Damn! Missed the mountain!


PDA






Warren
March 25, 2005, 03:16 AM
UDOT shells backyard with 105.

BOOM! (http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=157880)

If you enjoyed reading about "Damn! Missed the mountain!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mete
March 25, 2005, 04:16 AM
OOOPS!! One source said that they put too much powder in the round .

Braz
March 25, 2005, 05:00 AM
Mr. Incredible: I'm fired, aren't I?
Rick: Ya think! :uhoh:

yorec
March 25, 2005, 06:22 AM
Quite the hole to find in your back yard, eh? :what:

TheOtherOne
March 25, 2005, 07:13 AM
I thought I heard them say on the news the house was over 7 miles away from where the round was fired!

griz
March 25, 2005, 07:37 AM
Wow. If UDOT doesn't have a vacancy soon I would be surprized.

INCOMING! :uhoh:

Bear Gulch
March 25, 2005, 10:42 AM
Griz be prepared to be surprised.

trapperjohn
March 25, 2005, 10:47 AM
I'm the only one on this mountain professional enough to.........

Warbow
March 25, 2005, 10:51 AM
Yikes! :eek:

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2005, 12:12 PM
Having been stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma (The Field Artillery Center and School), you hear a lot of stories like that. It doesn't happen often, but every decade or so someone in the town of Lawton will get a free swimming pool.

When I was Deputy Operations Officer for the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea, one night I got rousted out out of bed to answer a question from 8th Army, "Are you firing artillery?"

I checked the board, no one scheduled to fire that night. "Nope."

Half an hour later, I got woken up again. "Are you sure? 8th ROK division says you shelled their officer's mess."

"Hmmm . . . what time are we talking about?"

"Wait. I'll get back to you. <long pause> Eight o'clock this morning."

"Well, why didn't you say that at first? Yes. We had a battery firing from 4P1."

It turns out they were firing two vollies, one platoon (that is, two guns firing, two shells from each.) The observer only saw two shells burst in the impact area. So some genius decided to check by shooting the mission again.

Same thing, four rounds fired, only two bursts observed.

"Okay, we'll try it again -- this time, right by piece." (one gun fires, then the other fires.)

The observer saw the first shell burst, then heard a "BOOM!" behind him.

After some consultation, they decided to keep quiet about it.

You should have heard the ROK's side of the story! "First they shell us. BOOM-BOOM! We wait five minutes, and go back to look for damage. BOOM-BOOM! We wait ten minuted and go back. BOOM!" :D

mete
March 25, 2005, 12:13 PM
'I wonder what a little more powder would do?'....We were attacked by the avalanche, it was self defense'....'I'm not sure they will call this "a good shoot" ' and for those old enough to remember Chickin' lickin' - "the sky's falling !!!'

svtruth
March 25, 2005, 12:17 PM
There is a great account of (I think) Oregon's DOT blowing up a dead whale with dynamite, and showering spectators with rotting blubber,
Department of 'Tupidity?

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2005, 12:20 PM
Quote:
---------------------------------
'I wonder what a little more powder would do?'....
---------------------------------

The 105 Howitzer (like all American artillery) uses a zoned charge. There are seven "zones" or "charges." The Fire Direction Center, in computing the mission selects the charge.

The projectile is simply a slip fit in the case, and you take the projectile out and the charge is in seven cloth bags, all connected with thread. Let's say the FDC has announced, "Charge 5." You lift the charges, and leave the last two charges (6 and 7) hanging over the lip of the case and replace the projectile. On order, you break the string and hold the two extra charges up over your head so the safety officer can see them.

If they used "too much powder" clearly the safety officer was asleep at the switch.

C

charby
March 25, 2005, 12:27 PM
If that was my back yard, I'd be cleaning my drawers out right after the shell hit.

Wingshooter
March 25, 2005, 12:31 PM
I'm the only one on this mountain professional enough to.........

LOL beat me to it!

