[QuikClik]

I won a Gunbroker auction for a handgun and the seller mailed it to my dealer but it did not have a copy of an FFL which is NOT required by ATF rules. However, the gun is now being held by my Oregon dealer pending investigation by the USPS. The Pennsylvania seller did not have an FFL but when requested, had a local dealer mail a copy of his FFL. Temporarily I am out not only the gun plus the price and shipping. :fire: :cuss:

I did a little research and found the authority in a USPS Bulletin dated coincidentally the same date as the gun was received - 3/6/03 and here it is: http://pe.usps.gov/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm/C024.pdf

Any comments, similar experience or recourse?


p.s. this will also apply to individuals shipping guns to manufactures such as the Ruger revolver retrofit, etc.

[EOD Guy]

There is nothing new about this regulation. It has been around for years. Your seller broke the law. An individual is not allowed to mail a handgun. They may only be mailed between dealers, distrubuters, and manufacturers. The seller would have been ok if he had used UPS or FedEx or had a dealer mail the handgun.

You should have recourse with the seller, since he did not legally deliver the firearm to your FFL.

[mjustice]

I concur with EOD guy. If the seller did not have an FFL he or she is not authorized to use the USPS to mail firearms.

If the seller would have used a contract carrier (FedEx or UPS) this would not have been an issue.

MJ

[simple edit: "he" <> "the"]

[QuikClik]

I have shipped via both USP and FedEx and both require identity of contents and it would have stopped there without documention of an FFL license. I suspect this is Homeland Security related?

[TarpleyG]

Hmmm... I had to return my 22A to S&W because the extractor is having a problem. I shipped it via FedEx Priority overnight and did not indicate anywhere on the shipping label what was in the package nor did the S&W rep indicate that I had to do so. I would expect that there won't be any issues but won't know until the come a knockin' I guess.

GT

[mjustice]

Federal law requires you to notify the contract carrier (Fedex or UPS) that the package contains a firearm. The same law forbids them from marking the box.

MJ

[Zak Smith]

QuikClik,

Did he "mail" it through the US Postal Service, or did he use a private shipper such as Fedex or UPS?

The answer is very important. If it was the USPS, the seller broke the law. If it was the latter, then he should have been OK.

-z

[Zander]

...as only FFL's can ship to each other via that service.

It's a pain but that's the fed.gov for you...

[Standing Wolf]

Federal law requires you to notify the contract carrier (Fedex or UPS) that the package contains a firearm. The same law forbids them from marking the box.

True? I've never told the people at Fed Ex or Airborne what's in the packages. Is it really a federal offense?

[QuikClik]

yes Zak Smith, Zander and Standing Wolf..... thank you for your replies. It was shipped USPS and as Gunbroker.com had no information on mailing of firearms, Auction Arms did and I quote: ""...I'm sure you've heard about UPS's decision to restrict handgun shipments to Next Day Air, an option that costs about quadruple what it costs to ship via ground. We, the staff of Auction Arms, view this as an abuse of a virtual monopoly....
please read it in its entirely at: http://www.auctionarms.com/help/UPSvUSPS.cfm

p.s. for the record, the gun was mailed on 3/3 whereas the USPS publication was dated 3/6.... is that a defensable argument?

[Blackhawk]

for the record, the gun was mailed on 3/3 whereas the USPS publication was dated 3/6.... is that a defensable argument?Neither laws nor regulations are retroactive.

[Zak Smith]

3/3/2003? Sorry, it's been law for a lot longer than that.

-z

[spacemanspiff]

if i was you quikclik, i'd demand the seller reimburse the money until (if) the gun is released from the investigation. his error = he compensates.
least thats how it is in my opinion.

[EOD Guy]

Federal law requires you to notify the contract carrier (Fedex or UPS) that the package contains a firearm. The same law forbids them from marking the box.

That is not true in all cases. Notification is only required if you are shipping to a nonlicensee. If you are shipping to an FFL holder, you are not legally required to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm.

Before you ask, there are cases where a firearm can be shipped to a nonlicensee.

[Tim Burke]

You do realize that the information on the Auction Arms site matches what you are being told here, don't you?

[TarpleyG]

I would think that S&W, by now, would be informing its customers returning firearms that they need to inform the carrier if it was required. Everything else they provided for me to prepare the shipment was very precise. I doubt they would leave something like this out if it were required.

GT

[mjustice]

That is not true in all cases. Notification is only required if you are shipping to a nonlicensee. If you are shipping to an FFL holder, you are not legally required to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm.

Yes, you are correct. I was under the assumption that if either the sender or the recipient was a non-licensee, that notification was required. After you posted your comment, I went back and read 18 USC 922, and it says that you notification is only required by law if you are sending it to a non-licensee.

Thanks for the clarification.

MJ

[AJ Dual]

Now, yes the rules were broken, but.

There was obviously no intent to illegaly transfer a firearm.

Why can't the USPS take the gun back to the shipper, fine him double postage for having to ship it both ways, give him an explanation of the regs, say tisk-tisk, and have him either send it UPS/FedEx, or have an FFL re-send it USPS for him?

But no, that would make sense. :rolleyes:

[M1911]

I have shipped via both USP and FedEx and both require identity of contents and it would have stopped there without documention of an FFL license. I suspect this is Homeland Security related?Nope. Federal law says that only FFLs can send handguns through the USMail. Us regular folks have to send them via common carrier (e.g., UPS, FedEx). This law has been around a very long time and has nothing, nadda, zippo to do with Homeland Security. The law is BS, but it's the law and the seller violated it.

[Standing Wolf]

That is not true in all cases. Notification is only required if you are shipping to a nonlicensee. If you are shipping to an FFL holder, you are not legally required to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm.

Thank you!

[Diesle]

USE UPS TO SHIP!


Diesle

[QuikClik]

The USPS Inspector is not answering his phone or returning calls by my dealer so we forced the issue by leaving a message to either impound, confiscate or.... release the gun to me. No such call has been received so after 2 weeks, we consider the situation resolved. :neener:

[firestar]

How is that resolved? Did you get the gun?

[QuikClik]

Yes, I now have the gun. Between my dealer and I we felt justified as the problem was not on receiving it but only that a non-FFL holder mailed it. Also, understanding that the case is not closed and that I will have to keep all the e-mails and even the box it was mailed in until such time as we are so informed.

A great lesson was learned and I thank all the members for their comments and advice.