The Lynyrd Skynyrd song... is it anti-gun?


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peacefuljeffrey
March 26, 2005, 07:58 AM
The song "Mr. Saturday Night Special"...
it has lyrics like, "Mr. Saturday Night Special, got a barrel that's blue and gold; ain't good for nuthin', but put a man six feet in a hole..."

and there's something about "Handguns are made for killin'; they ain't no good for nuthin' else."

Additionally, apart from all the unintelligible stuff about some dudes in a bar fight (or something) :uhoh: there is something about dumping all of the guns in the sea before some dude shoots you or me...

Anyone know anything more in-depth about Skynyrd's position on guns?

It seems to me that this is like an anthem for b.s. diatribes against handguns. Makes it seem like they hold the position of HCI that there's never possibly been, say, a GOOD use of a handgun, maybe to save a life or something. They're all negative and evil, those horrible handguns... :rolleyes:

I'd like to not have to believe that Skynyrd (an entertaining band, otherwise) actually meant that song in earnest as anti-gun.

Do you know anything about it? Have they done interviews and explained the song's meaning to them?

-Jeffrey

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guy sajer
March 26, 2005, 08:02 AM
I always took it as an anti-gun message myself .

As they are from the South , I thought it strange as I always equated Southerners with hunting and such . Gun people . Like , Hank Jr .

Husker1911
March 26, 2005, 08:22 AM
Decidedly anti-gun. Were they trying to ingratiatiate themselves with the liberal elites? Don't really know. Their tune "Gimme three steps" finds the singer "stareing straight down a .44". "Pointing that gun at me."

peacefuljeffrey
March 26, 2005, 09:06 AM
That one song (the one I mentioned) has made me make a point of disliking them.

Like you said, I gave them credit for being "gun people" because they're southern. I guess we already knew that that's not a perfectly accurate measure. There are plenty of leftist losers infesting the South. I just didn't think that they'd be among the rank ranks.

I was just hoping that there might be reason to salvage any liking I may have had for Skynyrd. I guess there likely is not. I won't abide them writing such a damn ignorant song.

-Jeffrey

El Tejon
March 26, 2005, 09:15 AM
That song and Three Steps were written based on personal experiences of members of the band. They were known for a "rough" lifestyle.

LS band members often played with bandaged hands and black eyes.

Stand_Watie
March 26, 2005, 09:23 AM
Maybe Ronnie was just mad at his brother Donnie (of '.38 special') and "saturday night special" was a sibling dig?

Fed168
March 26, 2005, 09:36 AM
Gimmie back my bullets.

Barbara
March 26, 2005, 09:42 AM
Sarah Brady's hatred of guns also comes from personal experience.

jsalcedo
March 26, 2005, 10:32 AM
It is a cool sounding song but once I heard the lyrics that was it for me.

Sad to say but most Rock n Roll types are about as ignorant and leftist as
their Hollywood brethren with notable exceptions.

I'm a fan of classic rock and oldies but there are many songs out there
with socialist and liberal themes.

It's hard to enjoy good mustic while being bombarded wih crap lyrics.

armoredman
March 26, 2005, 10:36 AM
If having a bad Southern Fried Rock moment, listen to Charlie Daniels Band, can't remember the song, done during Clinton, where he sings, "gonna keep my guns and have my fun"...
LS has at least three anti-gun songs, and enough drug and alcohol problems, not to mention violent tendancies, that I kinda discount thier position on anything. Alice Cooper once asked why we listen to rock and rollers on anything, as they party all night and sleep all day, and anyone who takes political advice from bands in an idiot....

SHOOT1SAM
March 26, 2005, 11:34 AM
Yeah, as a Rock-N-Roll fan, it pains me that some great groups/singers are so leftist. Used to love John "Cougar" Mellencamp until the last election when he was bustin' his a$$ for John Kerry (Hey!! Did y'all know Kerry was in Vietnam??) and wrote a song about G.W. with these lyrics: "selected, not elected."

However, the GREATEST, Ted Nugent, will tell you that a lot of Rock-N-Rollers do like guns & shooting, for example, the guys in Aerosmith, generally known as a leftist-type group. They just won't go on record.

And as someone who doesn't like very much C&W music, it further pains me that so many of those artists are on the right side. I do like Charlie Daniels, Hank, Jr. and Toby Keith, as well as Barbara and Louise Mandrell and others for their political/gun points-of-view.

Sam

jefnvk
March 26, 2005, 11:48 AM
I try not to let a group's political opinions influence my listening to them. Very few groups I actually buy music from anyways. In fact, in the last two years, I have bought exactly three CD's.

Of my three favorites, two are British and the other is Canadian, so I honestly doubt that their politics match mine.

Felonious Monk
March 26, 2005, 11:53 AM
Please understand that these were guys in their early to mid-20's. They really weren't long on life experience, except for playing the honky tonk southern bar circuit right out of high school until MCA signed them and made them ridiculously rich.

All they really knew was their first-hand experience: they had a blast busting people up in bar fights, were apparently very good at it, but it always ended the fun once the Sat. Night Special came out and killed someone. (duh) :scrutiny:

I don't really care what their views were, but until the plane crash, they (along with Marshall Tucker and Charlie Daniels) pretty much defined the Southern Rock genre.

XLMiguel
March 26, 2005, 11:55 AM
I'm a big proponent of "Shut up and sing!"

The notion of a southern honky-tonk full of armed, drunk rednecks is not a pleasant thought and certainly anathema to what most of us here believe. But sometimes a song is just a song. :scrutiny:

Outbacker
March 26, 2005, 12:14 PM
Despite VanZant's reputation for hell raising and some persistently mistaken notions regarding his politics, "Saturday Night Special" took on a subject sacred to good ole boys from coast to coast - gun control. In the lyrics below there are a couple of verses about senseless killings, followed by the suggestion that all handguns be thrown into the sea.

Definitely an Anti's Anthem...

Saturday Night Special
(Lyrics by Ed King & Ronnie VanZant)

Two feets they come a creepin’
Like a black cat do
And two bodies are lyin’ naked
Creeper think he got nothin’ to lose
So he creeps into this house, yeah
And unlocks the door
And while a man reaching for his trousers
Shoots him full of .38 holes

(chorus)
Its a Saturday Night Special
Got a barrel that’s blue and cold
Ain’t no good for nothin’
But put a man six feet in a hole

Big Jim’s been drinkin’ whiskey
And playing poker on a losin’ night
Pretty soon, big Jim starts a thinkin’
Somebody been cheatin’ and lyin’
So big Jim commences to fightin’
I wouldn’t tell you no lie
And big Jim done grab his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes

(chorus)

Handguns are made for killin’
Ain’t no good for nothin’ else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don’t we dump ’em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

PMDW
March 26, 2005, 12:47 PM
However, the GREATEST, Ted Nugent, will tell you that a lot of Rock-N-Rollers do like guns & shooting, for example, the guys in Aerosmith, generally known as a leftist-type group. They just won't go on record.

Steve Tyler has a custom built Chandler rifle in .308.

Further proof.

DMF
March 26, 2005, 12:55 PM
. . . a barrel that's blue and gold. . . Its blue and COLD. Cold not gold. :neener:

444
March 26, 2005, 01:27 PM
For some reason I was just thinking about a time when I was about 18-19 years old and a buddy of mine was telling me about a book he read about Jim Morrison. I remember him making Morrison out to be some kind of genius or something.

Now, as a middle aged person I realize how ridiculous it was. Here was a guy that was young, with very little life experience. He was stoned most of the time. His whole life was totally out of the mainstream. And my buddy was listening to what he said. :uhoh:
This of course is in addition to the fact that because someone is an actor or musician doesn't mean they know anything about anything else.

280PLUS
March 26, 2005, 01:55 PM
Not all guns.

