Whats your BS Meter say to this??


PDA






itgoesboom
March 27, 2005, 06:45 PM
Was reading a thread over on TFL, and I came across this little response to a thread about Romanian SVD "almost clones".


The Romanians are a cheap imitation to the Draganov. They are not as accurate nor as reliable as the Authentic Drag's. With my Romanian, I would only pull around 3" groups at 600 meters, and I am a government trained former sharpshooter so my shooting error is null or none. With my Draganov Tiger, I am shooting around 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at roughly 800 meters. That is about all that can be expected from a Soviet Block rifle.


Now, I am no rifle expert, but I have been around the block a few times, and shot at various ranges. And I have never heard of someone being able to get a 1 1/2-2" group at 800 yards with pretty much anything, including a draganuv.

So what say you? BS or not?

I.G.B.

If you enjoyed reading about "Whats your BS Meter say to this??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
bobs1066
March 27, 2005, 06:56 PM
IMHO, he's full of wild blueberry muffins. I know of nothing that will shoot 2 inch groups at 800 meters. Could be he's using devaluded meters that are only 6 inches long.. ;)

Nathanael_Greene
March 27, 2005, 06:58 PM
I don't believe it.

800 meters is more than half a mile.

"...my shooting error is null or none"--??

I dare say you could put any rifle in a rock-solid rest and it wouldn't hit within 2" of the same spot (any spot, not just a bullseye) at 800 yards.

HighVelocity
March 27, 2005, 06:59 PM
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/2891.jpg

AK-74me
March 27, 2005, 07:08 PM
But he is govt' trained LMFAO, he then goes on to say he'll put up $5k against anyone in a shoot off. I got a nice laugh too.

Bear Gulch
March 27, 2005, 07:14 PM
He's smacking on the romainan for being sub MOA! If he can show me this feat, I will happily buy his ammo at Camp Perry!

Marko Kloos
March 27, 2005, 07:16 PM
I am a government trained former sharpshooter so my shooting error is null or none.

Yeah, my BS meter pegged at that sentence.

Even the vaunted PSG-1, probably among the most accurate semi-auto rifles in the world, is a 1 MOA rifle, maybe 3/4 MOA on a good day with a great trigger nut and match ammo. That's eight inches at 800 yards, maybe six. If this guy has a Dragunov that routinely shoots a group a third of that size, he's Supergrunt, and his rifle is the most accurate autochucker ever built.

Powderman
March 27, 2005, 07:20 PM
No doubt trained well as an Army Ranger Seal, headquartered at the Air Force Academy. :evil:

ceetee
March 27, 2005, 07:21 PM
HighVelocity:

I think you need to have your meter checked...

ksnecktieman
March 27, 2005, 07:29 PM
If you change the 800 meters to 80 meters that post is well within reason. I am having difficulty typing this with my feet up on the desk :what:

smokemaker
March 27, 2005, 07:35 PM
Somebody might shoot two inch groups at 800 meters with a two inch bored field piece... and ONE shot. Put on yer boots, boys, it's getting deep!

Bear Gulch
March 27, 2005, 07:36 PM
Please let me correct my math. 3 inch groups at 600 yards would be 1/2 MOA. I think the makers of the Romanian Drags should hire Sir Studly for their PR dept as he is proving that they are among the best rifles ever built. :neener:

Wayne D
March 27, 2005, 07:43 PM
Which video game has Draganovs?

jobu07
March 27, 2005, 07:48 PM
The romanian "drag clone" is a fine rifle capable of relativly good accuracy, but this man is really full of it. I'd like to see him in action!

jaysouth
March 27, 2005, 07:50 PM
Depends......


Was he using an armored wheelbarrow as a shooting platform?

He might have been a homemade "can" as a silencer/sound suppressor. Sometimes this will improve accuracy as well.

I will buy his gas and ammo if he will come to the local club and do a demo for us.

I would not question his "government trained" credentials. The women's auxilary of the ground observer corps is supposed to have the best sniper training in the world. ditto for the U.S. dept of Agriculture.

RyanM
March 27, 2005, 08:14 PM
2" at 800 m... that's ~875 yards. 31496.063 inches, 2 inches. That calculates to 0.00363828 degree; 1 MOA = .016666(repeating) degree. 0.2183 MOA. 1.5" at same is .027287 degree, or 0.1637 MOA.

Though that's using the "real" measurement of 1/60th of a degree for the MOA, which is actually 1" at 95.493 yards, or 1.0472" at 100 yards. 1" at 100 yards is really 0.0159155 degree, or about 57.3 seconds of angle. (isn't math fun?!?!?!?)

I dunno, 2" at the 800 meter line might be possible for that guy... if he's shooting from the 799 meter line!

Mulliga
March 27, 2005, 08:27 PM
If that individual can shoot that well, he should have multiple Camp Perry titles, and perhaps a few Olympic medals.

Consistent 2" groups at 800 yards is simply not possible, at least with a shoulder fired, conventionally operating rifle.

I'm reminded of the thread about the cop who can draw from a holster, fire ten shots, and get a 3" group at 25 yards in less than 3 seconds.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=105273&highlight=good

Larry Ashcraft
March 27, 2005, 08:32 PM
I am shooting around 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at roughly 800 meters.
Where is Bogie? He could make some serious money off this guy.

dolanp
March 27, 2005, 08:33 PM
He just forgot to tell you that he was shooting at the world's most powerful magnet.

Owen
March 27, 2005, 08:36 PM
Maybe he meant he could shoot 2" groups at 800 hours? Its usually a little windy in the morning....

armoredman
March 27, 2005, 08:37 PM
I thought Gunkid didn't like Russian guns....

SouthpawShootr
March 27, 2005, 08:41 PM
Anybody calling his bs over at TFL? I may just have to find that thread. Might be entertaining reading.

