SKS or AK47 for my trunk?


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epijunkie67
March 24, 2005, 10:06 AM
I want to keep a general purpose rifle in the trunk of my car. Since it will be general purpose I decided against .223. I want it to be small since it will be stored in my trunk and I've pretty much decided on a folding/collapsing stock as my best option. It has to be reliable and I don't want to spend a ton of cash on it. It should also be reasonably accurate out to about 200 yards.

Given all the above criteria I've decided to go with 7.62X39 since most of the .308 stuff is pretty pricey. So given my chosen caliber I'm left with the SKS or an Ak/AK varient. I realize if I go with an SKS I'll have to play the 10 or less game when I switch out the stock. I found a 16" Paratrooper model SKS in decent condition for $175 in a local store. Is this a reasonable price?

Or I could go with a folding stock Ak but I've never owned one and heard they tend to have accuracy issues. What could I expect to spend on an accurate folding stock AK with 16-18" barrel?

I'm willing to spend up to about $400-450 on this but would hate to go higher. I know I can get an SKS and parts for that if I look around. Am I missing any good options? Given the above two options which would you chose?

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rbernie
March 24, 2005, 10:19 AM
I found a 16" Paratrooper model SKS in decent condition for $175 in a local store. Is this a reasonable price?Sure is.

For a trunk gun (presuming that you've addressed the legalities of carrying such a thing around), I'd recommend the SKS over the AK based primarily on cost. Either will work reliably under virtually any circumstances you can subject 'em to, but the SKS is so much cheaper that it's a better 'knock-around' choice IMO.

Ash
March 24, 2005, 10:57 AM
And if you end up on the news, the won't be able to say AK-47 ASSAULT RIFLE. They will, of course, say ASSAULT RIFLE, but everybody knows that AK-47 is the mark of the devil.

Ash

Chipperman
March 24, 2005, 11:38 AM
SKS is synonymous with AK47 in the media. :rolleyes:

epijunkie67
March 24, 2005, 11:46 AM
(presuming that you've addressed the legalities of carrying such a thing around)

I've got a CC permit and I'm the only one who drives my car so it shouldn't be an issue. I plan on storing it in a mounted case.

JShirley
March 24, 2005, 12:10 PM
The little "Paratrooper" SKS carbine is a great piece. If you can find a 20-round mag that will work reliably, I think you'll have about the right combination of firepower and handling ease. I loved mine.

Nothing wrong with the AK family, though if you were carrying it in the trunk- as opposed to carrying in-vehicle, with frequent dismounts- I believe I'd keep a fixed stock on it. I just happen to have a very nice AK for sale in the FS forums. ;)

Good luck,

John

jefnvk
March 24, 2005, 01:19 PM
SKS. Buy a couple, if you ever get one confiscated, you won't have to worrry about it. Why spend $300+ for something that works as wel as a $100 rifle?

JShirley
March 24, 2005, 06:52 PM
jef,

I don't believe it's fair to say the SKS "works as well" as an AK. Yes, it does work as well- for the first 10 rounds! If any type of potential defensive usage is anticipated, the advantages of a sturdy detachable magazine with commonly available and economical mags can't be overstated.

Personally, I would view "general purpose" as including possible defensive use, in addition to things like putting down animals injured by traffic, or meeting a feral dog pack outside city limits with clear fields of fire, or just finding a couple of hours of daylight left, when you live in the right places: just grab a 5-round mag for that AK and a hunter orange vest, and you're ready to meet Bambi.

John

Bane
March 24, 2005, 07:04 PM
Go with the AK. Get a fixed stock Wasr10 for just under $300. A few 30rd mags and you are ready to go!

Lonestar.45
March 24, 2005, 07:31 PM
I own both SKS's and an AK, and I like them both. But given your desire for something smaller, preferably with a folding stock, the AK is really the way to go. You won't lose much accuracy over an SKS, you can get a WASR with a folding stock for $350 or less new, and it'll be legal, so no having to play the 10 or less game. Also, the convenience of being able to buy $10 30rd mags and having spares is nice.