Is a Saturday Night Special really much good for anything else but putting people 6 feet in a hole?

For those of you who never had a chance to see Ronnie strut his stuff on stage, too darn bad. Nobody had stage presence the way that guy did.

It still reigns as one of the best concerts I ever saw. Two months later, he was dead.

"Back at the hotel, Lord, we got such a mess.
It seems that one of the crew had a go with one of the guests, oh yes.
Now the police say we can't drink in the bar, what a shame.
Come upstairs girl and have a drink of champagne."

:evil:

P.S. Jim Morrison was an outstanding poet not a songwriter. Noone really understands that. They took his poetry and put it to music.

Outbacker
March 26, 2005, 02:00 PM
280,

Read the last verse again.

Handguns are made for killin’...

Your point doesn't hold water at all. It's clear Ronnie is talking about handguns here.

Phyphor
March 26, 2005, 02:54 PM
...it does say that Van Zant was somewhat anti, but due to the fact that he'd been shot.

Ironic, given the song 'gimme back my bullets' got the band pelted with .38s at many of their concerts.. :evil:

280PLUS
March 26, 2005, 03:07 PM
But the title of the song is "Saturday Night Special" which is how I take his meaning. Though I will agree he does lump them in as handguns at the end.

"Handguns are made for killing, they ain't no good for nothing else."

Was the concept of the handgun's invention developed for anything but killing? I'm talking about the first handgun, was it intended for shootin' bottles and cans?

That's how I define that line. Granted you or I can find lots of nonlethal ways to have fun with our firearms but the true or underlying intent of them is to kill and in some cases it's homo sapiens who are the killees. Yes I know there are plenty who hunt with handguns, I want to try it myself. But I'd be willing to bet there are more people killed by handguns than furry forest creatures on average.

Anyhoooo, without getting into a long deal over a tune. Is it anti gun? Yes. Do I disagree with it 100%? No. Do I disagree with it at all? Maybe with the second part of the "handguns" line. Have I dumped my guns "to the bottom of the sea" over it? No. Do I hate Skynnyrd for recording the song? No, they have a right to their opinion too. I just wish I had the chance to take em all out to the range and make them see the light...

They'd have to be sober though so they probably wouldn't have gone.

:rolleyes:

Justin
March 26, 2005, 03:08 PM
Not all guns.

Is a Saturday Night Special really much good for anything else but putting people 6 feet in a hole?

Many people own so-called "Saturday Night Specials" because they cannot afford a pricier defensive arm. Also realize that the term is derived from a racial slur.

Personally, I don't like Skynyrd because of that godawful "smell that smell" song.

Worst..."song"...EVER!

Derby FALs
March 26, 2005, 03:38 PM
Its a Saturday Night Special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't no good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Bah...

I use the muzzle of my Saturday Night Special as a vase for a perfect, boneless rose specimen.

Onmilo
March 26, 2005, 05:48 PM
Lynyrd skynyrd weren't big fans of guns.
Too many people in the real world wanted to use them to end their professional career.
A drunken, stoned pilot did the job instead.

LynnMassGuy
March 26, 2005, 06:18 PM
I love em anyway.

Regards
John

Phyphor
March 26, 2005, 06:42 PM
Personally, I don't like Skynyrd because of that godawful "smell that smell" song.

Isn't that song about heroin/morphine addiction?

a454me
March 26, 2005, 06:53 PM
All those songs were written long before pro/anti gun thing was a big issue , I think LS did some good tunes that still sound good today .

Sisco
March 26, 2005, 08:22 PM
I'm a big Skynyrd fan but I hate that song. Saw them in concert a couple of years ago, went out for another beer and a smoke when they played it. Nugent played the same concert. He's great but don't take your kids, hard "R" rated for language.

BTW: "Gimme Back My Bullets" isn't about guns. The "bullet" they refer to is a symbol on the Billboard chart; If a band's song is down on the chart with a "bullet" it means it is rising in popularity, if the bullet is taken away it means the song has stalled, possibly dropping on the chart.

Greybeard
March 26, 2005, 10:17 PM
Quote: "I'm a big Skynyrd fan but I hate that song. Saw them in concert a couple of years ago, went out for another beer and a smoke when they played it."

:confused: Some un-dead leftovers touring these days? :confused:

Quote: "Nugent played the same concert. He's great but don't take your kids, hard "R" rated for language."

Yea, I'm glad Ted's on our side with the RKBA, but often think he would do us all a favor by cleaning up his mouth.

Regarding the bands of the 70's, I was in the right (or wrong) place to party with some of them in the college days, including Dr. Hook and The Medecine Show - right after they made "The Cover of The Rolling Stone".

Alice Cooper, BTW, whs pretty much a "normal" dude in real life. He was the first to admit, that first and foremost, he was a "businessman" and that if someone bought a ticket to one of his concerts, they would "see a performance they would not forget for the rest of their life". And the man did not lie. ;)

I've still got the orginal LP of the early 70's Skynyrd album - the one WITH fire on the cover. But, the handguns lyrics obviously did not influence me too much ... Then maybe they did. It was about that time I got my first .22 revolver and not long afterward, the Chief's Special.

Outbacker
March 26, 2005, 11:10 PM
Regarding the bands of the 70's, I was in the right (or wrong) place to party with some of them in the college days, including Dr. Hook and The Medecine Show - right after they made "The Cover of The Rolling Stone".
Thanks! I was feeling kind of old (college in the mid-80's) this week before I read that. ;)

Sisco
March 26, 2005, 11:14 PM
I've still got the orginal LP of the early 70's Skynyrd album - the one WITH fire on the cover.
You might want to hang on to that. "Street Survivors" was the last album they made before the plane crash, the flames were removed from any covers made after that.

Saw Alice Cooper back in the late 70's, one hell of a show. Probably one of the best concerts I've seen.

PMDW
March 26, 2005, 11:48 PM
Some un-dead leftovers touring these days?

The band is still together, minus the one member that was killed in the crash.

SIOP
March 27, 2005, 12:14 AM
The band is still together, minus the one member that was killed in the crash.

Two were killed in the crash plus one of the backup singers, one was crippled in a car crash and died many years later, and one just died a few years ago.

PMDW
March 27, 2005, 12:24 AM
Eh, I didn't follow them that closely.

In fact, I stopped listening to them because of this stupid song.

misANTHrope
March 27, 2005, 01:28 AM
[flame suit on]

This sort of reminds me of an old sore spot of mine. I grew up in a rather conservative Baptist family, where the only music I was supposed to listen to was "Christian" music. Now, on another note (no pun intended), music is one of my true passions. I listen to music basically all of the time- at home, in the car, etc., etc. I find it to be a most glorious art form. When I started to get into my formative years (aka teenage) and heard some of the "bad" bands, I realized that I was being closed off to some really talented bands/people, for what I thought was kind of a stupid reason. Now, truly vulgar stuff I could understand, but just because every song a band wrote wasn't about God, I wasn't supposed to listen to it? I didn't get it, and still don't. Then there was the whole issue of trying to classify "Christian" music. Where was the line? Music and poetry go together, and poetry is pretty obscure sometimes. What if it was only a veiled reference to God? What if there was no real reference, but the band members were Christians? I eventually came to the conclusion that it was an essentially pointless categorization to draw, just for the purposes of deciding if something was appropriate to listen to. I decided that ignoring the artistic merit of some band just because they tossed a four-letter word in a song once was extreme, as least for me.

I type all this because I see a parallel here. A band makes lots of great (IMO) music, but because they are anti-gun or whatnot, and write a song about their views, all their work is null and void? The whole reason songs are written is personal feelings and experience. So their experiences led them to different conclusions than me... well, I still like the music, and their political views aren't enough to make me not like their music. Put another way, I dislike certain music forms because they do nothing for me, not because of some rationally-arrived at conclusion. Music drives my heart, not my head.

