A world where guns are not needed?


March 24, 2005, 07:34 PM
I seem to be in a philosophical mood today so I'll continue on with this topic. ;)

I've heard from a number of gun enthusiasts or just people who see the need to have a gun for defense that they'd gladly give up their guns to live in a world where guns were not needed. I was thinking about this statement and it struck me that I just can't agree with it. To be perfectly honest such a world sounds incredibly boring and dull and I can't see myself living in it.

I've heard military people, especially special forces, call it the "warrior mentality", and if there is such a thing I'd have to say I definately have it. I've spent close to my whole life training and waiting for my chance to deploy my skills in the defense of myself, others or my country, and personally a world where that was not needed would seem to strip away my whole purpose in life.

Throughout my life I had gone back and forth on whether I wanted to go into the military, where I felt I had a higher chance of seeing combat and being able to employ my skills, or civilian law enforcement, where I felt I had more freedom with how to do my job and not be trapped in a bad military unit with my hands tied. In the end just before I was set to ship out for the military I was hired in law enforcement so that was the route I chose.

As I watch quite a number of my fellow officers come to work, however, and treat it as "just a job" I truely wonder if anyone else share's my feelings. Whenever there is a critical incident I always wish that I was able to be there and maybe I could have made a difference. Most people I see are instead saying "thank God I wasn't there" or "man I'd have ran so fast outta there...."

The same people constantly rag on me for always carrying my gun off duty. A lot think that I'm paranoid and wonder why I need a gun for defense, but that's really not the case at all. The reason I carry is because if I were to find myself in one of those critical incidents it would absolutely drive me crazy to be caught with my pants down with no weapon after all the years of training and preparing. It has nothing to do with being "scared" to go out without it. Even among gun owners I find the attitude that they'd rather just "get away" instead of standing your ground and possibly making a difference is very prevelant.

So in closing, am I the only one who thinks this way or are there others out there who are not speaking up? It's extremely frustrating that no one seems to understand my point of view. What are you thoughts and opinions?

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March 24, 2005, 07:59 PM
If a world devoid of violence would take away your purpose in life, maybe you need to reevaluate some things. Just my opinion.

In reality, this will never happen so it's a moot philosophical point.

March 24, 2005, 08:10 PM
I don't think it matters what the response to "world without guns" is.

Such a world is even less likely than a world without humans. There would have to be changes to the laws of physics to prevent firearms from working. On the other hand, a world without humans is very plausible... unless you believe humans were created in some manner by God.

A world without guns could mean that there'd be no way to generate electricity, or start a fire. So many things would be different that not having guns would be the least of our worries, if life as we know it were even possible.

cracked butt
March 24, 2005, 08:17 PM
If the world were completely devoid of all guns and there were no crime or no reason to own one for self defense, I would still figure out how to make one because I love launching projectiles so much :cool:

Standing Wolf
March 24, 2005, 08:37 PM
I'd still be a bullseye target shooter.

Guy B. Meredith
March 24, 2005, 08:51 PM
Forget violence and self defense. My primary use for firearms is pure and simple recreation: marksmanship, IPSC, ICORE and plinking. Same for thousands of other competitors, not to mention hunters and shotgunners.

A world without guns would be a world without a fine recreational option. So I guess it would be a "my recreation (soccer, etc.) is more sacred than your shooting recreation"? I don't think we need to sacrifice a fine non-violent sport like shooting in favor of violent sports like basketball, soccer, et al. (Ever seen police or armed guards managing security at a major league soccer match? Baseball? Basketball? Shooting match?)

Old Fuff
March 24, 2005, 09:00 PM
It may come as a shock to some, but the principal reason I’m “into guns” isn’t because of self-protection, although that is an important benefit, and I am trained and licensed to do that if it becomes necessary.

No, the main reason is because I enjoy them. I enjoy tinkering with them. I learn from they’re history. I shoot for fun and relaxation, and the challenge marksmanship presents. In a violence free world nothing of this would change, but I would ask two questions …

When has the world, or any part of it, been truly violence free?