But, they're both good durable guns, I don't think you'd go wrong with either as a truck gun.

epijunkie67
March 24, 2005, 07:43 PM
But given your desire for something smaller, preferably with a folding stock, the AK is really the way to go. You won't lose much accuracy over an SKS, you can get a WASR with a folding stock for $350 or less new

Whats accuracy/reliability like for something like a WASR? I've never owned or fired one before. Do they take standard AK mags? Anyone disagree with something like this in favor of the SKS?

jefnvk
March 24, 2005, 07:45 PM
Good point, forgot about the 10-rd mag.

I'd still rather have a $100 gun in my car at all times though, opposed to a $400 gun. If it is ever stolen or confiscated, well, it can be replaced on the cheap. Not expecting that to happen, but I always like to think ahead.

DMK
March 24, 2005, 08:22 PM
Personally, I'd rather go with Mosin Nagant carbine. They are only like $60 and 7.62x54 hits a lot harder than 7.62x39. Keep a couple clips of softpoints and a couple of FMJ. The rifle is also heavier and has a steel buttplate making it an excellent physical contact weapon.

The bolt action won't look as bad for you as an "assault weapon" should you ever need to use it, God forbid.

My second choice would be a cheap SKS.

Lennyjoe
March 24, 2005, 08:44 PM
I personally woundn't store any gun in my car. I would rather have it on my person rather than in the vehicle. Sometimes when CCWing you have no option but to leave it in the vehicle. Then it goes into a non discrete lock box but for only the time I am in the non CCW location. Cars get stolen like crazy down here and I dont want to leave a weapon for the bad guys if at all possible.

Fred Fuller
March 24, 2005, 09:21 PM
One more vote for 'neither.' I wouldn't get a milsurp boltgun either.

The most innocuous possible choice IMO is a decent used Marlin 336 in .30-30 with a solid set of aperture sights. Yes, everyone sneers at such a choice. That's the point. There won't be a lot of 'buzz' over it compared to any military design, or even a scoped bolt action sporter.

It's easy to shoot, ammo is widely available and not horribly expensive, it's a bit more powerful than the 7.62X39, with a good set of aperture sights it will likely be more accurate too. Cost with good sights added would be a bit more than an SKS, but not out of reach. In your part of the country there should be lots of them around, most everyone recognizes it as either a cowboy gun or a grampaw gun. Better to be thought a redneck than a terrorist should you have to unlimber it...

lpl/nc

epijunkie67
March 24, 2005, 10:49 PM
Personally, I'd rather go with Mosin Nagant carbine
I already own one but this will be in the trunk of my car and the Mosin takes up a lot of room. And god forbid I do use it defensively I wouldn't be comfortable using a bolt action. Anything I get involved in would have to be close range or I'd just drive away and that calls for semiauto.

The most innocuous possible choice IMO is a decent used Marlin 336 in .30-30 with a solid set of aperture sights.
I considered this actually. Partly I wanted something I could fold up due to space considerations in the trunk. I could get a short lever action I guess but it will still never store as small as a folded SKS or AK (or WASR). Aside from that it's a great round.

Lonestar.45
March 24, 2005, 11:58 PM
"Whats accuracy/reliability like for something like a WASR?"

Well, with my Yugo SKS, I do about 2 - 3" groups at 100yds. With the WASR, about 3-4", depending on ammo. The WASR does take standard doublestack AK mags. I can get 30rd mags for $10 each at the gunshow once a month if I want. The WASR is definitely not a top of the line AK, but it is very durable and shoots well. I don't know if I'd leave mine in my trunk or anything because I would be afraid to leave a $350 weapon in my vehicle all the time. But one with a folding stock would probably be easier to store than an SKS, if that's what you want to do. Here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AK_WASR_RIFLE_w__Folding_Stock__Bayonet_Lug__Break.html

