to the racial question if it was disguised.

For example, if I asked your average teenager on this reservation: “Are you proud to be Native?” The answer I would get is, “hell yeah dawg.”

Now for some reason, I would find myself asking “if you’re so proud to be Native, then why do you walk, talk, act, and dress like an African American?”

But I always refrain from doing so.

The only one’s who oppose my views are the teachers at the high school, and a large portion of the student body who think a Nazi is a Klansman, or a White Supremacist thug.

Most of the Natives I know have been poisoned by what they were taught in school. The basic “Nazi = Bad, Jew = Good. Defend Jew at all costs.” You get the idea, the public school system has done more harm then good, and as a result it has left many on this reservation misled and misinformed.

But you are right about us Natives having a lot of pride in our heritage. I own my share of “Native Pride” shirts and sweaters, and I see many more in school, yet they are still outnumbered by your basic Rap culture paraphernalia.

I haven’t given too much thought to the way our land would be divided or how it would work, so thanks for bringing it up.

What ways has the Jewish power affected us in General? Ever since the Jewish post-war propaganda has been taught in our school systems (on reservations), a lot have been brainwashed into thinking purity is wrong, at least that’s my take on it. I can’t help but notice how many pure blooded Natives there are left since…

Sorry if I didn’t answer some of the questions in the ways you had hoped, but I’m a little tired right now. I’d be happy to field anymore questions you may have for me though.


Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by Somberlain on Jul 19th, 2004, 11:56pm
on 07/19/04 at 11:33:05, NativeNazi wrote:
Apparently a lot of people have never heard of a Native American National Socialist, which surprises me.

Do you have any info about other Native American National Socialists?


Quote:
I think most people on this Reservation would respond well to the racial question if it was disguised.

For example, if I asked your average teenager on this reservation: “Are you proud to be Native?” The answer I would get is, “hell yeah dawg.”

Now for some reason, I would find myself asking “if you’re so proud to be Native, then why do you walk, talk, act, and dress like an African American?”

But I always refrain from doing so.


This reminds me of just a few weeks ago when I went to the nearest reservation with my brother to buy fireworks. One vendor there, who must have been in early 20's, had a tattoo on his arm that said Native Pride, with Northwest Coast style artwork representing a sun tattooed above it. Farther down on his arm, he had a low-rider tattoo. He was just one case of "riggers" that I saw there.


Quote:
The only one’s who oppose my views are the teachers at the high school, and a large portion of the student body who think a Nazi is a Klansman, or a White Supremacist thug.


So do you have any friends who share your beliefs?


Quote:
Most of the Natives I know have been poisoned by what they were taught in school. The basic “Nazi = Bad, Jew = Good. Defend Jew at all costs.” You get the idea, the public school system has done more harm then good, and as a result it has left many on this reservation misled and misinformed.


Do the teachers say things like, "The White men tried to wipe us out, and the Nazis tried to wipe out the Jews, so we have a lot in common and should defend them."?


Quote:
But you are right about us Natives having a lot of pride in our heritage. I own my share of “Native Pride” shirts and sweaters, and I see many more in school, yet they are still outnumbered by your basic Rap culture paraphernalia.


Good to see that you and your people have pride in themselves. It's a shame though that they have been infected with rap culture, which seems to mess up any people it touches.


Quote:
I haven’t given too much thought to the way our land would be divided or how it would work, so thanks for bringing it up.


You're welcome. I would be interested to know what you think about that issue once you have given it more thought.


Quote:
What ways has the Jewish power affected us in General? Ever since the Jewish post-war propaganda has been taught in our school systems (on reservations), a lot have been brainwashed into thinking purity is wrong, at least that’s my take on it. I can’t help but notice how many pure blooded Natives there are left since…


Yes, I’ve noticed that many Natives I have seen are somewhat mixed. When you say that many Natives are brainwashed into thinking purity is wrong, does that mean that the teachers at your school encourage race-mixing?


Quote:
Sorry if I didn’t answer some of the questions in the ways you had hoped, but I’m a little tired right now. I’d be happy to field anymore questions you may have for me though.


Don’t worry, you’ve answered my questions quite well.


Title: Re: Native American Nationalists?
Post by NativeNazi on Jul 20th, 2004, 4:17pm Anymore Native American NS's? Not right now, though I’m thinking of recruiting a few for the party once school starts up again.

