Is it a crime to have $1,500 in cash on your person?


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hso
March 27, 2005, 09:36 PM
This is certainly a tin-foil-hat question, but have any of you heard of a recent fed law that makes it a crime to carry $1,500 or more in cash on your person? Since I know folks that carry more than this with them to shows it would make buying knives and guns interesting.

On a similar wavelength, is there a fed law that makes it a crime to carry $10,000 or more in cash on your person?

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HighVelocity
March 27, 2005, 09:37 PM
I haven't heard of it but I'd like to read it. Do you have a link?

cobb
March 27, 2005, 09:38 PM
BULLSH :eek: T

hkOrion
March 27, 2005, 09:43 PM
there is some federal law against carrying more than 10k in cash when crossing international borders. something to try to stop people from moving large amounts of cash in an undocumented manner.

jsalcedo
March 27, 2005, 09:46 PM
You can't travel on an airliner with more than 10K unless you declare it. If you declare it the money might be arrested unless you can prove where it came from. Bank reciept etc...


A police officer can take money from you as evidence of a crime without arresting you, the lab WILL find cocaine on some of it and it will be confiscated.

I often carry large sums of money for gun shopping and vacationing but always in a bank money envelope with the bank receipt inside showing the amount withdrawn and the balance.

RevDisk
March 27, 2005, 09:51 PM
The $10k limit is for international travel. If you deposit/withdraw $10k or more, banks must report it. Neither is technically illegal. If you declare the cash, technically it's ok. Same with depositing $10,001.

If the feds come knocking, you better be able to prove you made it legally.

Now, is a wise idea to carry so much cash? I doubt it. I'm not as much worried about being mugged, as I am LEO folks getting suspicious. If you're legal, you probably won't get in any trouble. The worst case is that you lose the cash. In my opinion, it's not worth the hassle.

Just make two $5,000 deposits on two seperate bank accounts. ;)

Edit : Now that I think about it, if I had the cash, I'd make a bunch of $10k deposits. If anyone asks questions, have my paperwork handy. Then I'd do it over again, just to make 'em fill out more paperwork.

Werewolf
March 27, 2005, 09:56 PM
You can't travel on an airliner with more than 10K unless you declare it. If you declare it the money might be arrested unless you can prove where it came from. Bank reciept etc...


A police officer can take money from you as evidence of a crime without arresting you, the lab WILL find cocaine on some of it and it will be confiscated.America! Land of the Free!

Yeah...
Riiiiiiiiiiiight... :banghead:

kikilee
March 27, 2005, 10:12 PM
REVDISK got it right. The rest is BS. There is no federal law against carrying more than $1500.00 in cash.

jsalcedo
March 27, 2005, 10:15 PM
There are a few places with laws on the books that say you can be arrested for vagrancy if are not carrying at least $15 on your person.

I'm thinking this about 10 years ago in ether Corpus Christi or South Padre Island.

The Rabbi
March 27, 2005, 10:21 PM
You have to declare more than 10k on international flights only. I have never heard of anyone getting arrested solely for carrying that kind of money. Where they were arrested there was a whole lot more going on, like drug dealing.
If you own a retail business and deposit more than a certain amount in $100 bills you have to declare that too. Friends of mine run a store selling "urban" clothing and a lot of their receipts come in $100 bills. They declare it on the deposit slip and they're done. Been doing it for years and never had an issue.

Bear Gulch
March 27, 2005, 10:35 PM
You also can't own more than 1500 bucks worth of tinfoil! :neener:

jsalcedo
March 27, 2005, 10:44 PM
Five months after law enforcement officials took Hector Herrera's $4,000 at
Eppley Airfield - saying it smelled of illegal drugs - federal officials
have decided to give it back.


U.S. Attorney Tom Monaghan said Wednesday that his office reviewed the case
of the 30-year-old Mexican immigrant and has declined to pursue the
forfeiture in court.


"We looked at the law, the facts and decided not to proceed," he said. He
would not elaborate.


Officials at the American Civil Liberties Union in Nebraska, which had
contended that Herrera was unfairly targeted because of the color of his
skin, said they were pleased with the decision yet upset that Herrera's
money had been held up for so long.


