N.C. Man Kicked Out of Military Over Contraband Rifle


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greyhound
March 22, 2005, 09:50 AM
N.C. Man Kicked Out of Military Over Contraband Rifle
By The Associated Press
(03/22/05 - FORT BRAGG) — A North Carolina National Guard soldier who tried to bring home a contraband AK-47 assault rifle has been kicked out of the military, a Fort Bragg spokesman said.
Sgt. Craig A. Marks II was charged with conspiracy to steal the rifle and with the violation of a broad general order that bars troops from various activities that include brining home souvenir weapons, Maj. Richard Patterson said Monday.

Marks, a member of the Fayetteville-based 1st Battalion of the 252nd Armor Regiment, served a 10-month tour in Iraq with the N.C. Guard's 30th Heavy Separate Brigade. "I can't talk about that right now," he said Monday.

The weapon was discovered in Kuwait and never made it to the United States, Patterson said. He had no other details of how the weapon was smuggled or how investigators determined+ that Marks was involved.

Marks' case was handled by authorities at Fort Bragg because he was on active duty when the violations took place. He asked authorities there to dismiss him from the military rather than call a court-martial.

Because of privacy regulations, Patterson said he couldn't say whether Marks received an honorable or dishonorable discharge.
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---- A far cry from the old days when, I'm told, soldiers brought home all kinds of contraband. When did this stop? WWII, Korea, Vietnam?--------

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PMDW
March 22, 2005, 09:52 AM
It'd be a felony to have it in the U.S., anyway.

El Rojo
March 22, 2005, 09:53 AM
Wouldn't it be nice for soldiers to be able to bring home at least one souvenir rifle, pistol, and shotgun? Wouldn't it be nice if the laws back home were right and it wouldn't matter if it was full-auto or not? Oh well, it isn't so this dude screwed up.

Lennyjoe
March 22, 2005, 10:06 AM
As a C&R holder I believe I can bring back 2 weapons as per the C&R rules and regs and the ATF regs.

Unfortunately, the military has their own regs forbidding us to bring back any.

EghtySx
March 22, 2005, 10:22 AM
Their fathers and grandfathers did it. :fire:

El Tejon
March 22, 2005, 10:31 AM
Anyone reciting Tommy Atkins in their head? :banghead:

We are not citizens, but serfs in service to the tsar. :(

WT
March 22, 2005, 10:32 AM
I don't mind that he tried to bring in an AK. I do mind that he willingly violated a general order.

jefnvk
March 22, 2005, 10:37 AM
What I don't get, is why don't they just try to smuggle back the reciever? Seems to me that that would be easier, and they could build it up with a parts kit.

I'll second WT's, though.

Antjo
March 22, 2005, 10:45 AM
I believe that the men & women who risk their LIVES for not just our freedoms, but to provide those freedoms to others less fortunate, should be able to have a souvenir. WW2 Vets got to bring back Lugers and Japanese machine guns, and Vietnam Vets brought back AK's, so what. Stupid media induced hoplophobia bullcrap. No leniency left in this country.

Langenator
March 22, 2005, 11:49 AM
IIRC, troops weren't allowed to bring back AKs from Vietnam, or if they were, the military put up a huge amount of red tape.

The big problem now, I think, is not so much hoplophobia as media-relations phobia. The generals are deathly afraid of images of American troops going souvenier hunting being broadcast as 'looting' around the world.

Spreadfire Arms
March 22, 2005, 11:52 AM
Lennyjoe wrote:

As a C&R holder I believe I can bring back 2 weapons as per the C&R rules and regs and the ATF regs.

That is actually incorrect. C&R license does not allow importation. You would need a Firearms Importer License like Century Arms International or Southern Ohio Gun. A C&R license is different.

Hawkmoon
March 22, 2005, 12:13 PM
Some Vietnam veterans may have gotten AKs into the U.S. but we were not "allowed" to bring them home. It was in violation of policy and orders if it happened.

Shorts
March 22, 2005, 12:31 PM
While I think it'd be cool to be able to bring arms back from overseas, it bothers me that orders and rules were violated. My husband is squadron Legal-O, and the stupidity that he has to take care of is ridiculous. You would think grown men and women would honor the rules set before them. Would I be bummed to if I was told no if I were in the same position? Yes. Would I continue with the 'illegal activity', no. It's not worth it.