About the wannabe's, I call them “n-iggers,” since technically that’s what they are. Native - Iggers, though I tend not to use the term so much in public for obvious reasons.

Right now I know about two people on the Rez who share my beliefs, but they don’t share them entirely.

The teachers at my school are all white (besides the Ojibwe language teacher) , yet the times I have brought up that Native Women and Black men, or White women and Native men shouldn’t be together to keep their blood pure, I’ve been called a racist. When I bring up the point that our tribe (the Ojibwe) is mixed a lot and is in need of more pure bloods, I get the same old argument which seems to be so common around here. “We need to mix all the races, to combine all the strengths…” ect ect. It gets old real quick when you hear the same argument over and over.

They (teachers) don’t openly say that racial purity is wrong, yet when you speak your mind on the subject you get “silenced” real quick by the teachers and likeminded school officials…


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Wayne D
March 22, 2005, 12:45 PM
The school, which is on the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe reservation, has metal detectors but Weise reportedly shot an unarmed guard to get past the station.

Metal detectors and an unarmed guard. That really helped didn't it?

Andrew Rothman
March 22, 2005, 12:46 PM
This just keeps getting worse. He quoted the Columbine scumbags.
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=77083

Then, in a nearby classroom, he heard the gunman say something to his friend Ryan: "He asked Ryan if he believed in God," Graves said. "And then he shot him."

Lobotomy Boy
March 22, 2005, 02:03 PM
I grew up near the Red Lake Indian Reservation, and let me tell you that is one terrible place. The poverty and misery you encounter there are almost beyond comprehension. That doesn't excuse what this kid did, but it helps to understand how he could get to the point where he lost all respect for human life.

I wonder how his Nazi Internet buddies feel about what he's done?

M99M12
March 22, 2005, 02:33 PM
Matt, that's a chilling post.

ReadyontheRight
March 22, 2005, 02:50 PM
remember the Long Island RR shooting that was used as one of the reasons for the 94 AW ban? because he had a 15 shot mag in the pistol used. from what I remember at awbansunset.com was that the shooter had only one 15 shot mag and was on his 3rd time of reloading the mag when he was stopped. but that bit if info never made it in the news. why would this be any different?

Because we now have the Internet and THR to share info. We don't have to depend on the 3 big news channels and NY Times for our info.

DigMe
March 22, 2005, 02:57 PM
That is indeed some scary stuff.

The AP story in the Waco Tribune stated that he was wearing his granddad's duty belt and his bulletproof vest. That's the second incident in a few weeks where the BG was wearing bullet resistant clothing. Sheesh...I'm not about to go out and buy a Five-Seven but it does make me think more about practicing for head shots or something. What else can you do?!

http://www.wacotrib.com/hp/content/shared-gen/ap/National/School_Shooting.html

brad cook

kfranz
March 22, 2005, 02:58 PM
What else can you do

Spend $100 on a CZ 52

DigMe
March 22, 2005, 02:58 PM
Even if you allow guns in school and MN had shall-issue CCW, you're not going to see students with pistols in the classroom, for the simple reason that this is high school, not college, and no state that I know of will give a CCW permit to someone under 18. Teachers might have them, maybe. And maybe if guns were allowed, and it were deer season up there, you'd have a ton of 4x4s with deer rifles in gun racks in the parking lot.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we arm high school students. I think most people that are for allowing CCW in schools are thinking of teachers and staff.

brad cook

Havegunjoe
March 22, 2005, 03:10 PM
First, a student said he heard that this kid was planning something a year ago. :banghead: So, who did he tell, and what was done about it? Second, the shooter seemed to display all the classic symtoms and signs of someone who would do something like this. :banghead: So, didn't anyone, his police officer grandfather, school personel, other students pick up on this? It must have been the guns that made him do this.

Add one more thing, I just read that the security person was unarmed. :banghead: What good is an unarmed secruity guard? All they were was just another target.

walking arsenal
March 22, 2005, 03:19 PM
Hey gang

Just thought i'd give you the .02 from a local residents perspective.

I'm from the city of Bemidji ,MN (pronounced BEM-ID-JEE) which is just south of the red lake area.

First off i can tell you that the "Red Lake Nation" is of itself a warzone. When i first heard the news i was not at all surprised.