In all honesty, if I were looking for a truck gun, I'd probably get a Mossberg Defender 12 gauge with a pistol grip (it's legal where I'm at) for a lot cheaper than a WASR and be done with it. Durability is not an issue with this weapon, and you would devastate any threat 50 yds or less.

clange
March 25, 2005, 01:23 AM
If this is just going to be a beater, get a WASR-10 low cap. Convert it yourself and save $100 or more. You may even do a better job than the guys at CAI. Then toss on a $50 romanian folding stock (worlds better than the tapco pos). I like the 20rd hungarian mags. They look better (IMO) and they're smaller. Easy to find, around $10 new. Edit2: I think the low cap WASRs dont have any US parts? If so you'd need to add some US parts to keep it legal when converted. Cheapest would be a G2 fire control group from tapco ($40), and some US made mag floorplates and followers. The high cap model already has a US fire control group, pistol grip, and gas piston.

Edit: Basically this, but he's had the barrel cut down so a normal wasr would look a little different on the muzzle end. But you get the idea with the folder and 20rd mag.

MAKOwner
March 25, 2005, 05:00 AM
The only folding stocks for the SKS I'm aware of are the ATI pieces of crap, I had one, garbage IMO. The SKS wasn't meant for a pistol grip style stock and with very few exceptions they're pretty lackluster. Crap like too long a reach from the trigger to the pistol grip due to the way the trigger assembly attaches to the gun, etc. The typical aftermarket stocks are also in no way shape or form a rugged military piece. They're all cheap plastic/composite including the folder mechanism and I wouldn't trust them.

I'd go with the WASR or other cheap AK variant and a Romanian side folder stock. That would be a solid setup (I would not get one with the Tapco sidefolder in the add above however, it's also all plastic I believe). True I wouldn't want to lose a $350 gun either but that's still pretty cheap for a rugged reliable gun...

My Romanian AK (SAR1) shoots virtually identical groups to my full size SKS BTW. I think you'd be hard pressed to tell much difference between the two, especially if you're talking about a SKS with the same 16 inch barrel as the AK. The longer barrel on the standard SKS is it's only plus IMO, the trigger is worse, action isn't quite as simple/well designed IMO (though still plenty good compared to most), etc.

If you ditch the folding stock idea and just go for cost the SKS would be fine though IMO. Keep it loaded with the chamber empty and a couple loaded stripper clips in a pouch on the sling or buttstock or something and you'd have a quick handy cheap solution, just a little bigger...

jobu07
March 25, 2005, 08:39 AM
Just my opinion, but of your choices, i'd go with the AK.

cookekdjr
March 25, 2005, 10:27 AM
shooter grade sks. 100 bucks. cheap ammo. dependable as a hammer.
the way to go.

Vic303
March 25, 2005, 10:54 AM
Or you could get a No4 Mk 1 or II Enfield, with 10 rnd magazine & you CAN get extra mags & pre-load them. Makes an excellent club if needed, and has the smoothest fastest action of ANY milsurp bolt rifle, period. Cost is in like with an SKS. If you desire a semi auto, get the SKS, IMHO.

DMK
March 25, 2005, 11:51 AM
... this will be in the trunk of my car and the Mosin takes up a lot of room. And god forbid I do use it defensively I wouldn't be comfortable using a bolt action. Anything I get involved in would have to be close range or I'd just drive away and that calls for semiauto....

... Partly I wanted something I could fold up due to space considerations in the trunk. I could get a short lever action I guess but it will still never store as small as a folded SKS or AK (or WASR)....

Just thowing ideas out, but what about a Kel-Tec SU-16 (http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_rifle.htm)? You can find the basic model as cheap if not cheaper than an AK at gunshows and gun shops now that that everyone wants the newer "tacticool" models.

