[Azrael256]

Well, here at OCU (Oklahoma City University) there is going to be an anti-war rally in front of the cafeteria in about half an hour. I'm putting my cammies on, and my flag is sitting ready on my bed. My brother deployed to Kuwait from his base at Bamberg, Germany a week ago last Sunday, so there shouldn't be any question as to where I stand. Wish me luck.

[4v50 Gary]

Good luck young man. Give us an after-action debriefing please.

[BamBam]

Thank you for going to bat for what you (and I) believe is right.

Let us know how it goes,
BamBam

[Shalako]

Give 'em heck, sir!

My brother deployed to Seoul last month. The peacenicks are probably against that situation too.


:banghead:

[Blackhawk]

Good luck! Be noticed, and make sure somebody takes your picture so you can send it to your brother!

Believe me, he will GREATLY appreciate it! :D

[spacemanspiff]

i bet a shiny nickel that the anti-war protesters posing as "peace supporters" wind up with at least one instance of violence that they inflict upon war supporters.

[voilsb]

thanks for standing up for what's right. just come back safe, too.

[Azrael256]

Well, I'm back. I walked out of my dorm in my cammies carrying my flag rolled up in my hand. Some jaws hit the ground, some people waved, and some people turned away in disgust... fair enough.

I walked up to the cafeteria, and a number of people I know were there. They didn't seem too surprised. I unfurled my flag and stood on the sidewalk about 25' away facing them. For about the first 30 minutes, I was the only person on our side there. After a few minutes, the organizer of the event walked up and talked to me. He was very polite, and we discussed why I was there. I told him that I don't approve of Bush personally, but that Saddam is an evil opressive dictator who murders his own people and threatens his neighbors and the rest of the world, so we need to take him down. I then mentioned that my brother left for Kuwait a week ago last Sunday. That seemed to stun him. He said "ok" and walked away.

They had all kinds of signs like "Jesus was never pro war" and "Food not bombs." Fortunately there was very little chanting, which is good, because I can't stand chanting. After about 30 minutes, some friends started showing up (we totaled something like 15 at the most, they were something like 40). They brought some flags, and a couple of signs. My personal favorite was "We're going to war, deal with it." When a friend, who is a religion major, showed up, he started in on the girl with the "Jesus was never pro war" sign. That debate was hillarious. She came over and talked to us, and we kept shooting down everything she said. She finally resorted to the "I'm a graduate student with an english degree" argument. So, one of her peacenik friends walked up, and his arguments were equally weak. After they had exhausted what little they had, and we were still shooting away, they stormed off. Shortly after that, I was called "baby killer" for the first time in my life. The organizer of the event (a student, religion major if I'm not mistaken) ran over to me and made it abundantly clear that such comments were not what they were all about. Ok, whatever.

So, after about an hour and a half of occasional exchanges (they didn't win a single argument... who woulda' thought?), the chalk came out. They start drawing peace signs and little anti-war slogans on the ground. The organizer of the event came to talk to me again, and I asked if I could have a piece of chalk. He went and got me one, and I wrote "WOLFPACK! NO SLACK! (brother's unit motto) 317th MAT Co. Love you, Doc." A friend here was 75th Rangers, and he wrote something... I forget what, but we have pictures (I'll post them ASAP). Some of my other friends wrote things too. Somebody wrote "Protect human rights, don't kill them!" and a friend wrote "Protect human rights, stop Iraqi beatings" underneath.

Around 6:00 PM, after several somewhat heated debates (we were quoting bible verses at the "Jesus was never pro war" girl, and she finally said that "the bible can't be taken literally..."), they started collecting their signs to leave. The organizer came up and shook our hands and said that he thought it was good to have both sides represented and asked if we would like to know if they hold another one.

So, if you live in the OK City area, keep an eye on the channel 25 news at 9PM. I saw a camera there with their logo on it, so we might get a spot on the news. I'm the long-haired hippie lookin' guy in cammies with the American flag. I'll post pictures as soon as I get them (shouldn't be long).

[UnknownSailor]

Good on ya. I always enjoy seeing a mindless liberal tap dance. :D

[techmike]

Thanks for standing up for our side...more of us need to follow your example!

[BamBam]

Great report!

It took a lot of character to be the first out there.
YOU made a difference today.

BamBam

[critter]

THANKS AZ!

[twoblink]

On the news, be prepared for the news to not show our side.

My good buddy of 8 years was deployed about 4 months ago; and so where I stand is not even a question.