AK-74me
March 27, 2005, 08:45 PM
Yeah they are but mods. trying to calm it down. It's in the rifle forum if you want to take a look see.

Standing Wolf
March 27, 2005, 08:47 PM
Could be he's using devaluded meters that are only 6 inches long.

Maybe those are sovmeters.

Mute
March 27, 2005, 08:58 PM
Of course he's for real. Hell, I can hold 1" at 1200 yards. Of course, that's only because the government trained me to be a death machine. I mean it's not me. It's the training. Fear is not an option. :rolleyes:

azrael
March 27, 2005, 09:04 PM
<Dale Gribble voice on>
I can help it...Its the training...I am the most efficient killing machine the world has ever known!

<Dale Gribble voice off>


Dude is seriously full of it...My BS meter is going into uncharted territory :evil:

Maddock
March 27, 2005, 09:13 PM
Armoredman - I thought Gunkid didn't like Russian guns....
You owe me a cup of coffee and a keyboard :D

bogie
March 27, 2005, 10:22 PM
Anyone can get lucky. Sometimes the fliers go in the group.

If he can shoot five of those groups back to back on the same day... But that ain't all that likely happen.

Bear Gulch
March 27, 2005, 10:28 PM
RyanM,

I was trying to give hime somewhat of a break.

JohnKSa
March 27, 2005, 10:35 PM
Less than a quarter MOA at "roughly 800 meters" takes way more than luck.

How many people do you know who can shoot better than 0.25" groups at 100 yards? Moving the target nearly 9 times further away sure doesn't make it any easier.

Jim K
March 27, 2005, 10:41 PM
For no bull information on long range rifle shooting, check out this site:

http://www.pa1000yard.com/records.html

Remember that these guys are shooting hand made "rail guns" with the finest barrels and actions, as well as the best ammo in the world.

Jim

Ky Larry
March 27, 2005, 10:42 PM
He can only do this while laying on top of his partner with extra armor plates in his backpack for added stability. His aim might be be bothered while taking multiple hits and cause his groups to open up slightly. :p

Azrael256
March 27, 2005, 10:44 PM
No doubt trained well as an Army Ranger Seal, headquartered at the Air Force Academy. That's Army Ranger SEEL. Duh! I bet he can even do this whilst standing on a vertical cliff in his ninja boots.

hrb02
March 27, 2005, 10:45 PM
My guess is that he is the only one in the room professional enough to hold those kind of groups. :D

bogie
March 27, 2005, 11:16 PM
Do any of y'all think I could get him to come play at the "point blank" range of 200 yards? I'll even give him the advantage - I won't bring a tactical rifle, just a little ol' 10.5 pound single shot bolt action...

Wonder if he's got any money...

jefnvk
March 27, 2005, 11:32 PM
He's got a standing offer of a $5k bet to anyone that wants to take him on

itgoesboom
March 27, 2005, 11:36 PM
Ok, I just wanted to make sure my BS meter wasn't broken.

Anybody calling his bs over at TFL?

I did, I told him that there were plenty of member over there that live in Kentucky, and I am sure they would love a demonstration. :rolleyes: Until that point, I told him, I would consider him a chairborn ranger.

The mods deleted my post, which is reasonable, since it was offtopic, but before they could, he replied about the $5,000 challenge.

Oddly enough, I remember someone else making similar claims, and the exact same challenge, in fact almost the exact wording. I just wish I could remember who.

I.G.B.

Texian Pistolero
March 27, 2005, 11:36 PM
Obviously,

a lying turd.

Next question?

Perhaps a true mall ninja might obtain this degree of excellence,

but THIS WANNABE turd?

FUGETTAAABOUTTTA IT!!!!!!!!!

larryw
March 27, 2005, 11:48 PM
Now wait a minute, I'm representing that the cop who can draw from a holster, fire ten shots, and get a 3" group at 25 yards in less than 3 seconds for national sponsorships worth many millions of dollars per year. Latham and Koenig are losing sponsorships to this LEO.

I'd like to add this rifle expert to my portfolio, imagine the money, fame, acclaim and goodwill we can earn!

Please have him call me.

M2 Carbine
March 27, 2005, 11:49 PM
He's an idiot to think anyone would believe such crap :rolleyes: .

jefnvk
March 27, 2005, 11:50 PM
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165988

That is the thread, the guy is LuckyInKentucky

orangeninja
March 28, 2005, 12:24 AM
Oh my...I almost laughed out loud in a crude, snorting, guffaw type manner. I wonder if he ever starts his stories with...


"So there I was, just me and my rifle, and my covert sniper I.D. card". :evil:

Strings
March 28, 2005, 12:33 AM
whoa... RICH picked up the gauntlet! Man, to be a fly on the wall there...

bogie
March 28, 2005, 12:47 AM
Heh, heh, heh...

Last time I had a live one, it was a superduperubertactical reel live agent (actually he worked for the same outfit as that fellow who is the only one professional enough... but I digress...), and he had a suped up M-14 variant tactical rifle.

After the second shot, when I saw paper on his target, I'd already spent the $100...

orangeninja
March 28, 2005, 12:52 AM
Man....I hope this guy accepts.

Marko Kloos
March 28, 2005, 12:52 AM
And the moral of the story...never let your mouth write checks that your hind end can't cash.

It's pretty dumb to play SEEL on a board lousy with people who have BTDT.

Ridge
March 28, 2005, 01:16 AM
Damn,if he lives in Kentucky then I'm gonna' be 5,000 bucks richer, (WooHoo!!!!) wish me luck boys&girls,uncle ridge is gonna' take some pride and shut that ole' boy up.

homeka45
March 28, 2005, 01:37 AM
Wow, that is one funny thread. Not much of a response yet from LiK, think his next move is offended righteousness and stomping off.

JohnKSa
March 28, 2005, 01:40 AM
Found another thread and posted a link to it on the first thread.

In that thread he's asking for 150gr bullet loads for long range shooting with his 45/70.