For close range and in populated areas, I think I'd be more comfortable with the better fragmentation performance of a good .223/5.56 round anyway. Although, the 7.62x39 would probably be better for shooting through a car or some other kind of cover.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22998

DMK
March 25, 2005, 12:00 PM
However, if you are really stuck on 7.62x39, a SAR1 with a folding stock is probably about as compact at you can get without going NFA, expecially if you stuck a Hungarian 20 round mag on it. You could probably find a used one cheap,

It's a cool toy, but personally, I don't think they shoot well enough for serious use. I'd rather put my faith in the AR carbine or one of my SKS. I know I can hit something at 100+ yards with them.

http://home.mchsi.com/~davidkoch/myarms/ARFnSAR.jpg

rockstar.esq
March 25, 2005, 12:40 PM
I know this is the rifle part of the forum however it seems to me that what would solve most if not all of your problems would be a .44 mag revolver! If you are really looking for a personal defense/ hunting rig, it's pretty hard to beat and it's a whole lot smaller than any rifle. Not to mention it's very accurate. Taurus makes reasonably priced revolvers that you can find used for around $300. Just a thought.

pinetree64
March 25, 2005, 01:25 PM
I had a SAR-1, sold it. It rattled and had general loose feel about it. I liked the look, the capacity and (now) the folding stocks.

I do own a Yugo SKS with the grenade laucher. It is milled steal and solidly built. It is very fast to reload with clips. With the extra weight out front and the rubber butt pad is low recoiling and easy to hold on target. I bought this for my truck box, but it is too nice. As were the 3 various Mausers I bought. I will probably pick-up another SKS. The SKS's are a bargain.

What do I carry? A Russian 20g OU in my truck and a Filson game bag with shells. There were in there from a quail hunt and I liked the way the shotgun in the gun sock tucked neatly behind the backseats' headrest. I do shoot shotguns at the range... Of course there is also a compact 1911 handy and a snubby on me.

clange
March 25, 2005, 06:12 PM
When my folder gets here (in the next few days, hopefully) i'll post a pic of a SAR with a folder next to an SKS. The SAR is already like 6" shorter than the SKS with a fixed stock. Now, whether or not that, the pistol grip, and high cap mags are worth the price difference is up to you. Both should be super reliable and ammo is cheap. I cant shoot an AK or an SKS worth a damn, probably because of the sights. With a red dot i can get 3-4" groups at 100yds out of my SAR. Not sure what else you'd need out of a SHTF trunk gun.

SamlautRanger
March 25, 2005, 06:24 PM
I would have to agree with a previous post, that a good ole Marlin 336 in 30-30 would be your best option. Can easily find a used one for around $200. Ammo is easy to find and not that expensive. Does not raise eyebrows. Get a 336 and then but a butt cuff on it with extra ammo, and a sling. If you want to make it more "tactical" you can add ghost ring sights or even attach a scout mount to it and add a scout scope or red dot scope. :D

hammer4nc
March 25, 2005, 08:36 PM
Ruger mini-30 stainless; folding stock, discreet and protective carry case. Tape measure for scale.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=23016&stc=1

mainmech48
March 26, 2005, 03:34 PM
FWIW, you can still get a 20 rd. fixed box mag replacement for the SKS for under $30. Personally, I don't have a problem with the fixed ten-rd. box, as I've found that I can reload it using strippers at least as quickly as I can change boxes. Ditto the 20 rd; just takes two pushes.

For low-buck utility in a semi-auto, it's hard to match. Throw in a surplus chest bandoleer full of loaded strippers for 180 rds, your solvent/oil bottle, C-tool for the sights and a wad of patches, all in one easily toted package.

Zach S
March 26, 2005, 03:51 PM
A mini-30 cost a few bucks more than an AK, and a few bucks more than that for one in stainless (ok, its more than a few bucks, but I cant recall how much). Magazines arent cheap and plentiful as they are with AK variants, even if you count the USA mags which rarely work in, um, anything.