As for wether the guy got released with OTH or GD, that might can be determined from the general info provided about the incident.

crucible
March 22, 2005, 12:33 PM
During the first Great Sandbox War, I was aware of a few cases of folks doing that very thing and getting caught. One I knew-a man that had earned meritorious Corporal just a couple months beforehand got caught trying to mail home a RPG launcher in a seabag. Was quite sad really-he was married with one child and was headed to Ft. Leavenworth instead to home to his family.

I had (there) a liberated folding stock AK for several months-a nice piece that was doggone small when the stock was folded. Could have easily fit into a seabag....but no way I was silly enough to try, and it, along with thousands of others, got buried uin the sand.

We did have other souviners though-many AK bayonets and others things. We had so many AK bayonets that the pogues in the rear issued orders that we had to turn them in-with the promise that we'd get them back once home. Yea sure, that never happened, but I remember seeing a whole lot of people with AK bayonets back at Lejeune who never were there months afterwards :rolleyes:

Cruc

sturmruger
March 22, 2005, 12:36 PM
That is sad that this mans military career is over. Too bad he did it to himself.

HankB
March 22, 2005, 12:36 PM
WW2 Vets got to bring back Lugers and Japanese machine guns . . . ,No. Rifles and pistols were fine, but fully automatic firearms were prohibited back then. Not to say that some didn't actually return with the GIs (including various Thompsons, grease guns, BARs, grenades, etc.) But they weren't supposed to.

My late father sent back - I mean, he knew a guy who sent back - some Nambu souvenir machine guns, but when they disappeared in transit, he felt - I mean, his buddy felt - it would be best not to inquire about what happened to them. ;)

It really bugs me that today some anal-retentive poltical animal of a REMF has decided that all ordinary firearms found on the battlefield by U.S. combat troops are now considered contraband. :cuss:

Bear Gulch
March 22, 2005, 12:41 PM
I think that a lot of WWII stuff came back via the mails without permission. Or at least that is the impression that one gets talking to my WWII vet relatives.

Shorts
March 22, 2005, 12:41 PM
That is sad that this mans military career is over. Too bad he did it to himself.

That's what we say about every one of these guys that has been sent home. They just don't think.

DSRUPTV
March 22, 2005, 12:51 PM
Man, it would be really cool if they would be allowed to bring a souvenir like that home. Even if they were required to have the automatic capability disabled. For the service they are providing for us by putting their lives on the line I think it is the least they deserve.

bad LT
March 22, 2005, 03:38 PM
Can servicemen bring back semi-automatic rifles (SKSs, Dragonovs, etc.) or pistols?

DRZinn
March 22, 2005, 03:56 PM
We did have other souviners though-many AK bayonets and others things. Not even that, this time around... :(

jefnvk
March 22, 2005, 03:57 PM
Nope, nothing. The people I knew said even bayonets were iffy for a while, but command let them go.

Sean Smith
March 22, 2005, 04:07 PM
The guy was a dummy. These policies have been around forever, and are very clearly articulated over and over. He disobeyed a general order and got smacked. Is it stupid? I think so. There was a cool Croatian pistol I'd have liked to take home from Bosnia. But so what? It's the military, you follow orders or get smacked down.

Missourigunner
March 22, 2005, 04:20 PM
When I served in Vietnam, we were specifically told that the AK-47, was illegal as a War Trophy as were other Automatic Weapons. Face it, the guy screwed up :cuss:

Joejojoba111
March 22, 2005, 04:36 PM
Hypothetically, could one simply leave the [item not allowed to be brought home] with a resident of said foreign state, and then re-acquire it later, as a person-to-person transaction with all due paperwork? Every country has lawyers, I'd look into having a lawyer in said wartorn country participate in the transaction.

P.S.

I never really respected enterprising intelligence of troops in general (a horribly wide brushstroke, I'm sorry to say) after those soldiers turned in hundreds of millions of dollars in US cash they found whilst on patrol. $100 million for a pat on the head, not a good price in my books.

