Anyone Hate Kahrs?


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Air,Land&Sea
March 27, 2005, 07:29 AM
I've tried a few and they just don't feel right, but I keep coming back for more because of the size. Pisses me off.

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mtnbkr
March 27, 2005, 08:06 AM
Nope. I like my K9. It fits my hand perfectly. My only quibble is that I'd rather the DA trigger be a tad shorter, but otherwise, it's the perfect CCW for me. This weekend, I was dinging a 4" spinner at 25yds fairly regularly. Winchester Ranger T 147's were going THROUGH an old harddrive at that distance too. :D

Chris

WillBrayJr
March 27, 2005, 08:58 AM
Don't hate Kahrs at all. There's just better pistols for the same amount of $$$.

larry starling
March 27, 2005, 10:07 AM
Kahrs look nice,But Im with Willbrayjr there are better guns out there for the same money! :evil:

Krag
March 27, 2005, 10:11 AM
IMHO the Kahr is the finest CCW pistol in this quadrant of the galaxy! :D

I've owned several and presently use a PM9. In the morning I put on my pants and I holster my PM9. Carry it all day and am not even aware it's there.

I love the DAO trigger and I can shoot it as well as a full sized pistol out to 10-12 yards. Hell, if the phrase wasn't taken already I'd say it was "Perfection!" :neener:

hollowpointt
March 27, 2005, 10:19 AM
Those who say there are better pistols for the $$$, pick em please.

Gunz
March 27, 2005, 10:23 AM
I LOVE Kahrs. In fact, I have 8 of them. They are all the steel models in stainless or nickel, though.

For the size, they are appealing. I like the K40 and K9 models for total comfort, accuracy, and grip size.

They are brick heavy.

They are pricey.

You CAN get more rounds, in a similar weight gun, and maybe for less money.

Still, if you wnat one, you pay for it.

I spent my money, and I have no regrets.

gau5
March 27, 2005, 11:02 AM
My PM9 was not as accurate as my early P9. The barrels are different, a little more beef on the P9. Kept the P9, shoots like a laser and very reliable. Due to the patented trigger/offset ramp design, you will never find thinner 9 by any manufacturer.

gbelleh
March 27, 2005, 11:05 AM
I love my PM9. It's so thin, light, and easy to carry! :)

Richard
March 27, 2005, 11:14 AM
I used my Kahrs for CCW for a long time but I stopped because I didn't like leaving an expensive weapon in my car. Michigan law forbids carry in many places. Even though I have a safe in my trunk I didn't care to leave $800 worth of gun in the car. In regard to quality/accuracy a Kahr will hold its own with any. Regards, Richard :D

Navy joe
March 27, 2005, 11:48 AM
Yes, I hate them. I have had two and currently have one which is waiting to be sent back to the Kahr mothership for repair.
-The one I still have is a K40 and its main problem is that after 300 rounds the barrel hood locking area is being peened to the point of non-existence, working back like the edge of a much whacked chisel or punch would. Not wanting a blowback .40 it has been retired.

-I went to put night sights on the same gun, holy mother of God, do the dovetails need to be that poorly cut that it takes about 80 metric butt tons of foce to free them?

-The same gun likes to prematurely lock back due to insufficient spring tension on the slide stop pin. No I'm not riding it, as a lefty there is no finger there. MK40 had the same issue, different(older) spring design and I was able to re-tension.

The other was the previously mentioned MK40. After doing several things to fix the slide lock issue the gun was quite reliable except for working out grip screws and blowing off front sights, recoil just cracked the blade right off. I quit carrying this gun because it was a heavy BUG (ankle carried usually) and too small to be a real gun.

Kahr to me seems over-priced, sketchy customer service, and Para-Ordnance-esque quality control. I think I got a Friday afternoon parts bin gun in that K40.

Mark13
March 27, 2005, 12:04 PM
I have a rare K9 model in Black-T finish. I find it more difficult to shoot accurately than a larger, or SA pistol, and my finger starts to sting after 3 or 4 mags. I love it for concealed carry. It's so thin and compact yet the barrel is still 3.5".