As for Jesus is not pro war.. As a Christian, that disgusts me. He said "be angry but do not sin.." and if you are anti gun, FINE! "Let those who do not have a sword, sell his tunic and buy one.." Jesus wasn't pro war, he was pro self-defense and pro, what is right, just and moral.

Can I get an Amen in here?

Good job, thanks for going to represent our side.

[Blackhawk]

Good report. Looking forward to the pictures! :D

[spacemanspiff]

a jesus freak says 'the bible cant be taken literally'???

oh thats rich! :D

[Azrael256]

Ok, we got pics... they're simply terrible (evidently the guy taking them is unfamiliar with the focus function of the camera), but you get the idea.

http://www.okimc.org/usermedia/image/203_8.jpg That's us. I'm the one you can't see behind the flag, Sean is the guy with the sign you can't read, and I don't recall who the third person is. It looks like I'm preaching something, but I don't recall.

http://www.okimc.org/usermedia/image/203_6.jpg That's a pic of the "Anti-war" folks. The girl on the left holding up the sign is the one with the now infamous "Jesus" sign. It was two sided. That side said "What does saddam have to do with al quaeda?" I responded directly to her with a nice long list (money, training, weapons, etc.), but as we all know, logic is lost on these people.

http://www.okimc.org/usermedia/image/203_5.jpg Check out the sign third from the left. You may not be able to read it, but it says "Visualize world peace." I don't recall who had the sig line about it being peaceful and serene until the looting started, but I shouted it quite loudly several times :)

http://www.okimc.org/usermedia/image/203_4.jpg These are two professors here. The one on the left is a religion professor. He's a quaker and believes that all war is wrong. He is VERY sincere about that, so I'll respect his opinion. He is one of the few people who genuinely believes what he says.

There are a few more pictures here (http://www.jmbzine.com/) in case anybody wants to see. He has promised a full story (possibly including more photos) tomorrow.

The news report was brief and pointless. They caught the corner of my flag in one shot. They interviewed the organizer who repeated that it was about "solidarity" and how they weren't there to be anti-war... all this while the camera panned across dozens of people with anti-war signs... hmmm... Solidarity, but we don't see a single American flag....

[Gnull]

They had an anti-war "walkout" on my campus last week. My Political Studies Prof (who only shows left extremist material, and has forced two MM movies down my throat) cancelled his class so he could attend the "walk-out" I made it a point to refuse the walk out. I don't care what my fellow students do, but when they cancel one of the classes I PAID out the yin-yang, I get a little upset. I told the whole lot that I don't agree with their protest, and that if the prof was going to be inconsiderate enough to cancel his class just so he could attend the walkout, he should at least offer a substitute to teach the lecture!

But no, apparently substitutions only apply to vegetarians (Our school menu has more Vegetarian cuisine (SP?) then normal) and socialists (they offer teach-ins for every little whiny cause on the planet) but not for people who came there to get their diplomas.

Bah.. The walkout had such entertaining and informative signs, such as one young girl's "Don't kill my children" poster (she did not have any children, nor did she even have any relatives who were in any danger, but that must be besides the point).

Then there was the large "Don't Attack Iraq" Sign in the library window. Too bad some enterprising soul beat me to removing the "No" part of the sign, so it read "War In Iraq" :neener: .

Now the University is "sigh" again threatening to mass walk out when the war starts. Well.. I'm thinking of organizing my own ant-anti-war effort (maybe it would be easier if I just called it pro war) next time there is "walkout".

[Azrael256]

maybe it would be easier if I just called it pro war No, don't call it pro-war. I am not pro-war, and I doubt that you will find a sane individual who is. I want peace. The difference is that you and I know that we achieve peace with the bayonet, not the olive branch.

[Aikibiker]

twoblink,

Amen.

I hate it when the hippies, peaceniks, and antigunners try to corrupt Christianity to their own ends.

Of course I don't like it when anyone does that, but I think those mentioned above will have some extra explaining to do come Judgment Day.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have PRO-war rallies? We could burn Hussein and Bin-Laden in effigy, then sit in a circle and sing patriotic songs.

[Khornet]

the astonishing display of reasonableness on the part of the antiwar types in this case? Debates were heated, but they were debates as often as not; the leader of the protest came over and had calm discussions with the flag-wavers, and when Azrael asked for some chalk, the antiwar leader GAVE him some.

If this kind of exchange happened more often, what a world it would be! I say, good on ya, Azrael, for speakong out, and good on the antiwar organizer for his self-control. Amazing.

