Iraqi chemical weapon drone is made of balsa wood and duct tape


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SkunkApe
March 13, 2003, 12:49 AM
Wednesday March 12, 2003 12:00 PM


AL-TAJI, Iraq (AP) - A remotely piloted aircraft that the United States has warned could spread chemical weapons appears to be made of balsa wood and duct tape, with two small propellors attached to what look like the engines of a weed whacker.


full article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2474171,00.html

Yep, looks like you got 'im this time, boys. Better drop a bomb on him afore he flies that killer drone to your house.

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SquirrelNuts
March 13, 2003, 02:58 AM
Hummm...duct tape...well, now if you buy duct tape alone are you a terrorist, or do you have to buy plastic sheeting with it too?

I knew those middle eastern men in Michael's craft store the other day were up to no good. They were leaving towards Home Depot too!

-SquirrelNuts

Wildalaska
March 13, 2003, 04:04 AM
Iraqi chemical weapon drone is made of balsa wood and duct tape......


Like my truck :neener:

Apple a Day
March 13, 2003, 06:31 AM
Sounds like one of our old Olympics of the Mind projects. :evil:

243_shooter
March 13, 2003, 06:51 AM
model aircraft commonly use balsa wood and 'weed eater' style motors..

many cheap 'auto-pilot' systems are available to keep model aircraft straight and level..

let's see.. put in 30 minutes fuel.. start 'er up.. put in 25 #'s of nastyness..

sounds like a down and dirty CHEAP delivery system.

I can only guess that accuracy / reliability would be terrible _but_ if you can build 'em for $1000......

Leo

ruger357
March 13, 2003, 06:55 AM
I agree, the scary thing is that they work.

mete
March 13, 2003, 07:13 AM
Some modern aircraft are made with plastic foam covered with fiber composites ( sailplanes as I remember and perhaps our drones) ,natures foam is balsa wood and duct tape works fine as a fiber composite.

El Tejon
March 13, 2003, 07:16 AM
They work, just ask the little neighborhood brats crashed into the carriage house of the Fashionable Bachelor Pad last summer! Little brats.:mad:

243_shooter
March 13, 2003, 07:17 AM
The materials are readily available from your local hobbyshop to build a composite drone..

I'd even go so far as to say they could build a 'predator' type vehicle (minus the sidewinders) for less than the price of a compact car..

The toughest part would be the guidance system, but with a gps kit hooked to a palm pilot and a bit of programming.. Stretching the range out to 100 miles would be easily possible..

Is the duct-tape / balsa super weapon such a beast? I doubt it.. just bringing up the point that it's very possible.

Leo

PS I wonder if it has a french guidance system :what:

Kharn
March 13, 2003, 08:19 AM
Almost every RC aircraft is made from Balsa wood and will have some duct tape on it after some dufus crash-lands it. Of course, you'll never be told that on CNN...

Kharn

buzz_knox
March 13, 2003, 08:29 AM
Balsa wood and duct tape, huh? So, you're saying that these weapons are cheap enough to be mass-produced (which you would need for a successful attack of this nature), and designed from materials naturally invisible to radar?

You didn't think this one through too far before deciding to use it to attack the Iraq policy did you?

SkunkApe
March 13, 2003, 08:39 AM
I thought it through far enough to see it for what it is; another fraudulent attempt by the war mongers to justify their goal.

If this thing can exceed the 93 mile limit, I'll eat my hat. Its guided by eye from the ground, for goodness sake. If that contraption is reason enough to start a war, you'd better bomb me, too. I could build one in my garage this weekend.

"Watch out..." said the man in the aircraft carrier overlooking his fleet of jet fighters, "...He's got a balsa wood weed whacker killer drone."

Unisaw
March 13, 2003, 08:52 AM
Saddam is a master at manipulating the media and the media are very good at accepting as the gospel truth everything that tyrants tell them. So, could it just be possible that Saddam rolled out a pathetic prototype from years past for the media's consumption?

Marko Kloos
March 13, 2003, 09:02 AM
I kinda have to agree with the "so what?" crowd on this one. A UAV of that size and weight would be next to useless for NBC weapons delivery. I do know a little bit about the subject, having been the company NBC training NCO in my Army unit.