Now, I do get annoyed with celebrities at times being vocal with their political views- but when I think about that rationally, I realize that if I were in their position, I'd try to educate people as well, and I'd probably be criticized for my "ignorant" views. I can't blame anyone else for doing the same, even if their particular spiel doesn't match my own.

So, my grand roundabout point is that I like Skynyrd. Hell, "Simple Man" is one of the greatest songs ever written IMO. I disagree with what I see as the main point of "Saturday Night Special." But I don't let that taint my enjoyment of the band's music.

And as a caveat here, I'm not trying to point any fingers or tell anyone they're wrong or ignorant or anything. I just felt the need to explain myself a bit- I know where people are coming from, but I don't necessarily understand how something like this can make them not like other songs. And I know full well that the reason I can't understand it is that we all have different ways of seeing the world.

mbs357
March 27, 2005, 01:33 AM
^^
Agreed, Simple Man and Tuesday's Gone (My favorite song -ever-) more than makes up for a bit of anti-gun in a single song.

Combat-wombat
March 27, 2005, 01:39 AM
I always took it as anti-gun. I mean, it's pretty obvious. I can't believe that the same band who writes a song named "Sweet Home Alabama" can put out a diatribe against handguns like that. I never liked their music much, either.

The Allman Brothers are where southern rock's at, anyway. I think the two bands should should start a gang rivalry war over it like all the rappers do- Lynyrd Skynrd would lose without the handguns. :neener:

280PLUS
March 27, 2005, 06:25 AM
The band touring since after the crash are just the leftover relics sucking off of whats left of the band's fame.

Ronnie's brother (I think it's actually Johnnie not Donnie) doesn't hold a candle to him. Ronnie put the life in that band.It annoys me every time I see them on "Crossroads" That ain't Skynnyrd. Sorry.

I can still remember the crowd going totally beserk as he strutted onstage during the intro to "MCA". That was their first tune on that last tour cause when they stepped onstage that was exactly what they were doing. "Workin' for the MCA."

"That Smell" was written about one of the members problems with drugs and alcohol.

"Whiskey bars,brand new cars, oar, oak tree you're in my way."

Said band member ran his brand new car into an oak tree. Sorry I don't remember which one. He is also dead now but not from the plane crash, I'm pretty sure his death was drug/alcohol related. Don't quote me on it though. .

peacefuljeffrey
March 27, 2005, 07:04 AM
Steve Tyler has a custom built Chandler rifle in .308.

Further proof.


Proof of what? That he wants to own guns? Yep. But it sure ain't necessarily proof to me that he supports RKBA.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Diane Feinstein has CA CCW privileges. :fire:


I'll believe that Tyler supports OUR RKBA when I hear him STATE SO.

-Jeffrey

71Commander
March 27, 2005, 08:12 AM
Personally, I don't like Skynyrd because of that godawful "smell that smell" song.

But "Free Bird" kicked booty. :p

Bear Gulch
March 27, 2005, 10:34 AM
First of all don't give them that much credit. I think that they wrote the music they did to make money.

Ted Nugent and Toby Keith have gone to see our troops, played for them in 120 degree heat and pepped them up. That earns a Semper Fi anyday!

PMDW
March 27, 2005, 11:10 AM
Proof of what? That he wants to own guns? Yep. But it sure ain't necessarily proof to me that he supports RKBA.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Diane Feinstein has CA CCW privileges.


I'll believe that Tyler supports OUR RKBA when I hear him STATE SO.

-Jeffrey

There's a difference between having a CCW because you're a senator, and having a custom built, $10,000 target rifle.

You have to really like guns to have such a rifle.

Now, if Feinstein had one, you'd havea valid point. But she doesn't. She has a CCW out of necessity. Honestly, I can't say I blame her. If I were in her position, I'd have one as well.

Bear Gulch
March 27, 2005, 11:58 AM
Actually Steve and Joe Perry have been on Ted's radio show where they did indeed support RKBA. They are both fond of full auto and fair shots as witnessed by the Nuge.

Greybeard
March 27, 2005, 12:07 PM
Sisco - Yep, "Street Survivors" was the name of the album with the flames. Thanks for the reminder of the name. Was too lazy to go look it up, but I did this morning. MCA Records, 1977.

The Wife and I have kept an old JVC turntable operational for all these years. Sometimes we pull out some of the old LPs and enjoy ... (sigh) ... without "that smell".

mbs357
March 27, 2005, 12:40 PM
There were three brothers, Ronnie, Johnny and Donnie.
Ronnie was in the original Lynyrd Skynyrd, and was replaced by Johnny when he died.
Donnie just went on by himself and formed .38 Special.
Johnny can't sing his brother's songs very well, but with his own songs, he jams.

Wayne D
March 27, 2005, 02:39 PM
To people who like to bar fight, carrying a gun is not playing fair. I grew up in the south during the same time period and I knew people with that point of view. They considered drinking and fighting a sport. Note I said "a" sport, you couldn't have one without the other. When they went out drinking they expected to be in a fight before the night was over. People pulling weapons such as knives or guns were cheating. Swearing out warrants afterwards was not something a real man would do either. This was a different time period with different rules. This was before freeway shootings, drive-by shooting, car jacking, and all the other "crack" related violence. Back when muggers just stole your money. Real men would settle differences of marital infidelity and drunken gambling debts with fists and not guns. Like I said, different time with different rules. I don't like the song either but I understand (or at least remember) that southern beer joint mentality.

thatguy
March 27, 2005, 04:29 PM
I'm surprised that anyone would even have to ask if that song is anti-gun. The lyrics don't need much interpretation IMHO. I hated Freebird because every whacked-out chick in the 1970s adopted it as a personal anthem.

Steven Tyler and his lead guitarist from Aerosmith (name eludes me right now) have gone hunting with Nugent. Don't know hoe pro-gun they may be but apparently they do some deer hunting with rifles. Wonder how their admitted past drug use affects gun ownership rights? If they bought guns and filled out 4473s they should say "yes" to the drug use question, no?

Zundfolge
March 27, 2005, 04:54 PM
People tend to forget that gun control wasn't invented by New York and California liberals, it was invented by "conservative white southern gentlemen".

SIOP
March 27, 2005, 04:57 PM
Wonder how their admitted past drug use affects gun ownership rights? If they bought guns and filled out 4473s they should say "yes" to the drug use question, no?

The question is "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to......" Doesn't ask about past use.

Boss Spearman
March 27, 2005, 05:12 PM
Some of the folks in the old west managed to have saloon brawls without pulling weapons.

Phyphor
March 27, 2005, 05:25 PM
The Ballad of Curtis Loew - A song about a black blues player,
Four Walls of Raiford - Not too widely known, but it does point to some of the issues vietnam vets had upon returning home...

And one of Johnny Van Zant's best songs, IMO is Brickyard Road... On the Hunt isn't bad either.

Itote
March 27, 2005, 06:34 PM
I read the history of LS a few years ago in a box set that my buddy bought. It specifically stated that LS was anti gun. Ronnie Van Zant, Stevie Gaines, and Cassie Gaines(Stevie's sister)was the band members killed in the crash. Don Kilpatrick, their manager, was also killed. Gimme back my bullets was about the billboard position as posted earlier. Still, they are my favorite band.
By the way, the new members do a great job. Still got them awesome guitarists!