Gewehr98
March 26, 2005, 11:26 PM
Perhaps a SAR-1 with sidefolder? ;)

http://mauser98.com/sar1woodfolded.jpg

epijunkie67
March 26, 2005, 11:47 PM
DMK
Just thowing ideas out, but what about a Kel-Tec SU-16?
I own one. It does fold up great I was just hoping for a bigger round since this is a general purpose weapon. If it was strictly antipersonel I'd use it. You know if Kel-Tec made that thing is 7.62X39 it would fly off the shelf!

rockstar.esq
I know this is the rifle part of the forum however it seems to me that what would solve most if not all of your problems would be a .44 mag revolver! If you are really looking for a personal defense/ hunting rig, it's pretty hard to beat and it's a whole lot smaller than any rifle. Not to mention it's very accurate.
Accurate yes, for a revolver. I doubt I'd be taking many 60-100 yard shots with it.

hammer4nc
Ruger mini-30 stainless;
I don't own one but I considered this option strongly. But I've heard so many terrible things about this rifle on numerous forums I was very leary of trying it. I've heard a lot of negative things about the reliability, accuracy, and durability of the ruger mini-30. Which is a shame since it fits every one of my criteria otherwise.

OEF_VET
March 27, 2005, 02:27 AM
Just an FYI, your TN Handgun Carry Permit does not extend to longguns. IOW, you can not carry a loaded longgun in your vehicle. However, it isn't that difficult to slap a mag into an AK-clone and rack the bolt.

If you decide to go with an AK, drop me a PM. I have a hi-cap, no-ban WASR-10 with a metal folding stock that I'm looking to sell.

Frank

klover
March 27, 2005, 12:43 PM
I'd go with a lever in .44 or 30-30. Way more accurate than the sks (I love the sks too), can use matched revolver back up, Big-5 gets you a new one for $300, ammo has no varnish, can reload "on the fly", more politically correct, way lethal in the big hole department of .44, great resale value, better machining and fits, American built, very handy, and just plain neat. :)

My truck gun is an M-6 in SS single shot .410 with .22! Way small, and usually I have some small pistol around anyway. :neener:

clange
March 28, 2005, 11:55 PM
SKS vs. SAR-1 with folder

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/clange/sar-sks1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/clange/sar-sks2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/clange/sar-sks3.jpg

Just got the folding stock today. Had to work on both the screws (which was a major pain in the ass, until i found the bench grinder). The short screw was too long, and the head on the long screw was too big to fit in the trunnion hole.

lwsimon
March 29, 2005, 12:08 AM
Here's something else to think about: If you need this gun for defense, chances are it will be in a parking lot. If you are under fire, its going to be hard to get a gun from a case in a trunk of toolbox.. I propose welding a steel box a little bigger than your gun, but square in shape. Weld it up under your truck on the drivers side, against the frame, out of view and higher than the sheet metal of the body. Pad the inside, and put a simple latch on it. Inside, put whatever gun you choose, and forget about it. I'd caulk the corners, and maybe see if i couldn't get a gasket. IOW, make it weatherproof. With this, you can drop to the ground, have cover and concealment, get your weapon, and return aimed fire. If you have time to get in your trunk or toolbox, chances are you had time to retreat, and that's not going to look real good in court. Then again, my idea is rather off the wall, and might - well, honestly, almost surely would - label you as a nutjob, but I think you'd have a better chance of demonstrating a justifiable shoot.

Just an idea.

jval
March 29, 2005, 07:20 PM
Things aren't that bad yet (in the parking lots in San Diego). I am more concerned about someone coming into my house/bedroom at night and catching me off guard. My house is my turf and I know my rights...no questions!!

TimboKhan
September 24, 2005, 03:38 PM
Well, for what its worth, I am a HUGE fan of the SKS, if for no other reason than that the two that I have are so reliable as to be dull. I personally am not worried about having to engage targets in a parking lot at distances longer than what my pistol can reach, but I do actually use one of my SKS's as a home defense rifle. Its imported by a company called "Poly-Tech" and comes under the name "Hunter". Its a standard SKS except that the barrel has been cut down right under where the bayonet lug would be, meaning that its about 3 inches or so shorter than a standard SKS. Mine only has a 5 round clip, which isn't ideal, but I am giving up capacity for "handiness", and I can hit very reliably with this rifle up to about 150-200 yards.