Claims that he's getting submoa groups with a 170gr bullet 45/70 handload in his Marlin 1895 at 350 yards.

Mal H
March 28, 2005, 01:44 AM
You have got to be kidding!!

If anything, that claim is even more ludicrous than the 800 meter claim.

GRB
March 28, 2005, 02:02 AM
GunkidDid someone have to mention him here. Egads I shudder to think he may start posting stuff like this on this board.

El Rojo
March 28, 2005, 02:04 AM
Funny as heck. Great comic relief.

cracked butt
March 28, 2005, 02:20 AM
I can't help giggling to myself while reading his posts.
Here's another doozy.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1514184#post1514184

Remember, if you criticize his shooting skills, its only because of your envy of him :D

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 28, 2005, 02:21 AM
Dang, I'd take some of that.

WA, can I rent your '41 for a day or so? It'd be bad form to take his money with an open-sighted 1899 Swede, although I have done pretty good shooting with it at that particular range.

Rich is gonna be having fun with this one...and I'd pay an admission fee just to watch Bogie uncase his Stolle.

Boorow, you want to carpool up to KY?

Regards,
Rabbit.

itgoesboom
March 28, 2005, 02:35 AM
Okay everyone, here is the deal.

Notice that all of his claims are nowhere near being realistic. I mean for him to believe that any of us would believe him, he would have to have his head so far into space.

My current theory is that he knows his claims are unrealistic, and he is just doing the next version of what Gecko45 did at GlockTalk with the whole mall ninja thing.

I could be wrong, and maybe he is just that good.......


J/K :neener:

I.G.B.

El Rojo
March 28, 2005, 02:37 AM
LOL!!!I shoot nothing but Remington Game Loads out of my 10/22. I found these little rascals to be some of the most accurate and cheapest ammo to shoot. I usually pull around 1" groups at 200yds with them, and that's pretty darn good for a stock 10/22. Not to mention the fact that they are excellent 'head shot' ammo for squirrels. The powder is consistent in all of the rounds, and I find that they are most accurate. I have landed one right on top of the other firing into an old 6 X 6 treated post at 75 yds. The truth is that different rifles like different ammo, so your 10/22 might like the high velocity ammo better.Ok, so who is the smart guy who opened another account and is trying to win the troll of the year award? I wish I had thought of it first. When are you going to come out of the closet?

Ridge
March 28, 2005, 02:49 AM
I would have a field day outshooting this this j**koff at 50 yards open sighted,Just give me two aces (The spade being mine) out of a bee deck,and five rounds,I'd love to take his money with my model 60 (Which can shoot out to 18 bazillion yards with the ladder sights that are installed at the factory) I can pick a flea off of a dogs back with it at 1200 yards no problem. (I've gotta' win best B.s. lines with this one)

medmo
March 28, 2005, 02:55 AM
"I would only pull around 3" groups at 600 meters, and I am a government trained former sharpshooter so my shooting error is null or none."

I am also a formally trained government "sharp shooter" but even though it hurts my ego I can't match this guy. Unfortunately, I was only trained by the United States Government and not the InterGalactic Space Cadet Academy. I have held groups of less than 2" at 300 yards. Guess I can't brag about that anymore....

My meter is so buried that I can't see the needle anymore.....

winstonsmith
March 28, 2005, 02:58 AM
Aww, crap, where's my muckin' boots?

Strings
March 28, 2005, 03:18 AM
I'm thinkin' maybe those boots of escaping would be a good idea right now. Or is LiK wearin' 'em?

saltydog
March 28, 2005, 08:40 AM
BS. :rolleyes:

Tomac
March 28, 2005, 09:44 AM
A Finnish military sniper said both the 7.62x54 SVD & PSL are capable of equal accuracy. The rifles are completely different designs with only a cosmetic similarity. However, lack of good lightweight (appx 148gr) match ammo holds them back in the accuracy dept. I've owned the PSL and do own a few NDM-86 .308 Dragunovs. With 168gr match ammo the NDM-86 is capable of astonishing accuracy. I'm not the greatest shot but my best 4-shot ctc group at 100yds is .44", my best 3-shot group ctc at 100yds is .24" and my best 3-shot ctc group at 500m is 4.5". David Fortier has reported 3-shot groups of 3" at 600yds. The .308 NDM-86 is surprisingly accurate but this guy's claims are out of the credibility ballpark!
Tomac
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/972004-04-16_001s.jpg
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/97NDM-86_RangeReport2_009-med.JPG

HankB
March 28, 2005, 09:56 AM
He might be getting sub-2" groups at 800 yards.

You accomplish this by firing 80 rounds at the target, drawing a circle around the closest three, and discounting the other 77 holes as "fliers." :neener:

Seriously, this nonsense reminds me of a testimonial a custom rifle company actually put in their literature about 5 or 6 years ago. Seems one of their clients had them accurize his .308 target rifle, after which he was shooting five shot, one-hole groups at 600 yards. Amazingly, he was doing this with iron sights, too . . . works out to better than 0.2 MOA.

Must be the result of his modern ninja training.

bogie
March 28, 2005, 10:00 AM
In about a month and a half, I'm going to the Supershoot.

I sincerely wish that a few of the folks who have rifles which will shoot .25 MOA All Day Long will show up.

Cuz if you can do that for 20 targets over four days, you just may win.

bogie
March 28, 2005, 10:03 AM
Tomac, looks like you've got that rifle tuned pretty good.

What I'd do next is start paying more attention to the wind. You'll be surprised what it can do... Get some surveyor tape, whatever, and put it out on some sticks, and only shoot when it's in the same condition.

Tomac
March 28, 2005, 10:09 AM
Tomac, looks like you've got that rifle tuned pretty good.

What I'd do next is start paying more attention to the wind. You'll be surprised what it can do... Get some surveyor tape, whatever, and put it out on some sticks, and only shoot when it's in the same condition.

