Confirmed 1800 yard kill on elk


PDA






Steve Smith
March 12, 2003, 12:58 PM
Ok, you guys will get a kick out of this, and perhaps get mad a little like I did.

I know a guy who made a 1800+ yard kill shot on an elk this past hunting season.

There were 9 witnesses, and I know 6 of them personally, and I know the shooter.

Cartridge was a .30-378.

Apparently, part of the party was on a ridge and located the elk lying down near a rock, approx 200 yards away but they couldn't get a good shot on it and couldn't move closer without spooking it. They radioed to the shooter (we'll call him Bob) about what they'd found. Bob offered to shoot in that direction to hopefully get the elk to stand up and move. He was a LONG ways away. Bob aimed very high and squeezed the trigger. Moments later, the guys on the ridge radioed "you killed it. " They had seen it jerk through their spotting scope. "I can't believe it." No one believed it, in fact. The party waited another half hour and the elk never moved, so they approached it. Sure enough, the elk was dead. The bullet had missed all bones and had passed through both lungs. It did not exit nor expand. The shot was verified with a rangefinder. Of course, that accuracy is somewhat up in the air, but several measurements were taken.

When I heard this story, I said, "BS" but once I understood that the kill was an accident, and that Bob wasn't actually trying to hit the elk, I believed it more easily.

It was a somewhat irresponsible thing to do, but I dont' believe that Bob would have taken the shot if he'd known that he might hit the elk. He was lucky that he didn't wind up stalking it all day.

If you enjoyed reading about "Confirmed 1800 yard kill on elk" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Quartus
March 12, 2003, 01:02 PM
He was lucky he didn't kill some other hunter! :fire:


Okay, class, which basic safety rule did this idiot violate?



:fire:

Steve Smith
March 12, 2003, 01:02 PM
You are exactly right, and THAT'S why I got mad.

Kingcreek
March 12, 2003, 01:27 PM
Ok, you guys will get a kick out of this,
Somebody needs to get kicked, but it aint us.
shooting at or even near a target a mile away?!?
irresponsible and foolish

Steve Smith
March 12, 2003, 01:33 PM
Maybe I should explain what I meant? I knew it would be a grenade thread when I posted it...but a decent topic nevertheless. They can't all smell like roses.

Art Eatman
March 12, 2003, 03:05 PM
If the other hunters' direction was lateral and 200 yards, there was no hazard to them. Wind or no wind. Since they apparently agreed to some possibly hazardous deal, if something went wrong, well, tough stuff. I'd imagine there were trees or rocks between them and the line of fire, though.

It's quite possible that a ricochet could have gone beyond the elk and maybeso found another guy who was totally unknown to any of the "players". To me, that's the dumbest part of the deal: The assumption that nobody is within another mile of them. That's why I never shoot unless I'm positive about where a missed shot's bullet would wind up.

As far as overall sportsmanship, how is putting a bullet on the ground to spook the elk any different from my throwing rocks down into a canyon to try and spook out a mule deer?

Right, wrong or indifferent, ya gotta give the shooter credit for having a pretty good handle on holdover for long ranges. :)

Question: Whose tag got used?

Art

Steve Smith
March 12, 2003, 03:12 PM
lol, Art...the shooter's, of course! ;)

I dont' see a difference as far as the "spooking" part, but the possibility of wounding game was the "unsportsmanlike" part, in my eyes. Of course, this guy surely didn't think he had a chance of even touching the elk, so that's why it was judged ok.

Quartus
March 12, 2003, 03:21 PM
Art, you need to go back and read the post. He fired into the air. An unaimed shot. NOT firing into the ground, firing at a high angle into the air.

As for the other shooters agreeing to this hazardous action - fine. What about other hunters who might have been in the area? At that range, he had no way of knowing where that bullet was going and who might be there to catch it.


Ever had a round whiz by your ear when you were hunting? It's guaranteed to get your attention, if you are breathing.

Kingcreek
March 12, 2003, 03:51 PM
" Of course, this guy surely didn't think he had a chance of even touching the elk, so that's why it was judged ok."

IOW, he can't even guarantee a clean miss at 1 mile. For God's sake, somebody take his rifle away.
As for just spooking game, I would rather have Art bounce a rock off my head than some nitwit put a bullet in it. I also wouldn't feel obligated to track a rock-bruised muley.
I'll only give the guy credit for being dang lucky and nothing more.