Spreadfire Arms
March 22, 2005, 04:50 PM
Joejojoba111 wrote:

Hypothetically, could one simply leave the [item not allowed to be brought home] with a resident of said foreign state, and then re-acquire it later, as a person-to-person transaction with all due paperwork?

sure, if you are a licensed importer and get permission from the U.S. State Department to import from a hostile country.

mummac
March 22, 2005, 04:57 PM
My grandfather told me when he returned from WWII he had two lugers and some other pistol, but was told not to take them home, so he ditched them. Then when travelling back a lot of other guys were comparing their souvenirs and no one said anything to them. He's still miffed about it. I hear the story every time we go to a gun show.

Moondoggie
March 23, 2005, 09:59 AM
A guy I knew in the service had a placque on his desk with a quote attributed to John J. Pershing..."Enlisted men are stupid. But they are clever and bear careful watching."

One Marine Wing Support Squadron was found smuggling a bunch of AK's, etc back from Gulf War I inside the fuel tanks (via cutting/welding false bottoms) of their heavy equipment. Customs and the Marine Corps determined that it was such a coordinated effort that everybody in the squadron had to have been in on it. The CO, a full colonel, was relieved for cause (couldn't have happened to a better guy...he was a nimrod angling to make general) but "they" decided that it wasn't practical to prosecute about 300 folks. I was present at a general staff meeting where this was discussed, so it's not scuttlebut.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War..."Troops will fight harder if they understand that they will be allowed to rape and plunder if they are victorious". Quoting that from memory.

CarbineKid
March 23, 2005, 01:25 PM
My grndfater took home his 1911, but it was stolen shortly afterwards. His brother(who passed away years ago) took home a german MP-42. They were even in the local paper holding it. I guess times have changed since tehn.
Oh yeah the MP-42 is still hidden somewhere, when my uncle died so did the secret of its location:(

Lone_Gunman
March 23, 2005, 01:42 PM
I don't understand what this guy was thinking...

Even if he got it in the country, he would never be able to take it out in public or shoot it, without risking its discovery.

mons meg
March 23, 2005, 06:20 PM
Looking back, after Desert Storm I could have easily slipped that "paratrooper" AK into my seabag...the one with folding stock, forward pistol grip, etc. and gotten by customs with ease. But, I did the right thing. They had us worried that we wouldn't even be able to bring our balisongs (purchased in Jacksonville, NC!) back into the country... :uhoh: Turns out there was no mass x-ray screening of all our gear. :)

Joey2
March 23, 2005, 06:42 PM
What is sad is that the Iraqi's are allowed to have full auto's and here you have the U.S. who is suppose to be liberating them not allowing their own troops to own what the indignous personnel can own. :cuss:

Phil Ca
March 23, 2005, 07:00 PM
Recently I read in a WW2 book about GI's bringing home WW2 rifles and pistols. One ship had a average of 2 foreign weapons for each person on board.

In Vietnam I bought a M3A1 "grease gun" in .45 caliber for $45 bucks. It had about 8 magazines ad several boxes of GI ball ammo. I kept it in a false bottom foot locker in my work area except during attack warnings and when I fired it. I sold it to a guy with more time than me for $60 bucks when I left. That was one nice weapon and it would have made a nice souvenir but I could not take the chance.

As it was I had to apply to the RVN government for an "export" permit in order to carry my personal .38 Special back home.

RevDisk
March 23, 2005, 07:05 PM
He should have known better.

Then again, I can't remember all the general orders that were incredibly stupid. My personal favorite was "No pornography". To be fair, this was due to the Military Honor and Decency Act that Congress passed, from my understanding. Still, if every soldier violating this order was thrown in the brig, there wouldn't be more than a handful of soldiers to guard them.

I wish the military and Congress would allow soldiers to bring back soveneirs, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Fred Fuller
March 23, 2005, 07:23 PM
No way he didn't know that would get him in hot water if he got caught with it. He volunteered to get in, he volunteered to get out. Simple as that, and he's lucky not to be in Leavenworth right now.

Cain't be havin them Gee Eyes runnin around unsupervised with a weepon, ya know...

lpl/nc (still glad to have FtBragg in the rearview mirror for good)

Ky Larry
March 23, 2005, 07:41 PM
I was in a C-130 outfit in the 1970's. If the brass had any idea of the stuff that was hauled back to the states from all over the world they would have had strokes. Weapons, drugs, stereos, booze. motorcycles,art works, ivory,
tools, antique furniture.......Now somebody is getting their drawers in a wad over one AK? :rolleyes:

bill123
March 23, 2005, 10:05 PM
A WW2 vet told me they had frequent searches on their way home. Only the connected- officers, etc, were exempt.

eab
March 23, 2005, 11:35 PM
My great uncle I guess was able to smuggle a German Walther P-38 back from WWII. My uncle has it now. My Dad says that my great uncle said that a bunch of guys had them and alot of them dumped them over board cause they could have gotten in big troulple when they got back to the states.

