Another BS question, gun mag.


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griz
April 1, 2005, 05:53 PM
The cover of Combat Handguns mentioned an article about the Hornady XTP handgun bullet. I opened it up and scanned it, didn't read the whole thing. The author told about not having time to get his rifle in action, so he shot a deer at 100 yards with a 115 grain factory 9mm load. He described the performance as good expansion, and recovery on the off shoulder. Then he told about his friend who uses XTP 9mm on elk!

Now I'm cynical enough to read this as an add for XTP's, even though I think they are fine bullets. But isn't it irresponsible to advocate ANY 9mm for elk or 100 yard deer? Maybe somebody else read the whole article and it mentioned facts that explained the stunts a little better?

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Majic
April 1, 2005, 06:09 PM
There are small deer like the Coues deer down around Texas, but the average whitetail at 100 yards with a 9mm.... :scrutiny: . I wonder if this author has ever seen a real live Elk?
Most states don't allow a cartridge like the 9mm for big game hunting. Maybe this is another reason for me not to bother reading that magazine.

PowderBurn
April 1, 2005, 06:29 PM
Not just advertising, but SHAMELESS advertising. I cannot imagine a true outdoorsman attempting a 100-yd shot at any deer with a 9mm. I'd strongly question his judgment if he said he were using a .357. And where is he carrying his rifle that he couldn't get it into action? Field-stripped and in the bottom of his sleeping bag?? More bad judgment.

griz
April 1, 2005, 07:05 PM
I don't remeber who the author was. He said he was in his truck and the rifle was secured, so the pistol was the only loaded gun handy. I also don't know the state, but even in a state with small deer it strikes me as a shot he should have passed up.

The only possible ethical use for a 9 on elk that I can imagine would be a finishing shot.

I think it comes down to what Powderburn said, shameless pandering.

Rockstar
April 1, 2005, 07:10 PM
I believe it's the same guy who's shot 280,000 rounds through his Glock...his name escapes me. :)

Bear Gulch
April 1, 2005, 07:46 PM
I would think that most hunters can unlimber a rifle in the same amount of time it would take to draw and get a good bead for a 100 yd pistol shot.

Sir Aardvark
April 1, 2005, 08:25 PM
And to think.....I just read an article stating why the .338 Winchester Magnum was an excellent Elk cartridge in that it brings a swift, merciful end to the animal, along with great ballistics and long range performance.

All along I could of just used my SIG 226 loaded with XTP's?????.

Boy, what an idiot I am!.

Ky Larry
April 1, 2005, 08:35 PM
Thank goodness for this info. I can now get rid of my .30-06, my 7mm Rem mag, my .243, my .270, ....etc. My .357 mag revolver should be plenty for moose and grizzly bear. :rolleyes:

Third_Rail
April 1, 2005, 08:37 PM
When did Gunkid start writing for that magazine? :neener:

Old Fuff
April 1, 2005, 08:44 PM
You guys are all messed up ... again. :what:

This publication was called COMBAT HANDGUNS ... :eek:

Obviously these two handgunners were "combating" those dear and elk ... :neener:

I might try for a small deer at 100 yards with a .357 Magnum or larger if the circumstances were right, an elk would be another matter ... Although it has been done.

lead bricks
April 1, 2005, 08:58 PM
handloads! getting the most out of the least

RRTX
April 1, 2005, 08:59 PM
He didn't have time to get his rifle into action, but he had time to line up a 100 yard shot with a 9mm pistol :uhoh:

akviper
April 1, 2005, 09:33 PM
I'm with Griz. A 9 or even a 22 can do the kill head shot on a downed wounded elk if you are brave enough to get that close. Maybe it was a new heat seeking super 9mm round none of the rest of us know about.

Jim K
April 1, 2005, 09:55 PM
I don't doubt that a good shot with a good handgun could HIT a deer at 100 yards even without a rest; I think I could do it with my 686 pretty easily. But it would not be sportsmanlike. And to brag about shooting from a road, shooting from a truck? Illegal in most states. And then write about such unsportsmanlike shooting?

My BS meter is wavering in the red zone, but my Yuk! meter is off the scale.

Jim

Standing Wolf
April 1, 2005, 10:22 PM
I believe it's the same guy who's shot 280,000 rounds through his Glock...his name escapes me.

Yeah, well, his name probably escapes him from time to time, too, since he's largely imaginary.

Logan5
April 2, 2005, 12:12 AM
Was it a one handed shot with the 9mm? I'm guessing yes, since obviously he'd need one hand to work the spotlight on the truck, right? ;)

t-maggot
April 2, 2005, 02:13 PM
It was a mule deer, at 100 meters, from his Jeep, out of his G17. He was using Hornady custom XTP 115 gr.
Guess it's time to change my carry ammo. :D :D ;)

Bear Gulch
April 2, 2005, 03:36 PM
I most states it is illegal to shoot FROM the vehicle.

Rockstar
April 2, 2005, 05:20 PM
The imaginary guy's imaginary name is Chuck Taylor, and his imaginary Glock is an imaginary G17 that's been written about in an imaginative manner in many gun rags.

DSRUPTV
April 2, 2005, 05:32 PM
Aww,,, come on guys that's nothing,,, LuckyInKentucky can do it at twice that range.

bytor94
April 2, 2005, 05:52 PM
So this means my .380 should be good for mountain lions, right? ;)

Bear Gulch
April 2, 2005, 06:32 PM
If ya jam it in the eye socket it is!

Rockstar
April 2, 2005, 08:06 PM
Mountain lions are taken with .22l.r.s all the time.