Clean97GTI
September 24, 2005, 03:56 PM
The SKS has the Mosin-Nagant beat in almost every area save for the ability to reach out long distances. 54R is just better than 39.
As for using it as a club should you run out, the SKS weighs plenty and old Mosin-Nagant steel butt plates are cheap. Grind it to fit and notch the SKS stock accordingly. Viola, a cheap weapon capable of even nastier butt strokes...not that the wood couldn't do a sufficient job on someones noggin.

You could also cut the big wooden stock of the SKS down and attach a folding stock from something else. It wouldn't be pretty, but it would work. Depending on the length of the barrel, you could also trim that down. Make a knife out of the bayonet just because.
The other thing that appeals to me is should the car be stolen, you're only losing a $100 rifle.

I'd be much more upset knowing that my $300 AK or $300 Marlin carbine got lost...not to mention my car.

Zundfolge
September 24, 2005, 03:58 PM
What exactly is the purpose of a "Truck Gun"? :confused:

Is it for self defense (two legged predator)? Typically a handgun will fill that role just fine.

Is if for animal self defense? Then I think a much more powerful bolt action as you probably won't be up against a dozen bears ... more likely just one (and the extra power would be nice).

Is it for impromptu hunting? If thats the case, there's probably rules in your state about hunting with a magazine capacity over 5rds. And again, I'd rather hunt with a 7.62x54r then a 7.62x39.

Is it for impromptu target shooting? Then I'd think the SKS would be just fine...maybe put some Mojo's on it.

Is it for being caught away from the house and your serious guns in a SHTF? In which case I imagine the AK with a bag of mags would be better then an SKS since it may end up being your primary SHTF rifle.

Cpl Punishment
September 24, 2005, 04:19 PM
To answer your question, between your desired choices, I'd take the AK.

Many people have bought cheap SKSs with the intent of putting on all kinds of neat folding stocks, different magazines, etc, and just find out that the SKS isn't very tolerant of that and they go out and buy an AK, spending twice what they would have to just get the AK they wanted in the first place.


Now, a couple of questions: What's this really going to be used for?
If you're keeping this in your trunk, if you have enough time, in a defensive situation, to break cover, stay exposed long enough to opent he trunk, get the rifle and ammo out, load the rifle, etc, then it's going to be hard to justify why you didn't just leave.

If you're thinking of something like the Texas courthouse shooting, the LA Bank of America robbery or something similar, then explain how the much more powerful Mosin would not be a better choice.

If you want to impromptu hunt, the bolt gun, lever action, etc would be better choices. In most states you can "justify" having a bolt or levergun a lot more easily than an AK.

FWIW, most people, including cops, don't know what a Mosin Nagant is, much less associate it with being a military rifle (mine often get mistaken for a frontstuffer as they think the cleaning rod is a ramrod, and the folded bayonet makes more senso to people on a Revolution-era musket than a modern bolt gun.).

Father Knows Best
September 24, 2005, 04:43 PM
I'm a big fan of leverguns, and would generally recommend one here -- either a Marlin 336 or 94 or Winchester 94 in .357, .44 mag, .30-30, etc. I think a significant problem, though, is the one pointed out by OEF_VET -- it is apparently illegal to carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle. That makes it difficult to use a levergun here, because they have tubular mags that cannot generally be loaded very quickly. A detachable box magazine allows you to load and go much more quickly.

benEzra
September 24, 2005, 06:02 PM
Personally, if I were going to keep a rifle in my trunk, it'd be something pretty cheap, since it is likely to rust unless you live in a REALLY dry climate. I once left my stainless Ranch mini-14 in the trunk of my car for a few days while we were in the process of moving from a mobile home to a house in Florida, and the STAINLESS STEEL rusted (fortunately it was superficial enough to clean up with some Rem Oil, a few cleaning patches, and lots of elbow grease).