Not all but a lot of them are a bad bunch. The name Redlaker is synonomous with "look at me the wrong way and i'll beat your face in" the clans up there fight themselves constantly and the only time they do get along is if the are fighting all the white men in the area.

They fish out the lakes, hunt out the land, dont work and are about as mean as mean can be. The closest city to RL is bemidji and the city cops and sheriffs dept have thir hands full trying to keep these guys under control. Car thefts are an hourly ocurance and you dont wantto be caught unarmed out after dark. I worked as a Security guard in the city and quickly learned that if i had to stop a native from doing what they were doing i was going to have to fight him, i maced them a lot instead.

Again i'd like to say that this isnt all of them but a pretty decent portion. The good natives are GREAT people the rest are as low as low can be. Drug traffic through from MSP goes right through bemidji to RL.

Moving on.

The story goes so far that The boy was into the nazi bit and was teased a lot for dressing in "goth" clothing. His parents werent around and he was being raised by his granddad, a Red lake cop, who was living with a women whom they havent yet identified, it was not his grandmother.

The weapons of choice were two pistols and a shotgun. dont know the makes calibers etc.

When he went in he shot the security guard first, a teacher and then students all whom were in the same class room. He then turned the gun on himself.


Again, a lot of the locals arent surprised this happened.

standingbear
March 22, 2005, 03:20 PM
geesh..what is it with this facination with evil disgusting people?why are kids drawn to this crapola?


so tradgic.

NeveraVictimAgain
March 22, 2005, 03:56 PM
I agree with one45auto. It is time to buy all the guns we can, WHILE we still can.

Safe Shooting,
Dave :eek:

happy old sailor
March 22, 2005, 04:03 PM
a few days ago i stated that the shootings are not over. that was over the Minnesota deal. the public is not sufficiently arowsed/outraged to call on congress at this time, there is more to come. DiFi et al, and her ilk, are gleefuly wringing their hands and plotting with each other when the best time to strike might be. we grieve for the vioctims, they are filled with pleasure. when the anti's suceed or fail, the shootings will be over , for a while. til the next time anyway. more reason to not leave home without IT.

LaEscopeta
March 22, 2005, 06:32 PM
For the record, I’m not saying the shooter is not responsible for the crimes he committed, nor am I saying something else is to blame for this tragedy. I am saying this kid got dealt a bad hand in life, one that left him depressed/angry/messed up enough to be suicidal and homicidal. Lots of other people (too many) get dealt a hand as bad or worse, and they don’t shoot up a school. The difference is something inside this kid made him a criminal.

slzy
March 22, 2005, 06:40 PM
they took God out of the classroom but left Hitler there

White Horseradish
March 22, 2005, 07:48 PM
they took God out of the classroom but left Hitler thereWTF is that supposed to mean?

san408
March 22, 2005, 08:57 PM
I have a real problem with anyone trying to lay this (any part of this) on the kids teachers. I can tell you that I personally get to spend 55 minutes a day with these kids, and that time is spent either doing lecture or on class assignments. Most of the time, short of an all out breakdown, it is nearly impossible to see this.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that the teachers aren't sitting down and having heart to heart talks with kids five days a week. They're trying to complete the necessary course work.

I watched a lady on Fox-News today talking about "the school should have done something. I'm not talking about locking students away, but they could have done something."

Come do the job and then tell me what should have been done. Screw her.

People trying to divert responsibility for every juvenile based problem in our society on teachers is getting old. Guys I have a Chemistry degree. That's it. I'm not qualified to raise your kids. (not necessarily you folks, but you get my point.)

Rant off.

dirtwater doc
March 22, 2005, 10:25 PM
When it became un-acceptable to physicaly dicipline kids in schools I belive teachers lost a pretty important tool. There is a fine line between fear and respect and I havent met very many kids under 16 that know the difference.
I'm not saying teachers should be responsible for raising others kids but sometimes school may be the only form of orginization and dicipline a kid like the disturbed young man in Red Lake Mn. is exposed to so-it makes me wonder if a teacher or coach with the athourity to dicipline would have made any difference. :confused:

san408
March 23, 2005, 12:02 AM
Unfortunately these kids are the ones you hear about. I have great kids in my classes... as far as I know. Of course, I'm not timid, quiet, and passive like some teachers.