Thx, but no tuning needed except having the trigger smoothed a bit. I'm not a serious LRTR shooter, I shoot out of interest in military-style rifles & curiosity. You're absolutely right about the wind, when it's calm I can bang the 750m gong all day if I do my part but dealing with the wind is how you separate the men from the boys!
Tomac

hksw
March 28, 2005, 11:47 AM
Hmm. I don't know. His claims are so off the wall that they would have to be in the Mall Ninja catagory, i.e., someone is yanking.

Bear Gulch
March 28, 2005, 01:13 PM
Paging Dr. Haldol, Paging Dr. Haldol, It is medication time for Luckyboy!

Browns Fan
March 28, 2005, 01:18 PM
Hey now, common' guys! Wouldnt you sleep better at night if he worked at YOUR mall? No doubt, this guy is a legend in his own mind. :D

Nathanael_Greene
March 28, 2005, 02:09 PM
While in general I oppose the idea of kicking someone who's not even around to defend himself, this guy is just asking for it.

See for yourself. His posts are accessible here: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=380509

Some highlights:

"I have hunted Elk for the past 10 years in various locations, and have never failed to drop 1 every year on the first shot. The key is violent expansion of the bullet + foot pounds of energy + placement of shot. Hypothetically, you can hit a decent sized bull in the shoulder with a .338 Lapua or 45-70 Gov't and the shock alone will stop his heart."

"I shoot nothing but Remington Game Loads out of my 10/22...I usually pull around 1" groups at 200yds with them..."

"Actually after making the bullets from my bullet caster, they resembled the old rifled bullets used in Civil War era muskets." [Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it was the barrels that were rifled, not the Minie balls themselves? I don't ever remember seeing a "rifled bullet".]

"...[M44's] are good for a quick back-up brush gun when trapsing through the woods late at night." [Why doesn't he take along the Marlin guide gun he writes about elsewhere?]

"...when I first entered the Cowboy Shooting matches, I bought a Model 94 Legacy in 45 Colt...In the first round of a match I shot 3 consecutive rounds, and on the 4th it dry fired. So I chambered another, and another dry fire." [Does anyone define "dry fire" this way?]

"I mostly hang around on computer tech sites, due to my educational background/ training. Although my home page is forcerecon.com, from which I am a member ."

"I will give you a little "Professional" advice on solving your problem. It's a little trick the Gunny used on us when we were firing the Barrett .50 cals in our final evolution of the particular training I was in in the Corps."

foghornl
March 28, 2005, 02:12 PM
My BS meter burst into flames, it was so overloaded.... :D

mephisto
March 28, 2005, 02:17 PM
I can do it. Give me 300 rounds and a clear day.

goalie
March 28, 2005, 02:50 PM
Here's my take on it: that guy read something about what is possible with a sniper-specific .50 and thought he would talk up the Russian rifle as well.

That said, it's not like he is the only one who ever went to sniper school. Was he the only one in his super-secret, uber-tactical ninja class? Didn't he have instructors?

I wonder how many times he's won the President's 100 or the Top Service Rifle at Perry? Anyone capable of that kind of shooting has to at least have a few Wimbelton Cups on the mantle, right?

MrKandiyohi
March 28, 2005, 02:53 PM
I am a government trained former sharpshooter so my shooting error is null or none

I'm a government trained former sharpshooter, too. I wonder if he was in my DNR firearm safety class when I was 13. I think I remember him.

To quote the Mayor: "B as in B, S as in S"

Tom C.
March 28, 2005, 02:57 PM
"...when I first entered the Cowboy Shooting matches, I bought a Model 94 Legacy in 45 Colt...In the first round of a match I shot 3 consecutive rounds, and on the 4th it dry fired. So I chambered another, and another dry fire." [Does anyone define "dry fire" this way?]

This I believe, although I would say it a little differently: "The piece of s**t Winchester 94 is .45 Colt failed to feed several times in my first match."

I have seen that. The Win '94 isn't a good gun for CAS. My Marlins are great. Win '73 and '92 are great. '94 is crap with pistol length cartridges.

The others. Well, I believe a standard 10/22 would probably shoot 1" groups at 20 yds, and the Russian gun would probably shoot 1 1/2 to 2" groups at 100 yds, and with good ammo, perhaps out at 200 yds. 800? I don't think so!

HankB
March 28, 2005, 03:31 PM
[Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it was the barrels that were rifled, not the Minie balls themselves? I don't ever remember seeing a "rifled bullet".] Back in the Civil War, some of the most accurate rifles in the Confederate arsenal were Whitworth target rifles, pressed into service for long-range sniping. The bullets for these were polygonal in cross section to match the polygonal rifling of the Whitworth's barrel. I guess these would qualify as "rifled bullets."

Powderman
March 28, 2005, 03:41 PM
Hank, I remember reading something once about an intriguing bullet, known as the Paradox. I believe it fit the same description as the one you describe--don't remember the caliber.

Magnuumpwr
March 28, 2005, 04:18 PM
I have a State Arms "Rebel" 50 BMG with a 36" walther SS heavy bull barrel. A 6" heavy duty fish gill MB. The twist rate is 1 in 15". I believe the ammo is Talon 647 gr. FMJ's and @ 600 yds. will get 4" to 6" three shot groups at best for me. The usual is roughly 1' with cheap surplus ammo. I may have to buy some competition/handloaded ammo to really test its accuracy. 2" @ 600 yds, I wouldn't be capable of making this group and I'm not sure if my rifle is either. I wish I could find out where that guy is buying his "guided bullets" from!! :D

Rockstar
March 28, 2005, 04:36 PM
Check out this post from Glocktalk, by PaleGreenHorse: "Simple...Sako TRG-S .338 lapua. 1000 meters all day. and 1/2 inch groups all day at 600 meters"

Lonestar.45
March 28, 2005, 05:28 PM
I checked out that thread, and noticed that he's stopped posting now that he's been called out. No surprise. My BS meter was off the charts after reading his multiple posts. I've never ever known guys with real skills to talk or act like that. Only poser mall-ninja types brag the way this guy does.

orangeninja
March 28, 2005, 07:38 PM
"Boorow, you want to carpool up to KY?"