The K9 exists to fill the concealable in any attire, +P+ 9mm durable pistol niche. If you judge it by any other standard it comes up short.

I paid $550 for mine, I don't think that's pricey or inexpensive?

WillBrayJr
March 27, 2005, 01:27 PM
Sigarms P232 cheaper, Sigarms P239 cheaper, Glock26, Glock27, Glock36 cheaperX3. Well about the same price on the polymer Kahrs. The Sigs I mentioned are cheaper than the Metal Kahrs :p

Double Naught Spy
March 27, 2005, 01:32 PM
Aren't all those larger than the Kahrs?

Felonious Monk
March 27, 2005, 01:36 PM
Yep, I do hate them.
I own a Kel-Tec P11 (EXCELLENT gun once you've tweaked it like you want it), a Sig P232 and unfortunately, I just cannot pocket carry either of these.

I'm going to buy an MK9 this week by default, gritting my teeth the whole time.
Unless you want to get robbed of nearly a thousand dollars for a Rohrbaugh, it's pretty much the only game in town.

R.H. Lee
March 27, 2005, 01:40 PM
Never gave them much thought, actually, as I don't consider them a major firearms manufacturer.

peashooter
March 27, 2005, 01:51 PM
Naa, I love my Kahr.....it's Glocks I hate. :evil: Just kidding about the Glocks.
My E-9 is accurate as hell and works every time I pull the bang lever.

PCRCCW
March 27, 2005, 02:08 PM
Better guns for the money..........no. As good yes.......
Sigs are great guns.....the 230-232 are larger and smaller in caliber,
The 239 is the same size as a 3913 S&W, Glocks are not that much cheaper and are freaking bricks compared to the little Kahrs. I guess to each his own.
Sorry rant off :D......nothing personal to you or your choice of guns.....all are quality weapons....but so are Kahrs.


Kahrs have problems just like any other mechanical device but for the money, you wont find better workmanship, accuracy etc in ANY other gun.

They are not for everyone as no guns are. But they are as close to the most perfect CCW package most people can find when looking for a small/quality gun. In alot of peoples opinions.........

Shoot well.

albanian
March 27, 2005, 02:13 PM
For what they are, I think they are best gun made. For a compact 9mm, they seem to fill the niche perfectly. I don't know of a compact 9mm that is as small and thin as the Kahr K-9 that is as good. The closest thing would be the SIG 239 which is larger and thicker and sits much higher in the hand. If you couldn't afford the Kahr K-9, the SIG 239 might be a decent option but why settle for second best when you don't have to?

The SIG 232 is a .380 is it is not even playing in the same league. The Glock26 and 27 are too fat. The Glock 36 is MUCH larger in all ways.

People seem to think the all steel Kahrs are heavy but they don't weigh any more than a S&W 3913 or SIG 239 and they have alloy frames. I think they feel heavy for their size but that is just because they are compact. If they were larger but weighed the same, they wouldn't feel like such brick. The weight is my main problem with them, I wish they would make one in alloy or Titanium instead of plastic. I hate plastic and even if I buy a plastic gun, i end up getting rid of it soon after.

No_Brakes23
March 27, 2005, 02:21 PM
Double Naught Spy said...
Aren't all those larger than the Kahrs?
The SIG P232 is .6" longer than the Kahr K9 and a negligible .2 " taller.

Kahr lists their slide width as .9" and my wife's SIG measures .875", but the SIG being rounded rather than square is effectively even smaller than that.

On the other hand, the SIG is .380 versus the Kahrs 9mm. I dunno how much ballistic difference there is between the 9mm parabellum and the 9mm kurz.

I like the fit and finish on the SIG, I have never handled a Kahr.

Felonious Monk
March 27, 2005, 03:11 PM
Ahh, but what is the comparison to the PM9/MK9?
THERE'S the true difference.

Felonious Monk
March 27, 2005, 03:12 PM
Ahh, but what is the comparison to the PM9/MK9?
THERE'S the true difference.

Also, if the .380 is what we're looking to conceal, my P3AT is the most concealable. I need a 9mm parabellum.