SLCDave
March 25, 2005, 12:36 PM
Another Report from the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_2621477)
Shell misses mountain, lands in neighborhood
No one hurt: Dad says shrapnel just missed his 3-year-old son "by inches"; UDOT takes full responsibility

By Lisa Rosetta
The Salt Lake Tribune

A 20-pound artillery shell loaded with too much gunpowder overshot its Provo Canyon avalanche target Wednesday by about three miles, exploding in the back yard of a Pleasant Grove couple and piercing three homes with shrapnel.
Remarkably, no one was injured.
Now the Utah Department of Transportation is scrambling to understand what went wrong and make sure it never happens again.
"We took full responsibility for this incident and we're extremely grateful no one was hurt," said Carlos Braceras, deputy director of UDOT.
Around 3 p.m., atop Arrowhead Peak, UDOT fired the 105 mm shell from a howitzer artillery cannon - leased from the U.S. military - toward the Lost Creek slide path area in Provo Canyon about two miles away.
But the shell kept going.
The military sends the shells to UDOT pre-loaded with seven packages of gunpowder. The operators were supposed to remove two. Instead, it was fired fully loaded, and rocketed into the residential neighborhood.
UDOT didn't realize the shell had exploded in Scott Connors' back yard at 1665 E. 480 South - creating a 3-foot-wide crater that was a foot deep - until the 911 calls began to come in.
"There was a big explosion," Connors said. "I saw the window in the family room blow out. Glass covered my son. He started screaming."
Shrapnel barreled through his house, nearly injuring his 3-year-old son. "We felt . . . quite sure that a couple of pieces just missed him by inches," Connors said.
The blast also damaged Connors' shed and sent shrapnel through a fence and into a neighbor's car.
The Pleasant Grove man's first thought was that a propane tank stored in his shed had exploded. He called 911 dispatchers, who instructed him and his family to leave the house. Police and fire personnel determined an explosive had detonated and evacuated nearby homes. A bomb squad was called in.
By about 9 p.m., officials knew it was the errant shell and allowed Connors and his neighbors back into their homes.
While Braceras did not have an estimate of the damage to the homes, he said UDOT will cover the full cost of the homeowners' repairs. A safety risk manager was at the site Wednesday assessing the situation.
"They [UDOT] have told us they're responsible," Connors said.
"I don't need to tell them. They said they're investigating the incident. So, you know, I'm not angry with them or anything else. I believe it was purely an accident."
That said, he added, "We're just glad it wasn't any worse than it was."
On Wednesday, winds gusted between 40 and 50 mph, whipping up snow and blurring visibility. The cannon's operators didn't see where the shell landed, which, according to Braceras, is typical.
In 2001, UDOT began using artillery shells as its primary method of avalanche control since bad weather often prevents helicopters from flying in and dropping 2-pound hand charges.
"What the military weapon allows us to do is provide the greatest level of safety to the motorists," Braceras said.
UDOT reviewed the details of Wednesday night's accident before firing shells in Little Cottonwood Canyon on Thursday morning.
"To say we didn't have the highest awareness of safety beforehand would be false," Braceras said. "But we're actively discussing what happened to make sure that didn't happen [Thursday] morning."
lrosetta@sltrib.com

Warren
March 25, 2005, 02:04 PM
If that was my back yard, I'd be cleaning my drawers out right after the shell hit.

Do you mean because you will be moving or because you just had a movement?

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2005, 02:18 PM
Quote:
---------------------------------
Do you mean because you will be moving or because you just had a movement?
---------------------------------

Back in '68, I saw a strange thing - I was in the 1st Bde, 5th ID, OPCON to 3rd MarDiv. We were at Quang Tri, camped in a rice paddy without any comforts as the reserve Marine regiment (27th as I recall) that we replaced moved out. Then we moved the HQ up to Dong Ha, 3rd MarDiv HQ. As a recent arrival, I was on the Tactical Operations Center (TOC) night shift, awaiting a company to come open.

The day shift did the move, and I came up that afternoon. It was heaven! There were Sea-huts, bunks with blankets and hot showers! I was in the shower room, and several Marines came in. Then we heard it -- SHUUUUUUBANG! A 130mm gun-howitzer shell hit in the SeaBee area about 400 yards away.

Suddenly the shower room was empty. I looked at the door and saw what I thought were 40 bald-headed men trying to force their way in. Then I realized it was 20 bare-a**ed Marines trying to force their way OUT. :eek:

charby
March 25, 2005, 02:22 PM
movement... ha ha ha.. I guess I didn't think about the dresser.