Magnuumpwr
March 28, 2005, 12:03 AM
Considering the time that the song was wrote, I hold no ill feelings toward the Skynyrd band. Now if a new band comes out with a song dealing with gun control as a main theme, you can bet the farm I'll avoid it like the plague.
Quote:
"So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me"
I feel the same way, when wrote if you carried a gun when you went out drinking, it only had one use!! In fact, the shorter barrel was to make it easier to put in a pocket and conceal. Now it is considered an ideal CCW. :D Times change and if you understand this, you'll have a better understanding of the past. And just for the record, I'm not saying all changes are for the good, but they will happen. It's up to us all as a whole to control the changes. ;)

freebird
August 10, 2007, 01:19 PM
Thanks Magnuumpwr you provided the best response yet! Look at the times, they are talking about more stupid people than anything else! People back in the 70's would carry guns to bars for one thing and it was not for self defense because they were an inoccent bystander and got assulted. They would carry because when they started crap they could not finish they would shoot someone. Big difference! Plus the song says why don't we dump em people to the bottom of the sea. I always thought this was people not the guns. Skynyrd is and always will be the boys that taught me to be a Simple Man! If Charlie Daniels is best friends with them what more can you say?



Join Date: 02-28-05
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 114 Considering the time that the song was wrote, I hold no ill feelings toward the Skynyrd band. Now if a new band comes out with a song dealing with gun control as a main theme, you can bet the farm I'll avoid it like the plague.
Quote:
"So why don’t we dump ’em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me"
I feel the same way, when wrote if you carried a gun when you went out drinking, it only had one use!! In fact, the shorter barrel was to make it easier to put in a pocket and conceal. Now it is considered an ideal CCW. Times change and if you understand this, you'll have a better understanding of the past. And just for the record, I'm not saying all changes are for the good, but they will happen. It's up to us all as a whole to control the changes.
__________________
Left handed people are the only ones in their right mind!!

Magnuumpwr

Noxx
August 10, 2007, 01:26 PM
Fortunately for me, the vast majority of musicians I enjoy listening to are long dead, so their politics are of no concern to me.

For those who are still kicking around, their sentiment has to reach an appalling point of abrasiveness before it influences my opinion of their music.

That being said, this thread has reminded me that it's friday night for Mr Third Shift, so a few beers and some Tom Waits are in order.

Stauble
August 10, 2007, 01:43 PM
There are plenty of leftist losers infesting the South

yes but most of them came from somewhere else..like my favorite state New York:barf:

If having a bad Southern Fried Rock moment, listen to Charlie Daniels Band, can't remember the song, done during Clinton, where he sings, "gonna keep my guns and have my fun"...

that song is called Same ol me and it oe of my personal favorites

Correia
August 10, 2007, 01:57 PM
Look at the times,

Indeed, you're responding to a 2 year old thread.


FREE BIRD! WOO! WOO! (waves lighter in the air) FREE BIRD!

TEDDY
August 10, 2007, 02:19 PM
it sure was a diferent time.I lived in a city in Mass that had a rifle range in the high school.club sponsered by the school.a shooting in the city would have been a BIG suprize.it was the 70s that brought the most violence.why??
was it the start of the pc crowd and the break down of families??.

ArfinGreebly
August 10, 2007, 02:23 PM
Sarah Brady's hatred of guns also comes from personal experience.
It's not the guns she hates.

Remember, she has her own guns. Whoever manages her security has guns.

It's not the guns.

It's YOU she hates. You refuse to do as you're told. You don't know your place. You're all uppity. You are a danger to the legitimate masters. You must be stopped, so your betters can have the control they need.

The campaign isn't against guns.

It's against freedom and liberty among the Proletariat, you scum. We know what's best for you. Now just shut up and get back to work.

Man. The NERVE of these commoners!

Whatever next?!

Kim
August 10, 2007, 02:41 PM
I wish people would look at ART as ART. What it means is in the eye of the person who sees or hears it. I get tired of all the over the top analysis of ART and people telling me what it means. This is done way too much with everthing from literature to music. I personally think "Gimme back my bullets" is a song about sex. I do not see the other songs as anti-gun as much as anti-criminal acivity with a gun. It is nothing but readneck music. Sure they wish the other bad guys did not have the guns to use on them but is that a new idea? Not. I have heard lefties even say the Wizard of Oz is a story supporting socialism or at least anti-capitalist. Please some people need to take off their blinders and let ART be what YOU see it meaning. I do not like "Group think on ART" or Shakespeare for that matter. Sometimes a blue dot is just a blue dot and sometimes it can be indicitive of the plant called earth. Just depends folks.;)

MinnMooney
August 10, 2007, 02:43 PM
I'm usually not a listener to lyrics. One reason is that I have a hard time deciphering the words and another reason is.... I really couldn't care less what some singer/lyricist is trying to persude my mind to think. I just like the music.
What gets me, though, is that many people really do listen and sing along - even if they're singing about killin' cops, banning guns, banning war or whatever.
Case in point - I was at "Taste of Minnesota" last month with my son and his fiance listening to some semi-famous local band on the main stage. They started into a song about how bad our country is for getting into and staying in the Iraq/taliban/BinLaden war. They wanted everyone to do the all-too-often-done sing/chant along with the band routine. The chant had to do with stopping the war and getting out of Iraq. The entire audience started chanting along with the band and I asked my son & his fiance (rather loudly, I might add) if all of the sheep in the audience knew what they were chanting and what exactly was the band's plan on how to help the abandoned Iraqi people after we pull out. Funny thing.... several strangers around me (instead of kicking my a__) looked at me and said, "I never thought about it before. I was just singing along." Sheep.

Carl N. Brown
August 10, 2007, 04:12 PM
Sarah Brady's hatred of guns also comes from personal experience.
I have tried to talk racial tolerance to a white kid who was
terrorised by black drug dealer gangsters in high school.
Hatred for all from personal bad experiences with some is
just wrong and irrational.

Dravur
August 10, 2007, 04:20 PM
I hope Mr Van Zandt will remember, Gun owning man don't need him 'round anyhow.

Merc41
August 10, 2007, 04:50 PM
If you listen to most of their songs, they didn't like drinkin, guns, or drugs. However, I am sure they did partake in them all. I have 3 of their cd's, and when "Saturday Night Special" comes up, I skip it.

rocinante
August 10, 2007, 06:34 PM
Didn't read the whole thread but 'gimme back my bullets' is not about gun bullets. It is about the position on the weekly hits chart. He wants to have hit songs.

Personally I think saturday night special is an anti song for sure but a damn good one. I wouldn't call give me 3 steps an anti song because the reference to the gun is humorous and entirely believable. Funny song one of my all time favorites.

Lynnrd Skynnrd had some great intelligent and cool songs some of them did have social messages. can't you smell that smell is one of the best anti drug songs ever.

Gunnerpalace
August 10, 2007, 06:58 PM
I remember reading somewhere that the song actually was to make fun of the anti's but I guess the message never got clearly across, as ronnie did actually own firearms and was a hunter. Free Bird rocks too.

Engel
August 10, 2007, 07:14 PM
Guns were invented to kill. If you can find an arguement in that than your probably the guy that ate glue in the 1st grade.

Who cares if Lynyrd Skynyrd liked guns or not!!? They are known for making great southern rock not for their stance on gun politics! I love all their songs and can play most of them on guitar. Freebird still kicks my ass.

ArfinGreebly
August 10, 2007, 07:27 PM
Carl, Sarah Brady doesn't have a phobia.

She's not afraid of guns.

She carries a gun.

The whole "poor me, I'm a victim, look at my tragic husband" thing is an ACT.

People who have met her have marveled at the incongruity of her supposed fear of guns, her gracious and cool demeanor, and the fact that she will actually show people her gun, while saying that she doesn't mean to disarm everybody, just the "wrong people."

We are the "wrong people."

She's a fake.

Don't buy her act.

Nameless_Hobo
August 10, 2007, 08:33 PM
Yep, as a dude on another website said, they're just "good old boy gun grabbers."
You can state that it was a different time all you want, the point stands clear; This song is anti-gun.
It's also what turned me off of Skynyrd, either way the Allman brothers and Marshal Tucker band are better, by far.