Rabbit, you're on. Hey, but first let's swing by Techbrutes, place, pick up an extra $5,000.00 that we BOTH know is laying around somewhere and I can shoot my newly aquired M48A Yugo Mauser. :p

For those of you who don't know, I sold my shotgun and got a Mauser. I am soooooo good at judging speed, distance, windage, etc. that I can knock an eagle out of the air while he's diving for a salmon up to a 1,000 yards away. You see, I'm allowed to shoot eagles in the U.S. because I am on the anti-sniper, "anti-sniper" squad as long as I keep my Green Beret Undercover Sniper card on me. It doesn't have my picture on it and no I can't show it to you because then I would have to kill you. Seriously. :evil:

Gewehr98
March 29, 2005, 11:24 PM
Well, sorta.

Rich reiterated the standing offer.

I'm cleaning out all my Compact Flash cards, and buying some more VHS tapes for my camcorder. Something says a road trip to Texas is in my near future, assuming our ForceRecon challenger follows through on Rich's offer. I need to stretch my 6.5-06's legs, I'm almost out of Shiner Bock, anyways...

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 29, 2005, 11:35 PM
You can stay at my place if you need a place to bunker, Gewehr. Shiner's on me.

Maybe I should consider checking and relubing my Garand in anticipation of a match, huh? :D

Regards,
Rabbit.

JohnKSa
March 29, 2005, 11:47 PM
Where, exactly is this range Rich is talking about?

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 29, 2005, 11:49 PM
Kingsville, Texas, kinda near Corpus Christi.

http://www.riflesonly.com/

It's pretty much close to nothing, though.

Regards,
Rabbit.

wasrjoe
March 29, 2005, 11:54 PM
Ok, so who is the smart guy who opened another account and is trying to win the troll of the year award? I wish I had thought of it first. When are you going to come out of the closet?

Wouldn't it be funny if Oleg showed up to the challenge?

4v50 Gary
March 29, 2005, 11:55 PM
Should have For Entertainment Purposes Only! attached to his claim.

JohnKSa
March 30, 2005, 12:02 AM
The website looks very interesting!

Mapquest thinks I can drive there in 7 hours.

SW can get me there and back for about $150.

Hmmmmmm...

Strings
March 30, 2005, 12:04 AM
If he shows, y'all need to post the vids...

Gewehr98
March 30, 2005, 08:43 AM
He says nothing allowed under .30 caliber. So I'm out with my 6.5mm, and Bogie's 6mm is now "officially" disqualified, too.

He doesn't like Rich's choice of range, the date, and the fact that Rich will name his shooter just before the match. He also wants multiple challengers, it's not worth his time to take just $5K from one individual... :scrutiny:

OF
March 30, 2005, 10:49 AM
Man....I hope this guy accepts.Yeah, that's gonna happen. Right about the time winged pigs start flying out of my ass.

Everybody needs to keep in mind that: this is beyond a shadow of a doubt some moron pulling everyone's leg and laughing about it. Don't get caught being played the fool by this guy.

- Gabe

Bear Gulch
March 30, 2005, 11:31 AM
Suggest that the parties pony up their 5k to a third party in advance. He probably has 5 gs laying around like he shoots these groups or maybe his Navy/Air Recon Walrus (a new tougher gorup) buddies can back his play.

Nathanael_Greene
March 30, 2005, 11:47 AM
I'm really surprised this has gone as far as it has.

Probably some 15-year-old with a copy of Soldier of Fortune that he's using for reference material.

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2005, 12:06 PM
"I'm the only person here professional enough to shoot 2" at 800 meters
with my surplus rifle....."

JohnKSa
March 30, 2005, 04:39 PM
He's gonna have to either accept or eat dirt at this point. Rich knows where he works and has said he won't let him just disappear.

Bear Gulch
March 30, 2005, 04:42 PM
The drama increases. Can someone give us the link to the challenge thread?

Powderman
March 30, 2005, 04:50 PM
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165988&page=1&pp=25

bogie
March 30, 2005, 05:55 PM
Heh, heh...

It's lose-lose now... Rich traced his (work) IP. If he doesn't show, Rich starts e-mailing...

Strings
March 30, 2005, 06:43 PM
Note to self: do NOT get in a pissing match with Rich. He plays for keeps!

SouthpawShootr
March 30, 2005, 06:59 PM
Oh, from what I've read of his posts, Rich seems like a good guy. Just got tired of listening to this guy spin his wheels.

MudPuppy
March 30, 2005, 07:46 PM
"am a government trained former sharpshooter"

Now, way back when the government was training me to shoot, the "sharpshooters" were the fellas that weren't quite good enough to shoot "expert". Still better than the "marksmen" though.
:neener:

I think he's just trollin'. I remember this one guy, back when I was free agenting for the CIA (leading team 7 down through the jungles of Central America). He was always going on about how he could blaze a trail though any jungle or city. Well, we ended up were MI sent us, 801, Guatemala Blvd. It was supposed to be the "whatamallen" DoD--so, we pulled a couple of them from their beds, they wouldn't answer our questions, slapped 'em around a bit, popped one of 'em with a hushpuppy--still no response. Eventually we hauled it out of there, only to get chewed out by the CIA case operator. Seems like a number had fallen of that stucco building and we were at 1801, not 801 Guatamala Boulevard...School for the Deaf. Bad scene all around. Prolly the same guy. I never ran another op with him after that.

Zak Smith
March 30, 2005, 08:36 PM
1.5-2" groups at 800 meters is certainly possible. A friend of mine has done as good or better with his TRG-42 (338LM), and I have seen pictures of the targets. If you think such shooting is impossible, you need to get out more.