I guess it has always been agianst the law or what ever to bring stuff back but there has been varying degrees of who decides what is "Kosher".

They guy is really a defuses. He should have know better. If he really wanted to play games and have a full auto AK47 he should have just brought back the reciver and trigger group. Less dectable.


One of my Friends friends was back from Irag last winter and he showed pics of an nickle plated underfolding AK47 they confascated from some dude. Looked VERY pretty and if I was him I would have been very tempted to have that brought back if I was there my self.

MudPuppy
March 24, 2005, 12:26 AM
I think they should make a law allowing perhaps a single weapon to be returned with an elligible (no felonies) soldier. Be grandfathered in as a fully transferable class three.

But hey, I'm wacky about such things as believing in what the constitution and the freedom of this country means. Otherwise, I'd run for office.

eab
March 24, 2005, 12:57 AM
I think that it would be cool and a good idea if soliders were able to bring back any semi auto firearm.

However I do not think it would be a good idea to allow any 18-19 old kid to bring back into civialian life a full auto gun, it might work though.

However if are govermant or socity were more full auto friendly, like say Finland. Then it would be a more applicaple and exceptable idea I think.

RevDisk
March 24, 2005, 01:01 AM
I think that it would be cool and a good idea if soliders were able to bring back any semi auto firearm.

However I do not think it would be a good idea to allow any 18-19 old kid to bring back into civialian life a full auto gun, it might work though.

So, we trust 18-19 year olds with automatic weapons when they wear funny looking clothing... but the second they put on civilian clothing, they lose all ability to handle such weapons. Right, makes perfect sense to me.

:banghead:

MudPuppy
March 24, 2005, 01:04 AM
How old do you currently have to be to purchase a full auto? 18 or 21?

Hkmp5sd
March 24, 2005, 01:05 AM
You would need a Firearms Importer License like Century Arms International or Southern Ohio Gun. A C&R license is different.
That is incorrect. An individual can do the proper paperwork with ATF and import a firearm into the US. It must be transferred through a FFL (any FFL, not just importers) in the person's state of residence.

There is a procedure for military personnel to import firearms from places like Iraq while serving there. The problem is the firearm must meet the '68 GCA importation standards and that rules out most "military" firearms.

How old do you currently have to be to purchase a full auto? 18 or 21?

21.

Beren
March 24, 2005, 01:50 AM
Sorry, we only trust you to carry dangerous firearms when you're in uniform and risking your life to enact our national policies. :P

Otherguy Overby
March 24, 2005, 02:29 AM
That's right, all you sniveling socialists, YOU!

You wanna make a criminal out of someone who came back from the sand box with an AK47 unconstitutionally made illegal through several illegal gun control acts. And he just got done fighting for your right to bear some arms.

Did you conveniently forget the oath about defending the constitution?

Now if the government wanted to finance some of this war by bringing back and selling AKs and other NFA weapons would you still complain?

medmo
March 24, 2005, 02:41 AM
Sorry Fella's But No Sympathy From Me...

When I returned from this region we were warned several times about our personal gear and packages shipped home being searched. We were warned that if caught we would be procecuted to the full extent of UCMJ. I'm sure that this guy had the same lectures, warnings and opportunities to make the correct decision. I'm sorry he made a big mistake but like a big boy he is going to have to pay for it. Myself and everyone that I knew disposed of our toys properly because we didn't want to be held up over there and really looked forward to coming home and seeing our loved ones. I didn't want one moments delay and at the time there wasn't one trophy or toy worth my departure. He was not a tourist in a foreign land but a soldier who blatantly disobeyed a lawful order. Different rules folks.

Double Naught Spy
March 24, 2005, 09:49 AM
You know, it doesn't matter what your pappy or grandpappy did back in the big wars, or what you did in some war. Time have changed and laws have changed. This soldier chose to break the law within the military, alledgely, in an attempt to illegally import a fully automatic weapon onto US soil where possession would be a felony.