"Clearly we're glad the right thing is being done," said Tim Butz, executive
director of the ACLU in Nebraska. "But it goes to show that unless the
government's power is held in check by aggressive vigilance on the part of
its citizens, we're going to keep losing these battles for civil liberty."


Lawyers in Monaghan's office would have had to defend the forfeiture in
court if the government were to keep the cash. Monaghan's decision not to
proceed means that the money must be returned.


The return of Herrera's money, however, does not necessarily end the ACLU's
challenge to searches and seizures at Eppley. The airport surveillance is
coordinated by the Nebraska State Patrol.


Butz said he believes that Herrera, a laborer and restaurant worker, was
stopped because of his ethnic background and the "perception that he was a
vulnerable target" who would not fight to regain his money.


Herrera was never charged with a crime nor did he have illegal drugs on him
when law officers took his money June 16 at Eppley.


Afterward, State Patrol officials who oversee the drug team defended the
action.


Herrera was stopped by drug agents after paying cash for a flight to
Arizona.


When an officer in plain clothes approached him and asked him to be
searched, Herrera agreed. A drug-sniffing dog indicated that Herrera's
money was tainted with drug residue. The money was confiscated; Herrera was
let go.


Studies have shown that most of the currency in circulation is tainted with
drug residue.

DelayedReaction
March 27, 2005, 11:06 PM
When I went on a cruise to Mexico, they said you had to declare more than $10K in cash when going through customs. So it's not just for airlines, it's any border crossing.

They also restrict how much alcohol you can bring in. :cuss: :fire: :banghead:

Hkmp5sd
March 27, 2005, 11:08 PM
Carrying large sums of money may not be illegal, but it may be expensive.

Legalized Theft

Willie Jones of Nashville was flying to Houston on February 27, 1991, to purchase plants for his landscaping business. Because Jones was black and paid cash for his plane ticket, the ticket clerk reported him to nearby Drug Enforcement Agency officers, who presumed Jones was a drug courier. DEA officers at the Nashville airport approached Jones, checked his identification, and asked permission to search him. Although Jones refused to grant permission, the officers searched him anyway and found $9,000 in cash. The DEA agents then announced that they were "detaining" the money. Jones observed: "They said I was going to buy drugs with it, that their dog sniffed it and said it had drugs on it." (A 1989 study found that 70 percent of all the currency in the United States had cocaine residue on it.) Jones never saw the dog. The officers didn't arrest Jones, but they kept the money. When Jones asked the officers for a receipt for his money, they handed him a receipt for an "undetermined amount of U.S. currency." Jones objected and asked the officers to count the money out, but the officers refused, claiming that such an action would violate DEA policy.


Federal judge Thomas Wiseman, in an April 1993 decision, concluded that "the officers' behavior at this point was casual and sarcastic... they believed that the seizure of the currency was all but a fait accompli ... they cared little for Mr. Jones's feelings of insecurity ." Judge Wiseman concluded that the DEA officials' testimony on the seizure was "misleading," "unconvincing," and "inconsistent" and ordered the money returned--after a two-year legal battle. Jones observed: "I didn't know it was against the law for a 42-year-old black man to have money in his pocket."

http://www.libertarianworld.com/Property-Seizure-Rights.html

cracked butt
March 27, 2005, 11:25 PM
As far as bank transactions go, the banks are required to report transactions of 10K or more. I've made a lot of such transactions in the last 10 years or so and have never had the Men in Black visit me in the middle of the night to threaten me, nor do I have black helicoptors circling my neighborhood. :D

As for carrying around 10K in cash, I'd be really leary of doing so. There are very few legitimate reasons to do so when you can carry travellers checks and most places take credit cards. If the cash is lost or stolen, you have no way of recovering it- you are basicly screwed, with travellers checks, the bank can have send you a new set of them in a matter of hours, maybe even minutes these days. Ask me how I know.

lwsimon
March 27, 2005, 11:47 PM
I disagree. Large amounts of cash can come in handy in negotiations, such as buying a new car. Nothing makes the price go down like pulling out a wad of $100s and stating your final offer firmly. They salivate all over the place!

Furthermore, I maintain it is none of anyone's %^&*( business how much cash I have on me. If you think I commited a crime, get a warrant.

Flatfender
March 27, 2005, 11:49 PM
I remember reading about Actor/Comedian Red Skelton carrying $40,000 to $80,000 cash on him, all the time, back in the 40's or 50's. He grew up poor and didn't want to ever be broke again. Must have been $1000s!