Smurfslayer
March 25, 2005, 02:54 PM
"We took full responsibility for this incident and we're extremely grateful no one was hurt," said Carlos Braceras, deputy director of UDOT. "

[SS] Excellent. Finally some personal responsibility in government. So, who's being criminally charged?

Well?

Sorry but "full responsibility" means somebody has to go to prison for this. This isn't an errant .22 round ladies and gents the crew present for the firing should've IMMEDIATELY been taken into custody.

scout26
March 25, 2005, 02:55 PM
Many years ago when I was stationed in Baumholder (then the home of 8ID's Divarty) we had three former Artillery Battery commanders who were co-OIC's of the golf course......

FO: "Did not observe, Repeat."
Range Control: "NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!"
(the rounds, fortunately, were landing in a farmers field wwwaaaaayyyy outside the impact area) :banghead:

Frantic Rifle Range OIC: "Range Control !! Range Control !!! This is range 6, I have Rounds impacting on my range, CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE". (Range 6 is only 100 yards long) :eek:

My favorite though was when C 2/29 FA calculated their weather data at 0430 when it was cold and raining, but didn't shoot until around 1300 when it was nice and warm. Fortunately they were NOT shooting over post. :uhoh:

Nothing I enjoyed more then being out on the MTA, and hearing that Loooonnnngggg Ring on the field phone, while my SO was yelling "CEASE FIRE FREEZE, CEASE FIRE FREEZE". :cuss: (Hint: 30.80, new squelch ON).

While in the reserves, I was at Ft. McCoy, when a NG FA unit decided that they didn't like their accommodations and shelled the cantonment area, when they were shooting from one of the training areas south of main post, to the main impact area north of the post. Turned an old WWII barracks building into toothpicks. :what:

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2005, 03:16 PM
From the Grunt's Dictionary -- "Artillery. A device for making sure our Infantry doesn't have too much of an advantage over their infantry."

dasmi
March 25, 2005, 03:19 PM
Normally I don't got for lawsuits, but these people need to file one. They could've all been killed.

ScorpioVI
March 25, 2005, 04:17 PM
Can you imagine the conversation between the FDC and FO?


FDC: "Shot, over!"

FO: "Shot, out!"

FDC: "Splash, over!"

FO: "What ????ing splash? Over!"


:evil:

Gifted
March 25, 2005, 04:52 PM
I thought I heard them say on the news the house was over 7 miles away from where the round was fired! One of the artie guys on here can verify, but the 105mm has a 10-12 mile range. Seven miles isn't a big leap for modern guns.

ScorpioVI
March 25, 2005, 04:56 PM
Some good arty stories here. I'll share a one of mine, mortars though, not artillery.

I went to Panama back in 97 with HHC 1/32INF (10th Mountain). We were doing live fire off one of the ranges, practicing direct lays with our 81mms on this one little hill. At the end of the day we had a little gunner competition, see who can put a round on target in the least amount of rounds, and one of the guns ended up having a hangfire. As per procedure, everybody but the gunner moves back 100 meters from the firing line. Unfortunately the gunner was a really young, brand-new PV2 a couple of months out from basic. Also as per procedure, he kicks the mortar tube to try and dislodge the round. Unfortunately for him, his first kick was a really timid tap. Upon seeing this, the rest of the platoon yelled at him to "KICK IT HARDER!". So the gunner takes heed, kicks it harder, but it still didn't satisfy the rest of the platoon, so they yell out some more, "KICK IT HARDER!!!"

While all this was going on, I was sitting in the driver's seat of the FDC HMMWV monitoring the radios. Our Lieutenant was sitting in the passenger seat reading a book. Our HMMWV was situated to the rear of the firing line. Anyways, all the yelling caught my attention so I turned to look and see what was going on, and so did the LT.

Right about the time we turned our heads, our young gunner kicks the tube a third and final time, really effing hard! We saw the gun lift off the bipod, point vertically at the sky, and start coming down BACKWARDS. My LT and I got a good view of the muzzle pointing at us with a live HE round inside! I was glued to my seat, but my LT had better self-preservation instincts. He vaults the radio console, crawls over me, and does a superman dive out the driver's side of the HMMWV, and starts running for his life. I follow him a split second later but only got a few feet from the HMMWV. I had a habit of clipping my handmike to the strap of my helmet, and the handmike was still connected to the PRC-119 radio. So just as I got to full sprint my head gets yanked back by the handmike and I find myself horizontal in the air, parallel to the ground. After gravity did it's thing, I was in no shape to run so I crawled to the rear wheels of the HMMWV for cover.