Otherguy Overby, the Constitution does not apply to military personnel.

So, we trust 18-19 year olds with automatic weapons when they wear funny looking clothing... but the second they put on civilian clothing, they lose all ability to handle such weapons. Right, makes perfect sense to me.

Right. Just like LEOs that quit or retire from the profession can no longer write you tickets or open carry pistols. Just like when Clinton left office, he no longer had access to the football. Sure, we trusted him for 8 years with it, but once that job was over, so was that facet of the job.

Spreadfire Arms
March 24, 2005, 01:02 PM
hkmp5sd wrote:

"Quote: 'You would need a Firearms Importer License like Century Arms International or Southern Ohio Gun. A C&R license is different.'

That is incorrect. An individual can do the proper paperwork with ATF and import a firearm into the US. It must be transferred through a FFL (any FFL, not just importers) in the person's state of residence.
There is a procedure for military personnel to import firearms from places like Iraq while serving there."


the full quote i stated was:
"Lennyjoe wrote:

As a C&R holder I believe I can bring back 2 weapons as per the C&R rules and regs and the ATF regs.

That is actually incorrect. C&R license does not allow importation. You would need a Firearms Importer License like Century Arms International or Southern Ohio Gun. A C&R license is different."

------

the question i originally answered was whether or not a C&R license allowed importation. the correct answer is still "No," at least to that part. but mp5sd is right on the Form 6.

as a member of the U.S. Armed Forces, you can file an ATF Form 6. here is the linky:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f53303b.pdf

However it stipulates:
"that such firearm or ammunition is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; excluding surplus military firearms.

you could not import anything restricted under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (NFA Weapons), or the Assault Weapons Ban of 1989 (Imported Semiauto Assault Weapons).

that leaves you to import pistols and semiautomatic "non-assault" rifles only.

rock jock
March 24, 2005, 01:24 PM
That's right, all you sniveling socialists, YOU!
Lighten up, Francis.

KimKommando
April 12, 2008, 01:10 AM
The majority of troops do the right thing, the minority don't and usually get caught. I worked customs in Kuwait...you'd be surprised at how often we caught folks trying to smuggle weapons and other contriband. We would find the damn things in fuel tanks on vehicles....you name it. One of my neighbors actually got caught trying to smuggle a weapon home. He ended up losing his status as a SF soldier....he's an 82nd guy now, can you imagine losing all os that???:uhoh:

HungSquirrel
April 12, 2008, 02:11 AM
I don't think it's so much to ask to be allowed to take home a rifle that belonged to someone who aimed it at me (but is now deceased). I guess I am old-fashioned.

Treo
April 12, 2008, 02:34 AM
When I was in Germany we had a 1SGT that had what looked like Soviet shoulder board on a plaque in his office. I asked him about them one day and he told me he "liberated" them in Grenada. When I asked exactly what he meant he replied that he killed the individual wearing them and removed them from his uniform. I never had the stones to ask if he was kidding but I don't think so.

I had a PLT SGT. here in the States claim to have found an M-9 W/ no serial number during Desert Storm, he SAID he broke it down and dumped it into his fuel tank (Hemmit) I never saw any un-serial numbered M-9 and I figured it was none of my business.

We were informed even before we left that we had better not even think about it.

I have a few Saudi coins in a box somewhere& some Iraqi paper money W/ Saddams picture on it in the dinning room hutch. that's enough for me.

As for homeboy? At the same time he promised to Support & defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foriegn & domestic . he also promised to " Obey the orders of the officers appointed over him in accordance W/ military regulations & the uniform code of military justice"

He failed to do so, his choice he lives W/ the decision.

Jdude
April 12, 2008, 02:43 AM
I am told that early in the war, the outgoing mail was not thoroughly checked... a person claimed success on transporting an RPG. I never saw it though.

Having personally been through customs multiple times I am certain nobody gets anything through anymore. I had my stuff xrayed, I was searched then I dropped off my main bags. I walked around the corner, and surprise! I was separated from what few things remained (belt, hat, carry on bag) and was searched while those items were xrayed again. This happened to everybody I saw.