Standing Wolf
March 28, 2005, 12:02 AM
Large amounts of cash can come in handy in negotiations, such as buying a new car. Nothing makes the price go down like pulling out a wad of $100s and stating your final offer firmly. They salivate all over the place!

Yep. I've done it with $500 in twenties. It doesn't hurt to pretend to lose count somewhere around $420 and start over. The longer the car sales parasites look at cash, the hungrier they get.

nordaim
March 28, 2005, 12:37 AM
The anecdote about Red Skelton reminds me of a man my step-father works with. He is an older gentleman who was raised by a depression era family. As a result, to this day, he always has ~$5000 in cash on him and another ~$5000 at his house. Each paycheck he takes so much in cash, transfers part of it to the roll at home, the remainder to the cash on him. He has done this for decades, slowly increasing the amount carried/stored as time passed.

As a side note, this same gentleman had an attempted robbery on his house after his maid discovered the large sum of cash and thought there was more in the house. Her boyfriend and another perp broke into the house and attempted to rob it, only to be met by the man and his revolver. Shot and killed the one fellow, hospitalized the other. When he called the cops, they took the one body to the morgue, the other to the hospital, and the homeowner was promptly arrested for murder. He spend about a month in jail on murder charges before being released for acting in self defense.

Art Eatman
March 28, 2005, 12:42 AM
"Arrest the money" is not at all unknown in various jurisdictions. It's not just DEA, either.

Louisiana passed a state law saying that suspected drug money would be split up 50% to the state, 25% to the involved judge, and 25% to the police jurisdiction making the arrest. It is not necessary that the person owning the money be arrested on a drug charge. There was enough uproar over one incident involving a Florida woman that Florida's state government was very vocal about dissuading Floridians from attending Mardis Gras. I think that AAA got involved enough to warn people of the potential problem about carrying large sums of cash when in Louisiana.

In east Texas, several yeqrs back, a black guy from Louisiana who does cash deals for old cars for restoration was stopped as a suspected drug dealer. His $11,000 was taken away from him as an "arrest the money" deal. His legal costs to regain his own money were not trivial...

No, there is no law against possessing any amount of cash. It's just that the present day laws allow "the fuzz" to take it away from you and the burden of proof is on you that it's money that was honestly acquired.

Art

Pilgrim
March 28, 2005, 12:58 AM
Louisiana passed a state law saying that suspected drug money would be split up 50% to the state, 25% to the involved judge, and 25% to the police jurisdiction making the arrest.

The judge gets to keep a quarter of the seizure? Do you have a citation for this claim?

Pilgrim

cracked butt
March 28, 2005, 01:06 AM
I disagree. Large amounts of cash can come in handy in negotiations, such as buying a new car. Nothing makes the price go down like pulling out a wad of $100s and stating your final offer firmly. They salivate all over the place!

Pulling a checkbook out does the exact same thing. I don't think carrying $500 in cash is going to make or break a deal at a car dealership, when you can write a personal check for $25,000 it gets their attention.

Double Naught Spy
March 28, 2005, 01:19 AM
Here is a link on the Louisiana money seizure dispersal...
http://www.ndsn.org/feb97/louisiana.html

Note, non of the money goes to individuals, but to agencies of various types.

monsternav
March 28, 2005, 01:57 AM
Delayed Reaction said: They also restrict how much alcohol you can bring in.

There is no restriction on the amount of alcohol (Or anything else that is not restricted) you can bring in. There is a restriction on the amount you can bring in that is not subject to a duty. You can be charged a certain percent (which I forget) of the items claimed worth, but it is up to the individual inspector. I have brought back 24 1.5L bottles of Sang Thip from Thailand several times. Only once was I charged a duty ($20).

2nd Amendment
March 28, 2005, 02:09 AM
As a car sales parasite I love it when people come in with cash. But just to burst your bubbles you aren't going to get a better deal. I already know what's in the car and what I have to get out of it. If you don't have enough cash I'll always let you make it up with a check. :)

On deposits, I love walking in with 10k or more and dropping it into three accts. The tellers always laugh, saying that everyone does it just to spite the fed's paperwork. Of course there is another advantage to cash: I can always write the paperwork for less, save the buyer some sales tax and stick the balance in my pocket. Of course I would never actually do that but some dealers, hey, parasites, dontcha know. :D

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 28, 2005, 02:32 AM
30 years or so ago I was working as a bank teller; one of the seminars the Treasury Department/Secret Service put on for us regarding spotting counterfeit bills mentioned that (back then!) 80% of all bills of $20 demonimation and larger had detectable traces of drug residue on them.