JohnDog
March 12, 2003, 05:39 PM
hopefully get the elk to stand up and move

Gee - and calling somebody a mile away on the radio to launch bullets in it's direction is the best plan they could come up with at the time?!?! How about blowing a cow call! Or figuring which direction it might run if spooked, and stalking over to get a line on a broadside shot when it takes off. Or just waiting till it gets up to move to it's evening feeding area.

I guess it takes all kinds?

As for holdover, he must have a rambo scope to go with his rambo rifle. And dont even think about what the wind would do to his bullet in a 1800 yard trajectory.

JohnDog

PS - My foot slipped and caused them rocks to roll into that draw - I didn't think there'd be any deer down there:p

M67
March 12, 2003, 06:32 PM
My late grandfather had a story from just after WWII. A group of neighbours were out plinking when a guy whith a 1911 said: "Wanna see how you shoot a horse?" Then he aimed way, way, way high over another neighbour's horse (not Grandpa's) that was grazing more than 300 meters away. He did of course intend to shoot into the trees behind the horse as a stupid prank. Bang, long pause, thud. The horse dropped without even twitching, perfect head shot.

Sometimes people do incredibly stupid things. Even people who should know better.

BTW, this episode may be one of the reasons why Gramps always described the trajectory of the .45 acp as comparable to "a pig jumping a fence". :)

WYO
March 12, 2003, 07:15 PM
Now that sounds like a lot of fun. It must be great having a radio so you can call in a diversionary "mortar" shot from a mile away. It sure beats waiting for the elk to stand up by its own choice. But then old Murphy showed up and the elk got hit by a round that couldn't have had an ethical amount of energy left.

Memo to self: stay away from open areas and hunters talking on radios.

dongun
March 12, 2003, 07:49 PM
Steve,

What was that about a "grenade" thread?

Art Eatman
March 12, 2003, 08:14 PM
Kingcreek, I rather doubt anybody would actually expect a hit. I probably spend more time looking at stuff at one to three miles than most folks on this Board. From my house to the southeast corner of my pasture is over a mile, and anything there is readily visible with binoculars.

I could guesstimate holdover to get a bullet into the immediate vicinity--25 to 50 yards over or under, maybe--but I'd surely never expect to hit. If I wuz gonna try that sort of "spook shot", it's easy enough to line the vertical crosshair dead on and let the wind carry the bullet off to the side...

Lots of folks, nowadays, carry these little FM radios. Mostly in case somebody gets hurt or confused as to where they are. Heck, some even carry their cell phones! To actually use the radios to coordinate hunting, however, is generally illegal, as well as unethical...

So, yeah, there's a lot of this deal of which I disapprove, but since nothing bad happened I find it sorta funny. I'd have loved to have seen the expression on the shooter's face!

:), Art

cratz2
March 12, 2003, 10:50 PM
Well, ethics aside, this thread is proof positive that the 30-378 is overkill... A clean kill at 1,800 yards with, regardless of organs hit, impossible shot placement and the elk is still dead.

Overkill, I tell ya!

Sven
March 12, 2003, 11:25 PM
He broke one of the rules.

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/safetyrules.jpg

Cal4D4
March 12, 2003, 11:47 PM
Hunting with forward observers? Anyone ever see the "hunting" scene in the movie "Magic Christian" with Ringo Starr and Peter Sellers ('70's vintage?)? Clean kill, my lad, clean kill.

Dr.Who
March 13, 2003, 01:23 AM
Gee, maybe that is why were not to shoot in the air on the fourth...

I though it was alright, Sadam Husain does it all the time... It seems every piece of news footage of him in uniform, has him with a gun shoot'n in the air....

Dumb, Dumb, and Dumber.....

Know your target...:banghead: :cuss:

I can't enjoy this....

Steve Smith
March 13, 2003, 11:25 AM
dongun...Pull the pin, toss in the thread, walk away and watch it explode.

Smoke
March 13, 2003, 12:30 PM
Who said the guy didn't know what was beyond his target?

Guy sights up a long distance shot becuse he knows no one is around for several miles. Bullet falls within the limit he is aware of and accidentally hits the elk.

Biggest flaw I see is his round was within 200 yards of the other people.

Quartus
March 13, 2003, 12:44 PM
becuse he knows no one is around for several miles


And just how does he know that? Satellite reconnaissance? SR-71 maybe? Or was it an Apache chopper with thermal imaging capability flying cover for him?

Or is he just psychic?


:barf:

Smoke
March 13, 2003, 01:03 PM
And just how does he know that? Satellite reconnaissance? SR-71 maybe? Or was it an Apache chopper with thermal imaging capability flying cover for him?

