March 31, 2005, 07:05 PM
John Paul Or Anyone Who Knows. Can I Use Saeco Sizing Dies In A Star Luber Sizer? Thanks Jim P
Paul "Fitz" Jones
April 1, 2005, 12:57 AM
Jim is an outstandanding competitor in the same arena as I was in my younger days.
I was a Police Firearms Instructor, competitor and I earned so much vacation and overtime I found the time to be the Distributor and bullet designer for the original Saeco 1947-1979 company making the most accurate powder measures, bullet molds and Bullet lubers ever made of Cast Iron and painted black for you to recognize them when they appear at auction. They have a better reputation used than current new ones of another color. I probably have a hundred Saeco luber dies left.
I was also the top Star dealer Tool reconditioner and parts center and still have some Star luber dies in stock. A blue Star luber used also has a better reputation than a current new one of another color.
Sad but true at auctions.
Having and selling both it is like comparing apples and oranges both being fruits. The original Saeco luber has its lube under constant pressure and a bullet is placed in base first and a nose punch identical to the nose of the bullet is used to push the bullet down and past the pressure point thus filling all gaps in the bullet with a soft lube then the bullet is raised up and out. The Saeco was designed mainly for rifle bullets. The Co. owner having been a top rifle competitor before WW2. I came along and convinced him to make pistol bullets for my police competitor market that I was developing and I dug out old Cramer company pistol bullet cherries from the back room whom Saeco had bought the company to start with and had them modified as bevel base bullets for Star Lubers to prove I could sell bullet molds to my police market. The Saeco luber design would fill a bevel base with lube.
After becoming a Star dealer and ordering 30 months of ten reloaders and ten Star lubers a month that convinced Saeco to let me have my way with the bullet designs and I then sold many 4 cavity bullet molds with handles to my customers.
When the Fitz Pistol grip Co was given me with a worldwide customer base since 1919 then my Star and Saeco sales went worldwide.
The Star, Saeco, and all other designs of lubers were designed before world war2 when bullet lubes originally before the turn of the century were tallow or animal fat currently sold in some ethnic markets as lard. That is why old Lyman bullet designs were covered with lube grooved with a nose protruding. After WW1 beeswax, railroad greases , automotive greases and candle wax also known as paraffin or canning wax with many additives were tried and between the wars was when our lubers were designed to use those basically soft materials. The Saeco and other up and down designs were lubed and placed on a tray or in cigarette cans and placed in the fridge to harden the lube before loading. the Star reloader bullet seating punch has an escape vent in the punch to let excess soft lube buildup from changing the bullet seating depth. The Saeco had the advantage over others by having a Gas Check Seating feature.
On the Star luber its advantage was in speed as the bullets were placed in it and went past an impulse of pressure at selected points to fill the lube grooves and not my bevel bases then dropping through to the then term of "Coffee Can" reloads which speeded up reloadeing in my progressive reloaders and less belling being needed it increased case life.
Now both lubers are accurate but for a high volume shooting competitor the only choice is a Star, but for a bench rest Rifle competitor using cast gas check bullets the best bet would be the Saeco.
To simplify my inventory I invented nose first sizing for the Star and bought hundreds of flat nose punches over initial objections from Star but I said that a machinist's time would be better spent catching up on the over two year backlog of ordered Stars than cutting nose punches for every imadinable bullet nose style. the current Magmacompany has invented ways to have the basic Star design much faster for a commercial and high volume competitor. Also hard bullet Bullet lubes are common now requiring heat for them to be useable in any luber.
So which luber is the most accurate is MOOT.
I got carried away on history and only Star dies fit Star and only Saeco dies fit Saeco. Star will fit Magma/Star and Saeco will fit Redding/Saeco. I hear that some of the other companies dies may interchange with each other.
I have flyers on historical bullet lubes I collected from top competitors of the past, lists of the materials tried, making your own lubes , making lube sticks both for the civilian and commercial machines. just PM me.
April 1, 2005, 06:23 AM
JimPGov............No you can't.
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