You also have to worry about theft; think of some way to secure it from someone who smashes your window and pops your trunk release. If you store an unlocked, loaded rifle in your trunk and some clown steals it and shoots someone with it, you could be looking at some significant civil liability. At the very least put a cable lock through the action and around a structural member in the trunk, or install a big eyebolt that you can padlock the thing to (just be careful of the gas tank when deciding where to put one).

Between the choice of a cheap SKS and an AK lookalike, I'd say the SKS fits the bill better solely because it's cheaper. An old M44 may be even cheaper still, and if you stash the bolt somewhere else in your car then it'll be useless to anyone who might happen to steal it, even if you store it with a loaded magazine.

MechAg94
October 15, 2005, 08:42 PM
I would say the SKS, mil-surp bolt, or lever gun. Pick whatever you think fits the bill for your situation. All can be had fairly cheap. All fit the utility required.

BUT, I would say if you are concerned that you might have problems with EBR fright, a lever gun might be more practical in some situations. That may not be a problem in all cases. Some places, they might throw the book at you for any rifle (or at least try).

dasmi
October 15, 2005, 08:59 PM
I keep my M44 in my truck. Unloaded, of course, as per california rules. At $79 bucks, if it gets stolen, I won't cry.
http://my.opera.com/servicesix/homes/albums/5702/m44_case.jpg

sigma 40ve
October 15, 2005, 09:10 PM
I'll throw in a new loop. What about a shotgun instead? IMO it's hard to beat buck and slugs. You'd be surprised what a field/hunting load will do to a car. A friend used to own a junkyard and about every couple of months 5-6 of us would get an invite to come over for a day of car shooting. I learned to appreciate shotguns for SD there when I seen the results on autos.:cool:

garrett1955
October 15, 2005, 10:15 PM
Just thowing ideas out, but what about a Kel-Tec SU-16 (http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_rifle.htm)? You can find the basic model as cheap if not cheaper than an AK at gunshows and gun shops now that that everyone wants the newer "tacticool" models.

For close range and in populated areas, I think I'd be more comfortable with the better fragmentation performance of a good .223/5.56 round anyway. Although, the 7.62x39 would probably be better for shooting through a car or some other kind of cover.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22998



hey thats a cool looking rifle...
since i never seen one before, how accurate are they and how well do the perform??
thanks.

jculp
October 15, 2005, 10:50 PM
hey thats a cool looking rifle...
since i never seen one before, how accurate are they and how well do the perform??
thanks.


I like mine a lot. I bought it from a member of this forum, actually.

Accuracy -- I dunno, I haven't fired it much long-range. I hear it's pretty good, though.

It hasn't given me any problems w.r.t. performance. It's reasonably cheap, it's fun, it takes AR mags. Good stuff.

/lurk again...

garrett1955
October 15, 2005, 11:30 PM
I like mine a lot. I bought it from a member of this forum, actually.

Accuracy -- I dunno, I haven't fired it much long-range. I hear it's pretty good, though.

It hasn't given me any problems w.r.t. performance. It's reasonably cheap, it's fun, it takes AR mags. Good stuff.

/lurk again...


sweet! thanks

762X39
October 17, 2005, 10:12 PM
I didn't read all the posts but my 2 cents worth is go with the SKS. Haven't you folks ever heard of stripper clips? I used them all the time in the service to top up my magazines and I even use them on my 6.5. I tried them this summer on my shooting buddies SKS (she thought they were the coolest thing). The "10 round game" is a load of bs if ever I heard one. There is no problem I could not solve in the first 3 rounds. After that you retreat to hardened shelter and rethink your options.
As I said, it is just my opinion.

Regards

John

Rob1035
October 18, 2005, 12:24 AM
I know this won't be popular, but for defense (two legged), I would consider a Kel Tek Sub2000, either 9mm or .40, used cheap and plentiful Glock mags, and folds down to a very small size. If you have a glock in 9mm or .40, its a perfect companion. If you live in a silly state with capacity restrictions, I'd look elsewhere though.