Ever hear of private property?

muleshoe
March 13, 2003, 01:03 PM
Ummm...not sure about this, but isn't using a two-way radio in the pursuit of game critters sorta illegal?

Oh, and what's wrong with chunkin' rocks down into bushy draws to booger deer out?

Keith
March 13, 2003, 02:45 PM
Using a radio is flatly illegal in my state. Shooting at an animal that far away may not be illegal, but it's certainly unethical. He was far more likely to injure the animal and drive it off to die later.

What state was this in?

Keith

Quartus
March 13, 2003, 03:34 PM
ever hear of private property?


Not in that post, I didn't.


:rolleyes:

Smoke
March 13, 2003, 05:53 PM
Not in that post, I didn't

It wasn't specified. You assumed it was public land.

You know what happens when you assume?;)

Quartus
March 13, 2003, 06:01 PM
Since the majority of hunting takes place on public land, you need some evidence of [list=a]
it being private land AND
a way to guarantee that nobody could have wandered onto that private land
[/list=a]

before you are justified in excusing this stupidity on the basis of it having been done on private land.

Keith
March 13, 2003, 07:02 PM
I'll "assume" this hunt took place in Colorado. I just pulled up the game regulations at http://wildlife.state.co.us/regulations/ch00.pdf

Using mechanical aids of any type other than the ones specifically detailed therein are prohibited. Your pals were poaching when they used radios to coordinate long range sniping at elk.

I'm sure tactics are illegal in every state.

Keith

Larry Ashcraft
March 13, 2003, 07:41 PM
Really? We've used 2 way radios for years, not to coordinate the hunt but to make sure everyone was all right. We started using them in 1965 after my grandad almost had a heart attack (see my thread "grandad's elk, 1964").

Dan Morris
March 14, 2003, 08:24 AM
I'd kinda like to know the GMU thay use....so I can say AWAY from them.......you spend years teaching safety and ethics...sheesh..........
Dan

Art Eatman
March 14, 2003, 10:25 AM
Sounds like some folks are getting into booger-huntin' on insufficient info. For all any of us know, the guy had quite adequate knowledge about the safety of the impact area. Into a mountainside, for instance, or into a clearing surrounded by tall trees...

Sure, coordinating a hunt by use of radiddios is illegal as well as immoral. This sounds like a spur-of-the-moment deal, rather than an ogoing hunting method. I'm certainly glad that none of us have EVER had some less-than-wise bright idea. NONE of US!

Disapprove? Sure. But let's not go bonkers over it.

Art

nygunguy
March 14, 2003, 11:40 PM
Here in NY it absolutely illegal to use a radio in pursuit of game.

On the other hand us old guys use radios to keep track of each other. Check in every hour on the hour unless you hear a bang. In archery someone always leaves a radio on.

12-34hom
March 15, 2003, 11:23 AM
Just another group of "ethical" hunters, using radios, lobbing bullets from 1000 yard + ranges.

What's next ?? maybe satalite photos.....

12-34hom.

jmbg29
March 15, 2003, 01:14 PM
Did the 9 witnesses mention how many animals they have maimed and left to rot over the years?:fire: :fire: :fire:

kidcoltoutlaw
March 15, 2003, 01:26 PM
i can tell you one thing the range finder was used before the shot .i bet it was a laser russian.

ragsi
September 22, 2005, 01:14 AM
Do you think the elk had already been shot? The elk was laying down already and the shooter was a mile away. What kind of responsible hunter would shoot for such a purpose so far away?

Art Eatman
September 22, 2005, 10:37 AM
"What kind of responsible hunter would shoot for such a purpose so far away?"

Well, the purpose was to scare the elk into movement, not to hit the elk. Folks seem to have lost the point of the original post, that the shooter had no expectation of hitting anything other than a rock in the general vicinity.

Again, it was a spur-of-the-moment notion, not a common method for the group...

Art

Double Naught Spy
September 22, 2005, 03:00 PM
Contrary to the original post, this story is not a "confirmed" story about an 1800 yard elk kill. It is a story where the poster knew a bunch of folks who claimed this happened. There is no confirnmation as all the confirming folks are of the same group. By the same sort of reasoning, I know a group of people who saw Bigfoot and so Bigfoot is now confirmed.

I am not sure what is so amazing about the story. Since the hunter was not trying to shoot the elk, all we are talking about now is the fact that a projectile loaded the way his was and fired from his type of rifle can retain enough power to penetrate sufficiently to kill an elk.