I see no reason whatsoever for that to be any different today.

As far as cash on hand, my grandparents cashed every Social Security check they ever received (starting in 1968), put it into a small envelope every month with the amount penciled on it, and filed it in a strongbox in their closet. After their passing, there was a *remarkable* amount of money in there. That was what they used for their 'ready cash reserve' rather than writing checks for cash against their bank account, which was nothing to sneeze at, either.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Delmar
March 28, 2005, 03:09 AM
The seizure law, so far as cash goes, is part of the RICO statutes. The intent was to take the money being used to buy drugs before they could actuall purchase the product.

THAT's why you should never let "do-gooder" laws clear committee. Kind of like "gun safety legislation".

Stebalo
March 28, 2005, 04:02 AM
Is it illegal to carry $1500 cash on your person? No. Is it illegal to carry $10,000 cash on your person? It is illegal to import/export more than that sum of money in US or foreign cash, travelers checks, cashiers checks, bank draft, money order, etc without declaring it to the gubbamint. Or to make a cash transaction with any of the above vehicles without filling out form 8300 with the IRS.

Regardless, the goverment can and often does seize sums of cash from honest citizens without oversight or appeal under the aegis of federal seizure laws.

Whether you are guilty of a crime or not, suspicion is all they need to take your cash/vehicle/home/posessions. It's a lucrative trade for law enforcement. State and local LEO agencies most of the proceeds from such seizures. Odds are that even if they take your property from you, you won't even be charged with a crime. That doesn't mean they have to return to you what is yours.

An article I found from the Pittsburgh Press in 1991 estimated that until then, $1.5 billion worth of assets have been seized from private citizens without due process. I shudder to think what that figure might be today.

Ky Larry
March 28, 2005, 08:43 PM
"Arrest the money." And some people still think the "War On Drugs" is a success? Please,wake up America.

Fletchette
March 28, 2005, 10:47 PM
there is some federal law against carrying more than 10k in cash when crossing international borders. something to try to stop people from moving large amounts of cash in an undocumented manner.

Hmmm. But the Feds seem to have no problem with 100 Billion dollars a year being mailed to Mexico by illegal immigrant workers...

whm1974
March 28, 2005, 11:18 PM
There are a few places with laws on the books that say you can be arrested for vagrancy if are not carrying at least $15 on your person.

I'm thinking this about 10 years ago in ether Corpus Christi or South Padre Island.

Right. So anybody can be arrested for vagrancy. How many of us have been in public with no money at all? For that matter I know a few people who use credit/debit card all the time and carry no cash.

Sounds like a law pass so the local police can harassed certain groups of people. Like "gun control laws we know how this backfired.

-Bill

SUE ROVR
March 28, 2005, 11:35 PM
Well, I for one have no issues carrying $1500. I usually don't as I loath anything bigger than a 20 and more than 500 becomes cumbersome.

Then again I am not a 42 year old black landscaper or a 30 year old mexican migrant.

I am a well dressed white guy. And if they give me ???? about it I will show them my last pay stub. Yes officer I make more in a day than you do in a week. Sorry, thats why I have some money. :neener:

As far as the car thing, I worked briefly for a high end dealership. Most smart people with their own businesses would put 9000 in cash down.

The dumb ones would put 9900 or close (automatic report) or worse yet ask if you would report it (automatic report).

I did see $75k in cash, a few times. No biggy, no one cared.

It is not drugs etc. it is tax evasion.

Art Eatman
March 29, 2005, 01:08 AM
My source for the Louisiana commentary was an article in the
Tallahassee Democrat, written around the time of all the brouhaha over Louisiana "doings". Accuracy? Dunno. It was later reported that the Louisiana governor got involved, in an effort to persuade tourists to come bring money without fear of "grabbitis".