Commissar Gribb
October 18, 2005, 05:16 AM
AK pistol :D

fits in with the spare- drop it in with a spare mag and leave it.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/AK/AK_Pistol_Nickel.jpg

possum
October 18, 2005, 08:36 AM
I love my ak but those sks paratroopers are awesome they are light and handy and you don't have to fumble around with magazines, and that is a great price I wish there was more competition around here maybe there would be better prices but things are almost to high here. I think you will be very pleased with the paratrooper and with 10 rds of wolf 154gr sp, or silver bear 125 gr sp you can't beat it.

aaronrkelly
October 19, 2005, 05:17 AM
I have both an AK and SKS and the SKS is what I choose for my trunk. Cheap, dependable and reliable under some pretty crappy conditions. The ATI folders are J-U-N-K......but Choate makes a nice folder for the SKS. Its $100 and can be found at the very bottom of this page:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=4210&title=PISTOL+GRIP+STOCK

But adding that to your $175 SKS puts you in the range of the standard WASR-10 high cap - they are going for around $289.

Commissar Gribb
October 19, 2005, 05:31 AM
and you don't have to fumble around with magazines,

or you could just slap a 30 or 40 round mag in and not have to fumble with stripper clips after every 10 shots.

benEzra
October 19, 2005, 08:41 AM
I have both an AK and SKS and the SKS is what I choose for my trunk. Cheap, dependable and reliable under some pretty crappy conditions. The ATI folders are J-U-N-K......but Choate makes a nice folder for the SKS.
Just be aware that you can't do that on an SKS imported after the Bush the Elder import ban was enacted, later codified into 18 USC 922. Putting a folding stock on a post-import-ban SKS would be "assembly of an unimportable imported rifle" and would be a Federal felony violation of 18 USC 922(r), unless you change enough other parts that you only have 10 or fewer imported parts as defined by the law. Ditto for Saigas, etc.

Civvie AK lookalikes with the traditional pistol-grip style stock are OK to add folders to, however, because they already have enough U.S. made parts to not fall under the 922(r) regs.

Andrew S
October 19, 2005, 12:10 PM
Add me as another shotgun vote.


It seems to me like you need to fully think over what you need this for and the strategy you would take in different situations where you would need it.

You mention you need a 200 yard range but then you say you need semiauto because you would only use it in close range or you would drive away.

If its definately between the AK and SKS I would definately choose the SKS. The only advantage of the AK to me is the detachable 30rd mags which doesnt really start to be a benefit for me until there are several armed targets advancing.

aaronrkelly
October 19, 2005, 02:43 PM
or you could just slap a 30 or 40 round mag in and not have to fumble with stripper clips after every 10 shots.


Then you get to clear a malfunction every 3 or 4 rounds or so - SKS and detachable mags = junk

jobu07
October 19, 2005, 02:49 PM
Actually, it shouldn't so much be SKS + detachable mags = junk as it should be SKS + aftermarket mags = junk. The SKS D or M, whichever you prefer, that is set up from the factory to accept detachable AK mags seem to work just fine ;)

possum
October 19, 2005, 02:53 PM
What are planning on taking head on with a 40 rd magazine, for a trunk gun?
What could you possible get in a fight with that 10rds of 7.62 can't handle, a possum :) or a wild boar. if you need to carry forty rds around something is wrong, and it should no longer be a "trunk" gun

aaronrkelly
October 19, 2005, 02:54 PM
Actually, it shouldn't so much be SKS + detachable mags = junk as it should be SKS + aftermarket mags = junk. The SKS D or M, whichever you prefer, that is set up from the factory to accept detachable AK mags seem to work just fine ;)


Agreed - unfortuneatly most people grab dem an SKS and sum a dem der benana clips.......the SKS-M and SKS-D never crosses their mind.

Wonder how hard they are to find, I have honestly never handled one....Ive seen them on Gunbroker and they go in low AK range.

jobu07
October 19, 2005, 03:04 PM
Good friend of mine has one. Interestingly enough, he found it for sale in the local classified ads. Grabbed it uber cheap too! :D They are fun, but i'd prefer an AK any day of hte week.

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