I am apalled that the guy managed to kill an animal that he was intentionally trying NOT to hit. That shows an incredible amount of recklessness on his part. The notion of shooting toward the animal from a distance away greater than the animal would even hear the shot is stupid. I realize the guys 200 yards away did not have a clear shot at the animal, but they did have a clear shot at a spot they knew they could hit that was close to the animal and they likely had guns sighted in to make a 200 yard shot accurately.

~z
September 22, 2005, 05:19 PM
The notion of shooting toward the animal from a distance away greater than the animal would even hear the shot is stupid.

Now that offends me. Does shooting prairie dogs at a few hundred yds with the wind in your face so they dont hear the report count as "stupid" or unethical?

Sam
September 22, 2005, 08:49 PM
I have used reconnasance by fire driving down a nasty jungle road with an M60 but never when elk hunting.

Really bad form no matter the legality or ethics. Bad Form

Sam

Cosmoline
September 22, 2005, 09:00 PM
What is this, "fire for effect" hunting?!

:eek:

MrFreeze
September 22, 2005, 09:28 PM
Talk about grave robbing...this thread was more than 2 years old! This was more like UXO than a grenade!

~z
September 23, 2005, 10:41 AM
wow, your right, but Its new to me.
~z

killzone
September 24, 2005, 03:02 AM
Memo to self: stay away from open areas and hunters talking on radios

I Think Its not the first time this is happening, Get close to your game, spook it , so what , You are hunting anyway. You'll get your elk somehow anyway. How fun of a hunt is it if you aren't sophisticated enough to get close to your game and take appropriate risks. How good of a hunter are you if you cant even remember the basics of the Hunt!
I myself like to take long shots. But that is done in a different way with a lot more work and patience involved. :banghead:

I donít mean to upset anyone so excuse me , I donít even believe this has even ever happened.

H&Hhunter
September 24, 2005, 07:33 PM
Sounds like a bunch of over anxious, armature, city boy idiots in the mountains. I see it every year.

Some tell tale signs:

They always hunt in huge groups like a bunch of nervous giggling teenage girls going to a public restroom. This herd mentality keeps them boys from getting sceerd way up in them big ole mountains.

They tend to "trash hunt" you know, doing things like using long range non direct fire to spook up game. And using radios to call in marker rounds.

They'll often be carrying them big ole super magniums with some o them big ole super magnium scopes on them. Most likely one of them there fine Weatherby rifles.

Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic but this type of crap turns my stomach.

It's not the way I operate and I find it to be a disgusting display which gives us hunters a bad name.

Three years ago I witnessed a troop of these scum bags open up on a herd of elk from a paved road across a clearing. There were 8 guys all running around and firing into the herd. After 35 or 40 shots a gorgeous 6X7 bull fell and started rolling down the ridge.

This was about the time I came around the corner. The shooters were all giving high fives and Yee hahing.

I stopped and glassed the hill side the bull lay dead in the open and there were at least two more wounded elk in the trees standing hunched up in the classic been gut shot posture.

I pulled out my range finder and ranged the dead bull at 667 yards. About this time one of the intrepid shooters comes over to my truck and inquires as to how far "his" bull is. I said "What's your best guess" he replied "About 300".

When I told him the true distance his reply was "GOD BLESS THE .300 MAG!"

I asked him what he intended to do about the two wounded ones standing in the tree line to which he hollered "WHICH ONES OF YOU GUYS GOT TAGS!" to his anxiously awaiting brethren just down the road.

He then looked back across the valley which he was now needing to cross to get the elk out which was a 3-400 yard wide marsh which the beavers had dammed up, the water was waist high in most places and it was snowing heavily a wet blowing snow. As the realization of the task ahead started to dawn on him he asked "think you can get one of those horses over there and drag that bull out?"

I just spat into the road, bid the shooter a good day and drove off.

I am sick and tired of this CRAP as I see way to much of it on public ground.

If you want to hunt please do so. If you want to run around like a bunch of juvenile delinquents with over powered B.B. guns PLEASE stay home and shoot beer cans in your back yard!