And is my life, or the life of others not worth defending from predators, both human and otherwise? :scrutiny:

March 24, 2005, 09:02 PM
Perish the thought.

I'd no sooner live in a world without guns than a world without fine literature, good coffee, pretty girls, thought-provoking films, or aged single malt Scotch.

A world without guns would truly be a dull and dreary place of which I'd want no part.

March 24, 2005, 09:20 PM
am I the only one who thinks this way

Not at all. I'm right there with ya, on all points.

March 24, 2005, 09:28 PM
Not at all. I'm right there with ya, on all points.

Phew ok at least I'm not alone. :)

March 24, 2005, 09:33 PM
A world where guns are not needed
Would never Happen without some kind of "Devine Intervention"
100% Impossable with Humankind.

March 24, 2005, 09:37 PM
I think that a number of people misunderstood the question.

Yes, I'd kinda like a world without a need for guns. However, it would take a different form of humanity.

Why? Well, why wouldn't we need guns? Because we'd all be vegetarian pacifists. Or if not pacifists, at least peaceful enough to consider a sports game a valid substitute for war, or something. No Dahmer/Osama/Saddam types.

I think that you'd have to remove or suppress some rather important drives in order to get this result, resulting in a humanity that would die off, unable to fight off other species for survival.

After all, what is a gun? A device that throws or shoots a projectile. A bow/blowgun/sling is not really different in this effect. A firearm is simply the latest and most effective version of this line of devices (projectile weapons).

March 24, 2005, 09:40 PM
What Justin said.

I also agree it is a moot philosophical point because you could go on and on forever and not arrive at any sort of understanding.

March 24, 2005, 09:43 PM
I'm not much of a philosopher however, I've often heard people lament that if only we had a world without X how peaceful and wounderful it would be. Reminds me of the utopoian song "Imagine". This type of utopia thinking is silly. It completely ignores that fact that the utopia yearned for will not occur until gun, nuclear arms,or X are not used for immoral reasons. It is Mankinds NATURE that must change. Keeping things from mankind does not bring utopia. Some believe mankind will evolve over time to change his nature.Some think the force of government will do this. Some believe only man himself with his free will can overcome his nature. Some believe it takes mans freewill and God's intervention to change. I believe the last concept. For this utopia is written about "When the lamb will lay down with the lion" When all nature will be changed or I might say all of creation which yearns for this utopia. Dang what happened to me :uhoh:

Bear Gulch
March 24, 2005, 11:57 PM
I'd like such a world, and until it arrives I'll continue being armed.

I really think that we need to embrace the warrior. WHile depicted in the media as loners and misfits, how many of us have worn the uniform of our country. How many of our dads, uncles, grandads, etc took up arms to insure us the life that we enjoy today. The warrior (not the killer) represents some of the highest aspirations of mankind.

It makes me sick that kids today all know who snoop dog and other "heros" are, while few know who John Wainwright, Alvin York, Audie Murphy, or Joe Foss are. We need to take pride in our warriors, not shun them!

March 25, 2005, 12:49 AM
only in a "BRAve New World"
where all humans are engineered to the same physical strength, and people either completely lose the ability to throw things, or are somehow aLL equally armed with baseballs, and accuratearms to throw them with.

for now, as long as there are big people and little people, there will be guns

March 25, 2005, 05:36 AM
Until a few years ago I thought the world of the future, hopefully my future, would look like StarTrek. Seriously, I expected that, except with more asians and other minorities. But you get the idea, I figured StarTrek was what everyone generally agreed we would aim for. Turns out I was wrong:(

Honestly I figured Everyone just agreed that was the model we were working towards,

March 25, 2005, 07:01 AM
Yeah, but they still have 'guns' even in StarTrek. Need to use them fairly often too.

Heck, from what I've seen most households off the beaten path carry weapons. Even cargo ships are armed(if only with a joke weapon).