Sistema1927
March 27, 2005, 04:08 PM
Kahr PM9 rides in the pocket full-time and gives me 6+1 of 9mm.

What is not to like?

Old Fud
March 27, 2005, 04:21 PM
I have 2 K9s and just picked up a PM9.
All 3 shoot POA out of the box.
Not one has ever mis-ANYTHING. (Mis-fired, mis-fed, failed to extract, - - - - )
The trigger is sweet -- I prefer it to Glock or XD and it's better than any of my other pieces when I shoot them DA.

Once you get used to hammering that miserable pin out while holding the slide in precisely one position by strength of hand ONLY (I'm developing arthritis in my thumbs btw), take-down and re-assembly are EZ.

Yeah, I've become a fan.

But my daughters don't like the recoil.
It's a fact --- with the low what-cha-callit, the gun kicks straight back into the cup of your hand -- little/no flipping action. And that's un-relieved metal frame doing the kicking too.
It didn't help that I was using some 1985 surplus "Mystery" load that was much hotter than what you buy today.

Comment: The PM9 feels like it weighs less than half of the K9, yet the kick is about the same. It's Magic.

Fud

1911.45
March 27, 2005, 04:34 PM
My PM9 also rides in my front pocket. I use it primarily as a BUG. As a pocket gun, it has a specific function, and it has performed very well. It was expensive, but I am worth it (and besides, it is my money). If there is a smaller, lighter, more concealable, better quality 9mm (or larger caliber) autoloader available for less money, please let me know, and I will buy it.

I used to carry a S&W 340 PD Scandium J-frame (which was also expensive), but I can shoot better with the PM9, although it is 2 ounces heavier. Additionally, I believe that 9mm is a better defensive round than .38 special, and I could not shoot .357 competently in the J-frame, although I do not attribute that to any fault of the gun, and I would not suggest that there are not many shooters who could competently shoot .357 magnum from the 12 ounce revolver.

I had also heard that the recoil from .357 was so severe in the 340 PD and similar models that bullets were moving forward far enough in the cartridges on occasion to prevent the cylinders from turning and preventing the guns from firing. In response, IIRC, S&W indicated that bullets less than a specific weight should not be used.

WillBrayJr
March 27, 2005, 04:41 PM
I seriously doubt Sigs are second best :rolleyes: Keep whinning and complaining because opinions are like southern exits, everbody has one :neener:

denfoote
March 27, 2005, 04:45 PM
No, can't say that I do!
My MK9 is a decent little gun. :)

Felonious Monk
March 27, 2005, 06:57 PM
Will,
I really don't for a minute believe that a Kahr comes anywhere close to a Sig in terms of quality.

I believe that the minute Sig puts something out on the market that is 9mm, 5.3" long, 4" high and .9" wide, I'll be all over it.

Until then, I have to settle for a Kahr.

WillBrayJr
March 27, 2005, 07:21 PM
Like I said everyone has opinions :) The world wouldn't be "so-called" normal without them ;)

Gewehr98
March 27, 2005, 08:32 PM
Matter of fact, I'm looking for a second K9 for my wife. Then I can have mine back from her. I bought it used, a FDLE trade-in, for $350.00.

Fits my hand perfectly, her little hand perfectly, smooth DAO trigger, excellent accuracy, and eminently packable. I'd feel dirty if I spent the extra money on a Sig for no real gain. ;)

If for some reason I want more gun in that small a package, I carry my Caspian Officer's ACP.

http://mauser98.com/doubletrouble.jpg

Roger rodbolt
March 27, 2005, 10:47 PM
My remaining Kahrs are a PM9 and a P40 since the weight of steel framed Kahrs required belt holsters for me and I have 1911 models that I prefer for that. I like the PM9 alot but since purchasing a Rohrbaugh R9s last year I'm thinking of selling both Kahrs and buying another Rohrbaugh. The R9s can be rear pocket carried where I can't with the PM9, difference being the additional thickness of the Kahr and being "brick like" where the Rohrbaugh is radiused or "melted". The Rohrbaugh conceals better in the front pocket and is lighter to boot. For the past several weeks I've been wearing a Kramer Confidant shirt holster with the Rohrbaugh on one side and the PM9 or Scandium 342 PD S&W on the other side. The better comfort of the Rohrbaugh is VERY noticable and I shoot the R9s better too. Moral of my story is.........don't buy a Rohrbaugh.............it may cost you twice :D,

As a side note I purchased the Rohrbaugh for $800 from a law enforcement officer who found it to be too small to retrieve from the front/center pocket of his Kevlar vest. He was going back to a Kahr P9........each to his own.