I tell my students on the first day how I expect to be talked to. I let them know that I would rather flip burgers than let them talk to me the way some of them talk to their parents, much less put their hands on me (which I let them know in no uncertain terms would be a bad situation for them). Then I make sure we have fun. In ten years, I've never had a child curse me, that wasn't apologizing ten to fifteen minutes later, after some talking to.

Maybe it would have helped, maybe not. Maybe this kid never asked for any help. Everyone assumes he put up some sort of sign. Unless those teachers were frequenting that "nazi" message board, those posts are a non-issue.

I don't know.

I just hate being the whipping dog for everything that isn't going right. Show me another person that has a major in Chemistry, minor in Biology, has worked the same job for ten years and makes $33,000. Then come talk to me about teachers only caring about a paycheck. (as said by Kaliserf)

I'd have to be some kind of moron to bust my ass in college and then do this job for the money. Gimmee a break. :)

san408
March 23, 2005, 12:07 AM
Just for the record, I really enjoy reading this board. I was just set off by a post by ********** serf and some things I heard earlier today. Not really griping at you guys. ;)


An issue I have with school shootings is the lack of help these students have and the lack of pity they receive. When I was in high school teachers cared more about their pay then the well being of they're students. These students who result to shooting people are depressed and feel that they have no where to go. It’s not that their evil, they just feel like making all the people who wronged them feel their pain. (Ever saw the movie Carrie?) That’s why I think that it’s not the students fault. They're sick and they need help. When I was in high school I didn't have many friends but the thought of taking out the people who made my life a living hell wasn't something I wanted to. So instead of staying in the environment that poisoned me, I left and started a new life, which is exactly what this poor boy should have done.

io333
March 23, 2005, 01:10 AM
http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/SCHOOL_SHOOTING.sff_MNDXP101_20050322121605.jpg

KaliforniaSerf
March 23, 2005, 01:29 AM
Just for the record, I really enjoy reading this board. I was just set off by a post by ********** serf and some things I heard earlier today. Not really griping at you guys.

I wasn't saying that all teachers don't care about their students. Just most of the ones I had at my old high school.

Guys I have a Chemistry degree. That's it. I'm not qualified to raise your kids.

Thats part of the problem. Most kids spend more time at school then they do with their parents. At school its your job to be the guardian. And if your not willing to do that then your part of the problem.

Everyone assumes he put up some sort of sign.

If your not aware of the emotional status of your students then thats another problem. I can't tell you how many times I got the ???? beat out of me while teachers and administrators did nothing. If you haven't seen it happen then either everyone at your school is a saint or your blind. :cuss:

only1asterisk
March 23, 2005, 01:32 AM
And people ask me why my daughter will never set foot in a public school...


David

c_yeager
March 23, 2005, 05:38 AM
Don't make the mistake of believing this to be a problem exclusive to the United States. It is a worldwide issue.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Don't forget that this modern "wave" of school shootings started with a shooting in Scotland (also the shooting that led to many of our beloved Brittish gun laws). Incidentially that shooter used a shotgun IIRC.

jobu07
March 23, 2005, 06:33 AM
I think IO333 summed it up, a picture is worth a thousand words.

peacefuljeffrey
March 23, 2005, 06:41 AM
JayJ said: Clearly a trajedy in every sense - for those who've lost their lives and those families that must go forward with the loss of loved ones. Senseless.....

Access, Access, Access.............this crime is a case of poor gun storage. Not that different than leaving your car keys available for your pre-driving age teens to gain access and harm someone.

What?! First of all, I have not yet read of the circumstances under which he got the guns. The grandfather whose guns they were was murdered. Perhaps the kid hit him on the head with a pipe while he was wearing his duty gun in uniform! That would not be an issue of "poor gun storage," unless you think that an LEO on duty should lug around his gun inside a gun safe.

Funny, when I was a kid, my parents' car keys were ALWAYS accessible to me. My dad had a badass silver Trans Am, too! But I knew right from wrong, and I never took the car without authorization. Why are you making excuses for misbehavior by kids, and laying blame on "access"? That strips all responsibility for wrongdoing away from the actual wrongdoer. Absurd.

-Jeffrey

Lobotomy Boy
March 23, 2005, 07:54 AM
dirtwater doc wrote:

When it became un-acceptable to physicaly dicipline kids in schools I belive teachers lost a pretty important tool.

This kid was obviously more than a little disturbed. Do you really think having his teachers beat him would improve the situation?