That thing can't carry a meaningful payload, and it lacks the systems to release that payload in a precise manner. Chemical and biological agents are a very iffy proposition even when delivered with precision, and in sufficient quantities. Such agents get dispersed to ineffective concentrations if they're delivered too high, or in an unfavorable concentration. Most NBC agents are not persistent enough to stick around for very long. Biological and chemical agents are mostly psychological weapons, as their battlefield presence scares the opponents and makes them don protective gear, which hinders their effectiveness and mobility.

Anything you can strap to a balsawood oversized RC aircraft like that is not very likely to constitute a threat. It lacks capacity or any sort of guidance system for accurate target delivery. It's a bit of a stretch to make those things into anything more than what they are...crude Iraqi attempts to overcome their aversion to losing valuable aircraft or pilots to the Allied air forces.

Sodbuster
March 13, 2003, 09:10 AM
Iraqi chemical weapon drone is made of balsa wood and duct tape......Like my truck
You mean there is no wildbalingwireholdingtrucktogetherinalaska :D

buzz_knox
March 13, 2003, 09:11 AM
The drone's declared intent was for recon and EW jamming, correct? Now, in today's battlefield, you don't get jamming systems that are effective with small equipment. So, that takes care of the payload question. The delivery system issue is a red herring, as such systems are fairly easy to install. And command/control systems are easy to retrofit. GPS and a basic autopilot, anyone? But then again, the inspectors didn't bother to test it so who knows what the actual command system is.

Basically, in order to call this a warmonger's hoax, you have to take Saddam's word 100% as to the drone's capabilities. And if you think he's trustworthy, then no evidence will ever convince you otherwise.

Preacherman
March 13, 2003, 09:25 AM
Skunkape, one thing you're perhaps not thinking about - who says that what the Iraqis showed the press is the drone that the Blix report mentioned? Reading of something constructed of balsa wood and tape, I surmise that this could be roughly assembled like this in only a few hours - just enough time to have something to show the press, instead of the real thing.

We have only the Iraqi's word (that this is the drone Blix referred to) to go on... and judging by their past record of honesty, integrity and upright conduct, I think that if anyone in Saddam's government told me that Monday was the day after Sunday, I would immediately double-check this against the nearest calendar - and if the calendar confirmed it, I'd distrust the calendar!

seeker_two
March 13, 2003, 10:32 AM
Hmmm...

Weapon made of cheap materials & questionable workmanship, but capable of causing great harm to both the enemy & yourself...

I didn't know Bryco built airplanes...:scrutiny:

Pappy John
March 13, 2003, 10:34 AM
Looks harmless to you UNTIL you see it over YOUR head!

buzz_knox
March 13, 2003, 10:35 AM
It just dawned on me why balsa wood and duct tape seemed so familiar. This is often how initial prototypes or concept models are put together, no? Iraq is showing off only one drone, and hasn't tested it yet. This thing is a mockup of the real bird, not the actual drone itself.

Ebbtide
March 13, 2003, 11:10 AM
You have to "give it up" to those Iraqis.

We build the "Mother of all Bombs" at who knows what cost, they build a 500.00 model plane to deliver the WMD.

"It just made of wood, duct tape, and a weed-wacker motor"

"It is just a simple box cutter, I'm a stock boy"

Let's just off this clown and get it over with already.

SkunkApe
March 13, 2003, 11:56 AM
Preacherman,

If we're talking about who's trustworthy here, let me ask a few questions:

1) Who fabricated the "Iraqis are taking babies of of the respirators" lie during the Kuwait invasion?

2)Who fabricated the "Iraqis are intentionally dumping oil into the gulf to spoil the environment" story, after their own planes accidently destroyed the oceanfront pipelines?

3) Ambassador April Glaspie met with Saddam Hussein several days prior to the Kuwait invasion, and granted her country's permission for Iraq to invade. From what country is Glaspie?

4)Which country financially supported Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war, and now wants to remove him?


The first casualty of war is truth (can't remember who said that).

There's a reason that most of the world is against us on this one. Logic and reason are on one side, blind patriotism is on the other.

buzz_knox
March 13, 2003, 12:07 PM
1) Who fabricated the "Iraqis are taking babies of of the respirators" lie during the Kuwait invasion?

2)Who fabricated the "Iraqis are intentionally dumping oil into the gulf to spoil the environment" story, after their own planes accidently destroyed the oceanfront pipelines?

3) Ambassador April Glaspie met with Saddam Hussein several days prior to the Kuwait invasion, and granted her country's permission for Iraq to invade. From what country is Glaspie?