Art

pete f
March 29, 2005, 02:25 AM
My nephew had been at school at ASU and was cutting thru Utah on the way back to Minnesota. He had a substantial sum of money on him as he had sold a car and had already closed his back account in Ariz. While driving with another friend, he was stopped and told he was a drug runner.
No Probable cause, no interview/interogation,
just " license, registration, i believe you are a drug runner." get out of the car. They( the deputies) opened his back pack found the money and the receipt for the car and said this is drug money and took it. The boys asked for a case number, or a receipt and were told it was not needed, as they would be getting a statement from the county, both were cuffed and hauled to jail. Using his one phone call, nephew called my brother who is not without resources. It took two attourneys and several thousand in fees to get the kids released. The money took several months to get back, and the state of Utah declined to cover legal fees, now being sued for that too.

Otherguy Overby
March 29, 2005, 03:10 AM
Art:
My source for the Louisiana commentary was an article in the
Tallahassee Democrat, written around the time of all the brouhaha over Louisiana "doings". Accuracy? Dunno. It was later reported that the Louisiana governor got involved, in an effort to persuade tourists to come bring money without fear of "grabbitis".


Some cities along I-10 were doing it to travelers, too. They were confiscating cars, cash and everything from travelers with out of state plates. It got so bad 60 minutes even did a segment on it. Yep, they got stopped, too, and their car was also "confiscated".

Some people just need killin.

PMDW
March 29, 2005, 03:15 AM
Louisiana has a bad reputation of being very corrupt.

It's all true, too.

Rico567
March 29, 2005, 07:53 AM
The effects of the "seizure" statutes are of the greatest concern, being another example of Unintended Consequences. It is now an obvious incentive toward corruption, in this case of agencies who are allowed to supplement their budgets the more they seize. It's no different than the situation that used to exist where magistrates were allowed to keep a percentage of traffic tickets as their pay. When this practice was finally challenged, the studies used in evidence demonstrated that a conviction rate bordering on 100% existed where this system was in place. I think it was Mapp v. Ohio that finally made this practice illegal. I don't see how the current crop of seizure laws are any different. If the money or property is seized, the proceeds should go to charity or the treasury, and shouldn't directly benefit the agency in question.
I've never even heard a rumor about it being illegal to carry a certain amount of money per se. I theorize that this has emerged because the $10K reporting requirements in banks (note that banks will also report ANY amount that appears "suspicious") and whatever import / export laws on cash exist. These laws vary from one country to another. It is my understanding that modern currency has elements in it that are designed to make it detectable by the equipment in airports, for just this reason. Some nations are very restrictive in how much of their currency can be exported. As far as I know, there are no restrictions of this kind on the amount of U.S. currency, only the declaration regs.

whm1974
March 29, 2005, 10:00 AM
Some cities along I-10 were doing it to travelers, too. They were confiscating cars, cash and everything from travelers with out of state plates. It got so bad 60 minutes even did a segment on it. Yep, they got stopped, too, and their car was also "confiscated".

Travelers will be wise to avoid those cities and/or I-10

-Bill

dolanp
March 29, 2005, 12:39 PM
On deposits, I love walking in with 10k or more and dropping it into three accts. The tellers always laugh, saying that everyone does it just to spite the fed's paperwork.

That's actually called "structuring" and it is against federal law as well. Many financial institutes will file a Suspicious Activity Report when it's obvious you are doing this.

Art Eatman
March 29, 2005, 12:53 PM
And yet I've been making several round trips per year between my home here in Terlingua and my wife's home in Thomasville, GA. (Second marriage; two "micro-empires") I've never had the first sign of a hassle between San Antonio and Tallahassee. I guess between us in these 16 years we've been stopped maybe three or four times for speeding...

I'm not complaining, you understand. :D

Art

whm1974
March 29, 2005, 02:41 PM
That's actually called "structuring" and it is against federal law as well. Many financial institutes will file a Suspicious Activity Report when it's obvious you are doing this.

They are required to report that too. And it is real easy to bust and convicted someone who wasn't aware he was running afoul of "structuring laws".

-Bill

Deavis
March 29, 2005, 03:23 PM
Sounds like a law pass so the local police can harassed certain groups of people. Like "gun control laws we know how this backfired.