Whether or not this guy can do so with that rifle is another story.

-z

Nippy
March 30, 2005, 08:42 PM
Let me see
has the following key words/ phrases :
"accurate"
"reliable"
"government trained"
"so my shooting error is null or none"

I say 8/10

FNFiveSeven
March 30, 2005, 08:43 PM
Zak,

no disrespect, but your friend is either BSing you, or he's shooting the best made .338 rifle in the world... in outer space. No way you can shoot through the atmosphere and routinely get *sub* 1/4 MOA groups at 800 meters. He may have gotten a lucky small group at that distance, but he would have had to be REALLY lucky. I can shoot 1/10 MOA at 1000 meters with an SKS, but it will only happen once even 10,000 times I try. The trick is being able to do it every time.

I'll bet 10:1 odds against ANYONE sho says he/she can print a sub 2" 5-shot group at 800 meters with ANY gun, in ANY caliber, anywhere (on earth), on demand.

Zak Smith
March 30, 2005, 08:52 PM
The groups were fired in front of a mutually-known credible witness, and I saw the pictures later.
I'll bet 10:1 odds against ANYONE sho says he/she can print a sub 2" 5-shot group at 800 meters with ANY gun, in ANY caliber, anywhere (on earth), on demand.
I'm not sure if you added this later, or if I just missed it reading the first time. I'm not claming that this is possible at all. Poor conditions and a host of other factors will dramatically decrease performance, even if the gun can do it. I was responding those people who scoff at the idea of quarter MOA results beyond 500 yards.

Maybe I need more "minute of pie-plate at 200 yards is good enough (and furthermore, all that's possible)" Kool-Aid. :uhoh:

-z

GRB
March 30, 2005, 08:56 PM
I betcha that I know who culda shooted like this guy says he culd doo. I betchA thet Annie Oakley coulda done it, I do I betcHa. I betchya she coulda done it backweirds wif a meer-ror too.

Thun agIn if she culdunt have dome thet good, well then I betchya thet Commander Cody culd heve doned it, or maybe the Lone Ranger, or proBBably I know a guy culda done better than em all: Lee Harvey Oswald!

Wow he were gobamint traineed toO - mus be sumtin to it if you iZ gobamiNt traineed.

Egads I am slipping into delirium........this is too funny.

orangeninja
March 30, 2005, 08:58 PM
blackrazor.........

Theres no call to go baggin on the SKS now. :D

Not all of us can afford the BearCoat Big Bore Special. :neener:

JohnKSa
March 30, 2005, 09:21 PM
Zak,

Your point is well taken, however the issue isn't really whether or not it's POSSIBLE.

The guy posted he was shooting 1.5 to 2 inches at roughly 800 meters with an SVD. Then he goes on to indict the Rumanian SVD knock-off by saying he could only get 3" groups at 600 meters. That isn't saying "I got a lucky group of 2 inches once." It's saying that on a good day I shoot 1.5" on a bad day I shoot 2".

That said, even a lucky group of 2" at 875 yards is incredible from an SVD. I've never seen an SVD owner or expert claim it was much better than a 1-2 MOA rifle. That means a .25" group at 100 yards would be real hard to swallow, but this guy says he can BETTER than quarter MOA AND at 875yards and implies he does it regularly.

I'm not buying...

AK-74me
March 30, 2005, 10:41 PM
That is ridiculous! Michael Jordan has made jumpers from 90 ft. too. You never heard him claim he is money from 90 ft though. There is a difference. You don't make that kind of claim unless you can repeat it time and time again. Take a look at all these claims this joker is making and tell me you'd put your money on him. Is it possible one or two times maybe.......... over thousands of times of shooting it. Yeah, maybe at best. I'd put money on Michael Moore waking up in the morning next to Charlton Heston before betting on this ******.

Zak Smith
March 30, 2005, 11:01 PM
I said:
1.5-2" groups at 800 meters is certainly possible.
If you think such shooting is impossible, you need to get out more.
Whether or not this guy can do so with that rifle is another story.
I was responding those people who scoff at the idea of quarter MOA results beyond 500 yards.

Here are some examples of the exact kind of sentiment I was talking about in the last sentence:

Seems one of their clients had them accurize his .308 target rifle, after which he was shooting five shot, one-hole groups at 600 yards.

I know of nothing that will shoot 2 inch groups at 800 meters.

I dare say you could put any rifle in a rock-solid rest and it wouldn't hit within 2" of the same spot (any spot, not just a bullseye) at 800 yards.
Yeah, shooting that good is impossible to do on demand in all conditions, but you aren't going to see Camp Perry records broken in hurricanes either. In favorable conditions, it is not impossible.

http://www.dlsports.com/gallery_omc_01.html

For the record, I agree the guy is full of it.

I made a very narrow point which some of you are wrongly generalizing.

bogie
March 30, 2005, 11:04 PM
Here's how to make all the ol' boys in the loading shed at the Supershoot laugh out loud.

Loudly speak the words "All Day Long!"

We all know way too many folks have the single lucky group (that they cut out of the paper so that the fliers don't show...) that they claim their rifle will shoot.

I have a rifle that _will_ shoot 1/10 MOA. The weak factor in the equation is _me_. Thus far, my best "All Day Long" has been five groups over the course of the day that measured out at an average of 0.2017". It is not unheard of for the winning four-day average at the Supershoot, where the best benchresters come to play, to be over 0.25".

So, when you say you've got a rifle that'll shoot 0.25 MOA All Day Long, benchrest shooters see money.

jefnvk
March 30, 2005, 11:33 PM
You know what I see in those pictures? Custom rifles, probably very carefully handloaded ammo. NOT a $600 second-world commercial rifle and milsurp ammo. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I would go with almost everyone else, saying if it is possible, he go collect his $50k.