4)Which country financially supported Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war, and now wants to remove him?


1. The Kuwaitis did. Sorry.

2. Are you talking about the strike against the pipeline carried out by FB-111s that cut off the flow? Or are you talking about the destruction of pipelines by

3. Absolute BS. When asked about the oil dispute between the two, she stated that it was between them to resolve. The crap you're dishing comes straight from Saddam.

4. Who supported him? Hmm. The Israelis, the US, the Russians, the French . . . pretty much everyone. But since he invaded an American ally, only the French, Russians and Chinese have done so.

Yohan
March 13, 2003, 12:10 PM
I found some information about who said that quote.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-21510,00.html

[In 1918 US Senator Hiram Warren Johnson is purported to have said: The first casualty when war comes is truth. However, this was not recorded. In 1928 Arthur Ponsonby's wrote: The 'When war is declared, truth is the first casualty'. (Falsehood in Wartime) Samuel Johnson seems to have had the first word: 'Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages.' (from The Idler, 1758) ]

Skunkape- your name rhymes with grape, and escape- and also- cape. Keep that in mind.

Ebbtide
March 13, 2003, 12:36 PM
...and crape, a FRENCH pastry:D

Missouri Mule
March 13, 2003, 12:46 PM
Duct tape and balsa? Hmmm!

If it used a rubber band to power the propeller it would be like the little toys I played with as a kid. :neener:


If this is true it just goes to show us how desperate those sickos really are. Either that or our B1's & B2's are already obsolete.:barf:

4v50 Gary
March 13, 2003, 12:48 PM
Add duct tape to the State Department's list of items to be scrutinized for export. Homeowners and any automobile owner should get a DTL (Duct Tape License) too. So long as the Feds don't ask us to maintain a Duct Tape Log showing the dispensing of duct tape, we won't object.;)

Ledbetter
March 13, 2003, 01:46 PM
1. Underestimating the power of duct tape.
2. Assuming that Hussein's statements contain any truth at all.

waterdog
March 14, 2003, 10:12 AM
This is getting ridiculous, a BALSA WOOD WMD...come on.

Weed whacker engines... lots of noise, and maybe some smoke, and sure as a hell heat signature.

This thing will fly at what... maybe Mach (.10)

Gee... with all that state of the art technology, we'll have to have at least... 3 soldiers using M4 (carbines) to knock it down.

waterdog

Kharn
March 14, 2003, 10:14 AM
Waterdog: Shooting the drone down would probably disperse its cargo over the immediate area, not a good situation for those nearby.

Kharn

redneck
March 14, 2003, 01:48 PM
Scud missiles are innaccurate too. Thats why they like to put chemical warheads on em instead of trying to use conventional explosives on pinpoint targets.
This thing doesn't have to be capable of killing 1000 people, in the absolute target area, to be a threat. He doesn't seem to care a whole lot about his own people so he probably isn't above just letting it fly and hoping he gets lucky.

It doesn't have to have a guidance system. Designed right it will just keep on gliding along. The farm I work for had a guy show up once that had been flying a model plane nearby and let it get out of range. He wanted to go look in a field for it. It had continued flying until it ran out of fuel, and then glided in for a crash landing.

waterdog
March 14, 2003, 04:43 PM
Assuming it has a cargo.

Really...this has got to be war propaganda.

As each day passes, things are becoming more and more cartoonish.

waterdog

Wildalaska
March 14, 2003, 05:26 PM
You mean there is no wildbalingwireholdingtrucktogetherinalaska

Baling wire isnt as durable as Duct tape :D

Wild:neener:Alaska

Gewehr98
March 14, 2003, 10:45 PM
It wouldn't have to be a good delivery system. The simple fact that it carried the payload has value all out of proportion to the effectiveness of the weapon onboard. We'd use all sorts of expensive resources to try and find the darned things, pulling those resources away from other tasks in execution of the war. Just like decoy inflatable tanks and jets in revetments, they still manage to draw a bomb or two, and that's ordnance that can't be used elsewhere.

SkunkApe, you mean to tell me those satellite images of trenches outside Baghdad that are filled with oil are just super-dooper Slip-n-Slides for the neighborhood kids? Who woulda thunk? :scrutiny:

Destructo6
March 15, 2003, 12:17 AM
The guidance system could be as simple as an off-the-shelf RC gyro and failsafe, so that when it loses the transmitter's signal, it flies straight and level. Put some gas in it, take off as normal, then switch off the transmitter and go home.