The only way I see it happening is if one is responsible for an entire aircraft or other large vehicle that is not searched. I bet the zoomies have lots of neat things.

mekender
April 12, 2008, 02:49 AM
i remember hearing a story of a salty old colonel in the first sandbox war that was in charge of loading captured AKs and the like into shipping containers and sending em off to get destroyed... well this colonel decides that Ft Benning needs some AKs so that the soldiers being trained can learn about em... so he manages to route several large containers full of guns to the states... well when they get to the shipping yard at the naval base, this colonel goes and picks em up and when the guy at the yard inspects em, he simply has this colonel sign for em... my understanding was that at least one of the shipping containers was only about half full by the time it got to GA...

one can only hope that those toys have a good home somewhere and that one day when this gun control nonsense is fixed that they will be able to see the light of day

plexreticle
April 12, 2008, 04:52 AM
Everybody knows they will be thoroughly searched, bags vehicles, personal items.

This guy was a numbskull for even trying.

yokel
April 12, 2008, 06:35 AM
We must note the cruel irony. How often do we hear the claim that American troops defend our freedoms or support and defend the Constitution.

As our Founding Fathers understood so well, the primary threat to our freedom lies with our own government.

packnrat
April 12, 2008, 06:42 AM
what is wrong with a service man/women from bringing back a war trophy??

just as long as the item is not a museum item. aka stolen art.. that kind of thing. they should be allowed to have something as a memento of there time in service....after all they are risking there lives.

Nobody's_Hero
April 12, 2008, 06:48 AM
Does anyone with military experience or knowledge of the subject know when exactly and why it became a capital sin to bring home war souvenirs?

Like others have mentioned, there were tons and tons of stuff shipped home during WW2 and no body got their feelings irreparably hurt. Fine wines, linens, silverware, lugers.

Maybe it started seeming like we were looting the place, but, that's the only reason I can think of.

So, now you can't even bring home a bayonet?

Treo
April 12, 2008, 10:58 AM
The issue isn't so much that he attempted to bring back an AK, the issue is that he disobeyed a direct, lawful order. Although, I'm sure the fact that it WAS an AK probably didn't help.

I would GUESS that it became illegall whenever the law against importing firearms W/out a license was passed. My dad never brought home anything from Korea that I'm aware of. One of my cousins had two hand grenades I never got a close enough look to see if they were inert ( if they weren't would that make them ert?).

DRZinn
April 12, 2008, 12:33 PM
I don't know if I mentioned this when the thread was new 3 years ago, but if I'd had a pistol in my waistband I'd have gotten it through.

Born4spd
April 12, 2008, 12:54 PM
Hell no that guy cant bring that home.

Hes a Soldier and i thank him for his service BUT the Armed Forces HAS BEEN INFILTRATED BY GANGS.

This guy might not be a Good ol boy who just wants to take it out and shoot some milk cartons.


The last thing we need is some punk MS13 or Crip with a Select fire Kalash.

Hardware
April 12, 2008, 01:24 PM
Why try to bring home the whole piece when it would be dead simple to bring home the fire control group?

Craig_VA
April 12, 2008, 02:11 PM
The modern U.S. military, at least from WWII on, has outlawed looting and the taking of firearms as "souvenirs." That did not stop it from happening. It also did not make for consistency in enforcement.
During the first Gulf War (91-92) enlisted soldiers caught with souvenir firearms were court martialled and sent to Leavenworth. There was at least one instance of an Army general officer getting caught... and allowed to retire quietly.
The state of being wrong (or doing wrong) does not come from being caught, or being punished... it comes from the act itself.

craig

akodo
April 12, 2008, 03:01 PM
I've got mixed feelings on bring-home booty. On one hand, they are over their risking life and limb, so bringing back some military hardware captured from the 'enemy' should be good.

On the other hand, sometimes the stuff being sent home, especially ala ww2, was silver sets from the locals, prized shotguns, etc.

A sporting rifle or shotgun found over in iraq was probably the means for a family to feed themselves, until saddam's boys or the maddi militia or whoever grabbed it up for themselves. The pistol was probably someone's defense against suni-shia attacks.

It isn't the same as pulling a government built and issued luger from the holster of some Lt that you just killed/captured.

Tommygunn
April 12, 2008, 03:21 PM
Pity the guy had to do this.

My father served in the U.D.T. during the Korean War. Somehow he brought home his scuba tank, a CO2 powered spear gun and an M1 Carbine. I have the carbine now ... I have no idea what happened to the scuba tank and the spear gun.