I think that was exactly the point! Being homeless on a Friday night...

jnojr
March 29, 2005, 03:49 PM
Now that I think about it, if I had the cash, I'd make a bunch of $10k deposits. If anyone asks questions, have my paperwork handy. Then I'd do it over again, just to make 'em fill out more paperwork.

When the Government does paperwork, you do paperwork. And pay fees, taxes, etc. I guarantee you, they can hold out longer than you can :D

jnojr
March 29, 2005, 03:53 PM
Pulling a checkbook out does the exact same thing. I don't think carrying $500 in cash is going to make or break a deal at a car dealership, when you can write a personal check for $25,000 it gets their attention.

Errrm, anyone can write a check for $25,000, $25,000,000, or any other amount.

$500 in cash isn't going to raise anybodys eyebrows, except maybe for a beater being sold on a street corner somewhere. That's for sure. And i doubt a dealership would be wowed by cash... it's probably a bigger headache for them than it's worth. The last time I bought a car, I used a "sight draft" (or is it "site draft"?). Once verified, it's as good as cash or any other negotiable instrument. But it's completely worthless to anyone but the dealer.

Valkman
March 29, 2005, 04:09 PM
If there was some law against carrying more than $1500 I guarantee it won't be enforced in Vegas - they don't have the manpower or the jailspace!

I don't believe there is such a law and if there was it would not be enforced here. Rich tourists and resdents are looked at as assets, not criminals. :)

Mark in California
March 29, 2005, 04:11 PM
Worked 17 years as a messenger for a armoured car company. I talked to the tellers about these laws.

A teller was fired, and the bank fined by order of the government for explaining these laws to a customer. The teller was almost charged with a crime. The govenment's thinking was if a custormer asked about banking restrictions, they must be up to no good. That the bank should have refused to answer questions and then should have filed a Suspecious Transaction Report on them.

Over $10,000 - a Large Transaction Report - so many are filed that very few are actually read.

If any transaction appears questionable - a Suspecious Transaction Report - the IRS/Treasury reads all of these.

If you have a history of large cash deposits, you may be given a higher thresh-hold amount beforing generating a report.

Banks hate these reports. They are time consuming, and can really slow things down. They also must be filled out that day. If its closing time, you stay after and file the report.

As to "large" sums of money, my dad carried a large amount. As kids we thought it was a few hundred. After his death we found out it was a few thousand on his person and another couple thousand somewhere around him. This was not flash money. He never used it. My father grew up in the depression. He never wanted to go through that again. He kept this money so he and his family would never be without shelter, food, clothing and heat. He never needed it, but it was very important to his well being. He never fully trusted banks, he remember them failing. He felt it was his responsiblity to insure his own well being and security.

El Tejon
March 29, 2005, 04:35 PM
Federal law? You mean there are federal laws now? :D

hso, have not heard that one. Just so you know I'm writing that one down in my law rumor book.

10K is border crossings.

"Mr. Tejon, do you have anything to declare?"
"Yes, I declare that I long for a free country!" :D

whm1974
March 29, 2005, 05:38 PM
A teller was fired, and the bank fined by order of the government for explaining these laws to a customer. The teller was almost charged with a crime. The govenment's thinking was if a custormer asked about banking restrictions, they must be up to no good. That the bank should have refused to answer questions and then should have filed a Suspecious Transaction Report on them.

This stuiped. What law did the teller break? So if a customer asks questions he is now a subspect?

-Bill

Archie
March 29, 2005, 06:56 PM
No such federal law, and I don't know of any state or local law. Not only would such a law be difficult to enforce, it has no reason. (Not that 'no reason' has ever stopped a goofy legislature...)

Title 31, U S Code, section 5316 mandates reporting "...currency or other monetary instruments..." worth more than $10,000 being moved into or out of the US. (Airplane, ship, on foot...)
The law was passed in the late '70s or early '80s and was aimed at drug smugglers and money launderers. SCOTUS had already ruled on laws singling out 'criminals' as being violative of 'self-incrimination' rights. However, by writing the law to include anyone transporting funds in and out of the US, it was constitutional. If a person does not file the report, 31 USC 5317 allows seizure of the funds in question. The theory is this would accomplish two things: One, get the money away from the criminal enterprize; and Two, give the government a lead into investigating certain people and organizations associated with the illegal currency transfer.
It works to some degree to this day.

