correct for the era 1911 extractor WWI


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trapperjohn
March 24, 2005, 12:32 PM
earlier i posted this thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=129629

about an early 1911 I had run across

Unfortunately I took 1911 tuners advice :neener: :neener: and shot the gun

Actually, i couldnt have resisted anyway :D and shot the thing. Went flawlessly through a magazine and a half, then no more ejection. I looked at the gun and the extractor is now broken :cuss: :cuss:

where in the world can I find a correct for the era extractor for this old girl

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1911Tuner
March 24, 2005, 03:23 PM
Dang! And after all that braggin' I been doin' on those old extractors. :banghead:

:D

Trapper...You probably ain't gonna find one unless ya get lucky and find somebody that's got a junker they're gonna part out AND it still has an
original or correct extractor.

The happy news is that so many extractors were made by so many different military contractors...from the same stuff and the same specs...that if you can find about any good GI extractor, it'll be almost correct. The finish may not match though.

The other good news is that...if you're a pretty fair hand at blending, you can
fit any good extractor to the gun and sorta "antique" it...and make it look right. At least it won't look like a Wilson Bulletproof or Brown Hardcore if you're careful. Some of mine have fooled all but the keenest eyes... :evil:

Check your PMs...I might have somethin' that'll help. :cool:

dsk
March 24, 2005, 03:52 PM
Wow, that's actually first GI extractor failure I've heard of. Those things were nearly indestructible, and gave the military 1911's their reputation for reliability. Conversely, the cheap cast or MIM extractors found in most new 1911's are largely responsible for the current bad rap for poor reliability.

Kruzr
March 24, 2005, 03:58 PM
Who uses cast or MIM extractors these days?? Colt used to use MIM but who else?

1911Tuner
March 24, 2005, 04:03 PM
Dana said:

Wow, that's actually first GI extractor failure I've heard of.
*****************

Yep...It's only the third one that I've heard of. One was an original that was in an Ithaca that had been rode hard and put up wet...and the other one was in a '44 Colt that was PROBABLY original. The Ithaca was being shot with
the WRONG magazines when it let go. The Colt? Likely just tired and wore slap out.

All is not lost! I have located a serviceable '18 extractor for the man, and it'll be wingin' its way westward by Monday! Also found a half-dozen *ahem*
NEW WW2 USGI extractors...all slightly out of spec on the shape of the butt-end...but fine otherwise. How cool izzat? Never know what I might find when I dig deep enough... :rolleyes:

dsk
March 24, 2005, 04:37 PM
Who uses cast or MIM extractors these days?? Colt used to use MIM but who else?

Colt uses barstock now. However I had one lose tension so I think they're not always tempered correctly. Kimber and Springfield, lower-end Wilsons, and pretty much everybody else below the $1500 price point use either cast or MIM. You have to go up to a Les Baer or high-end Wilson before you start seeing decent extractors as OEM equipment.

Pretty sad, huh?

Seraph
March 24, 2005, 04:42 PM
Actually, though they sometimes are reported to be improperly tuned, or even untuned, it looks like Springfield may be using forged extractors: http://www.springfield-armory.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=216

Old Fuff
March 24, 2005, 04:58 PM
Back in the late 50 and early 60's there was a lot of steel-cased military surplus hardball on the market, and it would do in an extractor in short order. Part of the reason was the shape and size of the rim and extractor cut. This was not a great problem because USGI extractors were dirt cheap, but in time we learned to relagate steel cased ammunition to revolvers and sub-maching guns, for which I think it was largely intended.

The 1917 model in question might have had the extractor cracked, and the most recent shooting finished it off.

trapperjohn
March 24, 2005, 05:11 PM
also. I can not guarantee that the extractor is original. I have not seen any from that era. For all i know it was added sometime in the last 80 some years

1911Tuner
March 24, 2005, 06:27 PM
Springfield has always used machined barstock extractors, save for a short time when they first jumped into the market, and some cast ones were in their guns. They quickly saw the error of their ways, and started specifying steel extractors. Kimber too, uses machined steel extractors, though I remember hearing that they dabbled briefly with MIM and got weaned from that folly.

Colt is the only major manufacturer that used MIM extractors in large enough numbers to draw attention to'em...and now that they've returned to machined barstock parts, most of the extractor breakages that they were
having have disappeared.

Machined barstock extractors aren't necessarily GOOD extractors...They're just better than MIM or investment castings. A proper 1911 extractor is a
spring, and to perform correctly as a spring, the steel must be of a certain alloy that has been correctly hardened and drawn to spring temper. If this is tended to, the extractor will outlast the gun, and it won't need much in the way of tension adjustment once it's correctly set.

I have USGI extractors that are nearing 80 years old that have been through
multiple gun rebuilds...without needing anything beyond periodic cleaning. They have literally worn out the guns...and have gone on to function perfectly in other guns, and have done so for more thousands of rounds than I have been able to keep track of. Extractors that have been stored with
tension against the rim of a chambered round for 5 or 6 decades and not only held tension, but performed flawlessly when the guns were fired.

Springfield recently went through a period with their extractors not holding tension for more than 500 to a thousand rounds...no matter how they were tweaked or tuned. They've obviously corrected the problem, and things are much better. Whether they'll stack up against a 1090 spring-tempered extractor over the long haul is unknown. Only time will tell, and only the young'uns amongst us will be able to say. I know that we hear of this pistol or that pistol that has done well for 500 or 5,000 rounds...but that's not really the true test of its mettle. Come forward in the year 2070 and show
us pistols that have been through 3 or 4 rebuilds and 200,000 rounds...with the same extractor. Then we'll know...

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