El Rojo
March 31, 2005, 12:38 AM
That thread is awesome. It really makes me miss Rich and TFL. Classic laughs. I want to see what happens. This is better than watching 24!

LawDog
March 31, 2005, 01:38 PM
TFL and THR are both bad places to go making BS claims on anything, much less marksmanship.

LawDog

AK-74me
April 1, 2005, 06:30 AM
He finally posted again and made up some BS excuse that his little brother logged into his account on March 23 rd while he was on vacation and that is when all the ridiculous claims started. And he says he was never a marine and ect ....ect...

Someone then points out his profile that says marine recon and outdoors survialist and then provides a link to a March 13th posting in which he refers to the Marine corp and training on a .50 cal.

So funny to watch people like this squirm their bluff is called by people who actually know a little something.

OF
April 1, 2005, 12:51 PM
That was just hysterical. He tries to pawn it all off on some imaginary 'little brother' and is caught red-handed in the lie.

What a maroon.

- Gabe

kaferhaus
April 1, 2005, 12:57 PM
The current world record at 600M is 1.172". Shot with a custom bolt gun, with a "wildcat 22Dasher cartridge" with the most miticulously assembled ammo in the world, shot in perfect wind conditions by one of the best shooters in the world...

Even the Soviet's best of the best Dragunov's were only slightly better than minute of angle guns at 100M... which has little correlation to what the gun will do at long range...

This guy is so full of crap his eyes are brown...

itgoesboom
April 1, 2005, 01:23 PM
The best part is that Rich isn't letting this go. He knows this guy is a poser, and his excuse doesn't match up, so he is giving him until monday to contact him through email, or he is contacting his employer.

Man, he don't mess around there. :what:

I.G.B.

Rockstar
April 1, 2005, 03:08 PM
Couldn't help but notice that the faker is from "the hills of Kentucky." Also couldn't help but notice that a similar phony, coincidentally from Kentucky, is making outrageous claims on Glocktalk, with the user name "Glockerspaniel". Check 'em out. See what you think.

eab
April 1, 2005, 03:49 PM
This has to be one of the best quotes out of the thread yet:

"As for posting my personal information on the net ... I choose not to for privacy reasons. I have stayed off the grid this long, and take pride in my privacy. I will reveal myself in due time, but no names over the net. I'm sorry, but I must insist on this."

That made laught out loud. :D

Bear Gulch
April 1, 2005, 05:17 PM
IGB while the guy is a liar and a buffoon, why drag his employer into this?

theCZ
April 1, 2005, 05:31 PM
Ahh, such comedy! I am thoroughly enjoying this! :D

DSRUPTV
April 1, 2005, 05:39 PM
Yeah, threads like this where an idiot gets on a site and tries to spout off crap to a bunch of people who know better are really funny. There are people on this site and TFL that have forgotten more about shooting than I know. I'm glad to see them calling him out.

Control Group
April 1, 2005, 05:44 PM
Bear Gulch, because it's the only way to hold him accountable for his actions. I agree it's a bit drastic, but it's also important for people to realize that, even on the internet, they might have to answer for what they do/say. This is particularly true in the context of a forum with such high standards (compared to the rest of the Wild Wild Web) of behavior.

Given that he's been spouting this nonsense on his employer's dime, I don't see anything unethical about informing his employer. Given that it's the only real way to impose any consequences, I also don't see anything inappropriate about it. Granted, if the employer does get contacted, the actual consequences will probablybe much greater than actually warranted by the offense - but that's what makes the threat effective.

If he's got the guts (some might say stupidity) to attempt to call Rich's bluff, then he deserves to find out that Rich isn't bluffing.

Bear Gulch
April 1, 2005, 05:49 PM
Yep, now that I have read the entire thread I can see why. I think that this guy ius in for a world of hurt.

AK-74me
April 1, 2005, 05:52 PM
I think his real name is Jason Bourne so Rich might not have a chance to make that call, he is probably hiding in Rich's office right now waiting for the right moment to take him out.

"your a 50 million dollar killing machine the U.S. government trained solider"

Or something like that. :D LOL

itgoesboom
April 1, 2005, 05:58 PM
IGB while the guy is a liar and a buffoon, why drag his employer into this?

Bear, I believe the reason that Rich is threatening to drag his employer into the situation is this:

1. His employer is the state. This is pretty important since he is claiming to be a Former Marine.
2. There is a little concern, based on his previous posts, that he is a little unstable, and might consitute a risk to the society. Here is the quote from Rich....

Even before your "brother's" hijack you were posting some disturbing flights of fantasy from home and your school/work place. These included comments about harassing your sleeping neighbors with gunfire and the like and other items of Black-Ops fantasy.

....
Given what I've seen here, I think it may be incumbent on me to contact the Forces-That-Be at the Ky State Network that you've posted from. You can explain the "little brother" story to them; but I'll sleep a lot better.

I.G.B.

Lonestar.45
April 1, 2005, 06:25 PM
Do you guys go around giving your little brothers your passwords and login names to your family members? Who does that kind of thing? No one called him out on that, but I guess it doesn't matter. He deserves whatever comes his way, there should be zero tolerance for "marine sniper posers" in my opinion.

As for bringing his employer in on the deal, I tell you what, if you own/run a website and someone comes in there stirring up trouble, you've got every right to track them down to make them cease and desist. And I'd bet that most employers frown upon using company equipment to do that in a big way. Methinks he is royally screwed, and he brought it all on himself.

If I were Rich, I'd ask him to post a complete and utter retraction, worded to my liking, and a promise to never come back again.

BluesBear
April 1, 2005, 06:34 PM
Someone then points out his profile that says marine recon and outdoors survialist and then provides a link to a March 13th posting in which he refers to the Marine corp and training on a .50 cal.
And that someone was me. In fact post #115 here was originally me?