Cheap and pretty lousy, but if you only have a 1% success rate, you're still not risking much.

SkunkApe
March 15, 2003, 01:15 AM
"SkunkApe, you mean to tell me those satellite images of trenches outside Baghdad that are filled with oil are just super-dooper Slip-n-Slides for the neighborhood kids? Who woulda thunk?" - Gewehr98

Gewehr98, would those satellite images be anything like those that purported to show 600,000 Iraqi troops amassed on the Saudi border just before the U.S. attacked during the gulf war?

Our goverment (the United States) has such a history of lying to the public, its hard to tell what's true and what's not. My take on things:

1) The U.S. supported Iraq and Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war. - True.

2) Ambassador April Glaspie informed Iraq that the U.S. would not intervene in Iraq's territory dispute with Kuwait in 1990. - True, the text of the conversation is readily available.

3) The U.S. claimed they had satellite photos immediately prior to the gulf war showing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi troops massed on the Saudi Arabian border, prepared to invade. This was used as justification to attack Iraq. They got caught in the lie when the Russians RELEASED their own satellite photos, showing almost no troops on the border. - True.

4) Israel has considerable influence over U.S. politics in the Middle East. - Depends on how you define "considerable". Its a fact we give them tremendous amounts of money.

5) The Kuwaitis hired a U.S. PR firm to gain U.S. support for an attack on Iraq in 1990. This firm fabricated the "Iraqis take babies off of respirators" story. U.S. goverment officials collabarated on this story. -True, beyond any doubt.

6) In an effort to further villify the Iraqs, the U.S claimed Iraq deliberately released oil into the gulf on 01/24/91. The cause of the oil spill was later revealed to have been caused by a U.S. air attack on two oil tankers. - True.

7) I heard on the radio that Saddam Hussein tortures his Olympic athletes if they don't win. - True (Can you believe this crap? What happened, are there no more babies to take off of respirators?)

8) I saw on televison a diabolical torture device that Hussein uses to drip acid on his enemies. - True. I saw it on TV, so it must be true.

9) President Bush claimed that he had the "smoking gun" that necessitates the immediate attack on Iraq. This immenent threat was allegedly a fleet of unmanned drones that can drop weapons of mass destruction on the United States and her allies. This terrible weapon has now been revealed to be some piece of junk weedwhacker contraption that I could build in my gagrage this weekend. - True.

10) I think the baby killer story, the oil pollution story, the Olympic athlete story, and the killer drone from outer space story are all U.S. propoganda. -True.

11) Most of the folks on this forum are too blinded by patriotism (or perhaps "nationalism") to see the truth of this matter. Either that, or they're a bunch of over-testosteroned young males with a blood lust for foreigners. - True

SkunkApe
March 15, 2003, 01:24 AM
Please disregard the above post. I changed my mind. I want to kill. I said "kill". Especially foreigners. Especially foreigners that live somewhere near the other foreigners that might have had something to do with the world trade center attack. I want to kill foreigners now. I'm a good U.S. citizen. Please forgive me and don't lock my away without charges in a crappy jail in some far-away U.S. territory without legal representation.

ahadams
March 15, 2003, 01:30 AM
excuse me, but who besides the left wing oriented so-called mainstream media actually believe anything the iraqis say? I'd bet you dollars to donuts that any theater stage crew could knock together a mock up like that in an afternoon, given motivation and whatever their beverage of choice was at the time.

Now folks, go back and look at the WWII German V-1. It was a pulse jet engine (in other words the not- ready-for-primetime-ancestor of the ramjet enging) that was controled by a combination of simple timing gears and the fact that it ran out of fuel at it's target.

Now tell me how terribly difficult delivering a payload can be?

.45FMJoe
March 16, 2003, 01:03 AM
What I find humorous is Skunkape's believing everything he hears that contradicts what his government is saying. He just wants to feel "elite" and special in his own little insignificant world. But, Skunkape, you are right....these pictures are false and these children were not kiled by Hussein in Halabja, they were killed by an elite team of US Navy Seals cleverly disguised as Iraqi soldiers. Saddam is still overjoyed :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

pictures of dead children removed by moderator

AR-10
March 16, 2003, 07:04 AM
I am way past wanting or needing any justification for this coming war. It is time to prosecute it.