Unfortunately, this turned into a cash cow for the federal government. To be sure, seizures were made in accordance with law, but not in the spirit of the law. Happily, the courts have rectified this to a high degree.
The matter of the Louisiana police is quite another matter; I'll not comment on it.

The question arises, "Does the government have any business knowing how much money I have?"

In general, I don't think so. However, remember the currency reporting laws were passed by Congress in response to the public's demand of 'Do something about drug pushers!' Not that I'm sure this was the right thing to do, anymore than the GCA '68 or the GCA '94 or the Assault Weapons Ban were the right thing to do about the murder rate.

It is up to citizens (like you and me) to deal with our elected Congresscritters and tell them what is proper to do, not just to 'do something'.

Finally, if you agree or not, the currency reporting requirement is the law. Giving some of your currency over $10,000 to your spouse and some to your kid is 'structuring'; a strategy designed to defeat the law, and is illegal. You can like it or not, but willfully violating the law will not help your situation.

Here endeth the lesson.

DRZinn
March 29, 2005, 08:16 PM
The more I hear, the more nauseated I get.

I may have to begin dealing only in cash.

Mark in California
March 29, 2005, 10:51 PM
When I was working in the armoured transport industry there was a treasury circular on the teller line of every bank I visited detailing the banking restrictions. It has some sort of security classification and was not to be released to the public. Anytime you ask about any of the limits, the bank is supose to report you. At this time I am 5 years out of date and things might have changed, but I do not think so.

The government is very touch about anything to do with the money supply. Just asking can cause all kinds of problems.

Archie
March 29, 2005, 11:20 PM
I don't doubt some teller was fired for talking about something to do with bank security or securities.

I CAN say no one was fired for informing someone about the provisions of 31 USC 5316 and 5317. It's a public law. Even if the teller or someone else told you directly, there is more to that story than what you've been told.

dolanp
March 30, 2005, 01:07 PM
I may have to begin dealing only in cash.

Haven't you been paying attention? That makes you an instant drug dealer and you will have to pay a lawyer to take two years to get your money back. :barf:

jnojr
March 30, 2005, 02:39 PM
When I was working in the armoured transport industry there was a treasury circular on the teller line of every bank I visited detailing the banking restrictions. It has some sort of security classification and was not to be released to the public. Anytime you ask about any of the limits, the bank is supose to report you. At this time I am 5 years out of date and things might have changed, but I do not think so.

Sounds like we need a national Ask-Your-Bank-About-Currency-Limits Day. Swamp Big Brother with reports of peons who are daring to try to discover what the law says.

Blackburn
April 12, 2005, 04:11 PM
They( the deputies) opened his back pack found the money and the receipt for the car and said this is drug money and took it.

Vote em out of their position from the rooftops. :neener:

dustind
April 12, 2005, 06:54 PM
RICO laws are about the worst thing that has happened to America since Jim Crow laws.

I would love to ask my teller if they will report my few hundred dollar pay check transactions each time I go there, but I am afraid of an audit. I wonder if saying I am afraid of an audit will get me audited. :uhoh:

jondwright
April 12, 2005, 07:07 PM
:banghead: No, but saying it on a public internet forum might get you audited!

dustind
April 12, 2005, 07:20 PM
That's what I meant, saying it on the net. If I do get audited I will report back here so you guys will know.

JohnBT
April 13, 2005, 08:58 AM
Let them report me. What's the number, I'll report myself.

My branch used to require a manager's intials on a personal check made out to cash in an amount of a grand or more. I cashed one the other week and was told that a $1200 check didn't require initials. So, with a big grin, I asked what the new limit was. No answer.

I love cash. Heck, I can get $600 in 20s out of the ATM everyday.

I paid my last Visa bill at the bank with cash - over $5k in 100s. And no, I don't usually carry that much, so don't bother looking me up. :)

What does make them mad is showing up like I did yesterday with over $100 in rolled coins. What makes me mad is being asked "Do you have an account here other than this bank box bill you're trying to pay?" Uh, yeah - checking, savings, bank box and Visa, all since 1975. If they could keep a teller longer than 2 months they'd know that.

John

Group9
April 13, 2005, 09:56 AM
Let's review some of the things people have quoted here as valid laws.

1. Can't have over $1500 in cash on you.
2. Can't have over $10,000 in cash on you.
3. Can't cross the border with over $10,000 in cash.
4. Can't get on an airplane with over $10,000.