Alan Fud
March 27, 2005, 10:49 PM
Don't like guns that are internal striker fired -- this includes Kahrs, Glocks, etc. Give Kahr a concealed but external hammer (like the Colt Pocket Nine, NAA Guardian, etc.) with a repeat striker capability and I'll be buying every model they make.

bratch
March 27, 2005, 10:55 PM
Only thing I hate about it is I shot the range rental alot better than I can shoot mine :banghead:

12GA
March 28, 2005, 08:24 AM
Nuthin' but love for Kahrs & Sigs here. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/12Gauge/SamsonGoliath.jpg

Mixlesplick
March 28, 2005, 08:59 AM
I like the Kahrs. I wanted to get a Glock 27 for ccw but it just felt big next to the Kahr K40. My K40 in a kydex IWB holster just disappears in the daily situations where I absolutely cannot get made. If I wasn't worried about printing I would have bought the Glock.

As far as how it shoots I do fairly well with it. Also, the recoil of this little gun doesn't bother me at all. :)

ABBOBERG
March 28, 2005, 01:44 PM
Hate is a strong word, but I can honestly say that I would not carry my Kahr PM9 because I know that I can't count on it working when I need it. Even though I have shot more than 200 rounds through it (past the recommended break-in), I had a feed-ramp jam on it a few days ago. It was the 8th shot out of 24 that I did for that session using ball ammo.
I tried rapping the slide, but the round was firmly wedged between the magazine and the feed ramp, so I had work the magazine out to get it cleared. In the past, I have commented on "rim lock" with this same pistol. This also holds the slide open so tightly that the magazine has to be pulled out. When I talked to Justin Moon about it at the SHOT show, he said he had never heard of that happening (even though I had been in communcation with their customer service department about this matter months earlier).

Even if Kahr were to engineer-out the problems I am currently having, I still wouldn't carry the gun because of the precarious grip. Yes, I have large hands, but what excuse does Kahr have for just chopping off the K9 grip to create the PM9? If you are going to design a new gun with a shorter grip, why wouldn't you move the trigger and trigger guard ahead a little bit, leaving a well behind it, similar to what revolvers have, so that normal people can get a firm hold on this gun? I think that Kahr was trying to keep their "look" the same.

Again, I don't hate my Kahr PM9, I just think it is mediocre at best, and will be trying to sell it in the near future.

As far as competition - Kahr really only has Rohrbaugh, but the sense I got at SHOT show is that some of the big players will be getting into the game of single-stack "pocket rockets" in the next couple of years....

Air,Land&Sea
March 28, 2005, 01:48 PM
Interesting comment about other manufacturers discovering an increased demand in this market niche. I'd like to see something along the lines of a Sig P232 in 9mm, yesterday.

ABBOBERG
March 28, 2005, 01:52 PM
I think you are pretty close to the mark!

No_Brakes23
March 29, 2005, 11:18 AM
Air,Land&Sea said...I'd like to see something along the lines of a Sig P232 in 9mm, yesterday.
No kidding. I almost had my wife convinced on the wee .40 Glock, but she liked the feel and finish of the SIG better. I sat there wondering why there was no 230 series in .40 or at least 9mm.

I am absolutely impressed with the quality of the SIG, and despite my dislike of DA and tiny pistols that snap, I truely enjoy shooting it. When the time comes to get another 1911, I will definitely be looking at the GSR.

I hate those SIG $40-$60 magazines, though. Why can't I get a Chip McCormick 8 rounder for the SIG? Damn proprietary magazines.