CSA 357
August 10, 2007, 09:02 PM
:Dhey i love ls, that was what i grew up on, i didnt think any thing about it back then, but now i do wonder just what it is realy saying, but it was writen back then so i guess times have changed! i dont think they where anti gun, my favorite is curtis lowe! i had the 8 track of street survivors! my grand mother gave it to me after the crash in south ms, that was a big deal back then, *csa*

The Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 09:05 PM
But they have a song called "give me back my bullets"....

Hunter0924
August 10, 2007, 09:16 PM
I believe yall are reading way too much into this.
When it boils down to it the main purpose for handguns is for defending yourself.
You need to context the whole song to derive a meaning not just 1 or 2 lines. It is the sum of the parts that make the whole.
I am a big Skynard fan myself.

Smokewagon45
August 10, 2007, 09:31 PM
Dig the music and dig Lynerd Skynerd, but yeah it is anti gun.:barf:

Blackbeard
August 10, 2007, 09:37 PM
Just tune in your local hip-hop/rap station. Every song is pro-gun. Of course, not all are encouraging responsible ownership :)

68'chevelle
August 10, 2007, 10:55 PM
first of all, how dare you dis the greatest band in the world. (Note the rebel flag in the back ground) these guys are as redneck as they get. these songs are about killing these people. and also these lyrics are just made up words, they do not apply to their personal life. Ronnie Vanzant was the biggest put duct tape on everthing he owned type of redneck. that includes shootin stuff too. He believed gun control was hitting the target every time.:D

Kilgor
August 10, 2007, 11:25 PM
In the 1970's, many Southerners figured hunting, defending the home, and defending against invaders was best done with a rifle or shotgun and that a handgun was only meant to be hidden and used to kill. I don't agree with it and I have seen many of the people who came of age in the 1970's (late 40's to early 50's) change their views as CCW was become more common throughout the country. However, that was a common view in the South at the time.

JLelli
August 10, 2007, 11:32 PM
The Creedence Clearwater Revival song "Run Through the Jungle" is also what most here would consider anti-gun. It's just not as blunt as the Skynyrd song.

This is often believed to be about the Vietnam War, as it referred to a "jungle" and was released in 1970. The fact that previous CCR songs such as "Who'll Stop the Rain?" and "Fortunate Son" were protests of the Vietnam War added to this theory. In response, John Fogerty said: "I think a lot of people thought that because of the times, but I was talking about America and the proliferation of guns, registered and otherwise. I'm a hunter and I'm not antigun, but I just thought that people were so gun-happy -- and there were so many guns uncontrolled that it really was dangerous, and it's even worse now. It's interesting that it has taken 20-odd years to get a movement on that position."

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2997

randyman_ar
August 11, 2007, 12:39 AM
How can it not be anti-gun? According to the song the 'Saturday Night Special' evidently was invented for murder.... not self defense!

MP5
August 11, 2007, 09:21 AM
I wouldn't dig too deeply into any rock/pop lyrics, looking for wisdom about the RKBA or political issues. Rock is essentially by and for teenagers and 20-somethings, i.e., kids' music.

Merc41
August 11, 2007, 09:58 AM
In the 1970's, many Southerners figured hunting, defending the home, and defending against invaders was best done with a rifle or shotgun and that a handgun was only meant to be hidden and used to kill.

WHAT? I am from south west Louisiana, and in the 70's I used a 22 rifle for hunting, and carried a 41 magnum for a side arm, incase some of the squirrels got out of hand.

skynyrd1911
August 11, 2007, 10:54 AM
And Steven Tyler wears nail polish!:eek: Save your energy for your politicians and let's enjoy music as it is. Eveyone has different tastes. Mine is Lynyrd Skynyrd & 1911's ;)

Scanr
August 11, 2007, 11:04 AM
I would not be surprised that this was a dig at his brother. Groups would do things that that about one another, look at the Eagles' little dig at Steely Dan. Hotel California, "stab them with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast."

halvey
August 14, 2007, 12:33 PM
Not all guns.

Is a Saturday Night Special really much good for anything else but putting people 6 feet in a hole? Yeah, it's good for putting rapists, child molestors and car jackers in a hole.

It's called self defense.

Cosmoline
August 14, 2007, 12:49 PM
Of course it was anti-gun. The "Saturday Night Special" debate was at its height back in the 60's and 70's. It was the "assault weapon" of its time, and there were attempts to ban them from DC to many states. LS's drunken tirade against the firearm was an endorsement of these measures.

let's enjoy music as it is.

Would you enjoy a song from a band of today you like that said the only thing assault weapons was good for was killing people, and that they should all be dumped in the ocean?

Times change and if you understand this, you'll have a better understanding of the past.

I understand the past very well in this case. A bunch of drunk rockers decided the firearms were to blame for their personal problems and set about using their music to help ensure that you and I wouldn't have any concealable handguns, let alone CCW rights. They were on the wrong side, and the debate is far from over. The band should have been sunk in the ocean.

Kimber1911_06238
August 14, 2007, 12:52 PM
+1 on XLMiguel's point.

I listen to music for entertainment. To receive political advice from someone who knows an equal amount or less about politics than myself is just plain stupid.

eltorrente
August 14, 2007, 01:04 PM
Who cares if the song is "anti"? They were a great band.

I happen to think that there are a lot of "Big Jims" out there that have no business at all carrying a gun. They weren't singing about CCW ownership, they are talking about Saturday Night Specials that are used for robbing and killing, not lawful personal defense.

roscoe
August 14, 2007, 01:06 PM
I heard an interview on the radio with one of the LS members, and they talked about that song. He said that they wrote that song based on the death of a friend, even though "they all carried guns anyway".

Is there a more overrated song than "Freebird"? My head hurts when it comes on the radio.

romma
August 14, 2007, 01:08 PM
That old addage. "My handgun is there so I can fight my way to my rifle" comes to mind...

eltorrente
August 14, 2007, 01:11 PM
Is there a more overrated song than "Freebird"?

No.

It's actually a cool song, but man they overplayed it to death.

My favorite is probably Tuesday's Gone.

SSN Vet
August 14, 2007, 01:59 PM
oops

68'chevelle
August 15, 2007, 05:21 PM
My favorite is Gimme back my bullets.

LoverOfLiberty
August 15, 2007, 05:30 PM
Sarah Brady's hatred of guns also comes from personal experience.

Her husband was shot in a city with a gun ban.

::tries not to laugh::

CZ.22
August 15, 2007, 06:44 PM
it's entertainment
i hate mrk wahlberg's gun control position, doesn't make him a bad actor
same w/Daniel Craig
now while we are on the topic of southern rock, does anyone know the pro-gun position (or anti-gun) position of Big & Rich?
John Rich quotes his grandfather in their new album (Between Raising Hell and Amazing Grace, BUY IT!) that goes something like this "If it weren't for guns and American people who new how to use them, we'd all be salutin a swastika or a rising sun."
sounding like a hypocrite and just back from canoeing...
pres (CZ.22)

Dan from MI
August 16, 2007, 08:40 AM
Skynyrd's a great band, but that song is anti. I just skip that song when it comes on since I Don't feel link dumpin them to the bottom of the sea.

Simple Man, Needle and the Spoon, On the Hunt, Trust, Comin Home, and Sweet Home Alabama make up for it.