[DMK]

Democracy is Awsome

Funny how none of the peace protesters are carrying flags. They just don't get it do they?

[cordex]

Saw a report on 48 minutes or 60 hours or whatever that I thought was a hoot.
A guy went around and interviewed students (college, high school and middle school) that were walking out of class to see how much they really knew.
Some had trouble identifying Saddam Hussein.
There was a young lady, probably about the age of thirteen or so chanting "Make love, not war" ... the narrative mentioned that she had no business doing either.
One person was holding a sign that said "STOP THE KILLING" or something. When the interviewer asked who was being killed, they responded with "Well ... they're bombing Iraq, aren't they?"
No. Not yet.
"Ummm ... Afghanistan? They're killing people in Afghanistan, right?"
Ah.

All in all it was a very interesting report that contrasted the anti-war sit-ins of days gone by with the modern "walk outs" which seemed just "a little too convenient." Lazy kids jumping at any excuse not to go to class, methinks.

Meanwhile, at IUPUI, my New Media teacher (who transferred from an art school) assigned our class to develop a new website for the Paladin Foundation.

[Oleg Volk]

Where I teach, students pay $40 to $100 per class meeting to attend. They'd be a little bit angry if I fail to teach what I promised to teach for their money. Perhaps getting parents or taxpaying strangers cover their costs makes the students less sensitive to not getting much for their money.

As for the conflict between world views: try having an economics class right before a social studies class. I, along with an Israeli kid and one other American, were asking the teacher where all that "free government money" would come from and generally aggravating her.

[Leatherneck]

AZRAEL Good job. Remarkable in the current era that you engaged in (and won) enlightened debate with the other side. Not a thing wrong with that, even this late. Thanks for taking a stand.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Carlos Cabeza]

AMEN ! brother 'blink and Azrael, I salute your bravery and steadfastness !

[rock jock]

Azrael,

You make us, and your brother, proud.

[.45FMJoe]

Excellent work, man!! Keep it up. I love arguing the anti-war people. 99% of them are not anti-war, they are anti-American.

[JoeSF]

Was the rally anti war or Anti US? Where were the people to protest Cambodia, Chechnyia, Afghanistan during the Russian occupation, Algeria and frances adventure, Somalia, Rawanda or Iran Iraq?
What was the toll in human life in these adventures? Why does the world only protest when the US does something? When the Russians put missles in europe aimed at the west nobody said a thing. When Regan responded by installing them too, then there were protests. Ask your fellow students next time.
You did good son . Thank you.

[Gnull]

No, don't call it pro-war. I am not pro-war, and I doubt that you will find a sane individual who is. I want peace. The difference is that you and I know that we achieve peace with the bayonet, not the olive branch.

hmm.. now that I think about it.. thats probably a good idea.. saying I'm pro-war would sound kind of bad. I should have said that I support the freeing of Iraq, or something along those lines.

[Azrael256]

I usually say things like "One of the basic human rights is the right to self-determination. The Iraqi people deserve democracy simply because they are human. I support the establishment of a democratic government in Iraq, even if force is required to do so." I do feel that a non-violent establishment of democracy is better than a violent one, but I have yet to find a way to bring about a peaceful change. Since we can't come up with such a plan, the only recourse is to violently overthrow Hussein.

[Frohickey]

Around 6:00 PM, after several somewhat heated debates (we were quoting bible verses at the "Jesus was never pro war" girl, and she finally said that "the bible can't be taken literally...")

Should have asked if UN Resolution 1441 could be taken literally too. :D

[WyldOne]

Anybody notice
the astonishing display of reasonableness on the part of the antiwar types in this case? Debates were heated, but they were debates as often as not; the leader of the protest came over and had calm discussions with the flag-wavers, and when Azrael asked for some chalk, the antiwar leader GAVE him some.

If this kind of exchange happened more often, what a world it would be! I say, good on ya, Azrael, for speakong out, and good on the antiwar organizer for his self-control. Amazing.

Thank you for pointing this out. Not all of us lefties are evil, horrible people. :)

Az, good on ya for standing up for your beliefs. :)

[ahadams]

Hey AZ - great job, well done! do they know your nom de bbs, or do they just not understand. Two blinks is quoting Luke 22:35-36 I believe which is great to use as a counter protest sign (just the reference, not what it says) because NONE of the counterprotesters will probably be familiar with it. Another counter protest sign that works well is "visualize whirled peas". For some reason that really upsets some new agers. Keep up the good work!