As for Kahr, I can't speak ill of them, never having handled one. They seem like a decent product.

LeonCarr
March 29, 2005, 01:10 PM
I have never given much thought to them, I would rather have a snubby .38/.357 or a baby glock.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

tetchaje1
March 29, 2005, 02:02 PM
I don't care for them because of their sketchy QC.

I had an MK9 with the Elite 98 trigger and Meps. The gun was accurate and reliable enough but had horrible pits on the frame where the casting defects didn't clean up. Not to mention that the dust cover was thick on one side and thin enough to shave with on the other. The gun was as heavy as a brick for its tiny size.

Someday I may look into a PM9 (if they make them with the Elite trigger), but I've never had any issue with concealing my P239 or my USP Compact, so that may be in the diiiiiiiistant future.

Gordon Fink
March 29, 2005, 03:33 PM
Yes, I have large hands, but …

Then Kahr pistols are probably not for you. There are plenty of large handguns around, so please enjoy them. For those of us with medium to small hands, Kahr is among the few brands that fit us well.

~G. Fink, who has already learned that all firearms are junk :D

CougarRed
March 29, 2005, 11:09 PM
I think most agree that the Smith 3913 is a good and respected carry gun.

The Kahr K9 weighs the same, is slightly smaller, has a better trigger, and isn't lawyered up with safeties.

The K9 is smaller than the USP Compact. Smaller than the Sig P239.

I don't know of a better steel 9mm Kahr K9's size or smaller.

As for the polymer Kahrs, I trust my life to a P9 Covert, which I carry every day in my front pants pocket. Nothing Glock makes comes close IMO.

I can't say enough good things about my Kahr experience.

psyopspec
March 30, 2005, 01:52 AM
I own and conceal a PM9. I've never had an easier time getting a pistol to slink into whatever I'm wearing as I have with the Kahr.

For a small (pocket carried), 9mm (or above), quality piece, there's nothing on the market that currently matches it except the uber-expensive Rohrbaugh. When Glock, Sig, HK, Colt, et al. can make a comparable offering, I'll check it out. It's not that I love or hate Kahr as a brand; my loyalty is to the mix of power, quality, and concealability that have spoiled me since owning this gun.

Glocker
March 30, 2005, 06:05 AM
price :mad: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

perrytrails
March 30, 2005, 07:50 AM
No hate here, two Kahrs for me. P9 and PM9.

They just work for me. Plain and simple. :cool:

Browns Fan
March 30, 2005, 08:08 AM
Quote:
"My E-9 is accurate as hell and works every time I pull the bang lever."

Wow, an E-9! It's been a long time since I've seen one of these... why did they stop making them?

MrMurphy
March 30, 2005, 08:18 AM
I like them a lot, however I'm a .45 ACP guy, if I need a pocket piece, I get a S&W 642.


The P9/K9 is my "perfect sized" carry gun in 9mm. If I chose to do so.

12GA
March 30, 2005, 08:31 AM
Someday I may look into a PM9 (if they make them with the Elite trigger)

The Elite trigger comes standard on all PM9's.

bnolsen
March 30, 2005, 09:11 AM
For me the kahr fits int he same group as the XD. There's nothing to hold onto. I'm not going to buy a pistol that costs more than any of my other firearms unless it's going to fit me. I have a keltec P3-AT which is much easier on the pocketbook and works very well as a BUG. I prefer to spend my big money on pistols that I can actually hold in my hand and fire (large frame CZ is current preferred).

Felonious Monk
March 30, 2005, 01:45 PM
What makes the "Elite" trigger so desirable?
Anybody know if it comes on the MK9093BX I just ordered? It doesn't say on Kahr's website.

vwfool
March 30, 2005, 11:12 PM
I don't hate Kahrs, just their triggers. I have heard they have gotten better, but I have yet to try one recently.

Johnny Guest
April 5, 2005, 12:42 PM
Thread closed.
Please see floated thread at top of Handguns: Autoloaders forum, at - -
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=133354

Best,
Johnny Guest
THR Moderator,
Handguns: Autoloaders Forum

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