Cannonball888
August 16, 2007, 09:15 AM
If you're full of 'ludes and drink poor whiskey and play the song backwards you can hear "Ravens forever" http://atypically.net/smilies/toothless.gif

the pistolero
August 16, 2007, 09:22 AM
My favorite is probably Tuesday's Gone.
Yes, indeed! "Well, Tuesday, you see, she had to be free, but somehow I got to, carry ooooon...."
"Free Bird" is over-rated indeed, but I would rather hear it than "Saturday Night Special." All-time LS faves are "Tuesday's Gone," "Comin' Home" and "Gimme Back My Bullets."
Back to guns. What kinds of guns were they referring to as SNS back in that era? I know nowadays it seems to be the Lorcins, Jenningses & such, but was it the same back in the mid-1970s?
edit: Cannonball, that smiley is a riot! :D

Cannonball888
August 16, 2007, 09:38 AM
I believe SNSs back in the 70's were not legitamate commercially-made firearms like Lorcin, Raven, Jennings, etc, but rather cheap blackmarket-made guns with zinc castings.

Joe Demko
August 16, 2007, 09:42 AM
What I'm more concerned about is whether that Mozart fellow was pro-gun. He wrote some pretty music, but I just wouldn't feel right listening to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik if I thought it had anti-2A undertones.

Cosmoline
August 16, 2007, 12:45 PM
it's entertainment
i hate mrk wahlberg's gun control position, doesn't make him a bad actor

There's a huge difference. In this case, the LS song isn't entertainment, it's AGITPROP. No different from Bowling for Columbine. And as this thread shows, it HAS convinced many people that the "Saturday Night Specials" are good for nothin' Never mind that a "Saturday Night Special" is just a concealable handgun that folks in the quarters can afford. Never mind the racist roots of the whole concept of Saturday Night N____town Special.

I believe SNSs back in the 70's were not legitamate commercially-made firearms like Lorcin, Raven, Jennings, etc, but rather cheap blackmarket-made guns with zinc castings.

Wrong. They were any inexpensive handgun and included old Colts S&W's or anything else a poor person, esp. one with dark skin, could afford. The song and the concept of the SNS had NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY. The song isn't about a cheaply made zink revolver blowing a man's hand off. It blames a class of firearms for murder, and that my fine fellows is a CLASSIC anti-gun position.

MOREOVER, I think you fans need to read these lyrics carefully:

Hand guns are made for killin
Aint no good for nothin else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why dont we dump em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me


HAND GUNS. Not cheaply made zink knockoffs. But HAND GUNS! 'nuff said?

Joe Demko
August 16, 2007, 01:15 PM
Now that Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky fellow, he must have been pro-gun. His famous piece Festival Overture "The Year 1812" in E flat major aka "The 1812 Overture" even has a part that is often performed with real cannons! If that isn't some kickass pro-gun music, I don't know what is. It does raise the question "What cannon is best for musical performances?" though.

Scorpiusdeus
August 16, 2007, 03:00 PM
How dare anyone say my gun is for killing.... LOL

Do some of you guys interview every owner or every employee of every business you deal with to make sure they don't have any antis among them?

I refuse to give these guys the power to influence me. They have a right to their opinion and I don't put them so high up to think them spouting off matters.

There are plenty of nutty musicians and actors who stupid nutty things and I really don't care. I just care that I enjoy whatever song they sing or movie they make.

Cosmoline
August 16, 2007, 04:59 PM
How dare anyone say my gun is for killing.... LOL

Do you agree they should all be sent to the bottom of the ocean?

skynyrd1911
August 16, 2007, 06:34 PM
That particular song may be anti, but I do believe Ronnie and crew always had a revolver around.

skynyrd1911
August 16, 2007, 06:40 PM
Does anyone remember this???? It was on a album cover way back when.

mod700
August 16, 2007, 09:14 PM
dont feel bad peacefuljeffery, i thought it was gold too. many times i listened to that song and pictured a pistol barrel thats blue and gold. ha ha

lionking
August 17, 2007, 12:04 AM
guys,I read thru this with interest.It is true that the song is anti but at least in my case,I can seperate artists music or art,from their political or social views,unless their whole carreer was based on that agenda.I wouldn't want to play that song,but if my band outvoted me I would.Don't forget that some of most upscale,cleancut rich people are the biggest gungrabbers of all.Rage against the Machine,I hate the vocals and lyrics yet I like the guitar behind it.Greenday,I like them yet am not to crazy about the song American idiot.Pearl Jam,I hate them politically,they even rant about politics in concert but there are a couple songs I like and play in the band.Do you have any friends who are anti gun?I do yet their other qualities makes them a friend worth having.Not all rough looking rock n roll music people are anti though.(Signed lionking,who is a long haired guitar slinging rock n roller who looks like a stereotypical leftist hippie....but is not!):cool:

Picknlittle
August 17, 2007, 08:50 AM
How can it not be anti-gun?

I've always thought it was about what it says. The Saturday Night Special is not a gun that most responsible gun owners would own. They are cheaply made, many are unsafe to use, and mainly sought out as a throw away gun.

Who is the most likely purchaser of this junk? How many of you would depend on one as a primary CCW? How many of you would target shoot with one?

Are there folks who can't afford better guns who do have to depend on them for home protection? Most likely, yes, but I doubt they are the majority who purchase them.

the pistolero
August 17, 2007, 09:34 AM
The Saturday Night Special is not a gun that most responsible gun owners would own....Who is the most likely purchaser of this junk? How many of you would depend on one as a primary CCW? How many of you would target shoot with one?
No matter the extent to which that statement is true, it still comes off as a bit elitist; and using that angle for argument of their regulation is dangerous, because you're more or less conceding the antis' contention that the RKBA is negotiable because of what some people do with guns. The majority of them may be used in crimes -- no offense, but I'll believe that when I see some statistics. Ultimately, though, those stats don't amount to a hill of beans. I think that in the long run, throwing the cheap-pistol contingent under the bus is just as detrimental to the cause as throwing the pistol and EBR shooters under it -- and I don't mean to imply that's what you were trying to do, Picknlittle, but the people who would do that, no doubt use the exact arguments you put forth.

Atticus
August 17, 2007, 09:41 AM
"As they are from the South , I thought it strange as I always equated Southerners with hunting and such . Gun people . Like , Hank Jr ."

Or LBJ, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, or any number of other Southern Leaders?

BTW - John Fogerty and the rest of CCR are New Jersey boys.

Dave McCracken
August 17, 2007, 09:51 AM
I like Skynyrd's music. I hold their opinions on guns in the same high regard as I do the Dixie Chick's politics and the US Supreme Court's dazzling musicianship and intricate harmonies.

Sheesh!!

Cosmoline
August 17, 2007, 12:01 PM
The Saturday Night Special is not a gun that most responsible gun owners would own. They are cheaply made, many are unsafe to use, and mainly sought out as a throw away gun.

Kind of like no honest shooter needs more than ten rounds, eh? These lines between what a "responsible gun owner" would have and what "those other guys" own are a way antis have of dividing and destroying all of us. If you haven't figured that out by now you need to do some more research. But your whole line of thinking is exactly the sort supported by the song. It's a very old, very Southern way of looking at gun rights. Rooted in Jim Crow. It begins with the notion that while firearms are great, they're only kosher for the "right sort of people."

Carl N. Brown
August 17, 2007, 01:30 PM
Saturday Night Special is a label often misapplied to guns that
many responsible gun owners do own. Read Cook and Ludwig.

unsafe to use,
I remember reading Saturday Night Special, the book by the
noted anti-gunner Robert Sherrill, and he did have the honesty
to admit that there were no cases of anyone being seriously
injured by a exploding Saturday Night Special.

Most "classic" Saturday Night Specials--RG10, Clerke First, etc--
are now off the market, and what are street thugs using?
Check the ATF stats: the most common street crime guns are
high quality 9mm and 38 by Ruger, Smith, and Colt followed by
Lorcin, Jennings and Bryco simply because they are available,
not because they are more dersired.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, the street guns I saw sold or
traded in bars, flea markets, etc. tended to be military or
police sidearms, older mid quality guns like H&R or Iver Johnson,
then the cheap cast zinc imports from Germany or Spain.