Now settling some issues and raising more people right instead of as criminals, that'd be nice. But there'll still be a need for guns.

March 25, 2005, 07:56 AM
I've spent close to my whole life training and waiting for my chance to deploy my skills in the defense of myself, others or my country, and personally a world where that was not needed would seem to strip away my whole purpose in life.

Don't worry. As long as there are people on both sides that believe thier purpose in life is to shoot people from opposing countries, we will have state of the art weapons.

March 25, 2005, 08:49 AM
If you're talking about a world without guns:

Without guns, the exercise of power comes down to how many soldiers a leader can arm and train. Gangs can organize and easily pick on individuals, so you need to join with others to protect your home or your farm.

In the past, individuals pledged allegiance to a baron, duke, king or whatever to band together and protect a defined land from invaders. Guns allow individuals to protect ourselves, our families and our land from invaders WITHOUT the need to owe allegiance to a "lord" who can protect us.

America was founded during a time that technology allowed one man or one family to take on a gang of thugs and win. In larger or international conflicts, loose coalitions who knew how to use guns -- militias -- could band together as needed and disband when the conflict was over. This affected our founding documents, our government structure and our character.

Without guns, violence becomes more pervasive and defense from that violence needs a lot more of our sons.

If you are talking about a world without violence:

"I can imagine a world without hate, a world without war, a world without fear. And I can imagine us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." -Jack Handy-

March 25, 2005, 10:55 AM
A world without violence would be a quiet world indeed as there would be no people in it. Some of the emotions and characteristics that make up the good things in mankind such as love, honor, compassion, etc... have their counterparts that are the opposite side of the same coin. Unless you can fundamentaly change the human makeup, it is not possible.

A world full of lobotimized or drug sedated people without the will to do either good or evil does not a paradise make. More like a zoo where are the animals are kept tranqualized for "their" own good.

As long as people are in it there will always be violence.

Zach S
March 25, 2005, 11:10 AM
We would still have THR, and we would be discussing the latest BS release from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Sword Violence who is still blaming the NSA for the demise of the ASB.

March 25, 2005, 11:18 AM
If there existed a world that did not need guns, such a world would also not need to ban them.

March 25, 2005, 11:20 AM
If you go hiking in the Mountains, what are you going to carry to ward off a grizzly attack, if not a gun? Or in this gun free world do we just give up hiking in the wilderness?

The only way there could be a gun free world, or a weapon of any type free world, is if there were a violence free world with no big scary animals to worry about. I don't see it happening, so I will spend my idle time dreaming about other things that I can see happening. Nice thought though, just the same.

March 25, 2005, 12:00 PM
I have often told people who want to "do away" with all guns, that the only way that would be possible would be to travel back in time and "de-invent" the firearm, or gunpowder or what have you. However, if you were to do so, I suspect you might be very unpleasantly surprised by the world you returned to.

If a world devoid of violence would take away your purpose in life, maybe you need to reevaluate some things.

While I didn't hear him say that violence was his sole purpose in life, I can definitely appreciate the meaning. Man is violent by nature, and attempts to supress human nature inevitably meet with failure. For many people of the warrior mentality, the highest plane of mortal existence, the point at which one is most alive, is when engaged in a life-or-death struggle against another. That is the only time when one truly lays it ALL on the line, and there is something very liberating about that idea.

After all, most men are competitive by nature, and what higher level of competition is there than that where only the winner is left standing? Some pacifists wonder what possesses other men to volunteer to go to war. It's a complicated question, but I think that deep-rooted competitive spirit plays a big role, in addition to patriotism, sense of duty and nobility, etc.

March 25, 2005, 12:19 PM
I would not want to live in a world devoid of coyotes, wolves, cougars, and bears.

I also don't want to live in a world where those and other dangerous animals are all confined in zoos, nor a world in which I am prevented from visiting wild lands (locked in an urban environment).

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