Weimadog
March 23, 2005, 08:19 AM
they took God out of the classroom but left Hitler there

If you want to find God in the classroom, go to Iran.

(oops, wrong God)

kfranz
March 23, 2005, 09:21 AM
I wasn't saying that all teachers don't care about their students. Just most of the ones I had at my old high school.

Could be. Most schools I've seen have a mix

Thats part of the problem. Most kids spend more time at school then they do with their parents. At school its your job to be the guardian. And if your not willing to do that then your part of the problem.

Kids spending more time with their teachers than their parents is a family problem, not a school problem. It is NOT the job of the teacher to be the guardian, no matter how much you wish it were so..... :rolleyes:


If your not aware of the emotional status of your students then thats another problem. I can't tell you how many times I got the ???? beat out of me while teachers and administrators did nothing. If you haven't seen it happen then either everyone at your school is a saint or your blind.

You getting the %%%% beat out of you is an observable phenomenon, and should have been dealt with. The mental state of someone you see for 50 minutes a day, while also seeing 25 other kids at the same time is NOT so easily observed. I'm a special ed teacher, and I see a small group of kids for FAR more time in any given day than a regular ed. teacher would, and at best, I can guess what's going on inside their brains. School isn't a residential facility, and kids often aren't real open with family or emotional issues. I'm sure though, that once you make super teacher status, it'll all be different....

slzy
March 23, 2005, 02:06 PM
when Hitler was left in the classroom you have one of the strongest personalities in history. the massive theatrical structure of Wagner,the stagecraft of Goebbels, Speer and Leni,the most impressive uniforms ever sewed,a black and white doctrine that is easy to follow,in other words Hitlers ability to memerize is undoubted. Now whatever God you may want to refer to,although the vitrolic anti-Semitism that seems to exist especially in Muslim nations,was promoted by Hitlerite factions in the Middle East,hoping to reunite the defunct Ottomans back into the fray as in WW1.There is a book called the Hitler Virus that goes into great detail of Hitlers message into the Mid East,so Hitler probably gets an uncredited appearence in Irans classrooms.
Perhaps by God here i mean plain human decency ethics and morals. I have no intention to argue theology or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I guess they all could if they so desired. Hitler represents the monstrous conclusion of Its All About Me.Incredible conceit and self centeredness.

san408
March 23, 2005, 05:26 PM
Thats part of the problem. Most kids spend more time at school then they do with their parents. At school its your job to be the guardian. And if your not willing to do that then your part of the problem.

No sir. It is NOT my job to be a guardian.

Is it my job to make myself accessable? Is it my job to be sensitive to the situations these kids deal with? Yes on both of those.

If you think that teachers should be surrogate parents during the school day, then I say that you and all the other people that have bought into all of the PC crap are part of the problem. Raise your own damn kids. Let me educate them, THAT'S my job, incase you hadn't noticed.


If your not aware of the emotional status of your students then thats another problem. I can't tell you how many times I got the ???? beat out of me while teachers and administrators did nothing. If you haven't seen it happen then either everyone at your school is a saint or your blind.

Well, then I guess most of the kids at my school must be saints. We have our share of fights, but for the most part it's pretty quiet. What does the emotional status of my students have to do with Chemistry professor? If I'm teaching a class, I'm supposed to read their minds? I teach, not psychoanalyze. If someone is obviously having problems, I always offer to listen, but two thirds of the time it gets shrugged off.

Remind me, how many hours are there in a day??? Yeah, no kidding? 24 you say? 24 FULL hours?

Well guess what Dr Spock? I get these kids for 55 minutes out of that day, if you expect me to raise them, then you're an idiot, and definately don't need to write any books about child rearing. :neener:

White Horseradish
March 23, 2005, 06:01 PM
when Hitler was left in the classroom you have one of the strongest personalities in history. the massive theatrical structure of Wagner,the stagecraft of Goebbels, Speer and Leni,the most impressive uniforms ever sewed,a black and white doctrine that is easy to follow,in other words Hitlers ability to memerize is undoubted. Now whatever God you may want to refer to,although the vitrolic anti-Semitism that seems to exist especially in Muslim nations,was promoted by Hitlerite factions in the Middle East,hoping to reunite the defunct Ottomans back into the fray as in WW1.There is a book called the Hitler Virus that goes into great detail of Hitlers message into the Mid East,so Hitler probably gets an uncredited appearence in Irans classrooms.
Perhaps by God here i mean plain human decency ethics and morals. I have no intention to argue theology or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I guess they all could if they so desired. Hitler represents the monstrous conclusion of Its All About Me.Incredible conceit and self centeredness.What the hell are you talking about?

