Question on liquidating a gun collection.


PDA






jsalcedo
April 1, 2005, 03:14 PM
Out of curiosity lets say someone had a couple of hundred guns. This person wanted to get a fair value for their collection without running afoul of the ATF for dealing without a license and other rot.

Could this person use gun auction sites and transfer through FFL to the buyers or would they still be "dealing in guns"

How would someone go about legally and safely liquidating 50k to 70K worth of mostly ordinary firearms?

If you enjoyed reading about "Question on liquidating a gun collection." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
TechBrute
April 1, 2005, 03:27 PM
As long as he didn't buy them all recently or go on a buying spree afterwards, I'm sure it wouldn't raise many flags. They are his property to do with as he will. If this friend is near you, FTF saves a lot of hassles. ;)

Amish_Bill
April 1, 2005, 03:29 PM
Liquidating an estate is not the same as dealing in firearms.

Liquidating is a one time event for the purposes of settling an estate.

Dealing in firearms is an on-going activity done for the purpose of making money.

Liquidating a collection is basically the same thing. It's a one-time event, not a continuous operation.

(sorry - missed the part where it wasn't an estate)

scout26
April 1, 2005, 04:14 PM
Gotta list you can post ???

whm1974
April 1, 2005, 04:16 PM
Liquidating a collection is basically the same thing. It's a one-time event, not a continuous operation.

That would depend on why the person is liquidating his collection. If he is selling his guns due to losing his job, and he has a few hunderd of them; He could live of the procees of the sale(s). However since it's hard to sell that many guns at one time, and he will get more money for them by selling a few at time. The ATF will bust him for selling without a FFL.

I'm not a lawyer but I have heard of people getting busted because they sell more then a few guns a year and/or at gun shows.

-Bill

caseydog
April 1, 2005, 04:23 PM
I think the definition that would be the most important " aquiring for the purpose of reselling" . I think the long term accumulator could liquidate without any problems, but if you were to buy the entire collection and then start selling off a few at a time there would be problems.

Ray

Werewolf
April 1, 2005, 04:33 PM
Turn 'em over to a FFL and sell them on consignment. One of the gunshops here in OKC has about 5% of it's on display guns marked as consignment sales. That should cover a one time liquidation I would think.

whm1974
April 1, 2005, 04:44 PM
I think the definition that would be the most important " aquiring for the purpose of reselling" . I think the long term accumulator could liquidate without any problems, but if you were to buy the entire collection and then start selling off a few at a time there would be problems.

How does the ATF determen if someone is "aquiring for the propose of reselling"? Now I just brought a Rem Nylon 66 "Black Apache" from a friend for $100. Now I was looking for a .22 rifle but not one that is tube fed. I did buy this rifle since I do know it's worth more then what he asked for.

So if I sell(say for $300) this rifle anytime soon I'm breaking the law? I'm not planning on selling this, but if someone did offer me much more then what I pay for it...

I'm sure I'm not the first person to buy a gun he doesn't care for just because the person selling it wanted less then it was worth.

-Bill

Bear Gulch
April 1, 2005, 05:14 PM
For a FFL it has to be in our "private collection for 1 year. A sale prior to that must be run through our bound book and 4473 and NICS if applicable. Actually the FFL has a higher standard to meet than the ordinary gun owner.

Standing Wolf
April 1, 2005, 06:50 PM
How does the ATF determen if someone is "aquiring for the propose of reselling"?

If the B.A.T.F.E. agent likes you, you're okay. If he doesn't like you, you're in deep legal trouble.

Here's the problem: I'm not being sarcastic.

whm1974
April 1, 2005, 06:52 PM
Yes but what about us regular gun owners? The ATf has gone after people who sold too many of thier guns in a short period of time.

People do buy guns as an investment. Guns are a better investment then stocks. So someone who sells a few guns he doesn't want anymore and makes a profit his gulity of "gunrunning"?

-Bill

jsalcedo
April 1, 2005, 08:03 PM
My question was mostly for curiosity and in case some financial crisis
forced me to liquidate.

My gun budget for the last 5 years has been $1000 to $3000 per month.

If I see I gun I like or is interesting I'll buy it. If I end up hating it I'll sell it to my favorite gunshop who gives me 80% blue book or do a FTF at the gunshow.

I've acquired large number of firearms because instead of wasting money on junk I put it into my collection.

I only own 2 guns worth over $1000 because I prefer economy and utility over pomp and flash.

Hopefully, I'll never have to sell but I wanted to know what options were out there just in case.

Fly320s
April 1, 2005, 09:05 PM
If you sell them all in a FTF, who's to know?

Sort of a sales version of shoot, shovel, shut-up.

Sir Aardvark
April 1, 2005, 09:17 PM
There is an exclusion for the "ocassional" and "infrequent" sale of firearms. Pretty much the government didn't want to make it illegal for the average joe to sell a gun here or there, so they left language in the law to allow for the infrequent dealing of firearms. I can't remember where it is now, but in my stacks of paperwork somewhere, I've got something that says selling 4-6 firearms a year is "infrequent"; anything more than that could get you looked at closer by the ATF (if they ever found out to begin with).

A Gun Auction site would give you your best $$$ worth, but lots of work, too.
I've heard that Cabela's buys entire collections, and so do lots of others dealers = less headache, but less $$$ too.

Of course you could always place a post of items for sale here on THR.........

TechBrute
April 1, 2005, 10:35 PM
If you need to unload some in FTF deals, you can post on our DFW group. If enough of us buy from you, we'll all go on a road trip. :D

R.H. Lee
April 1, 2005, 11:24 PM
Turn 'em over to a FFL and sell them on consignment. That's exactly what I would do. Find a high volume FFL with lots of buyers to get max exposure with the least hassle. Pay him a fair percentage and save yourself time and headaches.

Hkmp5sd
April 2, 2005, 01:06 AM
Could this person use gun auction sites and transfer through FFL to the buyers or would they still be "dealing in guns"
If you go through a FFL, there is no problem.

Assuming it took you several years to acquire all of the firearms (if you bought them two months ago, there might be a problem), the reason you are selling the firearms doesn't matter. You are merely liquidating your assets. If you take your 200+ guns to the next gun show and open a table, you might attract some attention, but again, you can document you are getting rid of your collection and not operating a gun business without a license.

whm1974
April 2, 2005, 07:15 AM
There is an exclusion for the "ocassional" and "infrequent" sale of firearms. Pretty much the government didn't want to make it illegal for the average joe to sell a gun here or there, so they left language in the law to allow for the infrequent dealing of firearms. I can't remember where it is now, but in my stacks of paperwork somewhere, I've got something that says selling 4-6 firearms a year is "infrequent"; anything more than that could get you looked at closer by the ATF (if they ever found out to begin with).

I never heard of set number. As far as I know it was up to each agent. There are a lot of collectors who sell or trade far more then 4-6 guns a year and then turn around buy some more guns they have been wanting.

Now personally if I had a large collection and I got into dire fineanceal straits. I would try to sell few at a time, the guns I don't want anymore or my least favorite ones. That way when things get better I still have most of my collection.

-Bill

If you enjoyed reading about "Question on liquidating a gun collection." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!