Saturday Night Special is an elastic label, just like assault
weapon; once accepted, it is stretched to cover more guns.

beretta92d
August 17, 2007, 01:36 PM
P.S. Jim Morrison was an outstanding poet not a songwriter. Noone really understands that. They took his poetry and put it to music.

+1 was a major morrison fan back in high school(still a fan)

Scorpiusdeus
August 17, 2007, 01:36 PM
Do you agree they should all be sent to the bottom of the ocean? Lawyers or guns?

Of course I don't unless I'm down there with Scuba gear and a large bag.

It's just a song. He gets one vote just like you and I.

Carl N. Brown
August 17, 2007, 01:41 PM
Blue and gold ... blue and cold .... someone got buzzed on singing bee.

Two feets they come a creepin'
Like a black cat do
And two bodies are lyin' naked
Creeper think he got nothin' to lose
So he creeps into this house, yeah
And unlocks the door
And while a man reaching for his trousers
Shoots him full of .38 holes

So this "creeper" sneaks in on a couple lying naked,
thinking he has nothing to lose, and gets shot.
That is supposed to be a bad thing?

Mat, not doormat
August 17, 2007, 07:10 PM
So this "creeper" sneaks in on a couple lying naked,
thinking he has nothing to lose, and gets shot.
That is supposed to be a bad thing?


