Medal of Honor winner.


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280PLUS
April 4, 2005, 10:50 AM
Mods can move this if it belongs elsewhere.

From what I'm hearing this is the first MOH recipient in Iraq.

Here is the link:

http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/

Thanx to ALL our active military

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Lone Star
April 4, 2005, 11:19 AM
I just saw his widow, Birgit, interviewed on the CBS Morning News. The Oriental newswoman appeared ill at ease in speaking to her, but Mrs. Smith was composed and gracious. She said that her husband was a shy man, who would be overwhelmed by the honor shown him. But a member of his unit said that Smith definitely deserved the Medal of Honor, which President Bush will present to the Smith family today at the White House.

I saw nothing on this on other networks, but Hanoi Jane Fonda was on one of them. The newswoman was much more at ease with her.Fonda and the mass media are largely peas of a pod...

Personally, I felt insulted that the infamous American Traitor would be interviewed on the day when a fallen hero is posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor, let alone that NBC (I think it was) would present Fonda to the nation instead of Mrs. Smith.

Lone Star

Leatherneck
April 4, 2005, 12:03 PM
Don't forget, Lonestar, that Hanoi Jane is "one of them." Traitors.

TC

Lone Star
April 4, 2005, 12:20 PM
Leatherneck-

Yes, Marine. That's what I said. Guess that you're just agreeing...which is cool with me! :D

Lone Star

DragonFire
April 4, 2005, 12:28 PM
I saw a short piece on this last night, I on Fox News I think. There was maybe 2 sentences on what he did to deserve the MOH, with the rest mostly concentrating on him having died and being missed by his family.

If I hadn't had heard his story before, I think the report would have come across as "another death in an unjust war" piece. It was nothing like what I think a MOH winner deserves.

I don't think there's a news organization or journalist that I respect, much less believe anymore.

Newguy1
April 4, 2005, 01:49 PM
Just a small pet peeve, you don't "win" a MOH. It is earned. I know that sound silly and nit picking, but as a REMF, I have great respect for any warrior who earns the MOH.

Ala Dan
April 4, 2005, 02:01 PM
Please refer to those brave men (and women) who have received, or may
receive this nations highest award for bravery as Medal Of Honor Recipients; instead to Medal Of Honor Winners. Being awarded the MOH is not a contest piting this countrys service men (and women) against each
other in a time of battle. Thank you all in advance, respectfully

buzz_knox
April 4, 2005, 02:20 PM
How about Medal of Honor Earners? When I think of recipients, I think of those receiving a service that they may or may not have earned, as opposed to being given. While the term might be correct, I would favor one that demonstrates that those who have received the Medal of Honor literally earned it with their blood.

DragonFire
April 4, 2005, 02:30 PM
While I meant no disrespect to anyone who may have received the MOH or those even considered for it, not everyone who earned one received one, and from what I have read there have been at least a couple of recipients who may not have really earned it.

As in many things in life, it may be more of a matter of politics and the ability to gather support than it is a matter of just earning the medal. The people in our armed services may not be competing with each other "in time of battle" but since our Congress has decided that too many medals have been awarded/earned/recieved recently, they are in fact competing with each other when it comes down to who receives one and who doesn't.

Also, not that it makes it right, but in the past, I have seen many many instances of them being referred to as "winners". You'll have to forgive or ignore me if I'm not always up to date on what's the current politically-correctness is.

Sean Smith
April 4, 2005, 02:55 PM
there have been at least a couple of recipients who may not have really earned it.

Douglas MacArthur comes to mind. Good ol' Dugout Doug... :barf:

That said, the vast preponderance of MOH recipients earned their decorations several times over.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

Interestingly enough, the proportion of posthumous MOH recipients has been much higher in the 20th century than the 19th. The overall % of posthumous MOH recipients is 18%, but in WWII, Korea and Vietnam they were all over 50% posthumous, and all of the MOH since then have been posthumous IIRC. So it is hard to argue that it has been devalued over the years, which can't be said of many other military decorations.

280PLUS
April 4, 2005, 03:38 PM
"Please refer to those brave men (and women) who have received, or may
receive this nations highest award for bravery as Medal Of Honor Recipients"

Duly noted with apologies. No disrespect intended. :o

Is it possible for a Mod to change the word winner to recipient in my title? I tried and it won't work for me.

20cows
April 4, 2005, 03:51 PM
In the ballpark of ten years ago,I saw a man driving down the highway between Midland and Lubbock, Texas with personalized liscense plates that identified him as a CMOH recepient. Judging by this fellow's apparent age, it would have had to have been from Desert Storm.