Rugerlvr
April 12, 2008, 05:10 PM
Besides violating orders, he tried to commit a felony via the importation of a fully automatic weapon. I have little sympathy. There are plenty of legal ways to acquire an AK pattern rifle when he's home.

Ala Dan
April 12, 2008, 07:06 PM
What a'bout President Bush owning a "war trophy pistol" that belonged
to Saddam Hussein? Are not the laws written with every U.S. citizen in
mind; or does he get to keep that famed pistol that we Americans saw
repeatedly on TV, of Saddam firing into the air from his perch high above
the city?

glennser
April 12, 2008, 11:50 PM
" What a'bout President Bush owning a "war trophy pistol" that belonged
to Saddam Hussein? Are not the laws written with every U.S. citizen in
mind; or does he get to keep that famed pistol that we Americans saw
repeatedly on TV, of Saddam firing into the air from his perch high above
the city?"

Great point!! I remember when I first heard of that and thinking it was a disgrace, the man who dodged Vietnam and goes to bed to sleep soundly at 10pm every night, including the night before launching an illegal invasion gets a personal trophy to put on his wall?

How many brave and innocent people died so that shirker could show his cronies that gun?

And then he had the cheek to joke about searching for the missing WMD's in the White House?

I agree that looting should be illegal but these poor suckers gets discharged for trying to bring home a souvenir while Cheney, KBR and Halliburton loot our treasury and destroy our image worldwide, where's the justice in that?

Glennser

Owen
April 13, 2008, 12:05 AM
Gifts given to the President don't belong to the President. That pistol will end up in his library, or, at least its supposed to.

eflatminor
April 13, 2008, 12:27 AM
I sure am glad my grandfather brought back a Luger pistol with Nazi markings, near perfect condition and with all serial numbers matching. And yes, he gave it to me!

catfish101
April 13, 2008, 01:33 AM
When I left the middle east in 91 guys could bring home an AK-47 but the bolt and end of the barrel had to be welded up. I did a few for guys.

DRZinn
April 13, 2008, 01:57 AM
The state of being wrong (or doing wrong) does not come from being caught, or being punished... it comes from the act itself.
Then tell me, please, what is inherently wrong with bringing home a rifle.

mccook8
April 13, 2008, 02:00 AM
Catfish101, you're lucky you had a different chain of command (at the lower end, anyway) than mine.

I begged and pleaded with my CO to let us take an SVD home, demilled, for the Bn HQ trophy case, and that was a no-go.

SomeKid
April 13, 2008, 02:34 AM
What about ammo, or magazines? Will sending those home for personal use get you a free ride to civilian life?

cleardiddion
April 13, 2008, 04:07 AM
Why is this thread even active again?
And revived by a guy from Chernobyl?

spaceCADETzoom
April 13, 2008, 12:31 PM
Then tell me, please, what is inherently wrong with bringing home a rifle.
Nothing, necessarily. What's wrong, as others have repeated over and over, was disobeying a legal order. This wasn't a case of civil disobedience. This was a a case of a guy who thought he wouldn't get caught and knew perfectly well that what he was doing was wrong.

On another note...all of these cases of our grandpas bringing home Lugers aren't relevant. Have any of them brought home MP40s or MG42s? No. BEcause it was against a general order then, too.

Realbigo
March 29, 2009, 03:26 AM
I guess this is a bad time to mention where my CZ 52 came from....

Cannonball888
March 29, 2009, 09:11 AM
Booze makes you do silly things like revive a dead thread at 3:26 AM and almost confess your sins. :rolleyes:

the_right_reverend
March 29, 2009, 09:30 AM
never did find the lower receiver for the G3 upper I found in 1982:D while shaking down my platoon

SCKimberFan
March 29, 2009, 09:34 AM
Booze makes you do silly things like revive a dead thread at 3:26 AM and almost confess your sins.

Yup.

chuckusaret
March 29, 2009, 09:49 AM
I was able to bring a AK47 and an SKS back from Vietnam it was allowed prior to the 1968 weapons ban. Sadly, both were lost during hurricane Katrina.
I must agree with the action of the Army to punish the Sgt. for violating a general order.

rbernie
March 29, 2009, 11:09 AM
Just say 'no' to thread necromancy.....

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