I think it's the creeper doing the shooting, but the grammar is so far from normal speech that it's hard to tell.

~~~Mat

Cosmoline
August 17, 2007, 08:57 PM
It would have been fine if the creeper had shot the man full of honest, lord-fearing buckshot holes.

Mauserguy
August 17, 2007, 10:26 PM
"Give me back my bullets" was not about guns, but rather the bullets placed next to top ranked songs. The song was about moving up the charts, that's all.
Mauserguy


PS: I just saw Skynard three weeks ago in Costa Mesa. I broke out my rebel flag after that show.

Picknlittle
August 17, 2007, 10:29 PM
Pistolero,

No matter the extent to which that statement is true, it still comes off as a bit elitist; and using that angle for argument of their regulation is dangerous, because you're more or less conceding the antis' contention that the RKBA is negotiable because of what some people do with guns.


I'm certainly no elitist. I'm one of the folks asking about info on "dependable" "inexpensive" handguns. I'm not talking about regulation either. This thread has done what so many others have,..it morphed into something other than the original issue or question, which was, "is the song anti gun". I say no. I say the issue is the SNS, because the SNS 's that I have seen were very cheap, unsafe, and even quirky at best. They have all been very cheap revolvers, largely made of some cast material. They weren't the kind of thing most folks relied on to keep on the nightstand for protection, but when a store clerk or a mugging victim was looking down the barrel, pistol pedigree wasn't one of the concerns they had.

I'm not dissin inexpensive guns or those who own them. There are folks here who wouldn't own a Charter Arms, Lorcin, Hi Point, AMT or any of the many other cheap guns, and these are not what I refer to as SNS's. Other folks will find these cheap guns a better option than a rock and a prayer.

There is inexpensive or affordable for someone like myself, understanding that reasonable dependability is necessary, and there is "throw away cheap, but gotta look like a gun from the muzzle end" crap. This is the traditional SNS that was built underground and sold on street corners and in alleys back when this song was written. Do they still exist? I don't know. I've been out of touch with gun markets for a long time.

I was simply talking about what the song represents. Some will see it as anti gun, but knowing the time the song was written and the folks that wrote and performed it, I have to believe it is about a plague of the time, the true SNS.

Cosmoline
August 17, 2007, 10:35 PM
a plague of the time, the true SNS.

As others have pointed out, that "plague" never existed. It was one of a long line of myths cooked up by antis to chip away at the RKBA. This band bought into it, and I guess some of their fans have too. I guess if you wrap an idea in the proper flag you can get people to buy it.

XLMiguel
August 17, 2007, 10:49 PM
The term "Saturday NIght Special" came form a song titled, IIRC, "******town Saturday Night".

Use your imagination, but not a real 'positive' connotation. Honky-tonkin', drunkeness, stupidity, racism, irresponsible behavior by any other name. Not quite the high point of Southern Culture, in any event . . . :rolleyes:

I like Lynard Skynard's music regarless (and I do read that song as 'anti'), but like the bible, you can find a meaning you like in most any POS pop music song if you twist it enough.

Picknlittle
August 17, 2007, 11:46 PM
As others have pointed out, that "plague" never existed. It was one of a long line of myths cooked up by antis to chip away at the RKBA. This band bought into it, and I guess some of their fans have too. I guess if you wrap an idea in the proper flag you can get people to buy it.

Cosmoline, I hope you are not going to try to tell me that the SNS never existed. I'll certainly have to disagree. No name, no markings, no numbers. I had two of them given to me a good many years ago. I was about as country as I could get and even I could find them if I wanted them.


Recognizing what these pieces of junk were/are, and what they were commonly used for has absolutely nothing to do with RKBA. I do support safe weapons.

the pistolero
August 18, 2007, 08:00 AM
I see where you're coming from, Picknlittle, and I did not mean to imply you were an elitist by any means; but as far as the song goes, I can't help but think that Edward King and Ronnie Van Zant wrote that song as a demonization of all defensive sidearms. Call me pedantic, but you'd think if they were only raising awareness of unsafe weaponry they'd have tried to work in something about Big Jim's gun blowing up in his hand. Aside from that, I agree with those who say that the term "Saturday Night Special" is just like the term "assault weapon" in that it's completely subjective and therefore may be applied to whatever firearm the antis want to make the bete noire du jour. But in any event, the Skynyrd song is classic anti posturing -- taking the willful misbehavior of a few and advocating ridding society of all defensive weaponry based on the aforementioned few miscreants.
"Handguns are made for killin', they ain't no good for nothin' else." If that isn't a talking point straight from a Handgun Control/Violence Policy Center/Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (the organization formerly known as the Coalition to Ban Handguns) press release, then what is?

Picknlittle
August 18, 2007, 09:01 AM
Pistolero, I get your drift. I believe that we have come upon one of the many dangers associated with applying rational thinking to song lyrics.

This song, like many others, can and will be seen in a variety of context based on personal history and understanding.

Case in point: The song Illegal Smile, by John Prine, was first performed on television. The name of the show escapes me, but there was a marijuana plant in the background while John was performing his new song.

The chorus is: "But fortunately, I have the key, to escape reality and you can see me tonight with an illegal smile. It don't cost very much, but it last a long while. Won't you please tell the man, I didn't kill anyone, I'll just trying to have me some fun."

When ask if the song was pro-drugs, he explained that it was a funny song about a guy with mental issues. He said he understood how people could think it was about drugs seeing the plant in the background, but that definitely was not the case.

I play and sing this song for it's comic value. Still, I have a hard time thinking the song isn't pro marijuana without considering that JP wrote lots of odd lyrics about mental diseases without making those diseases the central topic.

Music is what it is. Wanna really screw yer head up, try cyphering the lyrics to Mr. Tambourine Man. :)

Picknlittle
August 18, 2007, 09:35 AM
But in any event, the Skynyrd song is classic anti posturing -- taking the willful misbehavior of a few and advocating ridding society of all defensive weaponry based on the aforementioned few miscreants.
"Handguns are made for killin', they ain't no good for nothin' else." If that isn't a talking point straight from a Handgun Control/Violence Policy Center/Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (the organization formerly known as the Coalition to Ban Handguns) press release, then what is?

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.

From it's inception, the handgun has been a weapon. You can play "which came first, chicken or egg" all you want. The handgun and it's big brother, the long gun were/are weapons. They are designed to inflict bodily harm at a distance, be it man or beast. Target shooting came about out of necessity, because in order to reliably hit their target the shooter had to practice.

Then came competitive and recreational shooting. The handgun still wasn't a practical first choice for providing food, so it evolved into SD, HD and finally sport for the shooting enthusiast.

Even by our standards (THR discussions), handguns primarily are for inflicting harm and bodily injury. As with life insurance, most hope to never need it, but we fully expect to at some point. This places the gun in context as a means of defense, and shooting a means of staying sharp for that time when the policy is called into effect.

The purpose of the handgun remains the same. Our intent, defines it's use as a tool. Defensive or offensive context is established by the user. Anti's want to believe that all gun owners are capable of criminal activity, instead of being prepared to counter it.

I used to carry an Interarms Firestar .45 ACP,...not legally, but it was always near. I planned to attend the carry permit training in the very near future, but many things got in the way. I was asked once why I chose the 45. There had been a lot of discussion concerning the stopping power of 9mm and smaller rounds and the need for intentional kill shots when using 9mm or smaller. My answer was that I didn't want to have to kill the intruder, I wanted to stop him, but I also wanted to leave a permanent reminder behind. If I hit a shoulder or leg, he'd never have full use of it again. That's why I kept it loaded with Hydra shok HPs.

I did enjoy shooting the pistol, especially because I had no trouble hitting what I aimed at out to 30 yds., but the gun did have a purpose. It was an insurance policy that bit back by inflicting harm. The shooting was all about preparation and keeping the policy in force,...kinda like making premium payments.

gunsmith
August 18, 2007, 11:33 AM
Old and in the way is the name of one of Jerry Garcia's (greatful dead) bands.
Jerry got busted for carrying pistols without a license 2 or 3 times, A fact deadheads have no knowledge of.

In the 70's liberals had complete control of the propaganda outlets like Time magazine and there was a "movement" against "saturday night specials"

They probably thought they were cashing in.

Anyway this thread is older then they are.

the pistolero
August 18, 2007, 10:04 PM
I believe that we have come upon one of the many dangers associated with applying rational thinking to song lyrics.
But as Cosmoline said, this isn't just a song -- it's agitprop. And awfully bad agitprop, exposed as such precisely because of that rational thinking.

The handgun and it's big brother, the long gun were/are weapons. They are designed to inflict bodily harm at a distance, be it man or beast.
Point taken; but, at the same time, the implication of the song is that application of lethal force is always bad, unless, I suppose, it's done by someone in a blue uniform and a badge.
In any event, though, it's cool we can disagree and be civil about it. One of the things I love about the people who hang out here. :D

Joe Demko
August 18, 2007, 11:01 PM
But as Cosmoline said, this isn't just a song -- it's agitprop. And awfully bad agitprop, exposed as such precisely because of that rational thinking.

That's merely Cosmolines opinion...and I wouldn't get too hasty about crediting anyone remotely concerned with this thread with too much rational thinking.

the pistolero
August 18, 2007, 11:13 PM
I wouldn't get too hasty about crediting anyone remotely concerned with this thread with too much rational thinking.
Your posting in this thread seems to indicate you're at least "remotely concerned" with it. So should I therefore not credit you with "too much rational thinking"? :rolleyes:

W.E.G.
August 18, 2007, 11:17 PM
I seen Skynyrd at Wolf Trap last summer.

Helluva show. They didn't play "Saturday Night Special."

The song has a powerful beat, but I got a feeling the current members of the band don't dig the lyrics nowadays any more than we do. They have a ton of good songs to play anyway, without having to play
THAT ONE in Virginia.

Cannonball888
August 19, 2007, 09:53 AM
The band probablyto wrote an anti-song just to score with the hippie groupie chicks. When in your past did you ever do or say something contrary to your own beliefs just for the nookie?

Joe Demko
August 19, 2007, 10:12 AM
Your posting in this thread seems to indicate you're at least "remotely concerned" with it. So should I therefore not credit you with "too much rational thinking"?

Yep. I find it impossible to attach any real importance to the topic of this thread; hence, my silly replies upthread. When we start using words like "agitprop" and patting ourselves on the back for how keen we are for seeing the real meaning, it's time to take a deep breath and step back.

the pistolero
August 19, 2007, 11:09 AM
When we start using words like "agitprop" and patting ourselves on the back for how keen we are for seeing the real meaning, it's time to take a deep breath and step back.
Yes, well, "that's merely (your) opinion." I don't know and don't really care why you think it's so silly, but apparently there are a few of us who do find it worthy of discussion. As for patting oneself on the back, I daresay the above-quoted snippet is just as much of an example of that as anything said in this thread. But that's ok. You say tuh-mah-toe, I say tuh-may-toe.

Joe Demko
August 19, 2007, 12:43 PM
I think it is silly because the young men who wrote that song were hard-drinking, bar-fighting, southern rednecks. Crediting them with producing "agitprop" and looking for deeper, sinister meanings in their music ascribes entirely too much importance to them and their work and, moreover, also implies an agenda on their part that I strongly suspect does not exist outside of your imagination.
Have you tried playing it backwards yet? I've been told that when you do that you can hear the members of the band conducting an acapella scat round based on The Communist Manifesto.

Cosmoline
August 19, 2007, 02:56 PM
Cosmoline, I hope you are not going to try to tell me that the SNS never existed. I'll certainly have to disagree. No name, no markings, no numbers.

You're describing a handgun that's been scrubbed, and is probably stolen. The firearms classed as "SNS" were not manufactured with no SN's, no names and no markings. They were simply handguns inexpensive enough for people to afford.

That's merely Cosmolines opinion...and I wouldn't get too hasty about crediting anyone remotely concerned with this thread with too much rational thinking.

Hey, I'm just reading the lyrics! Once again:


Hand guns are made for killin
Aint no good for nothin else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why dont we dump em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

If you're going to tell me that's not anti-gun agitprop, I'm going to ask you what you're drinking. LS may well have been a bunch of proud southerners, but they somehow managed to hit on the biggest talking point of the anti-gun movement of the 70's and drive it home in a popular song. What do you think is more dangerous--a movie a few million people see or a song hundreds of millions hear and love? LS did us all enormous damage, make no mistake. To refuse to recognize a political position they take with NO UNCERTAIN TERMS in their lyrics borders on madness.

Joe Demko
August 20, 2007, 10:18 AM
LS did us all enormous damage, make no mistake.

What evidence do you have for this assertion?

Chris25
October 9, 2007, 08:51 AM
Lynyrd Skynyrd have long been my favourite band. "Simple Man" "Tuesdays gone" and "Freebird" are all superb pieces, i've brought nearly all their songs and I find all their tunes superb, that is all but "Saturday Night Special" and "That smell".

Never thought much of this song till I read the lyrics. Oh NO my favourite band are a bunch of leftist, do-gooding, anti-gun nuts. But are they? How can they be? No other Lynyrd Skynyrd song says anything anti-gun or leftist, in actual fact there are other Skynyrd songs which have references to guns.

Ronnies Van Zant's brother formed .38 Special (another Southern Rock band) We all know what thats about ;)

Ronnie was a keen shooter. He had handguns. He had rifles. He hunted. He was a skilled marksman. Surely if he was anti-gun he couldnt even stand even looking at an "evil" gun?

Then there are Skynyrd logos and t-shirts with .38 revolvers on them. Can you imagine an anti allowing that?

Knowing all this, I looked at the lyrics-


Hand guns are made for killin
Aint no good for nothin else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why dont we dump em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

simple satirical sarcasm. "dump all handguns to the bottom of the sea" is actually taking the piss, but in a subtle way.

jgorniak
October 9, 2007, 02:08 PM
Gimme Back My Bullets...

...referred to the group's legal struggles with their record company, MCA.

The bullets were their high-charting singles and the associated publishing rights to those songs.

I've always remembered this from a radio interview ("Rockline", maybe) many years ago...

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