Pumpkinheaver
April 2, 2005, 08:11 PM
I know several people who have killed deer with a 9mm, but NOT at 100 yards. I'm sure I could hit one at 100 with mine but wouldn't for ethical reasons.

Bear Gulch
April 2, 2005, 08:13 PM
Yes, from a safe distance.

Sorry, but I am going to vent. I teach hunter ed here in Idaho (both rifle and bow). We stive as a part of all instruction to have our students strive to be ethical in the field. This Yahoo need his but kicked for promoting these kinds of stunts by bragging like this. Can someone please get me the information on the article so I can read it and contact Fish and game in the appropriate State? Or so I can at least contact the editior and rip him a new one?

I just handed out 12 brand new cerificates and orange hats this afternoon (finished my first class of the year). I want folks to be setting a better image of what hunting is. This weiner certainly is not doing that.

GRB
April 2, 2005, 08:20 PM
About the only situation under which it may be ethical to try to hit a deer with a 9mm out of a pistol from 100 yards would be in a survival scenario. I do not doubt being able to hit a deer at that range with a 9mm, but it would not be first time, every time (that is reserved for Bic pens). SOunds as if the shooter was out of line or just writing a load of bunk.

Bear Gulch is right on when it comes to ethics in sport hunting.

Old Fuff
April 2, 2005, 10:16 PM
I would think that the writer could be reached through the publication's editor:

Combat Handguns.
Harris Publications Inc.
1115 Broadway
New York, NY. 10010

Bear Gulch
April 2, 2005, 11:07 PM
Thanks Fuff,

I'll have to buy the rag so I can write the editor.

entropy
April 3, 2005, 05:54 AM
Here in WI, where it is legal to use 9mm (as long as the bbl. is over 5"), and I am capable of hitting a deer's heart/lung area at 100 yds. with my Kel-Tec SUB2000, even with the added velocity the 16" barrel gives, I would still not even think of hunting with it. Maybe I'd use a 9 for a coup de gras shot, but that's it.
My Dad shot at a buck at 75 yds. with his .357 Trooper MKIII, and hit the doe standing next to him. (It was a quick shot, and his rifle was leaning against the camper, as he'd just got back to camp for lunch.) I tracked them into the woods about 100 yds. where the doe got up about 10 ft. in front of me. I emptied my 742 .30-06 at her, hitting with the last shot, the only one I actually aimed. (The rifle was not up to my shoulder for the first 4 shots. :o [Hey, I was 15 at the time, first year hunting deer. Doe fever? :p ]) My Dad's friend went after her and finished her off, and was pissed at both of us for using up his doe tag. The .357 hit the liver, went in about halfway. My 165 Nosler Partition plowed it's way from her tail to her shoulder, and looked like the ads.
His .270 Rem. Cor-Lokt went right through her skull from 10 yds. :rolleyes:
My Dad and I spent a lot of time at the range before the next season. :o

Old Fuff
April 3, 2005, 10:16 AM
Bear Gulch:

>> I'll have to buy the rag so I can write the editor. <<

Let me save you the time and money:

Combat Handguns:

Editor: Harry Kane

Publiher: Stanley R. Harris
Harris Publications Inc.
1115 Broadway
New York, NY. 10010

www.combathandguns.com

(Sorry, I should have done this in the first place.)

Rockstar
April 3, 2005, 10:46 AM
I agree with Bear Gulch that publishing such a story is a detriment to hunters everywhere, particularly young hunters. Of course, there are a lot of handgunners who could hit a deer @ 100 yds. Making the sound judgment NOT to take such a shot would be the desirable course of action for me. I believe I could make a head shot on a deer @ 50 yds. with a 9mm, but I wouldn't think of taking the shot.

Bear Gulch
April 3, 2005, 11:10 AM
Thanks guys! If your ever in Yellowstone country I spend the 5 bucks I have saved to buy you a cup of coffee!

DigMe
April 3, 2005, 11:24 AM
Combat Handguns is, by far, the most "pulpish" and sensationalist of the gun magazines that I've seen. Still though, I'll sometimes leaf through it in the store.

brad cook

Old Fuff
April 3, 2005, 06:10 PM
Rockstar hit the nail on the head. It's not only a case of having the right handgun and the skill to use it ...

It's having the judgment to know when not too. :scrutiny:

GunnyBob
April 3, 2005, 06:34 PM
Well...to me it's all BS until Marshall arrives to declare it a One-Shot-Stop.

444
April 4, 2005, 12:29 AM
I have told both stories on here before, but.... I have shot a mule deer with a 9mm handgun. Although it was around 10 yards away, running, but already mortally wounded by a .30-06. I have also shot a coyote at slightly over 100 yards with a 9mm handgun (ranged by a laser rangefinder).
Both shots were taken using handloads with 147 grain Hornady XTP bullets.

The deer was hit twice. Neither round penetrated to the vitals of the deer although admittedly, they were both raking shots.
And, with the coyote, the bullet did not exit the animal.
Based on these two experiences I have a hard time believing that a 115 grain, 9mm bullet, fired from a handgun, would do in a mule deer at 100 yards. Maybe not even half that distance.

Chawbaccer
April 4, 2005, 08:12 AM
Is there any possibility that that was the April first issue?

derori
May 2, 2005, 08:06 PM
The guy who shot the deer with the 9mm is Chuck Taylor, and he is one of the few gun writers who actually has the right to talk about things, having been in combat and having actually used a handgun to kill a few people. He is also one of the more accurate marksmen around.

nico
May 2, 2005, 08:32 PM
This story reminds me of the guy on World of Beretta a couple months ago who shot a deer up a hill with a .300 win mag from about 100 yards away. You could see air under its body and the guide still commented on how great a shot it was.

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