My solution to the scout rifle...


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ECVMatt
March 25, 2005, 07:23 PM
I have always wanted a scout type rifle. However, there were some shortcomings that I need to address to make it work for me. First off is the scope. I set up a marlin 336 in the scout config to try it out and had problems using the scope at dusk and dawn. This frustrated me because I wanted to use it for hunting. Next I played with some of my buddies scout rifles of various makes and could not get the kind of accuracy I like from rifles. So after thinking about what I really wanted in a self-defense/ hunting rifle I bought a Remington LTR in .308. I mounted a Leupold VX III 4.5 to 14 by 40mm. While it is not lighting fast at extremely close distances, it has all of the accuracy I need out to 400 yards or so. While it is now where near the definition of a scout rifles it fits the realities of my situation much better and seems much more useful in a broader selection of situations. Did I mess up? Should I have continued to try and make the scout concept work for me or did I see through the scout mystic to find a better all around rifle? I thought I would see what you guys think as most folks hear are much more knowledgeable than I on the subject.

Thanks,

Matt

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nico
March 25, 2005, 08:18 PM
Sounds like you found a better rifle for you. If one rifle could suit everyone, companies wouldn't make different models. I don't think anyone would argue that any 700 with a VX-III is a bad choice for a hunting rifle.

Zak Smith
March 25, 2005, 08:38 PM
Here's my solution:

http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/6.8SPC/small/137_3797_img.jpg (http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/6.8SPC/?medium=137_3797_img.jpg) [ link to LARGER image ] (http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/6.8SPC/?medium=137_3797_img.jpg)

It's a totally different take. It ditches the bolt action suggestion. It has superior magazine capability and reload times to the conventional idea. The optics are superior to the forward mounted scout optics. It can put more rounds on targets faster than any conventional scout. It can be trimmed to the scout "weight limit" (7.7lbs). Before you bolt on caliber, this rifle delivers 110gr controlled expansion bullets at 2650fps at under 1 MOA.

-z

SamlautRanger
March 25, 2005, 09:44 PM
Got any photos of your rifle???

ECVMatt
March 25, 2005, 10:07 PM
That is an awesome rifle! What caliber is it?? AR can be just as accurate as a bolt gun, and with all of the new calibers, just as versatile.

I have some photo's, but I do not know how to link them. I am much better at shooting than this computer thing.

Zak Smith
March 25, 2005, 10:10 PM
6.8SPC
barrel length is 18"
groups are consistently under 1 MOA

SpookyPistolero
March 25, 2005, 11:07 PM
I can honestly say, Zak, that I've never gotten excited about seeing an AR before that. Very impressive. My prayers are with the 6.8!

Sunray
March 26, 2005, 01:35 AM
"...Did I mess up?..." Nope. Aside from what you learned from your experiments, like Nico says, you now have a rifle that you feel confident using. The one thing about variable scopes is that most guys put them on one setting and leave it there. A 2.5X to 8X is a better hunting scope. You don't need 14X for hunting.
Since you have the 336 anyway, why not play around with it? Change scopes though. Sounds like the one you have isn't a long eye relief scope. Maybe a red dot sight would work better on it.

homeka45
March 26, 2005, 02:42 AM
Nice solution Zak. 6.8 sound more and more like the solution to my problem. I just hope they don't start offering them in pistol configuration ARs.

Zak Smith
March 26, 2005, 02:43 AM
I know you can already get T/C barrels in 6.8.
AR15 pistols suck, however.

homeka45
March 26, 2005, 03:48 AM
Truer words were never spoken.

JohnKSa
March 26, 2005, 10:33 PM
Zak,

Why the 6.8 instead of the 6.5Grendel?

Zak Smith
March 27, 2005, 01:33 AM
For the purpose of this thread (and not to hijack it), let's say they are substantially simliar in the capabilities they bring to the AR15 platform, though they differ in some details.

beerslurpy
March 27, 2005, 02:57 AM
How about people who dont have 2-3 grand lying around to reinvent the AK47 or who cant make their own ammunition?

Or was cost and availability not an issue for the scout rifle concept? I forget everything jeff wrote about it.

Zak Smith
March 27, 2005, 08:47 AM
Well, the Steyr Scout MSRPs over $2k without optics...

griz
March 27, 2005, 10:20 AM
Other than the low light problem, did you have any other issues with the scout scope? From just picking one up at a show they seem to offer a nice quick way to sight, but I don't want to sacrifice much for a tiny bit of speed. Did you like the scout setup better than a low power conventonal mount as far as ease of getting on target?

nico
March 27, 2005, 02:41 PM
Or was cost and availability not an issue for the scout rifle concept? I forget everything jeff wrote about it
from what I've read/heard, I don't remember cost being part of the equation.

beerslurpy
March 27, 2005, 05:02 PM
I guess this goes doubly for the pointless Steyr Scout, whose price I always found to be obscene. At least your gun has decent ammo capacity and is semi-auto.

I guess the concept of the "scout rifle" offends me. Its basically an everyman's utility, defense and hunting rifle, priced so that almost no one can afford it. Why not just hire a platoon of mercenary soldiers to protect you, hunt for you and scout out the area since cost is no option? They can even strike decisive blows against 200 kilo targets if you ask them too.

The only modern lightweight rifle I can think of being excluded from this would be the M16, since it is capable of hitting people a lot farther away than it is capable of striking "decisive blows against 200kg targets." So yeah, the M16 in 6.8 answers the question, but at what cost? At some point you have to live in the real world and design rifles that normal people can afford to own and shoot.

What about the S&W 460 magnum revolver? That shoots flat out to 200+ yards, develops slightly less muzzle velocity than a 308 and has more bullet weight than a 44 mag. It is also lightweight, handy at both close and long ranges and probably does various other useful things I havent thought of. It recoils like an unthrown hand grenade, but wusses shouldnt be striking decisive blows from 300 yards anyway lol diaper.

Dave R
March 27, 2005, 06:21 PM
How about people who dont have 2-3 grand lying around to reinvent the AK47 or who cant make their own ammunition?

There is some company that is converting Enfields to scout configuration, in .303 British or .308.

There's also Remington's new scout rifle. It misses being a 'true' scout by omission of iron (backup) sights and ability to use stipper clips.

And you can buy a Savage Scout used, or special order a new one. Don't know price, but it can't be anywhere near 2 grand.

Chris Rhines
March 27, 2005, 06:47 PM
I guess the concept of the "scout rifle" offends me. Its basically an everyman's utility, defense and hunting rifle,... The scout rifle is not an everyman's anything. Price was never a consideration during the devlopment of the scout rifle concept, and Col. Cooper has always struck me as an advocate of spending whatever is required for the best equipment.

I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but I had no trouble saving up for a while and buying a $1500 rifle topped with a $1000 scope. Priorities, I guess...

- Chris

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