It was an official Texas plate.

rwc
April 4, 2005, 03:59 PM
For good information go to:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm
and
http://www.cmohs.org/

The standards have changed quite a bit. I read some of the documentation from the medals issued in the 19th century. Some damn fine tales there of brave men doing what they had to; and some that seem perhaps a bit less so.

red_devil1469
April 4, 2005, 04:12 PM
"In the ballpark of ten years ago,I saw a man driving down the highway between Midland and Lubbock, Texas with personalized liscense plates that identified him as a CMOH recepient. Judging by this fellow's apparent age, it would have had to have been from Desert Storm.
It was an official Texas plate."

He must have been driving someone else's car.There where no MOH recipients from Desert Storm.
Are you sure its wasnt a Silver or Bronze Star plate?

Werewolf
April 4, 2005, 04:24 PM
^^^^^^^ Great link to MOH Citations.

I read all the WWI citations and about 1/2 the ones from WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

Some interesting trends were noticed by me (my perceptions).

WWI - vast majority of citations awarded for single handedly taking out machine gun nests and capturing a lot of germans. It seems Alvin York wasn't the only one to do that and IMO his action didn't compare to those of many, many others who did essentially the same thing under worse conditions.

WWII - same as WWI but now quite a few citations issued for jumping on grenades. The big downer for me was the MOH's earned by General Officers. Seemed to me they just got them for doing what they were paid to do.

Korea - many, many citations issued for jumping on grenades. MOH citations begin to be awarded for defensive vice offensive actions.

Vietnam - like Korea but it seemed to me like most citations were for defensive action - a complete reversal from WWI and WWII where most citations were for aggressive offensive action.

When I've got time I may go read the Civil War citations to see what it took to get the MOH back then.

Sean Smith
April 4, 2005, 04:39 PM
It seems Alvin York wasn't the only one to do that and IMO his action didn't compare to those of many, many others who did essentially the same thing under worse conditions.

You need to be REALLY careful about judging that sort of thing. How well the citations "read" is a function of the wordsmithing skills of the officer that wrote the citation... not necessarily what happened.

Vietnam - like Korea but it seemed to me like most citations were for defensive action - a complete reversal from WWI and WWII where most citations were for aggressive offensive action.

More of them were posthumous in Vietnam than in either of the world wars, too. Hard to reconcile that with a "wussification" of the MOH. ;)

buzz_knox
April 4, 2005, 04:42 PM
Weren't the citations for Shugart and Gordon reversed, so that Gordon was credited with Shugart's actions and vice versa? This doesn't detract from their actions or worthiness, just shows that the citations may not always reflect what happened exactly.

MarkDido
April 4, 2005, 05:55 PM
I hope the family doesn't plan on transporting their son's Medal of Honor back on an airliner. The TSA will relieve them of it because it looks like a "ninja throwing star" like they did to some poor old man a few years back.

BryanP
April 4, 2005, 07:10 PM
If you want to hear two excellent, relatively in-depth stories about it NPR did a piece on Morning Edition this morning and another on All Things Considered this afternoon. Audio for the first one is available now:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4572357

The entry for this afternoon's story is in place but the audio won't be available online until after 7:30pm EDT tonight. (after the story has aired on the west coast)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4575892

Both stories go in to detail as to the events surrounding his actions, including interviews with his fellow soldiers. Each of them is different enough that it's worth listening to both.

Lone Star
April 4, 2005, 07:37 PM
Mark Dido-

That "poor old man"
was the late Maj. Gen. Joe Foss, who won the Medal of Honor as a Marine aviator over Guadacanal. He was cited for several days of gallant action, at one point taking on a large number of Zero fighters in his F-4F Wildcat.

He was a former President of the National Rifle Association, too.

Although originally a Marine, he later transferred to the Air National Guard, and it was in this capacity that he eventually became a general officer.

Texas Star

OH25shooter
April 5, 2005, 07:37 PM
As a member of the local military museum, I attended a dinner that was in honor of military personel. One of the guest of honor was a soldier (corporal) who was awarded the MOH in Korea. As the guest speaker, an Army general introduced him, the general turned towards him and saluted. The MOH recipient returned the salute. I was told ALL military officers regardless of rank will salute any one awarded the MOH, and he in turn will return the salute. I think that's great. The state of Ohio just recently issued him a personalized MOH license plate.

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