Debate regarding who is twisting the truth the most is unimportant at this point.

Terrorists will attack us if we do.
They will attack us if we don't.

Might as well thin their numbers and give them a reason to fear us. They hate us already. That is not going to change.

Dave Bean
March 16, 2003, 09:06 AM
In high school, I made a bridge the approx. size of a quart of milk. Sent it to a contest where they add weight until the bridge collapses. I think the key measure was how much your bridge weighted versus how much it supported before collapse.

The sponsor: Brookhaven National Lab. My bridge weight: 10 ounces. It supported approx 15 POUNDS before collapse. Look again 10 ounces:15 POUNDS. And I still came in at the bottom 1/3 of the entire contest. I looked at the overall results, I was shocked. The guy who won had an unbelievable ratio.

Lesson learned:

1. never underestimate the strength of balsa wood. if engineered correctly, it can be really strong.

2. never underestimate the strength of duct tape...nuff said.

3. never underestimate of balsa wood and duct tape...combined.

Dave Bean

clem
March 16, 2003, 10:13 AM
Here is another "DRONE" that a peaceful country developed and used, 60 years ago.


http://www.betatechschools.com/fighterfactory/buzzbomb.html

Don Gwinn
March 16, 2003, 11:06 AM
1. As Lendringser tried to point out, using something like this to deliver BC weapons would be next to impossible.

2. As others have pointed out, we have no real reason to believe anything Hussein says.

3. As still others have pointed out, our government is not exactly known for its truthfulness, either.

4. Skunkape, you're pointing out some things that should be considered, but your contention that we gave Hussein permission to invade is silly. You're right, that conversation is on record, and it's clear that she said no such thing. She told him that we had no position on the dispute. That clearly means that we were saying we wanted to remain neutral and not favor either side. It cannot be construed to mean "we will not oppose you even if you settle the question by invading Kuwait and annexing it" unless one has a monstrous axe to grind.

Gary H
March 16, 2003, 11:16 AM
Two weeks from now we will see if it really was duct tape, or just plain ole packing tape. This thing is about to come to an end.

.45FMJoe
March 16, 2003, 11:17 AM
What the hell? Why were the pictures of dead children removed? It's people like Skunkape who wold like to believe that never happened. He probably think Hitler was just misunderstood as well. If you don't learn from the past, you are bound to repeat it. Are you too afraid of the pictures? ***?:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

SkunkApe
March 16, 2003, 12:59 PM
Don Gwinn, I reread the transcript of the Hussien Glaspie meeting.

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/the_new_world_order/glaspie.html

QUOTE -
Transcript of Meeting Between Iraqi President, Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie. - July 25, 1990

(Eight days before the August 2, 1990 Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait)

July 25, 1990 - Presidential Palace - Baghdad

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie -

ÒI have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to KuwaitÕs borders?Ó

Saddam Hussein -

ÒAs you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.Ó

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie -

ÒWhat solutions would be acceptable?Ó

Saddam Hussein -

ÒIf we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in SaddamÕs view, including Kuwait) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United StatesÕ opinion on this?Ó

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie -

ÒWe have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960Õs, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.Ó (Saddam smiles)

On August 2, 1990 four days later, SaddamÕs massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait.
-END QUOTE

http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/gulf_war.html


QUOTE-
Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was stunned by the vehement response. He had expected a casual reaction from the West to his occupation of Kuwait, based on what U.S. ambassador April Glaspie had told him a week earlier, when she said, "We have no opinions on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

Angry journalists confronted Glaspie, clutching copies of the transcript of her session with Saddam, accusing her of giving him carte blanche to take over Kuwait. At one of these sessions a rattled Glaspie replied, "I didn't think . . . the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait."

Glaspie soon was removed from her post.
-END QUOTE

Its pretty convincing to me. Remember, Hussein had been financially-supported and militarily-equipped for years by the United States. Now their ambassador was telling him the U.S. had "no opinion on your arab-arab conflicts", and that "the Kuwait issue is not assosciated with America".

I'd like to hear your interpretation.

Gary H
March 16, 2003, 01:23 PM
SkunkApe:

Its pretty convincing to me. Remember, Hussein had been financially-supported and militarily-equipped for years by the United States. Now their ambassador was telling him the U.S. had "no opinion on your arab-arab conflicts", and that "the Kuwait issue is not assosciated with America".

Take a look at this post:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13660&highlight=billion

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