My father served with distinction in the Third Army in WWII.
AS for me, I attempted to join right after high school but due to medical reasons I was refused by every branch of the service. A fact that shames me to this very day.

So for me to see this poser, acting like a buffoon, under the auspices of the US MIlitary was an outrage.

I am sure we haven't heard the last from this fool. I only hope he decides to bypass THR.

AK-74me
April 1, 2005, 07:02 PM
Yup good catch!

jefnvk
April 1, 2005, 07:35 PM
Do you guys go around giving your little brothers your passwords and login names to your family members? Who does that kind of thing?

I don't log out of THR every time I leave. I hardly lock my computer. You do the math.

PowderBurn
April 1, 2005, 07:45 PM
I don't log out of THR every time I leave. I hardly lock my computer. You do the math.
But you do before you go on vacation, don't you?

SouthpawShootr
April 1, 2005, 08:30 PM
AS for me, I attempted to join right after high school but due to medical reasons I was refused by every branch of the service. A fact that shames me to this very day.

Hardly anything to be ashamed of. Most of my family has been in the military at one time or another. Grandfather served over 30 years in the Navy beginning just before WWII and father served during the Vietnam War (got out just before 1968 Tet Offensive and never actually made it to Vietnam). Various other family member were in this branch or that. Tried USN, Army, and USMC right after high school (didn't bother with AF since other 3 said no, why try the fourth). Hearing deficit prevented me from getting in. Also tried in college for ROTC, again military didn't want to be held responsible if my hearing worsened while in service.

Bottom line, you tried to serve your country, but were prevented by physical matters beyond your control. You did the honorable thing.

Edited to add: Phoey! Just checked on the thread over there and they closed it. Was very entertaining. Did you guys catch the remark about his little brother buying a bunch of salt shakers on e-bay? Even when he knows he's toast, he still keeps it up. Probably why Rich won't let this go. This guy is in serious deep do-do.

Bear Gulch
April 1, 2005, 08:42 PM
IGB yeah I caught that upon reading the whole thread at TFL. Guy needs to get that tinfoil just a bit tighter.

SouthpawShootr
April 1, 2005, 08:45 PM
If he's a state employee, I sure they have rules about using your office equipment (including internet service) for personal goofing off during working hours. In the current environment, it's a good bet that they wouldn't approve of visiting firearms related sites while at work.

El Rojo
April 1, 2005, 08:59 PM
I don't know about the contacting the employer and seeing him as a threat. Then again, Rich does run a tight ship and I respect that. It is better to be safe than sorry and what the heck, it might actually teach some people that hte Internet is real and you are responsible for your actions. I hope Rich and the moderators keep us updated.

lead bricks
April 1, 2005, 09:12 PM
i want him on my team.camp perry is in a few months

natedog
April 1, 2005, 10:33 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=756958

Gewehr98
April 1, 2005, 11:13 PM
I still very much like Bogie's idea of a "shoot all day, then get fat at night" gathering. I've got a bunch of match ammo made up since the hurricanes ruined my rifle ranges, and extra leave saved up. Good reason for a gaggle of classy folks to get out there somewhere, shoot all day, and then find a nice piece of sizzling rare cow afterwards to muck on, while washing things down with Shiner Bock. :D

bogie
April 1, 2005, 11:44 PM
I just posted it over at TFL...

A _serious_ shootin' match.

Okay - here's the challenge...

Three matches.

1) A handgun course to be determined by either Scott, our club president (who is into that sorta thing), or John Ross (who is also into that sorta thing, and who may end up kickin' something a little stranger). My only stipulation is that it must be major, and involve at least one reload. Points will be awarded based on 50% score, and 50% style. Judges will be the other competitors.

2) Silhouettes. Pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. - you know the drill. Various distances. Whatever rifle you want, no armor piercing stuff.

3) A 10 shot group on a standard NBRSA 200 yard benchrest target, with whatever rifle you choose to bring.

I'll buy the beer (Shiner!) for afterwards, and furnish some room for people who shouldn't be driving.

Seein' as how I'm a government trained Marksman (hey, my whole relay was screwed... the grass had grown up, and when we made one of the DIs shoot the course, he flunked too... and then made us swingblade the range... but I scored expert on grenades... musta been all that fishing...), I'll put up prize money of $1 per event, which must be signed by all other participants prior to framing.

Why $1? We're friends, let's stay friends.

Why the signatures? Friendship only goes so far.

Oh, and on the subject of Little Brother and the wholesale lot of ebay salt shakers... I just bought six dozen shot glasses... I'm serious.

Zak Smith
April 2, 2005, 12:13 AM
Ya'll could just show up to a 3Gun match.
:D

bogie
April 2, 2005, 04:19 AM
Yeah, but it ain't THIS three gun match.

I'll loan the .45 that I keep in nightstand to whoever needs it.

I'll loan a passable .308 to whoever needs it.

And I'll loan a 6PPC Unlimited benchrest rifle to whoever needs it.

Are you ready to party?

And, more importantly... Are you ready to eat, drink, and be merry?

pignock
April 2, 2005, 11:13 AM
Bogie,

Link please? I looked in the forums I thought it would be and couldn't find it.

I'm from central Illinois and would like an opportunity to meet some of the peoples who's posts I've been reading for the last few years.

I've got a really screwy work schedule so it might not be doable, but if it is, I'd sure like to be there.


Okay, I found the link : bogie's thee gun post at TFL (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1531625&posted=1#post1531625)



Thanks,

Keith

Bear Gulch
April 2, 2005, 03:07 PM
So has Lucky committed japanese ritual suicide yet?

Gewehr98
April 2, 2005, 08:14 PM
I'll bring the 1903A4, 6.5-06, and 700 PSS, for certain - other boomsticks upon request. Florida doesn't have much in the way of regional foodstuffs that one can't get elsewhere. Maybe raw oysters or littleneck clams?

If you enjoyed reading about "Whats your BS Meter say to this??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!