How is Hitler in the classroom, aside from being mentioned in a history book? Or do you suggest we pretend he never existed? I have neither seen personally nor have ever heard of any US school instructing students in detail on Hitler's theories.

What does Middle East antisemitism and the Ottomans have to do with a screwed-up kid on an indian reservation in Minnesota?

As far as god in the classroom, that has been tried on the indians already. They used to take away their children and forcibly give them a "christian education". Sure seems to have worked wonders.

Gordon Fink
March 23, 2005, 07:34 PM
If you want to find God in the classroom, go to Iran.

(oops, wrong God)

Nope. Same god. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the God of Abraham, AKA Jehovah. But, yeah, Iran is a stellar example of theocracy in action.

~G. Fink

KaliforniaSerf
March 23, 2005, 07:39 PM
24 hours in a day

8 hours in school

8 hours for sleep

2 hours at home alone

6 hours around parents

( And thats with parents that don't work late )

io333
March 23, 2005, 07:46 PM
How is Hitler in the classroom, aside from being mentioned in a history book? Or do you suggest we pretend he never existed? I have neither seen personally nor have ever heard of any US school instructing students in detail on Hitler's theories.



Very weird. I had never heard of any of this before, so I dug around and found this. (http://www.dangoor.com/75002.html)


I don't really know what to make of it yet, but it is interesting.

Lobotomy Boy
March 23, 2005, 07:55 PM
Quote:
If you want to find God in the classroom, go to Iran.

(oops, wrong God)



Nope. Same god. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the God of Abraham, AKA Jehovah. But, yeah, Iran is a stellar example of theocracy in action.

~G. Fink

Mr. Fink beat me to it. Same god, different name.

KaliforniaSerf
March 23, 2005, 07:57 PM
I learned about Hitler from the history channel and band of brothers. Damn I loved that mini series.

Farnham
March 23, 2005, 09:39 PM
Ban morons...

House Bill M14.308, An Act to prohibit morons acting out, or morons using morons acting out as a reason to ban inanimate objects.

Regardless of parenting, teaching, legislation, or religion, morons have always and will always be present. Moronic behavior by simpletons, ignoramuses, scumbags, and any other stripe of asinine individual should be recognized for what it is, and be suitably punished. Blaming moronic behavior on completely inanimate objects or other people is indicative of deep seated asinity, and should be punished even more severely.

Morons that commit acts that are already illegal (murder, rape, jaywalking) should be punished to the fullest extent of the applicable law, immediately and without mercy. Morons that advocate the passing of moronic legislation after recognizing that a moron was at fault should be placed into the Great Hamster Wheel energy generation station proposed in House Bill 1873.45LC (Farnham, R-TX) until asinity is sweated out or heat stroke renders them vegetative.

Proposed by Farnham, Representative (R-Texas)

PS: I don't care if this kid was raised by wild hogs, he is responsible for his actions. I get :cuss: all the time, and you don't see me mowing people down. I've even got better guns and I'm a better shot. Morons suck.

Stand_Watie
March 23, 2005, 10:21 PM
deleted.

Sorry forgot the 'no religion' rule.

P95Carry
March 23, 2005, 10:40 PM
Please folks - NO religion - it is non THR and usually goes where we don't wanna go!

HankB
March 24, 2005, 08:40 AM
I place odds on it

that the kid was on Prozac or Accutane for acne.
DING DING DING - WE HAVE A WINNER.

In this morning's American Statesman (the local Austin, Texas rag) it was reported that the perp actually WAS on Prozac and had been hospitalized at least once for "suicidal tendencies."

This is SO predictable.

Grey54956
March 25, 2005, 08:59 AM
All Right!!! Score another one for PROZAC!!!

Seriously, prozac has its place, but we tend to overmedicate people, especially the wrong people. It isn't a wonder drug and it has its dangers like:

"WARNING: IF YOU ARE APE-******** CRAZY, DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT. POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS INCLUDE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS!"

Honestly, beginning to wonder if the overuse of prozac is part of some giant leftist conspiracy to turn the country against the 2nd... FOIL HAT: ON!

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