All these gentlemen in the original post needed to do was sit and wait and enjoy this fine beast until he eventually stood and offered a shot. That would have been a glorious and wonderful outdoor experience to treasure for years to come. It would have provided these ďhuntersĒ with a chance to experience elk hunting in itís most pure and beautiful form. Allowing them observe this bull in all his glory for possibly hours and hours. I canít think of a greater privilege. Instead they acted like a bunch of rabid hyenas at a water hole with nothing but a kill in mind.
:mad:

04SilverSCFX4
September 25, 2005, 11:27 PM
Bob aimed very high and squeezed the trigger. Moments later, the guys on the ridge radioed "you killed it. "

Think this would be considered plunging fire?

ragsi
October 2, 2005, 03:58 PM
I'm going on my first cow elk hunt in a couple of weeks. Through the years, I heard some frightening stories from my dad, husband, and his friends. But this story really concerns me. When hunting with my dad, we'd always wear a red shirt or hat (usually it was me that he had dressed in some kind of red) so another hunter wouldn't think of us as prey. But with hunters such as the guys in the story and some of the posts, sounds like one can't be safe if other hunters don't use common sense and apply what was learned in a hunter's safety course. I hope I get the kill opening morning, and then be "out of the woods".

H&Hhunter
October 2, 2005, 04:31 PM
Ragsi,

Good luck on your hunt and just a suggestion if I may. Skip the red wear hunters orange it's way more visible.

Greg

ragsi
October 2, 2005, 04:40 PM
Thank you for responding H&H....I was told the elk couldn't distinquish between colors, but they spotted solid colors easily. The people at the Sporting Goods store sell orange vests and hats like what the roadmen wear. So if that is true, why isn't red incorporated in camoflage wear? Thnx...I'd ask my husband, but he is out of town elk scouting....ragsi

H&Hhunter
October 2, 2005, 05:14 PM
Ragsi,

I am not speaking of the elk being able to see you I am refering to other hunters being able to see you. Orange is far more visible to other hunters than is red. :)

As far as what elk can see and what they can't I haven't figured that one out yet for sure, but I do know this. Hunt with the wind in your face the sun at your back and utilize shadows and natural cover and it doesn't really matter what you're wearing. That's always been my plan anyway.

And no matter what,enjoy the experience as a whole, don't get to wraped up in making a kill and you'll have a great time!

ragsi
October 3, 2005, 12:54 AM
Thnx H&H....I knew what you meant about the hunters being able to see orange better.....I just was thinking aloud about a comment made to me and wondering why it wasn't used in the clothing for the protection of a hunter if animals couldn't distinquish it.......just me thinking. I will wear an orange kerchief, though.....ragsi

spacemanspiff
October 3, 2005, 01:40 PM
surprised no ones mentioned the impatience-ness of the hunters who couldnt wait for the elk to get up again.

Mannlicher
October 5, 2005, 08:52 PM
all I can say is 'even a blind squirrel will find a nut now and then'

GunGoBoom
October 6, 2005, 04:04 PM
ragsi, camo questions...

Why isn't all camo made with orange/camo rather than brown/black/camo? Answer - because turkeys, ducks, and other birds CAN see color very well.

Why doesn't SOME camo come in orange with camo patterns? It does, and this is what I prefer during gun & muzzleloader season. While it's true what H&H said, that deer & elk don't really see colors - they only see movement; still, they COULD potentially spot a large solid-pattern blaze orange vest, if you're not in the shadows, so I give myself every advantage by wearing the orange vest & hat with some black camo patterning in it. Other hunters can still easily see, but hooved animals cannot, unless you move. If you move while the game is looking, it doesn't matter what you wear.

But the non-colored camo is for birdies, who see both movement AND color very well.

H&Hhunter
October 6, 2005, 06:05 PM
surprised no ones mentioned the impatience-ness of the hunters who couldnt wait for the elk to get up again.

Spaceman..

Here is a quote from my original reply.

All these gentlemen in the original post needed to do was sit and wait and enjoy this fine beast until he eventually stood and offered a shot. That would have been a glorious and wonderful outdoor experience to treasure for years to come.

My thoughts exactley Sapceman. Just a pure case of inexperience and impatience with a healthy dose of buck fever.

Greg

ragsi
October 12, 2005, 02:36 AM
I leave for my cow elk hunt tomorrow.......opening day is Friday. My husband and I scouted last weekend and saw a nice herd and a few bulls with cows at different locations.

Thank you for the info on the coloring with camo....it's just after reading the post about the hunter that fired a mile away to spook the elk.... actually spooked me....ragsi

capnrik
October 16, 2005, 12:25 PM
I must say that I find it astonishing to discover that using radios in hunting is illegal. I certainly hope that whoever wrote that law never goes fishing with us in the Gulf of Mexico...:confused:

Art Eatman
October 16, 2005, 02:10 PM
caapnrik, having radios for keeping track of hunting buddies is one thing. That's okay. It's the using to drive game that's frowned upon. "Unfair advantage"...

Art

If you enjoyed reading about "Confirmed 1800 yard kill on elk" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!