Thankfully, the round never did go off. But as I looked around me I saw 25 11Cs hugging the ground as if the earth had flipped around and we were going to fall off into the sky if we didn't grab on for dear lives.

hjrocket
March 25, 2005, 05:56 PM
The 105 How used by DOT is a WW II/Korean War Model, in combat mode, it fires a 36# HE projectile about 15K yards at charge 7. The avalanche control rounds are appreciably lighter (about 27# IIRC) and are concussion rounds rather than fragmentary so there was a lot less danger to persons and materiel from that round. In Utah we have had several instances of overshooting while doing slope control. The funniest was when Solitude ski resort shelled Brighton ski resort a few years back--(brighton did not shoot back).
BTW:It is snowing now and those canyons have gotten over 600" of snow since Nov and have over 175" settled snow on the slopes at 8500" at this time !!

scout26
March 25, 2005, 06:24 PM
Ahhhh Mortar stories.

I always enjoyed watching the 11upchucks banging on the 4 deuce mortar tubes with shovels in the back of a M113 mortar carrier. Such lovely tones, almost like listening to church bells..... NOT :banghead: :banghead:

Preacherman
March 25, 2005, 07:18 PM
So, after all that, did they manage to start an avalanche? Inquiring minds want to know! :D

mbs357
March 25, 2005, 07:26 PM
This article has a LOT of errors...
And yea, it's scary. =X

ceetee
March 25, 2005, 09:56 PM
Like my wife would say:

They are soooooooooooo sued!

Kamicosmos
March 25, 2005, 10:53 PM
Wow, and here I was thinking how refreshing it was to read that the first words out of their mouths weren't 'I'm going to sue!'! But, there's enough people out there that will sue on thier behalf. sigh, America is still America after all.... :rolleyes:

Accidents happen, and I'm still trying to figure out how one goes about missing a mountain.

Warren
March 26, 2005, 01:52 AM
Accidents happen, and I'm still trying to figure out how one goes about missing a mountain.


Something like this:

GM: All right you're gonna need to roll for this.

Player: What?!?!?! It's a mountain! I can't miss!

GM: On page 33 of the rulebook it says every time you want to hit something you must roll. But you get some good modifiers...

Player: Like what kind of mods?

GM: +7 for target size, + 3 'cause it is not moving, and + 3 'cause you're not moving. Plus all your other bonuses to hit.

Player: Wow! That's + 13 plus my + 5! I can't miss!

GM: Just don't roll a 1...

Player: Ha! No chance of that! Where's my twenty-sider...

rolls

Player: Damn.

critter
March 26, 2005, 12:56 PM
Sounds like a real "Hay bubba. Hold my beer and watch this!" moment!

Kamicosmos
March 26, 2005, 05:57 PM
Here2Learn:

LoL! I just played in a D&D match a couple nights ago, that was great! That sounds almost exactly like something that happened to my rogue. Spent a couple rounds sneaking up behind a guard, had him flatfooted and everything, no way I could miss my backstab.

Except for that 3 I rolled. The unanimous cries of 'WHIFF MASTER!' around the table was quite humiliating!

griz
March 27, 2005, 09:11 AM
"To say we didn't have the highest awareness of safety beforehand would be false," Braceras said. "But we're actively discussing what happened to make sure that didn't happen [Thursday] morning."

You know this is the same as hiring a guy to drive a truck and having him drive through a crowded playground, oblivious of the fact that he is endangering kids. You don't "actively discuss it", you fire him.

As I wrote this another possibilty occured to me. It may not be the fault of the guy who fired the round. It is possible that UDOT assumed that you can't miss a moutain, after all they're so darn big. Accordingly they gave the new guy (nobody else wanted to go out in that weather) a couple shells and told him to fire them. So if he did exactly as told, then fire the guy responsible, who is further up the chain of command.

Tory
March 27, 2005, 09:56 AM
"Bore sighting." ;)

After all, it IS a mountain. :rolleyes:

If you enjoyed reading about "Damn! Missed the mountain!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!