No wonder you guys think the government is screwed up if you believe every crazy thing about what is against the law and what isn't that you hear somewhere. None of the above is against the law.

JohnBT
April 13, 2005, 12:25 PM
You can have more than ten grand, but you must report it. Pay particular attention to the part of the quote below that says "The penalties for non-compliance can be severe. "


From the U.S. Customs site:

"Money and Other Monetary Instruments

You may bring into or take out of the country, including by mail, as much money as you wish. However, if it is more than $10,000, you will need to report it to CBP. Ask the CBP officer for the Currency Reporting Form (FinCen 105). The penalties for non-compliance can be severe.

“Money” means monetary instruments and includes U.S. or foreign coins currently in circulation, currency, traveler’s checks in any form, money orders, and negotiable instruments or investment securities in bearer form."

pete f
April 13, 2005, 01:57 PM
since My first post on this subject I have been disposing the estate of a great aunt. One thing we have found is a GREAT deal of cash in her possesions. In finding it we are stuck with a conundrum, we do not wish to inflate the value of her estate, but we will be force to in order to convert this much cash. When we went to the bank, I asked to see a senior person and asked them what to do, this person stated the best way was to bring the money as we got it. As we were listed as executor of the estate and she was a person of some resources this would not raise a flag as the bank would state that it was from a person known to them and who was in the habit of dealing in cash. if you wish to go nuts, try counting shoeboxes full of currency. I found it strange she had so much flour as I never remember her eating at home since her husband died many years ago, four bags of flour full of bills, one of moldy flour. I had no idea she was worth this much. Niether did my mom. The bank person has been a big help, he also told us of three accounts she had that we had no idea she owned. all five figures. He said she knew that only accounts of under a hundred thousand were insured so everytime she got close she opend another one. Her husband was a salesman, and his acounts are still paying residuals.

Peet
April 13, 2005, 05:00 PM
If they could keep a teller longer than 2 months they'd know that.Banks treat tellers like sh*t. Management does so, corporate does so, and often branch
platform (mid-management) staff do so. Corporate at banks is incompetent at levels I have
only seen otherwise in "academentia". Constant lies about pay, staffing, hours...oh, the stories...

Depending on the branch (my Mrs. worked in a liberal college town) the customers suck at levels
only the hard vacuum of outer space can compete with. (Surprise! Smaller conservative towns
were often a delight to work in. Actually, I'm not surprised.)

Oh, yes, to stay OT, the Mrs. had to do the paperwork on the large x-actions and, yes, they
looked at some (most) just under 10K also.

Peet

dustind
April 13, 2005, 07:04 PM
Group9: People where just asking. Besides, all of the things you listed can get your money stolen by the government, so yes, the government is screwed up.

RevDisk
April 14, 2005, 05:08 AM
Let's review some of the things people have quoted here as valid laws.

1. Can't have over $1500 in cash on you.
2. Can't have over $10,000 in cash on you.
3. Can't cross the border with over $10,000 in cash.
4. Can't get on an airplane with over $10,000.

No wonder you guys think the government is screwed up if you believe every crazy thing about what is against the law and what isn't that you hear somewhere. None of the above is against the law.

1. Carrying over $1500 is legal, but can possibly be confiscated as suspected drug money. You must prove it is legal to get it back. A google search will turn up more than a few cases.

2. Deposits over $10,000 in cash legally require the bank to notify certain government folk. There are exemptions to this rule. Corporations on the NYSE (few other stock exchanges), government agencies, etc.

3 and 4. Legal if you notify Customs. Illegal if you don't.

While none of the things you meantioned are illegal per se, expect increased scrutiny for doing any of them. You might get auditted, cash confiscated, a thicker govt file, etc. Or maybe nothing bad will happen whatsoever. You must ask for government permission or hope the government doesn't confiscate your money. But it's not illegal.

:rolleyes:

odysseus
April 14, 2005, 05:33 AM
pete f, you need to stay calm, protect those assets and do more research. I am not disrespecting the bank representatives opinion, but you sound as though that's the only person or method you are using. I hope you think very carefully on that one and seek some other honest opinions. Your situation is tricky, and if there are other beneficiaries - you need to protect all angles of anything you do for future investment.

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